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DoctorWhofan
11-04-2008, 12:57 PM
Did it last nite, PuG elite run.


FAR more exciting, I died, all the clerics died, butwe got it done. It was most amusing the last of the elementals followed the puzzle guys and we keep getting tossed at the chests.

Everyone was amused, noone got mad, we had fun, and two pieces of raid loot (I got the bracers which I gave to one of the other casters, I had better on)

The elemental change is fine. A PuG could handle it (there was not three people from any one guild and I knew only two others in the party, and not very well.)

advice:

Be prepared to have your clerics on the ground. Clerics are notorious for not having a balance (or jump or swim or running ability for that matter) andthey were being tossed like salad. by now, If you walk in there WITHOUT self healing, there is no hope for you anyways.

My sorcerer (and a Wizzy) put up extended dancing balls and I max/extend (my only metamagics) firewalls when the elementals showed up. Exchanging a feat for spell pen and spell pen items helped ALOT. We managed to corral over half the elementals. Allowing the one ofthe clerics and the third caster to destruct/FoD.

THe main tank (Ironically a survivor) managed to hold aggro almost the whole time. I didn't ask for his build but while the Reaver was running around alot more than normal, he managed to drag him back away from the rest of the party.

The Reaver hits HARD. I was at full health (218) and trying to get a charge, he hit me for 220 pts then hit me for 106 points in one hit.

Walk in have a plan, not alot of buffing, just the basics and mass buffs, and do it. That is how it happened last nite.

Was it harder? YES. Was it TOO HARD? No. a PuG filled with 14-15s could do it, guild runs should be cake.

frugal_gourmet
11-04-2008, 02:16 PM
I'm somewhat surprised they decided to make a radical change instead of a few careful ones bit by bit.

That the Reaver was too easy to be fun was a pretty common thought.

However, it is very easy to go too far in the opposite direction too.

DoctorWhofan
11-04-2008, 02:19 PM
I'm somewhat surprised they decided to make a radical change instead of a few careful ones bit by bit.

That the Reaver was too easy to be fun was a pretty common thought.

However, it is very easy to go too far in the opposite direction too.

True, but I have to say that the ele's were NOT as hard as everyone made them out to be. DOOMM!!! wasn't needed. Just caution.

DoctorWhofan
11-04-2008, 02:21 PM
I disagree with your sediments. Reaver before had XP = to difficulty, not it is just utterly updurd. Persoanly I wish all people who complain about the game they way it was sould die the second the hit post in these fourms. They are ruining a good thing.

I have no clue what you are saying.

frugal_gourmet
11-04-2008, 02:25 PM
True, but I have to say that the ele's were NOT as hard as everyone made them out to be. DOOMM!!! wasn't needed. Just caution.

Ok. I haven't been in since the change. I guess I was reacting to everyone else's freak out. Maybe the change wasn't that radical.

MrCow
11-04-2008, 02:26 PM
I have to say that the ele's were NOT as hard as everyone made them out to be. DOOMM!!! wasn't needed.

I agree. The air elementals are only hard to those who are still stuck in the mindset that instant-death to the air elementals is still the answer. I've been taking them down with Wall of Fire for the past module or two and the only thing I really noticed is the Air Elemental Guards have double the HP from the previous Elder Air Elementals. Other than that (and the fact that the only elementals are now air elementals) its still the same ol' raid for me.

maddmatt70
11-04-2008, 02:30 PM
Good old axer 2-3 mods ago would just run out and fireball and the delayed blast fireball the elementals to death. He would get all the kills and wouldn't use a single instakill..

Ringos
11-04-2008, 02:47 PM
Yes, overall a change in strategy will get your to the chests. I must, however, ask folks such as MrCow:

On NORMAL...what % of the time should a Destruction (from a Cleric with 2 Necro Feats) land on on Air Ele? How about a Finger from a 16 Wiz (with 1 necro feat)? I understand Elite and all, but pretty much 0% of the time on Normal seems fishy.

