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View Full Version : Yet another MOD 8 Analysis Thread



Samadhi
11-03-2008, 10:11 AM
Best Aspect - Visual aspects of both new and some revamped lowbie stuff is very cool. Kudos to the folks making things look cool.

NPE - Character Gen. Not my thing, but I can see how it would be much simpler for someone just looking to jump on and start playing. I would seriously rethink the starting con on many of the specialty builds, however, but overall I could see the usefulness of this in general for a newer player.

NPE - Quests. I know for myself, one of the main things I wanted to do when starting to play the game was solo quests while I learned how to maneuver my character. Two and a half years ago, I still remember almost quitting when my bard died three times in a row in the same quest. To test the new area, I created a new squishy on a new server. While it isn't possible for me to forget all of my DDO knowledge, this was the closest I could get to truly testing it. There are several problems with the new NPE that actually make it much worse than the previous one:
a) One long quest chain - why is it necessary for me to complete EVERY SINGLE QUEST on Korthos before I can move elsewhere? This is not intuitive, and even on Risia I commented that at one point I got lost in the quest advancement and could not get the next quest to spawn. Additionally, if I see an LFM for "Lvl 2-4 WW" and that is the only thing my level - wow does it suck that I can't join because I'm not flagged to leave the island yet. I think this addition was made to slow platfarmers, but regardless of the rationale it is BAD. I still remember the first time I tried to join an STK group - and got booted because I didn't know what WW was (ie I hadn't "flagged" for the harbor yet). Now we have half the lowbie quests mandatory?? No thanks. Additionally, what if there is one quest that just cannot be beat solo by my build. My lvl 1 sorc died or failed 3 times on the new "protect the Cannith crystal (solo difficulty)" or whatever it is called. In the old harbor, I could skip this frustrating quest and move on. In the new area, I MUST beat this quest to continue my progression.
b) Wow have there been some increases in the number of mobs and HP of said mobs on SOLO difficulty. Trying to play a non-tank through a lvl 1 quest on solo has never been so hard. Who thought this was a good idea?

New High Level Quests - overall I really like these quests. They are original and, on normal, doable by a mediocre party without too much difficulty - while elite remains tricky or resource intensive for those not maxed out. I really got to question the protect the white dragon quest though. This quest, as far as I can tell, is impossible to complete the first time through it. It requires a couple times through to learn the maze. This is very poor quest design. It should be possible, maybe not easy, but possible to complete any quest the first time through. Requiring a timed maze - that will be meaningless once everyone learns it - but prevents any first time completions is not logical.

Crafting - I kind of like that you can get "something useful" with much much less effort than in the shroud - where you must farm for a while before you can build anything at all. Will there be people complaining in a month because they have ran the quest 70+ times and still can't get ______ on their armor? Oh ya. My metagame outlook is still that crafting should be relegated to armor appearance and the like only - but I do think the fact that it is POSSIBLE I can get something useful on my armor - the first time through - is a big improvement over the shroud.

Weird bugs - zoning in to see no floors, repeatedly, over and over again - very strange audio clicking, and noise volume fading loud and quiet again. Wow... to the best of my memory, I would have to say this MOD wins for the most bug-filled one yet.

Biggest Complaint - HOW IS FOUR QUESTS CONSIDERED A MOD??? Seriously, if you look at the desert or gianthold, those were MODS. There was a significant influx of content. I almost think the view is to make things "too epic," so that we have long really cool quests - but when there are only four of them who really cares. At least in the desert or gianthold, maybe you didn't like every quest out there, but there were plenty of options for you to run the ones you did like. The person making these development decisions should seriously rethink their outlook while there are still people here playing.

Reisz
11-03-2008, 10:26 AM
Biggest Complaint - HOW IS FOUR QUESTS CONSIDERED A MOD??? Seriously, if you look at the desert or gianthold, those were MODS. There was a significant influx of content. I almost think the view is to make things "too epic," so that we have long really cool quests - but when there are only four of them who really cares. At least in the desert or gianthold, maybe you didn't like every quest out there, but there were plenty of options for you to run the ones you did like. The person making these development decisions should seriously rethink their outlook while there are still people here playing.

I kinda agree. This seemed more like 7.1 for NPE and 7.2 Dragontouched Armor.

