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View Full Version : dragontouched armor such a disappointment...



woundweaver
12-08-2008, 08:06 AM
well,after an extremely boring 4 days off and no shroud, i decided to go after the dt armor and sorjek. well,got several runes, got the armor, and went to the altars.even had some extras in case i didnt like the effect given!! well, i got the same effect on two runes-back to back. not just once, but twice...got ripped for 3 runes total. so,brings me to the question...WHY THE RANDOMNESS!!! it sucks!! and to top it all off, my +5 mithril full plate has better stats armorwise than the dragontouched for my barbarian...so,after getting aggravated at spending a whole weekend for nothing-i sold the piece of s@#t to a barkeep for 1000 pp. and i have no desire whatsoever to go get essences to redo the armor..the randomness sucks...period. why cant you put more ingredients for it out,and give us some choice of picking our bonuses. so,the new area was a huge waste of time for me...when the shroud opens again on wednesday,im never doing any refuge quests again seeing as they are a buggy waste of time. so,for everyone whos armor came out as intended...grats, you got lucky. for everyone like me... dont waste your time. and check your base armor stats...yours just might be better. mine was.

Draclaud
12-08-2008, 09:55 AM
The randoness is a little anoying, and it's silly that you lose ac to wear the DT armor. I lost about 3 AC going from BP of destruction to the DT Leather. What I gained was Air Guard/Crushing Wave Guard/Restistance +5...Needless to say I'm going to sacrifice the 3 AC...

Sharzade
12-08-2008, 10:02 AM
In the new quests, the runes I've been lucky on have made up for the ones I've considered a loss. So far the ones I like best are Greater False Life, Smiting, and Improved Healing 20 %. I've started a second robe for my caster, because her first robe has feather falling which is quite cute.

I think the randomness is throughout the game. It's there every time a chest gets opened, and even in the Shroud I don't know what ingredients I'm gonna get because it's pretty random there too. There are long periods of no scales or stones, and then little spurts of finding the right stuff. So maybe you were just a bit unlucky in your Refuge runs. But good luck could be just around the corner!! ;)

Cheers,

Sharzade
:)

BlackSteel
12-08-2008, 10:25 AM
pulled resistance +5 / wisdom +1 / and greater potency 7 for my WF cleric, and I GAINED 4 AC points with the new docent. Only had it once where my effect rerolled into the same thing, but that was eldricth and could really care less considering how easy it is to farm.

For a barbarian I can see a half dozen effects atleast that would be very appealing, even with the prospect of losing an AC or two. Keep in mind tho, not everyone rolled within your dex range where they'll be losing AC. The armor does have a higher base, to make up for not being mithral. Which enables people w/o a middle - high dex bonus to actually gain AC.

BlackSteel
12-08-2008, 10:26 AM
plan on starting my barbarian in there now that my cleric has a decent set. Resistance +5 / str +1 / and Radiance Gaurd should make a fun set ^^

Dirac
12-08-2008, 10:37 AM
The randomness is annoying, but one should be able to pick up something good in the first two tiers with a little trial and error. My high AC character won't use it, sure; but for a barbarian? The dragontouched armor is awesome. You lose 1 ac over +5 MFP, which is mostly useless for a barbarian. My barbarian currently has +5 resistance and +6 wisdom, freeing up 2(!) item slots.

Deathseeker
12-08-2008, 10:54 AM
Saying DT is useless just shows lack of game knowledge.

Does DT armor make all other armor obsolete? Of course not...if it did, it would be overpowered and ruin the game. Shroud weapons don't make all other weapons obsolete either.

I get you may not like the random model vs. the collecting/crafting model like shroud. But shroud is one type, DT is another. Mixes things up a little. I like it personally...I like having to decide whether to risk switching or not. But its a personal taste, fair enough...I can appreciate if you don't like the random style.

But saying its useless is silly. It may be to a particular build or playstyle, but remember you don't have to wear it all the time even. I throw on my Icey Raiments when I need to max ac. But you can switch to DT when you need to max DPS. I can use Combat Expertise to balance the two and use To-Hit bonus to offset.

For a non AC build, its fantastic. Barbarians should love DT armor! Casters should too unless they have Blue Scale (and don't have a greater Arcane lore weapon). And even then, once can argue situational uses for max DT over Blue Scale.

Try posting your build, and ask for a DT recommendation...you may be missing out on some potential...

Thrudh
12-08-2008, 11:00 AM
Yeah.. I actually approve of the DT armor system... It can be frustrating, but it's not that terrible... The best thing about it is that you can get the base set after doing 4 quests... That's not too bad...