DoctorWhofan
11-04-2008, 02:49 PM
I agree. The air elementals are only hard to those who are still stuck in the mindset that instant-death to the air elementals is still the answer. I've been taking them down with Wall of Fire for the past module or two and the only thing I really noticed is the Air Elemental Guards have double the HP from the previous Elder Air Elementals. Other than that (and the fact that the only elementals are now air elementals) its still the same ol' raid for me.


True. Kleo (my 15 sorcerer) is an AoE caster, even though she has FoD. Also, Enevation seemed to work, too. THe tanks not on the Reaver were getting kills.


Ok. I haven't been in since the change. I guess I was reacting to everyone else's freak out. Maybe the change wasn't that radical.

Well, I try to reserve my judgment until I do thequest. HoX was maybe too hard in it's changes, I think that the Reaver is about right.


Good old axer 2-3 mods ago would just run out and fireball and the delayed blast fireball the elementals to death. He would get all the kills and wouldn't use a single instakill..

lol!

Again, I am an old school AoE caster. But I understand where you are coming from.

Freeman
11-04-2008, 02:50 PM
On NORMAL...what % of the time should a Destruction (from a Cleric with 2 Necro Feats) land on on Air Ele? How about a Finger from a 16 Wiz (with 1 necro feat)? I understand Elite and all, but pretty much 0% of the time on Normal seems fishy.

The Reaver has a Normal setting? When did this happen??? :eek:

MrCow
11-04-2008, 02:51 PM
On NORMAL...what % of the time should a Destruction (from a Cleric with 2 Necro Feats) land on on Air Ele? How about a Finger from a 16 Wiz (with 1 necro feat)? I understand Elite and all, but pretty much 0% of the time on Normal seems fishy.

Air Elemental Guards are a relatively new monster, so I don't know this information. Chances are they are like Masterwork Flesh Golems and just have a rather unfathomable fortitude save that no where near matches their CON score, HD-based saves, or difficulty setting.

Too bad the Air Elemental Guards aren't like the Vampire Knights in the Orchard, who have a will save 9 lower than they should. :p

DoctorWhofan
11-04-2008, 02:51 PM
Yes, overall a change in strategy will get your to the chests. I must, however, ask folks such as MrCow:

On NORMAL...what % of the time should a Destruction (from a Cleric with 2 Necro Feats) land on on Air Ele? How about a Finger from a 16 Wiz (with 1 necro feat)? I understand Elite and all, but pretty much 0% of the time on Normal seems fishy.

Depends on the roll. And other items that the said caster was wearing/holding. But the guys I was running with were killing some. Not a lot, but some with instakills, both clerical and caster.


FYI to all, the frequency I do raids is very horrible. Put that in with my OP.

Taelan
11-04-2008, 08:18 PM
Ok, so we finish the raid with tons of elementals left over after solving the puzzle. As has been noted by others in this thread the elementals followed us out to the chests. Unfortunately, we had nearly twenty of them running around. The majority of our party was unable to even get their loot out of the chests, the main reason for running the raid, because of all the tossing around that the elementals were doing.

Would it be unreasonable to ask that the elementals be removed from the area upon completion of the raid. This could even be explained in setting terms as they were being summoned by the Stormreaver and the device and once it is shut off, they are released back to their home plane.

I know that people say that you should be able to complete this raid even with the new elemental guards being as tough to instakill as they are. And we were able to complete it, but shouldn't we be allowed to acquire our rewards from the chests? Is that too much to ask?

Junts
11-04-2008, 09:04 PM
With one tactical adjustment HoX is still pretty easy, though elite may be different.

Just use two dogs instead of 3, no stone issues, doesn't even seem to take longer (does may do more damage to her).

Just a bit less forgiving if your clerics are inexperienced, laggy or bad and let a dog die, as your 3rd dog will be getting killed by your party and you may not have a spare.

But otherwise its not any different

QuantumFX
11-04-2008, 09:53 PM
So can you actually get all the non casters involved in the raid by being able to melee the Air Eles? (Like you can in P&P)

BurningDownTheHouse
11-05-2008, 12:08 AM
As far as i'm concerned the reaver was a 15 minutes loot run with a chance at +3 tome.
Now it takes longer and so, less desirable. It's not like after 300~ completions somthing can really make it fun for me to play anymore, this should have been done after the first NORMAL solo achievement. Then it just might have held some interest till now, not being an easy cakewalk and all.
BTW, did anyone notice if they upped the XP for it? Forgot to check.

