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View Full Version : Devs: Any hints on Holy Avenger before the holidays?



Geonis
11-26-2008, 11:04 AM
Well, that's the question... ;)



Edit: And for reference......


Holy Avenger
This +2 cold iron longsword becomes a +5 holy cold iron longsword in the hands of a paladin.

It provides spell resistance of 5 + the paladin’s level to the wielder and anyone adjacent to her. It also enables the wielder to use greater dispel magic (once per round as a standard action) at the class level of the paladin. (Only the area dispel is possible, not the targeted dispel or counterspell versions of greater dispel magic.)

Strong abjuration; CL 18th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, holy aura, creator must be good; Price 120,630 gp; Cost 60,630 gp + 4,800 XP.

Geonis
11-26-2008, 01:54 PM
Well?

Guaire
11-26-2008, 01:55 PM
Please? :eek::D

WeaselKing
11-26-2008, 01:55 PM
Before Thanksgiving? No.

Will it be one of the weekly releases from Eladrin? Perhaps.

Dexxaan
11-26-2008, 02:14 PM
If it ever does make into the game, please...for all that is dear to you Turbine....make it "incompatible or Exclusive" to avoid 2 basic issues:

a) TWF´rs wielding it. (Mine will have to settle for GS Dwarvens and Khopeshes ... darn :rolleyes:)

b) Make the Holy Avenger a S&B Trademark that will allow at least a few S&B´s to use it and who knows...maybe even enhance it if you use Levik´s Defender? or Another uber Shield?

Dracolich
11-26-2008, 02:31 PM
That would be a sweet weapon, also a nice bone to throw those poor paladins.

Mhykke
11-26-2008, 02:33 PM
All I know is the holy avenger in DDO has to be absolutely sick to give up greensteel.

Junts
11-26-2008, 02:35 PM
this is really something that would help everyone with paladin levels plan for mod9, things like, do i need insight ac on my dragontouched? do i need to keep imp crit:slash?

etc

Dracolich
11-26-2008, 02:36 PM
greensteel ruined loot in this game. Its because of those that like the previous poster states. It will be trumped by the already monty haul greensteel.

Turial
11-26-2008, 02:53 PM
If it ever does make into the game, please...for all that is dear to you Turbine....make it "incompatible or Exclusive" to avoid 2 basic issues:

a) TWF´rs wielding it. (Mine will have to settle for GS Dwarvens and Khopeshes ... darn :rolleyes:)

b) Make the Holy Avenger a S&B Trademark that will allow at least a few S&B´s to use it and who knows...maybe even enhance it if you use Levik´s Defender? or Another uber Shield?

I would imagine that the holy avenger will be something you can only get 1 of....either one-handed or two-handed.

Geonis
11-26-2008, 02:58 PM
If it ever does make into the game, please...for all that is dear to you Turbine....make it "incompatible or Exclusive" to avoid 2 basic issues:

a) TWF´rs wielding it. (Mine will have to settle for GS Dwarvens and Khopeshes ... darn :rolleyes:)

b) Make the Holy Avenger a S&B Trademark that will allow at least a few S&B´s to use it and who knows...maybe even enhance it if you use Levik´s Defender? or Another uber Shield?



A- TWF would/should see diminished returns when wielding 2.

One would give the main bonuses, a second wouldn't really do near as much.

The whole portion here:


It provides spell resistance of 5 + the paladin’s level to the wielder and anyone adjacent to her. It also enables the wielder to use greater dispel magic (once per round as a standard action) at the class level of the paladin. (Only the area dispel is possible, not the targeted dispel or counterspell versions of greater dispel magic.)

B- Why should SnB exclusively receive extra bonuses? The SnB bonus, should be increased AC (or DR in DDO).

GhostNull
11-26-2008, 04:35 PM
From Eladrin in this thread (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=159043):


My current plan is that the more levels of Paladin you possess, the more abilities on the Holy Avenger will be unlocked. There will likely be a minimum number of Paladin levels (as yet to be determined) to get the quest to recover the item.

While I've questioned some things the Devs have done for Paladins (Divine Might), I like this approach. It keeps the three-level-Paladin-splash builds from getting a potentially powerful and almost-free weapon. The pure and mostly pure Paladins should be the ones reaping the benefits.

And I do hope the Holy Avenger is labeled an "Exclusive" weapon. And, I'm curious if the Devs will deviate some and allow different weapon types for the Holy Avenger. However, I do feel it should stay to the sword-types (Short, Long, Bastard, Great).