It's an interesting change of pace from the Shroud...

I think the way to do it is to have TWO sets of armor... so you can keep the half-decent attributes until you pull something better...

Nott
12-08-2008, 11:02 AM
I think the randomness is throughout the game. It's there every time a chest gets opened, and even in the Shroud I don't know what ingredients I'm gonna get because it's pretty random there too.That's true, but the difference here (excluding people who have an experimental DT armor set) is that you don't get to see the random feature before throwing out your old feature... you have to replace something blindly.

Here's an idea for Turbine... make a new use for dragonshard fragments (or make a new drop to apply to this purpose)... and create an NPC that, with the right turn-in of fragments, will devine the true nature of an essence. At least this would let us alleviate risk in altering our armor. I know, it removes some of the grind feature that I expect you purposely put in, but it makes people happy and costs you very little effort.

Dirac
12-08-2008, 11:21 AM
I think the way to do it is to have TWO sets of armor... so you can keep the half-decent attributes until you pull something better...

This absolutely how I am going about it. Once you upgrade, then start experimenting on the other one.

Milolyen
12-08-2008, 11:22 AM
That's true, but the difference here (excluding people who have an experimental DT armor set) is that you don't get to see the random feature before throwing out your old feature... you have to replace something blindly.

Here's an idea for Turbine... make a new use for dragonshard fragments (or make a new drop to apply to this purpose)... and create an NPC that, with the right turn-in of fragments, will devine the true nature of an essence. At least this would let us alleviate risk in altering our armor. I know, it removes some of the grind feature that I expect you purposely put in, but it makes people happy and costs you very little effort.

Or you could keep wearing the +5 mithral fp or what ever you where wearing before while you are working on getting the DT armor upto the point where you would want it. Nothing says you have to wear the DT armor in order to apply runes to DT armor. You find something you like on say the eldritch list keep it for awhile even if it isn't optimal. Then gather a bunch of them and switch it out all at once keeping in mind that if 2 or more runes stack means they apply the same bonus. That way you have a better chance of getting what you wanted to make the armor optimal and less risk of makeing the armor worse. For instance currently my fighter has Greater False Life on the armor which will let me free up my GFL belt however I want +5 resistance. So I will just stack a bunch of the eldritch runes till I get like 15+ then go for the optimal armor.

Milolyen

kingfisher
12-08-2008, 11:22 AM
dt can be used give good ac too.
dt leather works well for the toon with a high dex in the 26-30 range, especially with daggertooths belt or fam, allows me to gain +6 ac on one ranger over the crip chain.
also allows you to get the +3 dodge bonus if you dont have a chatt ring. if you do swap for +4 insight.

i am shooting for +5 protect, +3 dodge, and +5 resist

Deathseeker
12-08-2008, 11:24 AM
This absolutely how I am going about it. Once you upgrade, then start experimenting on the other one.

Absolutely! It also allows you to build multiple sets with the different Soveriegn option so you can use them situationally. Pick the handful of Soveriegn options you want, and each time you get one, then work on putting the Tempest/Eldritch options with it you want. It's a great strategy for building DT vs just rolling the dice on one set.

woundweaver
12-08-2008, 11:30 AM
thanks for the replies...my barb is pure 26,23,26,11,15,8. has a 35 ac,unbuffed. does awesome damage,has massive amount of hp's,and has ac to boot. and lets not forget the will saves. he has those, too. using +5 mithril full plate. what i ended up with was empored healing 2, improved false life, and ooze guard. and as i said, i had extra runes beforehand because of the randomness,and used them,but kept getting the same effect i had as before,but would use the rune...

woundweaver
12-08-2008, 11:39 AM
really want the +4 ac bonus,to take it off my mineral 2 greataxe,i know for sure. any recommendations for the other 2 slots. will respeck him if necessary for heavy armor proficiency. only cost me a toughness feat. but as i said,i dont want to go backwards in ac. i always say you can have all the hit points you want, but if you cant keep from getting hit,they mean nothing... is feather fall an option? that would be nice,and maybe greater false life....i really dont know what my options are. lol. im open to suggestions

Deathseeker
12-08-2008, 11:54 AM
thanks for the replies...my barb is pure 26,23,26,11,15,8. has a 35 ac,unbuffed. does awesome damage,has massive amount of hp's,and has ac to boot. and lets not forget the will saves. he has those, too. using +5 mithril full plate. what i ended up with was empored healing 2, improved false life, and ooze guard. and as i said, i had extra runes beforehand because of the randomness,and used them,but kept getting the same effect i had as before,but would use the rune...

