bobbryan2

12-11-2008, 02:24 AM

Alright, just for Gunga... since i wanted to see the numbers he was going to respond with.

The original question was whether or not Rangers did more damage than Barbarians on non-critical hits. And by extension, whether Rangers far outDPSed any creature that had 100% fortification.

We'll look at 2 characters, both dwarf, both using the same weapons.

Barbarian's strength:

18 + 6 (item) + 4 (level ups) + 10 (Rage + enhancements) + 2 (tome) = 40 strength (Yes, I realize we can get it higher... but not through any methods that aren't available to both classes... so this will suffice)

Ranger's strength:

18 + 6 (item) + 4 (level ups) + 2 (tome) + 2 (Ram's Might) = 32 Strength

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So now.. we have the barbarian doing:

15 damage with his mainhand in bonus strength damage, and 7 damage with his offhand. Now.. the barbarian also gets bonuses from Barbarian power attack. I can't for the life of me remember if they get barbarian power attack IV, so we'll just call it +3 now.

18 main/ 10 off

The Ranger on the other hand is doing 11 damage with his main hand and 5 damage with his offhand.

But wait.. the ranger now gets damage bonuses too. Favored enemy bonus is +12, and Ram's Might is +3.

So now the final numbers look like:

26 main/ 20 off

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A final difference of 8 damage on the main hand, and 10 on the offhand in the Ranger's Favor.

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Of course... the interesting thing will be if a barbarian can beat that if he goes into full out Frenzied Berserker, while even damaging himself. Great Frenzy and Frenzy stacked together will net 6 strength, and 6d6 extra damage via vicious.

The strength gives a bonus of +3 str to main hand, +2 to offhand, and then 21 to each hand with the vicious effects. Giving the barbarian 42 damage bonus with mainhand and 33 with the offhand. Which would seem to give a massive bonus to the barbarian.

But it's only fair to give the Rangers their prestige enhancement, if the 18 lvl barbarian is going to count all 3 tiers of his. You can't simply multiply these numbers by 1.1 to get your answer, because the attack speed actually gives a multiplicative bonus to the entire damage of each hand.

So assuming +5 greensteel dwarven axes... lightning strike of course. A rangers damage would equal 2d10 (11) + 26 (str+fe+ram's) + 5(enchantment) + 14 (lightning strike of 700 damage @ 2% proc) + 7 (holy) + 3.5 (lightning) for a total of 66.5 with mainhand, and 60.5 with offhand.

I could add Rage, madstone rage, etc... but that would muck up everything even more than it already is. Just remember that a Ranger would get a 10% increase in the bonus of anymore variables (bard songs, rages, prayer, etc) than the barbarian would. If you want to add all those bonuses you could get an added 1.5 (at least) to each hand, but I won't worry about those.

10% of that bonus to each hand 6.6 to mainhand, and 6.0 to offhand would and would bring the Ranger up to 32.6 mainhand/26 offhand.

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Fully Frenzied and Raged barbarian

42/33

Tempest Ranger

32/26

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So, with double frenzy and rage going, the barbarian wins out by 10 damage on main hand, and 7 on offhand. So a Frenzied berserker wins out against the Ranger even against fortified targets.

Now you just have to ask yourself if that gain is worth taking 2d3 damage with each hand on every swing. 4 damage with each hand... hasted you would get something like 110 swings / min. (I'm not really up to speed on swings/min.. someone else can enlighten on that point, but 110 is fairly close hasted).

110 swings or so with both hands, or 880 damage or so a minute. It'll be a bit lower than that with offhand not getting full progression, and a miss every 20th swing or so.

But yeah...

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For the record. I realize that barbs do in fact make up quite a bit of DPS with barb critical rage I & II and soon to be multiplier I & II. But I would also remind people that that extra 21 damage from vicious won't be multiplied either.

I'm merely of the opinion that the slight bonus in DPS that barbarian is not enough of an increase to warrant the huge hit point sink that the double vicious is going to offer.

Anyways, I'm sure I made plenty of math mistakes at 2am... so feel free to do your own rundown.