Naso24
11-05-2008, 12:48 AM
I don't have a problem with the new changes. It is a bit more challenging, but I'm sure with time, new tactics will be developed that make it easier. Overall, more people will be active in this quest than in the past.

I have not done the raid on my caster, but here are a few ideas...

Fear
Symbol of Fear
Dancing Sphere
Mind Fog
Enervation
Heightened Finger of Death with Spell Focus/Gtr Spell Focus Necromancy
Firewall
Delayed Blast Fireball

Keep the whole party hasted
Keep the whole party with recitation
Refresh mass protection

Debuff the reaver as always:
Prayer
Curse
Ray of Enfeeblement
Ray of Exhaustion
Waves of Exhaustion
Waves of Fatigue
Symbol of Pain
Symbol of Weakness
Bane

Uska
11-05-2008, 12:55 AM
I disagree with your sediments. Reaver before had XP = to difficulty, not it is just utterly updurd. Persoanly I wish all people who complain about the game they way it was sould die the second the hit post in these fourms. They are ruining a good thing.

Disagree with you its still pretty easy even on elite and no our party wasnt geared beyond belief we only had one caster a wf sorc 3 clerics and yeah I spent sometime on my back but with bb going and tosing destruct around we did fine on elite and had no deaths and before the xp>difficulty now I think its xp=difficulty.

RTN
11-05-2008, 12:56 AM
I agree with OP. More challenging and fun, but still very doable, even for a PUG. But you can fail now if people aren't prepared. I rather like that for a L14 raid that is almost always run on elite. Before you had to try to fail.

I think the elemental will saves were higher. It seemed to me that they went through my heightened dancing balls w/ mindfog more than they used to do.

Strakeln
11-05-2008, 01:01 AM
Maybe it's just me, but I think the Reaver was just about perfect before the last time they tinkered with it... remember, there used to be more elementals, but then they took a lot of them out and it became a snorefest?

Less Tinkering, More Content. If I had a fifth line in my sig, that'd be it. :)

xman26
11-05-2008, 01:12 AM
Disagree with you its still pretty easy even on elite and no our party wasnt geared beyond belief we only had one caster a wf sorc 3 clerics and yeah I spent sometime on my back but with bb going and tosing destruct around we did fine on elite and had no deaths and before the xp>difficulty now I think its xp=difficulty.


Sorry totally disagree. When Reaver first hit, you could get 15k XP on leet, then they nerfed to 7k and it was fairly easy. Now it is harder than Madstone on leet with less then half the XP.

DoctorWhofan
11-05-2008, 01:17 AM
Ok, so we finish the raid with tons of elementals left over after solving the puzzle. As has been noted by others in this thread the elementals followed us out to the chests. Unfortunately, we had nearly twenty of them running around. The majority of our party was unable to even get their loot out of the chests, the main reason for running the raid, because of all the tossing around that the elementals were doing.

Would it be unreasonable to ask that the elementals be removed from the area upon completion of the raid. This could even be explained in setting terms as they were being summoned by the Stormreaver and the device and once it is shut off, they are released back to their home plane.

I know that people say that you should be able to complete this raid even with the new elemental guards being as tough to instakill as they are. And we were able to complete it, but shouldn't we be allowed to acquire our rewards from the chests? Is that too much to ask?

THat's a good idea. actually.

DoctorWhofan
11-05-2008, 01:19 AM
Maybe it's just me, but I think the Reaver was just about perfect before the last time they tinkered with it... remember, there used to be more elementals, but then they took a lot of them out and it became a snorefest?

Less Tinkering, More Content. If I had a fifth line in my sig, that'd be it. :)

yeah, now it's not a snorefest.

DoctorWhofan
11-05-2008, 01:19 AM
Sorry totally disagree. When Reaver first hit, you could get 15k XP on leet, then they nerfed to 7k and it was fairly easy. Now it is harder than Madstone on leet with less then half the XP.