For starters, you have to make sure you were seeing the new effect. If you dont take your armor off then on, you may be seeing the old effect and not the new one, thus making you think you got the same one over and over.

Second, check the base stats of the armor again. The DT has +2 more than regular FP. It isn't mithral, so you lose 2 Dex worth of armor. In other words its the same. Are you a dwarf, and are you maxed on your armor enhancements if you are? Those can be used to balance things out. You'd lose evasion on this FP which is a game breaker, but if you are a pure barb that doesnt matter.

You may want to reconsider your AC strategy. 35 ac unbuffed is not enough to stop end game attacks from meaningful mobs. From super easy trash mobs it is once you are buffed up by someone, but you are very likely smashing through those like butter with your barb. Might be better off with mutliple guards instead for the added DPS.

But, if you go the armor route, do you have a chattering ring? If not, then go for the +3 bonus on the DT armor. You can also get a +4 natural armor bonus instead even if you do.

If I'm reading your stats right, if you are a dwarf, since you have a +5 on your dex, you aren't maxing your dwarf enhancements for armor anyways. Spend the AP on one more, then throw on the DT armor. You'd actually gain an AC point with the DT. Or, if you are wearing a +6 dex item to get there, just take it off when you put on the DT item, and put on Madstone boots and use the +4 Dex from them. Since you don't need as much Dex for the same AC from DT armor, you can save a slot by using the madstone boots as your dex item.

Dunno, I didn't think all of the above through in detail, just some initial thoughts...but seems like you have all types of options...enjoy!

Issip
12-08-2008, 12:11 PM
Seems like great armor for those who don't care about armor.

Milolyen
12-08-2008, 12:24 PM
thanks for the replies...my barb is pure 26,23,26,11,15,8. has a 35 ac,unbuffed. does awesome damage,has massive amount of hp's,and has ac to boot. and lets not forget the will saves. he has those, too. using +5 mithril full plate. what i ended up with was empored healing 2, improved false life, and ooze guard. and as i said, i had extra runes beforehand because of the randomness,and used them,but kept getting the same effect i had as before,but would use the rune...

As Death said ... you are at the point where AC is rather meaningless for you and you would be hard pressed to get it to the point where it is meaningfull. As a Barb you should be focusing on dealing as much dmg as you can and in this respect a couple of guards would be good, +5 resists to give your resists a boost would be much better than the 2 ac you lose. Also you should go with the DT BP (or leather if you plan on getting evasion in the future) and not FP. Take a look at the lists of what is possible from each rune ... there is lots of different possabilities you can take advantage of with this armor depending on current equipment and raid loot. For instance with my ranger I picked up +5 resist, +6 str and enervation guard. +5 resist replaced my cloak which allowed me to craft a existencial stalemate cloak (wizardry 6, immunity to both fear and poison, Wis 6, and deathblock). This cloak allowed me to free up my +5 wis ring which changed it to a +6 dex ring (till I can get tumbleweed). Switching ring freed up my gloves which I replaced with thornguard (gloves from DQ) which I had sitting in bank. +6 str on it freed up my other ring slot and not sure what I am going to do with it but currently have chattering ring there. But I like having the open slots as you never know what we are going to get in the future.

*edit*So net gain with this armor was +1 resist, Wizardry 6, Immunity to both fear and poison, +1 wis, deathblock, +2 to hit (when I get tumbleweed), 10/bludgeon,slashing, 1d8 peircing guard, and enervation guard along with a free ring slot. All I lose is +4 to protection and 3 clickies of shield (but can also swap back out to White Dragon Robe to use the clickie then swap back)

Milolyen

Mindspat
12-08-2008, 12:30 PM
There should have been better emphasis to detail how advantageous it is to "stock up" on Runes before attemting to make your armor. There's two faults with DT armor, one being the impact upon general players who expect a reasonable return on the first attempt, the other is lacking special runes in the optional chests to the 3 pre-req_quests.

I used 6 each of Tempest and Eldrich along with 1 Soverign to get Leather DT with +5 Protection, Healing Amplification +10% & Improved Glaciation VIII. I'm not too found of the Healing Amp being that my character only has 210 hitpoints as is, but it adds up when keeping my ass alive! :D

Turial
12-08-2008, 01:28 PM
Seems like great armor for those who don't care about armor.