The original question was whether or not Rangers did more damage than Barbarians on non-critical hits. And by extension, whether Rangers far outDPSed any creature that had 100% fortification.

We'll look at 2 characters, both dwarf, both using the same weapons.

Barbarian's strength:

18 + 6 (item) + 4 (level ups) + 10 (Rage + enhancements) + 2 (tome) = 40 strength (Yes, I realize we can get it higher... but not through any methods that aren't available to both classes... so this will suffice)

Ranger's strength:

18 + 6 (item) + 4 (level ups) + 2 (tome) + 2 (Ram's Might) = 32 Strength

-----------------------------------------------

So now.. we have the barbarian doing:

15 damage with his mainhand in bonus strength damage, and 7 damage with his offhand. Now.. the barbarian also gets bonuses from Barbarian power attack. I can't for the life of me remember if they get barbarian power attack IV, so we'll just call it +3 now.

18 main/ 10 off

The Ranger on the other hand is doing 11 damage with his main hand and 5 damage with his offhand.

But wait.. the ranger now gets damage bonuses too. Favored enemy bonus is +12, and Ram's Might is +3.

So now the final numbers look like:

26 main/ 20 off

-------------------------------------------------

A final difference of 8 damage on the main hand, and 10 on the offhand in the Ranger's Favor.

--------------------------------------------------

Of course... the interesting thing will be if a barbarian can beat that if he goes into full out Frenzied Berserker, while even damaging himself. Great Frenzy and Frenzy stacked together will net 6 strength, and 6d6 extra damage via vicious.

The strength gives a bonus of +3 str to main hand, +2 to offhand, and then 21 to each hand with the vicious effects. Giving the barbarian 42 damage bonus with mainhand and 33 with the offhand. Which would seem to give a massive bonus to the barbarian.

But it's only fair to give the Rangers their prestige enhancement, if the 18 lvl barbarian is going to count all 3 tiers of his. You can't simply multiply these numbers by 1.1 to get your answer, because the attack speed actually gives a multiplicative bonus to the entire damage of each hand.

So assuming +5 greensteel dwarven axes... lightning strike of course. A rangers damage would equal 2d10 (11) + 26 (str+fe+ram's) + 5(enchantment) + 14 (lightning strike of 700 damage @ 2% proc) + 7 (holy) + 3.5 (lightning) for a total of 66.5 with mainhand, and 60.5 with offhand.

I could add Rage, madstone rage, etc... but that would muck up everything even more than it already is. Just remember that a Ranger would get a 10% increase in the bonus of anymore variables (bard songs, rages, prayer, etc) than the barbarian would. If you want to add all those bonuses you could get an added 1.5 (at least) to each hand, but I won't worry about those.

10% of that bonus to each hand 6.6 to mainhand, and 6.0 to offhand would and would bring the Ranger up to 32.6 mainhand/26 offhand.

-------------------------------------

Fully Frenzied and Raged barbarian

42/33

Tempest Ranger

32/26

---------------------------------------

So, with double frenzy and rage going, the barbarian wins out by 10 damage on main hand, and 7 on offhand. So a Frenzied berserker wins out against the Ranger even against fortified targets.

Now you just have to ask yourself if that gain is worth taking 2d3 damage with each hand on every swing. 4 damage with each hand... hasted you would get something like 110 swings / min. (I'm not really up to speed on swings/min.. someone else can enlighten on that point, but 110 is fairly close hasted).

110 swings or so with both hands, or 880 damage or so a minute. It'll be a bit lower than that with offhand not getting full progression, and a miss every 20th swing or so.

But yeah...

---------------------------------------------

For the record. I realize that barbs do in fact make up quite a bit of DPS with barb critical rage I & II and soon to be multiplier I & II. But I would also remind people that that extra 21 damage from vicious won't be multiplied either.

I'm merely of the opinion that the slight bonus in DPS that barbarian is not enough of an increase to warrant the huge hit point sink that the double vicious is going to offer.

Anyways, I'm sure I made plenty of math mistakes at 2am... so feel free to do your own rundown.