I disagree, it is still easier than Madstone on elite.

noinfo
11-05-2008, 01:22 AM
Did it last nite, PuG elite run.


FAR more exciting, I died, all the clerics died, butwe got it done. It was most amusing the last of the elementals followed the puzzle guys and we keep getting tossed at the chests.

Everyone was amused, noone got mad, we had fun, and two pieces of raid loot (I got the bracers which I gave to one of the other casters, I had better on)

The elemental change is fine. A PuG could handle it (there was not three people from any one guild and I knew only two others in the party, and not very well.)

advice:

Be prepared to have your clerics on the ground. Clerics are notorious for not having a balance (or jump or swim or running ability for that matter) andthey were being tossed like salad. by now, If you walk in there WITHOUT self healing, there is no hope for you anyways.

My sorcerer (and a Wizzy) put up extended dancing balls and I max/extend (my only metamagics) firewalls when the elementals showed up. Exchanging a feat for spell pen and spell pen items helped ALOT. We managed to corral over half the elementals. Allowing the one ofthe clerics and the third caster to destruct/FoD.

THe main tank (Ironically a survivor) managed to hold aggro almost the whole time. I didn't ask for his build but while the Reaver was running around alot more than normal, he managed to drag him back away from the rest of the party.

The Reaver hits HARD. I was at full health (218) and trying to get a charge, he hit me for 220 pts then hit me for 106 points in one hit.

Walk in have a plan, not alot of buffing, just the basics and mass buffs, and do it. That is how it happened last nite.

Was it harder? YES. Was it TOO HARD? No. a PuG filled with 14-15s could do it, guild runs should be cake.

It always good when people enjoy the change to a RAID. I personally think this change was a garbage brute force modification that just reduced it to a DPS fest. With just a little thought or looking at the suggestions on the forums it could have been far more interesting rather than reverting to the same strategy that is often used leveling up.

More interesting? only because it gives others something to do, get charge and then just swing away (keeping away from spikes) no a whole lot more interesting but still.

Not sure how spell pen helps you in here as nothing i know of has SR.

Glad you enjoyed it, I think it is a very poor brute force fix and while I don't think it is a very difficult quest even with the changes but seriously making it harder by just upping the save/hp and ac? Pretty sad, but each to their own.

BurningDownTheHouse
11-05-2008, 01:26 AM
I disagree, it is still easier than Madstone on elite.

Never tried, but don't see why i wouldn't be able to solo madstone on elite on my caster, if i wanted to.

Not sure i can say it for this new reaver, unless i get VERY lucky.
i.e. that achivement post i don't feel like looking for right now.

noinfo
11-05-2008, 01:27 AM
I disagree, it is still easier than Madstone on elite.

Dunno about that neither is particulary but Madstone is a bit more interesting and has a far better ballance.

DoctorWhofan
11-05-2008, 01:30 AM
It always good when people enjoy the change to a RAID. I personally think this change was a garbage brute force modification that just reduced it to a DPS fest. With just a little thought or looking at the suggestions on the forums it could have been far more interesting rather than reverting to the same strategy that is often used leveling up.

More interesting? only because it gives others something to do, get charge and then just swing away (keeping away from spikes) no a whole lot more interesting but still.

Not sure how spell pen helps you in here as nothing i know of has SR.

Glad you enjoyed it, I think it is a very poor brute force fix and while I don't think it is a very difficult quest even with the changes but seriously making it harder by just upping the save/hp and ac? Pretty sad, but each to their own.


well, yeah, there could have been other ways to do it, but it is here, and this is what we are living with. Ironically, several of the tanks got kills.

This was in response to all the DOOM! about the Reaver. People were quitting over it! So I tried it on elite run with my Sorcerer, a secondary toon who happens to be flagged. There was no reason for the doom and gloom. It is beatable, unlike the Abbott. You just have to put some effort into it.

noinfo
11-05-2008, 01:30 AM
[QUOTE=Strakeln;1919129]Maybe it's just me, but I think the Reaver was just about perfect before the last time they tinkered with it... remember, there used to be more elementals, but then they took a lot of them out and it became a snorefest?
...QUOTE]

Higher spawn rates and varied mobs that include difficult to insta kill mobs like earth ele's?