Bingo.

Deathseeker
12-08-2008, 01:42 PM
Seems like great armor for those who don't care about armor.

If you have the Icey Raiments, Chattering Ring, and +8 Armor bracers, then yes...DT doesnt come close.

But if you don't have the Chattering Ring and +8 Armor Bracers, I disagree.

Icey +4 Dodge bonus
+7 Armor Bracers
= 11

DT +6 Armor Bonus
DT Soveriegn +3 Dodge bonus
Chaosguarde +2 Dodge
= 11

The difference is that the DT combo gives you two other benefits (eldritch/tempest) with no more slots.

Doesnt seem like a bad deal to me...if you are lawful or have UMD of course. But then again, if you are concerned about getting top tier AC, you are pretty likely carrying a monk or pally level which means you are lawful.

Seems to me that DT provides more AC choices. It isn't the top tier if you are maxing AC, but it certainly adds all kinds of possibilities.

Thelmallen
12-08-2008, 01:48 PM
Seems like great armor for those who don't care about armor.

My evasion paladin came out with the exact same AC using the DT leather as with a +5 mithral chain shirt and was able to consolidate 2 equipment slots and get +4 natural armor bonus to boot. I would say that's a pretty fair trade for running 6 quests (had to redo tempest and eldritch).

My point is that the DT armor can be a win/win situation for the right build. For a build whose dex bonus doesn't calculate just right for the DT armor, it can be frustrating, however.

MrCow
12-08-2008, 01:48 PM
Seems like great armor for those who don't care about armor.

Unless you are Warforged, because then it is the holy grail of your AC. :)

Josh
12-08-2008, 01:50 PM
It isn't the top tier if you are maxing AC, but it certainly adds all kinds of possibilities.

True, and all of them 100% random. I think that's the biggest problem. I know lots of people who have used 20+ soverign runes and not gotten what they wanted.

Darth_Sizzle
12-08-2008, 01:50 PM
It sucks for those of us (that includes me) who haven't been able to get what they want on their armor. For those who have been lucky enough to get what they want (which, someday, hopefully, will include me) it rocks.

Turial
12-08-2008, 01:52 PM
Unless you are Warforged, because then it is the holy grail of your AC. :)

Yeah but is it better then the DOD for most warforged?

Granted it is much easier to get the DT docent then the DOD.

Darth_Sizzle
12-08-2008, 01:57 PM
As far as FP wearers, I only see a difference if you have evasion. Granted, if you have evasion and wear Mithral FP then I don't think DT is the way to go if you are maxing AC.

Evasion doesn't work in FP, even Mithral. Evasion only works in light armor (or none).

Gratch
12-08-2008, 02:03 PM
Seems like great armor for those who don't care about armor.

Yeah... it's pretty painful AC wise for the mid-dex'er evasion AC builds who already have chattering rings and every point of AC counts... especially with the new Mod as the devs design a d20 system to hit AC 80 monks and the crowd of high-dex toons (many of which now have the Icy's). The biggest benefit would be if you could get the exact right properties... you could get some slot-consolidation.

I do like the DT armor for my warforged. Yes, it takes a while to get something useful... but given the previous warforged docent selection (excluding the sometimes massively useful docent of defiance)....

woundweaver
12-08-2008, 02:09 PM
i am using boots of the innocent,ethereal bracers,necklace of conteplation,bloodstone,tumbleweed,and a mineral 2 greataxe with +4 insight...and im a human barbarian.no evasion.

Deathseeker
12-08-2008, 02:12 PM
Evasion doesn't work in FP, even Mithral. Evasion only works in light armor (or none).

Yep, should be Mithral BP...good catch! Will correct...

Anyone know the DT BP stats vs Mithral BP stats?

Sharzade
12-08-2008, 02:15 PM
I'm planning to get armours finished for my characters that can benefit the most, and maybe not for my characters that would benefit less. The main strength of making these armours, in my opinion, is that the armours are opening up my item slots. That fact gives some of my builds some unexpected new oomph and sparkle.

Cheers,

Midnight
;)
:p
:D
:)

BlackSteel
12-08-2008, 02:23 PM
i am using boots of the innocent,ethereal bracers,necklace of conteplation,bloodstone,tumbleweed,and a mineral 2 greataxe with +4 insight...and im a human barbarian.no evasion.

getting resistance +5 on ur armor (tier 1, pretty easy to do) would free up your boots for madstone, netting you +4 more str for damage, and more HP, plus you move faster

btw the necklace to hit doesnt stack with the tumbleweed, are u using it just for the false life?