Dexxaan
11-26-2008, 04:39 PM
And I do hope the Holy Avenger is labeled an "Exclusive" weapon. And, I'm curious if the Devs will deviate some and allow different weapon types for the Holy Avenger. However, I do feel it should stay to the sword-types (Short, Long, Bastard, Great).

Although Exotic - Khopesh should exist since it´s also a blade like those mentioned.

Axe-Avengers? Hmmmm prolly not.

GhostNull
11-26-2008, 07:31 PM
Although Exotic - Khopesh should exist since it´s also a blade like those mentioned.

Axe-Avengers? Hmmmm prolly not.

Yeah, but I was hoping to avoid that ;)
Khopesh's are already one of the "god" weapons for one-handers :p

Geonis
11-27-2008, 08:47 AM
Holy Avengers should probably stay only Long Sword and Short Sword, neither is the optimal type, but both are still useful.

Junts
11-27-2008, 09:00 AM
there is no good reason to penalize people who specialize in other weapons, especially given the holy sword spell creates such a wide range of weapons: there's not really a reasonable reason for the holy avenger to not come in every form available via holy sword, and in fact, if it comes as a longsword, it will have to be so ungodly amazing to come close to being usable for anyone who is a dwarven or khopesh user.

spell resistance and even greater dispels (both not that big a deal in this game) won't cut it. giving up 50+ damage on every crit and 100+ on exalted smites is not something that should be expected of every human khopesh or dwarven axe-specced paladin in the game, especially since that's something close to 60% of them. the thing could be a holy good burst good blast silver cold iron byeshk +5 longsword that gave you 30 sr and a greensteel khpoesh would be better dps - by a lot.

what i hope they do is make every paladin happy by making the weapon customizable - both in what base type it is, and let you select effects from it - like a mini-crafted paladin weapon


this is the only real loot opportunity to help paladins out, and what has been proposed in this thread is so far inferior to the item you get with a level 4 spell every time you login (the dr-beating holy bursting +5 khopesh/dwarven axe/whatever you need)

Dexxaan
11-27-2008, 09:05 AM
......what i hope they do is make every paladin happy by making the weapon customizable - both in what base type it is, and let you select effects from it - like a mini-crafted paladin weapon


Now were talking!

Junts
11-27-2008, 09:16 AM
loot is not a way to help the paladin class in any case but this (exclusive to paladin item) case

in any case, as we all know, not all holy avengers were really created alike, and most had unique names and powers (the dispel and sr abilities werent even universal, though close).

there were extra damage vs chaotic evil avengers, extra damage vs evil spellcaster avengers, etc, etc

there's no reason not to have some customizability (hell, just a series of choices that leads to 4-5 template avengers with unique names would rock) in an item that if designed well should be part and parcel of every paladin build.

if this item is a longsword, my paladin will not use it, and that will disappoint me enormously.

if it isn't keen, im gonna have a hard time working it in as it is (a rapier variant may be an option, but i'd rather have a keen slashing avenger), and Im already turning tricks trying to figure out if it will have an insight ac option (a big problem for me as well, though one i can manage around by doing triple leviks)


another idea:

this item should have 3 unlockable powers entirely separate from any choices, level options, etc:

it should gain 1 different power for each of the paladin prestige classes (scaling up the bonus for the class tiers: having defender of siberys I gives you a certain bonus (even if you have 20 pally levels, you may for some reason choose not to do all 3 tiers of an enhancement), having defender of sib 3 = bigger bonus of the same type).

no one can have more than one anyway, but this would be a really cool way to further synergize the avenger with the prcs, and they've already said that mod9 raidloot will have effects that synergize with capstone enhancements, so they are already designing this mechanic.

Mhykke
11-27-2008, 12:53 PM
Let's just hope the devs don't repeat their mistake and they make the holy avenger similar to armor crafting, where you can have a number of different effects to put on the weapon, but they're created randomly.