No that would be interesting.

xman26
11-05-2008, 01:31 AM
I disagree, it is still easier than Madstone on elite.

Sorry, disagree hugely. Guilds runs Madstone leet in under 20m,reaver takes more than that and is agrevaiting as hell for a short quest where as Madstone oyu run all over creation.

DoctorWhofan
11-05-2008, 01:33 AM
Dunno about that neither is particulary but Madstone is a bit more interesting and has a far better ballance.

And alot more chances of mistakes and party wipes. Granted, my clerics stay on their feet, it is alot more clericing to be done in Madstone, than in Reaver. Mass heal, Mass heal, or! Mass heal. Jeez, we don't even get to raise dead for a change.

noinfo
11-05-2008, 01:36 AM
well, yeah, there could have been other ways to do it, but it is here, and this is what we are living with. Ironically, several of the tanks got kills.

This was in response to all the DOOM! about the Reaver. People were quitting over it! So I tried it on elite run with my Sorcerer, a secondary toon who happens to be flagged. There was no reason for the doom and gloom. It is beatable, unlike the Abbott. You just have to put some effort into it.

Quiting over it is a bit extreme. While I have given up running it regulary ages ago the change has done nothing for me wanting to do it more, quite the reverse. There are so many other quests that are just DPS fests to choose from. It doesn't surprise me that several tanks got kills but then some of my tanks were able to get kills before the change, ie get charge and use wounders, np.

Beatable but in my opinion if you are going to make a change then make it interesting. While people can argue that you can make it interesting by doing this and that, well you could have before this change too. The most likely solution is a combo of firewall, fogs, webs and blade barrier.

noinfo
11-05-2008, 01:38 AM
And alot more chances of mistakes and party wipes. Granted, my clerics stay on their feet, it is alot more clericing to be done in Madstone, than in Reaver. Mass heal, Mass heal, or! Mass heal. Jeez, we don't even get to raise dead for a change.

You forgot greater command, blade barrier and comet fall :-p

DoctorWhofan
11-05-2008, 01:38 AM
Sorry, disagree hugely. Guilds runs Madstone leet in under 20m,reaver takes more than that and is agrevaiting as hell for a short quest where as Madstone oyu run all over creation.

First of all, I was in a PuG.

Second of all, though I was not playing a cleric, I usually do. Reaver in the past was Mass Heal, yawn!, Mass heal! yawn. Destruction. Full Heal. wake me up when it's over. Madstone was NEVER that.

Third, I dispise one room quests. However, with all the whining on the forums, an oppurtunity to get in a PuG Elite run of the Reaver came up. This was the results.

Forth, If you are worried about XP at this point...Reaver has never been the quest for XP.

DoctorWhofan
11-05-2008, 01:40 AM
Quiting over it is a bit extreme. While I have given up running it regulary ages ago the change has done nothing for me wanting to do it more, quite the reverse. There are so many other quests that are just DPS fests to choose from. It doesn't surprise me that several tanks got kills but then some of my tanks were able to get kills before the change, ie get charge and use wounders, np.

Beatable but in my opinion if you are going to make a change then make it interesting. While people can argue that you can make it interesting by doing this and that, well you could have before this change too. The most likely solution is a combo of firewall, fogs, webs and blade barrier.

Point. Just saidthe change was more interesting than sleeping in the corner.

DoctorWhofan
11-05-2008, 01:40 AM
You forgot greater command, blade barrier and comet fall :-p

bah! UBER CLERICS don't use wussy spells! :p;):D

BurningDownTheHouse
11-05-2008, 01:41 AM
The most likely solution is a combo of firewall, fogs, WEBS and blade barrier.

Do these work on air eles???
And you forgot dancing balls.

xman26
11-05-2008, 01:44 AM
First of all, I was in a PuG.

Second of all, though I was not playing a cleric, I usually do. Reaver in the past was Mass Heal, yawn!, Mass heal! yawn. Destruction. Full Heal. wake me up when it's over. Madstone was NEVER that.

Third, I dispise one room quests. However, with all the whining on the forums, an oppurtunity to get in a PuG Elite run of the Reaver came up. This was the results.