+1 str or +1 con both stacking are available on the second tier, both very nice for a melee, or grab the +6 stat to free up an item slot, other perks are various shroud gaurd effects

sundering ooze is fun if you dont already have the effect on another piece of armor, had lots of guildies jealous of my oozes from the shroud, that are now ooze capable w/o spending 24 larges
radiance gaurd would be a nice defensive touch; both available on the third tier random craft

pumagirl418
12-08-2008, 02:33 PM
I don't have a clue why they didn't come up with some way to identify the runes. I've had no luck.
And in the randomness, why make them bind as well. Just makes it even more of a hassle imo.

The new design on leather, well lets just say I preferrd the missing design.

HEY TURBINE- will runes continue to be random? or will you listen to your player base that has had no luck with runes and unbind them and give us a way to identify too!

Dirac
12-08-2008, 02:35 PM
Yep, should be Mithral BP...good catch! Will correct...

Anyone know the DT BP stats vs Mithral BP stats?

DT BP: +7 armor, max 3 dex
M BP: + 5 armor, max 5 dex

So, the same (assuming +5 enhancement), but you don't need as high of dex to max out the DT armor (from memory, but pretty sure this is correct).

BlackSteel
12-08-2008, 02:36 PM
Yeah but is it better then the DOD for most warforged?

Granted it is much easier to get the DT docent then the DOD.

if you're going AC you dont give a rats about the DOD, kinda silly to rely on a proc when hit, when u're devoting so much to not being hit in the first place

Deathseeker
12-08-2008, 02:41 PM
I don't have a clue why they didn't come up with some way to identify the runes. I've had no luck.
And in the randomness, why make them bind as well. Just makes it even more of a hassle imo.

The new design on leather, well lets just say I preferrd the missing design.

HEY TURBINE- will runes continue to be random? or will you listen to your player base that has had no luck with runes and unbind them and give us a way to identify too!

Then you better make the quest a heck of a lot harder. If they were unbound and labelled, the market would be so efficient that everyone would have the precise armor they want in about a week.

I'd prefer DT didn't work like the Tapestry crafting or Tor Armor. That's boring to me. I prefer a fun chance at something each time.

Leave it as is...we already have the shroud mechanism. Some variation is good.

I would agree that it would be cool not be able to end up with the same effect that you have on your existing armor.

cforce
12-08-2008, 03:26 PM
My 2 cents: as a more casual player, the DT armor setup is waaaaaay better for me than the Shroud. I'm never trying to craft a shroud weapon -- I'll probably run the Shroud 3 times, lifetime, and simply won't ever find the ingredients to get anything.

On the other hand, I've been able to run the 4 quests to get a DT docent, and have something in *one* run of the pre-quests and final quest. It ain't "perfect", but it's quality loot. What would I expect to have after one run of the 5 Vale quests and the Shroud? Not even enough basic ingredient to craft my greensteel template!

So, different strokes for different folks. The Shroud model is better for some people. For people like me, having a (random) reward earlier in the process is a lot better.

Milolyen
12-08-2008, 04:46 PM
Then you better make the quest a heck of a lot harder. If they were unbound and labelled, the market would be so efficient that everyone would have the precise armor they want in about a week.

I'd prefer DT didn't work like the Tapestry crafting or Tor Armor. That's boring to me. I prefer a fun chance at something each time.

Leave it as is...we already have the shroud mechanism. Some variation is good.

I would agree that it would be cool not be able to end up with the same effect that you have on your existing armor.

The only way I could see it being a bit better is if it still bound but you could see what it did before you picked it up. You would still have the randomness, would still have to be in the run, but you could trade them in the chests and it would not be an automatic win just a little easier of one. Then again there is so little in the game people can really be proud of and grinding to get that (currently) ULTIMATE combo is something. I was SO excited when I fineally got the +5 resists on mine to finish it off (well for the most part as I would prefer a different sov effect but oh well).

Milolyen

QuantumFX
12-08-2008, 07:14 PM
Add me to the list of players that are frustrated at the randomness.

I've burned over 25 Eldrich runes just to settle on +5 Resistance (Was going for Greater False Life)

I've burned at least 35 Tempest runes just to get ANYTHING other than a caster enchantment.

I was fortunate enough to only spend 5 Soverign runes to get the Smiting Enchantment on ONE suit of armor.

With a Shroud like system I could have EASILY collected/traded for all the components I needed to craft the GFL/+6 STR/Destruction armor that I want.