Junts
11-27-2008, 01:37 PM
Let's just hope the devs don't repeat their mistake and they make the holy avenger similar to armor crafting, where you can have a number of different effects to put on the weapon, but they're created randomly.

as long as i can make it comparable or better than my mineral2 and a khopesh, i would be ok with that

i would rather have it be useful with way too much effort than not useful

Uska
11-27-2008, 11:50 PM
loot is not a way to help the paladin class in any case but this (exclusive to paladin item) case

in any case, as we all know, not all holy avengers were really created alike, and most had unique names and powers (the dispel and sr abilities werent even universal, though close).

there were extra damage vs chaotic evil avengers, extra damage vs evil spellcaster avengers, etc, etc

there's no reason not to have some customizability (hell, just a series of choices that leads to 4-5 template avengers with unique names would rock) in an item that if designed well should be part and parcel of every paladin build.

if this item is a longsword, my paladin will not use it, and that will disappoint me enormously.

if it isn't keen, im gonna have a hard time working it in as it is (a rapier variant may be an option, but i'd rather have a keen slashing avenger), and Im already turning tricks trying to figure out if it will have an insight ac option (a big problem for me as well, though one i can manage around by doing triple leviks)


another idea:

this item should have 3 unlockable powers entirely separate from any choices, level options, etc:

it should gain 1 different power for each of the paladin prestige classes (scaling up the bonus for the class tiers: having defender of siberys I gives you a certain bonus (even if you have 20 pally levels, you may for some reason choose not to do all 3 tiers of an enhancement), having defender of sib 3 = bigger bonus of the same type).

no one can have more than one anyway, but this would be a really cool way to further synergize the avenger with the prcs, and they've already said that mod9 raidloot will have effects that synergize with capstone enhancements, so they are already designing this mechanic.

Actually all the orignal holy avengers were the same, exactly same powers and all were long swords

Geonis
11-28-2008, 09:16 AM
Actually all the orignal holy avengers were the same, exactly same powers and all were long swords

Part of the reason I was saying Long Sword and Short Sword only a Str and a Dex option, but not the best choice of either). I don't think the Holy Avenger should be a weapon every Pally uses. I think it should be on par with Greensteel, but not surpass it, and in some circumstances (builds/mobs), it should be an inferior choice. That being said, it should surpass the Holy Sword spell.

Mhykke
11-28-2008, 12:39 PM
Part of the reason I was saying Long Sword and Short Sword only a Str and a Dex option, but not the best choice of either). I don't think the Holy Avenger should be a weapon every Pally uses. I think it should be on par with Greensteel, but not surpass it, and in some circumstances (builds/mobs), it should be an inferior choice. That being said, it should surpass the Holy Sword spell.

Why shouldn't avengers surpass greensteel, if only slightly?

By the time avengers come out, a lot of paladins will have their greensteel weapons made. Not only that, the devs told us that avengers will gain in power the higher the level of paladin using it, and there will be a special quest to get it. Why spend time creating items and quests on things that aren't better than things in the game today? Why waste dev time?

Beherit_Baphomar
11-28-2008, 12:45 PM
Holy Avengers should probably stay only Long Sword and Short Sword, neither is the optimal type, but both are still useful.

Neither is optimal.
So leaving it on longsword, bastard sword, great sword and shortsword would mean it would never be used.

Beherit_Baphomar
11-28-2008, 12:45 PM
Why shouldn't avengers surpass greensteel, if only slightly?

By the time avengers come out, a lot of paladins will have their greensteel weapons made. Not only that, the devs told us that avengers will gain in power the higher the level of paladin using it, and there will be a special quest to get it. Why spend time creating items and quests on things that aren't better than things in the game today? Why waste dev time?

Roleplaying, Mhykke, roleplaying...

:/

Ganak
12-03-2008, 12:19 PM
I suspect there will be a level 20 Paladin enhancement (and lower tier enchancements as well) that add to the Holy Avenger's power.

Per Kate Paiz :
"Some of the high-level Enhancements players can get at level 20 will also stack with the raid set bonuses to give even greater benefits." from http://www.gamebanshee.com/interviews/dndonline6-2.php

I'm down to choosing between a Pure 20 Pally or 18 Paladin/2 Monk to roll. I'm waiting to see the Paladin capstone and Holy Avenger info before I choose. I'm in need of somethings to do between now and mod 9, please an official word on this subject!

dragonoffrost
12-03-2008, 12:44 PM
I see a problem with Holy Avengers being a Longsword only.

An Elven Paladin in this setting should be using a scimitar. The specialized weapon per the Undying Court enhancement is scimitar.

I know I'm getting picky but I already see my Elven pure paladin taking greatswords with the holy sword spell just because she can get a little more dps. I don't want to see her using a long sword because it's the only option a Holy Avenger comes in. GIVE US A REASON TO KEEP TRUE TO THE LORE OF THE UNDYING COURT!!!!