Forth, If you are worried about XP at this point...Reaver has never been the quest for XP.

First wanna cookie?
Second, wanna cookie?
Third, happy for you, doesn't make the changes they keep doing to this game the right ones because of cry babies who get bored, can't figure out how to zerg to 16 in 7days or whatever else they have nerfed because of them.
Forth, not worried about XP at, simply stating a fact that before, with the ran x times reduction, you got what reaver was worth XP wise, now it aint even worth running for all the hassle it brings. Again the Devs thinking with what appears to be the best part of their bodies, their @$$es.

DoctorWhofan
11-05-2008, 01:47 AM
First wanna cookie?
Second, wanna cookie?
Third, happy for you, doesn't make the changes they keep doing to this game the right ones because of cry babies who get bored, can't figure out how to zerg to 16 in 7days or whatever else they have nerfed because of them.
Forth, not worried about XP at, simply stating a fact that before, with the ran x times reduction, you got what reaver was worth XP wise, now it aint even worth running for all the hassle it brings. Again the Devs thinking with what appears to be the best part of their bodies, their @$$es.

Ok, your opinion. You are looking at XP per minute. I am not. In that regard, you are right. However, most people don't play that way.

DoctorWhofan
11-05-2008, 01:48 AM
Do these work on air eles???
And you forgot dancing balls.

Funny, my Sorcerer never dropped that. Too much fun to cast in dead parts of quests.

DANCE PARTY!!!!!!

noinfo
11-05-2008, 01:51 AM
Do these work on air eles???
And you forgot dancing balls.

I know, was just too lazy to edit when I realised it :-p

Pretty sure web works but with all the other cc floating around who knows.

DoctorWhofan
11-05-2008, 01:53 AM
I know, was just too lazy to edit when I realised it :-p

Pretty sure web works but with all the other cc floating around who knows.

Special effects?

Uska
11-05-2008, 01:56 AM
Sorry totally disagree. When Reaver first hit, you could get 15k XP on leet, then they nerfed to 7k and it was fairly easy. Now it is harder than Madstone on leet with less then half the XP.

Please I never die in reaver unless I accidently get sent to the spikes, in Madstone on elite I die maybe 1 out of 4 times sometimes more if the party isnt up to par, this is only any of my guys that do those quests.

noinfo
11-05-2008, 01:56 AM
Special effects?
Yep all over 1 area made it a bit hard to know for sure as in the end most were dancing anyway but there was a lot of fog/firewalls/webs/etc

DoctorWhofan
11-05-2008, 01:59 AM
Please I never die in reaver unless I accidently get sent to the spikes, in Madstone on elite I die maybe 1 out of 4 times sometimes more if the party isnt up to par, this is only any of my guys that do those quests.

Agreed.

This time, I got hit twice with the Reaver's bigggggg stick. I was in a skirt with horrid reflexes.

cest' la vie.

xman26
11-05-2008, 02:00 AM
Ok, your opinion. You are looking at XP per minute. I am not. In that regard, you are right. However, most people don't play that way.

I wasn't even looking at it that way. To me, I look at it from a stand point time invested vs reward. Unlike the vast majority of people who are on these boards and in game, I play on average 10 hours a week, 5 hrs each friday and saturday night. That is all, and it sickens me that the devs continuely listen to people who do nothing but cry about thing I mentioned before. I'm sorry, eitehr deal with the game the way it is, figure it or wait for new content. Either way, they'd stop ruining a good game for the casual gamer who can't invest 80+hrs a week into playing the game, let alone 20, 30 or 40 hours. Hell Titan is a **** run because the damn end chest drop rate sucks so damn bad that once people get what they have been looking for for months, they stop running it. Again, something the result of cry babies. Between 4 toons who are Titan flagged and 30+ runs over 2 years, I've pulled 0 items on any of them. The last 4 Titans I have been in have had 0 raid loot.

Uska
11-05-2008, 02:01 AM
Agreed.

This time, I got hit twice with the Reaver's bigggggg stick. I was in a skirt with horrid reflexes.

cest' la vie.