Vengenance
12-08-2008, 08:01 PM
If you have the Icey Raiments, Chattering Ring, and +8 Armor bracers, then yes...DT doesnt come close.

But if you don't have the Chattering Ring and +8 Armor Bracers, I disagree.

Icey +4 Dodge bonus
+7 Armor Bracers
= 11

DT +6 Armor Bonus
DT Soveriegn +3 Dodge bonus
Chaosguarde +2 Dodge
= 11

The difference is that the DT combo gives you two other benefits (eldritch/tempest) with no more slots.

Doesnt seem like a bad deal to me...if you are lawful or have UMD of course. But then again, if you are concerned about getting top tier AC, you are pretty likely carrying a monk or pally level which means you are lawful.

Seems to me that DT provides more AC choices. It isn't the top tier if you are maxing AC, but it certainly adds all kinds of possibilities.

Well put. The DT armor also frees up valuable equipment slots for other items. My Ranger/Monk/Ftr does have Rainments and +8 Bracers (no chattering ring yet) and I'm still working on a DT outfit because they can give you good AC while at the same time freeing up equipment slots.

I'm making a DT Outfit w/following characteristics:
Resistance +5
Protection +5
+4 Insight

This will slightly reduce my maximum attainable AC but will raise my average AC since the +4 Insight Bonus will affect all my weapons and not just my shroud weapons.

+6 Armor
+2 Chaos Guards
+5 Protection
+4 Insight
17 w/two items

+8 Armor Bracers
+4 Dodge
12 w/two items

With my new combo I'll lose 4 AC when I'm wielding my crafted weapons, but with my normal weapons I'll actually gain AC, free up my +5 protection slot, and gain +2 to my saves over the Rainments. When I finally get my chattering ring it'll apply to either armor combination. My +5 protection cloak can now be swapped for a Tripple Negative Crafted Item to give me blanket immunities.

Riggs
12-09-2008, 07:35 PM
Seems like great armor for those who don't care about armor.

Indeed.

For those who care about ac, not so much.

Except for - clerics, wizards, any warforged (+2 base is really nice), and non-dex ftrs (like 10-16 dex).

Anyone over 20 dex is going to lose ac.

*edit, as some have said, you can use the dt armor to save slots.

Problem - if you EVER want the ac, you have to keep the same items in your pack anyway. And then when you want ac, swap out not just armor, but 3 other sets of items at least. More if you trade a slot for another slot (swapping con for wis or whatever if you free up a belt/necklace slot say). And what are you swapping in that is so great anyway that it is better than stat items, gfp, or +5 saves or ac? if it is a 'must have' then you should have it fit in already, if not....thats not a really great argument for losing ac.

And if you swapped a stat item for a prot item or gfl item or whatever, then you need to keep track of what your swapping out and basically have a hotbar JUST for when you swap all 6 items back and forth every time you swap.

So - to save the slots, you have to carry 2 sets of stuff in your pack, and remember the items to swap so you dont accidentally skip them and miss out the who benefit of swapping, and still lose the ac when you do it.

So as above....its great armor if you dont care about your ac too much. But if you do....its a waste of time and space to add a guard say that does somethign on a hit, when your real armor stops you from getting hit instead.....(hint - monsters have a lot more hp than players - they can take more)

Blazer
12-09-2008, 08:25 PM
<snip>

Pretty much my situation for my AC/intimidate build. She's got 2 rogue levels for evasion but wears the heavy armor when it's more suitable. The DT fullplate means she could ditch the ranks in Tower Shield Mastery, but the DT leather means she could ditch the ranks in Fighter Armor Mastery. At that point, she couldn't really switch from one to the other, even if I got really lucky and was able to make a set of both that ended up with identical runes.

plus10swordofpimp
12-09-2008, 08:44 PM
worthless as t**s on a bull! went through 3 tempest runes, and got the same d*** thing each time.

i guess i'll have to stick with lionheart and radiance guard for now, and the lame efficient metamagic ii i got from the 3 tempest runes.

guess its time to swap the game dice... lol.

Auran82
12-09-2008, 08:55 PM
The DT armour is great for any intimitank who uses a tower shield.

Don't have to spend as many enhancements to get the same AC and then you get the extra abilities on top of that.

Blazer
12-09-2008, 09:18 PM
The DT armour is great for any intimitank who uses a tower shield.

Don't have to spend as many enhancements to get the same AC and then you get the extra abilities on top of that.