Yeah I have seen casters get done in that way once or twice its just bad luck and can happen even easier in madstone.

xman26
11-05-2008, 02:03 AM
Please I never die in reaver unless I accidently get sent to the spikes, in Madstone on elite I die maybe 1 out of 4 times sometimes more if the party isnt up to par, this is only any of my guys that do those quests.


With my capped fighter, I haven't died running Madstone the last 15 times thru it helping fellow guildies get favor, once in ten with my rog/ftr and damn near always with my squishy wizzy.

Uska
11-05-2008, 02:10 AM
With my capped fighter, I haven't died running Madstone the last 15 times thru it helping fellow guildies get favor, once in ten with my rog/ftr and damn near always with my squishy wizzy.

We will just have to disagree the reaver takes less time for me even now and is easier and still more fun for me then madstone I have always hated that one.

DoctorWhofan
11-05-2008, 02:11 AM
I wasn't even looking at it that way. To me, I look at it from a stand point time invested vs reward. Unlike the vast majority of people who are on these boards and in game, I play on average 10 hours a week, 5 hrs each friday and saturday night. That is all, and it sickens me that the devs continuely listen to people who do nothing but cry about thing I mentioned before. I'm sorry, eitehr deal with the game the way it is, figure it or wait for new content. Either way, they'd stop ruining a good game for the casual gamer who can't invest 80+hrs a week into playing the game, let alone 20, 30 or 40 hours. Hell Titan is a **** run because the damn end chest drop rate sucks so damn bad that once people get what they have been looking for for months, they stop running it. Again, something the result of cry babies. Between 4 toons who are Titan flagged and 30+ runs over 2 years, I've pulled 0 items on any of them. The last 4 Titans I have been in have had 0 raid loot.

you said it was a loot run. It isn't suppose to be. It's supposed to be a quest. Ok, a one room quest (poor example of one) but in Turbine's standards, a quest, particularly a raid. They are suppose to be hard and take time. Not sleeping in the corner and waiting for the chance of getting raid loot.

The Way they changed it can be up for an argument, but right now, it isn't that horrid, didn't take that much longer, andwas still fun, for a bunch of PuGgers.

Madstone, more deaths, more time, less uber loot (which I don't care about btw) and decent xp. If I liked the quest, I'd do it more. Time it next time you do the Reaver, then do a Madstone.

Ringos
11-05-2008, 10:02 AM
I would be interested to see what the findings of people throwing Finger/PK/Destruction are on Normal. I've only done the Reaver 2x since the change, one Elite and one Normal. Elite: No landing insta-kills. Hey, that seems about right. Normal: Seemed like the same thing. I tried a lot less myself, and I never checked with the arcanes to see what they found. I know I didn't SEE any landing.

Overall, adjusting tactics will make it managable...no big deal. It just seems that Normal should be more 'normal' and it should scale accordingly.

As far as having stuff left while people loot the chest...if folks would just keep the fight up until the enemy is totally defeated, we wouldn't have people dying while others are looting and recalling. :)

rimble
11-05-2008, 10:29 AM
you said it was a loot run. It isn't suppose to be. It's supposed to be a quest. Ok, a one room quest (poor example of one) but in Turbine's standards, a quest, particularly a raid. They are suppose to be hard and take time. Not sleeping in the corner and waiting for the chance of getting raid loot.

There's absolutely no harm in having a nice mid-level 'gimme' raid for the more casual less uber players out there to feel like they can get a piece of some nice equipment. It's not like it was causing a game-wrecking influx of +3 Tomes or other unbalancing Raid loot. Heck, I'd argue putting the Icy Raiment in the Subterrane was worse than having an easy Reaver run.

DoctorWhofan
11-05-2008, 10:35 AM
There's absolutely no harm in having a nice mid-level 'gimme' raid for the more casual less uber players out there to feel like they can get a piece of some nice equipment. It's not like it was causing a game-wrecking influx of +3 Tomes or other unbalancing Raid loot. Heck, I'd argue putting the Icy Raiment in the Subterrane was worse than having an easy Reaver run.

The problem was, it wasn't that hard.


And I agree, the Icy Raiment thing was a bad Idea.