Agreed, if said intimitank doesn't have/want to use evasion.

Mindspat
12-10-2008, 01:31 PM
i have no desire whatsoever to go get essences to redo the armor..

You do realize that you don't need the essences to retune your armor, right?

I'm amazed how simple this system of creating armor is through practice while agree who confusing and annoying it sounds otherwise. If you're running the content, having fun and occasionaly collecting decent loot you're also going to be building up a nice stockpile of Runes to be used for armor.

The main downfall I see with DT armor is not having special runes drop from the optional chests. There could at least be a larger stack of Draconic Runes from the optionals...

Mindspat
12-10-2008, 01:37 PM
Agreed, if said intimitank doesn't have/want to use evasion.

But, evasion builds are facilitated through a design flaw. Hopefully the developer responsible, Eladrin?, will make better use of their assets and design more content that's not as dependant upon having Evasion in character builds.

Multi class evasion builds reminds me of the "defense stacking" days of Star Wars Galaxies or stab-athons from EVE Online.

The_Phenx
12-10-2008, 02:36 PM
Anyone over 20 dex is going to lose ac.


I have a 25 dex on Ghin and I gained 2 ac while twf and 5 ac while using a ower shield, and gained back 1 inventory slot.

Tis a good deal for me anyway.

The_Phenx
12-10-2008, 02:39 PM
not as dependant upon having Evasion


Its not dependant, just easier...My fighter does just fine in Kobold...and no he doesn't need babysitting from a cleric.

maddmatt70
12-10-2008, 02:43 PM
getting resistance +5 on ur armor (tier 1, pretty easy to do) would free up your boots for madstone, netting you +4 more str for damage, and more HP, plus you move faster

btw the necklace to hit doesnt stack with the tumbleweed, are u using it just for the false life?

+1 str or +1 con both stacking are available on the second tier, both very nice for a melee, or grab the +6 stat to free up an item slot, other perks are various shroud gaurd effects

sundering ooze is fun if you dont already have the effect on another piece of armor, had lots of guildies jealous of my oozes from the shroud, that are now ooze capable w/o spending 24 larges
radiance gaurd would be a nice defensive touch; both available on the third tier random craft

Hah i love how you keep saying it is pretty easy to get a +5 resistance rune. How many times did you run the quests shadowsteel to get what you want? My healing bard would be working on her 2nd shroud item right now in the time it has taken her to get one of the three runes that she wanted (this was her 3rd choice by the way - gfl would prefer heavy fort or resist +5) and the other two she still has not gotten any that she wants despite 2-3 runes for each of the other tiers being desirable.

Draccus
12-10-2008, 02:48 PM
I love the stuff. My rogue isn't going to have ridiculous AC because I refuse to wear a robe so I like the ability to combine a bunch of good stuff on my armor. The randomness has been frustrating with one rune but I got lucky with the others so I'm not complaining. Here's what I've done to my DT Leather:

Eldrich: 1) Greater False Life (stopped)
Tempest: 1) Exc. Cha +1 2) Healing Amp 3) Healing Amp 4) Can't recall but wasn't good 5) Exc. Cha +1 6) Healing Amp 7) Spell Pen 8) Str +6 (stopped)
Sovereign: 1) Potency 2) AC insight +4 (stopped)

I'm thinking about continuing to try Tempest runes because the +6 str freed up my bracer slot and there's not much else I want to put there. The Chaosguard would be nice but I'd rather have Dex, Cha, Int, or Con on my armor to free up the more useful necklace, ring, and cloak slots.

Thrudh
12-10-2008, 03:00 PM
Icey +4 Dodge bonus
+7 Armor Bracers
= 11

DT +6 Armor Bonus
DT Soveriegn +3 Dodge bonus
Chaosguarde +2 Dodge
= 11

The difference is that the DT combo gives you two other benefits (eldritch/tempest) with no more slots.




+6 Armor
+2 Chaos Guards
+5 Protection
+4 Insight
17 w/two items

+8 Armor Bracers
+4 Dodge
12 w/two items


You guys are forgetting the the Icy Raiments ALSO give +4 protection and +3 resistance..... And is now much easier to get than the "perfect" DT combo...

My wizard, bard, cleric, and barbarian are all going for the DT armor.... None of whom have evasion.

My ranger, the only one who completely kicks ass in those quests, isn't interested.

Gunga
12-10-2008, 03:18 PM
Indeed.

For those who care about ac, not so much.

Except for - clerics, wizards, any warforged (+2 base is really nice), and non-dex ftrs (like 10-16 dex).

Anyone over 20 dex is going to lose ac.

*edit, as some have said, you can use the dt armor to save slots.

Problem - if you EVER want the ac, you have to keep the same items in your pack anyway. And then when you want ac, swap out not just armor, but 3 other sets of items at least. More if you trade a slot for another slot (swapping con for wis or whatever if you free up a belt/necklace slot say). And what are you swapping in that is so great anyway that it is better than stat items, gfp, or +5 saves or ac? if it is a 'must have' then you should have it fit in already, if not....thats not a really great argument for losing ac.

And if you swapped a stat item for a prot item or gfl item or whatever, then you need to keep track of what your swapping out and basically have a hotbar JUST for when you swap all 6 items back and forth every time you swap.

So - to save the slots, you have to carry 2 sets of stuff in your pack, and remember the items to swap so you dont accidentally skip them and miss out the who benefit of swapping, and still lose the ac when you do it.

So as above....its great armor if you dont care about your ac too much. But if you do....its a waste of time and space to add a guard say that does somethign on a hit, when your real armor stops you from getting hit instead.....(hint - monsters have a lot more hp than players - they can take more)

Nah. It's great armor. It's great because you get better AC with it, and it's great because you can free up slots with it.

What more would you have armor do?

Deathseeker
12-10-2008, 03:51 PM
You guys are forgetting the the Icy Raiments ALSO give +4 protection and +3 resistance..... And is now much easier to get than the "perfect" DT combo...

My wizard, bard, cleric, and barbarian are all going for the DT armor.... None of whom have evasion.

My ranger, the only one who completely kicks ass in those quests, isn't interested.

Im not forgetting. If you have a chattering ring, then it isnt even close, go Icey. If you don't, and don't have armored 8 bracers, DT armor provides a reasonable alternative to the Icey Raiment setup.

I carry both on my ranger. For max AC, I wear the Icey Raiments as well. But I also switch over to DT for other configurations (frees up equipment slots for other immunities, named items, etc). I do sacrifice some AC in that case. But I also carry Combat Expertise that I can switch on and off to compensate as well. I really enjoy picking out the best combo of gear/CE/PA for the situation. Makes me feel like I'm applying more skill and knowledge than just hacking away Probably doesnt really mean that, but makes me feel good :)

Point is...DT gives more options, not less. It isn't useless. It also isnt the only armor solution either (which is good because otherwise everything else would be nullified).

More options = more build variations = better DDO

etelan
12-31-2008, 11:58 AM
Moved to new thread:
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=1988275#post1988275

Riggs
01-04-2009, 06:52 PM
As some have posted, yes you can get some good combos, and bump your ac if you dont have the full icy/chattering ring/armor 7 or 8 bracers.....

But if you are going for ac...and have the time to run all 4 quests 20 times each for runes.....then you also probably have the time to grind for icy raiments and a chattering ring.

Both my 24 dex, 28 dexand 36 dex rangers would lose ac wearing any of the armors now. Lower ac on 'raid armor' really isnt an attractive option.

Much like green steel was missing most of the weapons in the first release, Turbine is going to have to strongly think about adding DT mithril chain shirts, mithril BP, and make robes better.

Normal random robes should already be enchantable to +5. there is zero gameplay reason (as in, its magic, so if I can make a hunk of metal +5, or leather +5, and +5 exists on cloth already in von 6...why is there no +5 robes?). So DT robes should actually be +7 not +6 really.

If the full range of armor was available, then a lot more classes and builds might be interested in it. As it stands right now though, the only reason my non-wf , non-caster builds would want it, is if I was planning on getting hit anyway, and adding some nice effect to it in a guard say. But since space is alays limited, I dont feel like carrying around 2 sets of everything to swap out a save item, protection, or gfl, or whatever just to swap 6 things for a couple fights.

But if the goal is to not get hit....pointless.

Add in the extreme frustration after getting the same rune 3-4 times in a row, or getting all the caster runes I want on my caster, but only my fighter gets it, and my cleric gets all the ac/guard runes I wanted on my fighter...man thats a real incentive to just stop running all the quests in there.

There is already way too much grinding in DDO, adding in more, and random grinding vs shroud which at least you get known items (well known after many people did the testing for it), so you know that after so many runs - you can get a item you want specifically. it might take 20 runs...but you know that after 20 runs you get X. Dt armor, you might run it 20 times and get yet another melodic guard, and boy thats a real fun way to spend 20 runs eh?