Tharlak
11-03-2008, 11:02 AM
NPE -
Additionally, if I see an LFM for "Lvl 2-4 WW" and that is the only thing my level - wow does it suck that I can't join because I'm not flagged to leave the island yet.




I have been running two chars through the NPE as well and what is worse than seeing the 2-4 WW LFM is seeing Korthos 1-3 or Korthos Explorer and NOT BEING ABLE TO JOIN THE QUEST. How will a new player EVER understand why they can not join an LFM that they meet (based on the LFM) all requirements for. I read the forums and still do not understand why my character who is NOT IN THE SNOW INSTANCE can not join an LFM that says Korthos Quests to Elite non snow instance.

Bring the Plat farmers back if necessary, but do not create more confusion in, of all places, the New Player Area.

Mindspat
11-03-2008, 11:22 AM
NPE - Quests.
a) One long quest chain - why is it necessary for me to complete EVERY SINGLE QUEST on Korthos before I can move elsewhere? This is not intuitive, and even on Risia I commented that at one point I got lost in the quest advancement and could not get the next quest to spawn. Additionally, if I see an LFM for "Lvl 2-4 WW" and that is the only thing my level - wow does it suck that I can't join because I'm not flagged to leave the island yet. I think this addition was made to slow platfarmers, but regardless of the rationale it is BAD. I still remember the first time I tried to join an STK group - and got booted because I didn't know what WW was (ie I hadn't "flagged" for the harbor yet). Now we have half the lowbie quests mandatory?? No thanks. Additionally, what if there is one quest that just cannot be beat solo by my build. My lvl 1 sorc died or failed 3 times on the new "protect the Cannith crystal (solo difficulty)" or whatever it is called. In the old harbor, I could skip this frustrating quest and move on. In the new area, I MUST beat this quest to continue my progression.

Biggest Complaint - HOW IS FOUR QUESTS CONSIDERED A MOD??? Seriously, if you look at the desert or gianthold, those were MODS. There was a significant influx of content. I almost think the view is to make things "too epic," so that we have long really cool quests - but when there are only four of them who really cares. At least in the desert or gianthold, maybe you didn't like every quest out there, but there were plenty of options for you to run the ones you did like. The person making these development decisions should seriously rethink their outlook while there are still people here playing.

This is the best example of Short Term Memory Loss I've seen on the forums. :D

Too bad there's a vocal minority of thick headed users who either fail to identify or flat out refuse to acknowledge additions to the game. It's hard to comment further without being condecending. :(

GlassCannon
11-03-2008, 11:26 AM
MOD 8 was a total heads-down remodel of the DDO universe.

Stop complaining that everything isn't how it was back in Beta and enjoy the game.


I like it, but don't like obscene HP totals in the higher level stuff... makes it hard to beat them down without nuking/using CON damage/bringing 2 Barbarian TWF Heavy Pick DPS builds along. On this note, the Dragons in Prey on the Hunter are hard to take on if you want the egg chests... should they take 12 minutes to kill?

Dirac
11-03-2008, 01:25 PM
I really got to question the protect the white dragon quest though. This quest, as far as I can tell, is impossible to complete the first time through it. It requires a couple times through to learn the maze. This is very poor quest design. It should be possible, maybe not easy, but possible to complete any quest the first time through. Requiring a timed maze - that will be meaningless once everyone learns it - but prevents any first time completions is not logical.



I want to second this in a big way. I have just started trying the new content. Last night we had a good group exploring the cold area. I loved it! The graphics and encounters; everything was awesome. We decide to do the quest; no one had completed it previously. We're going through, killing most everything (first time and all); but again having a blast. We enter the maze section, talk a minute to figure out what we're suppose to do, make our way through, look around a bit, and BAM - quest failure! Are you kidding? We tried it again; just ran through the first part, but still had no chance to make it through the maze. What was, up to that point, a really good time turned negative and I left the game angry.

Is it really going to affect me? No, of course not. I spent the next hour reading the spoiler thread, so I'll get it the next time. Eventually, it will be no problem for me. What about the people who are coming back to check DDO out again? What about the people for whom that was the one night of questing they'll get for a couple weeks? Why on earth would you make a quest where you are guaranteed to fail the first time you enter.

I used to harp on this a lot, but I'd like to emphasize it again. A quest on Normal should be doable by four level appropriate characters run by competent adults without ever having seen the quest before.

The_Ick
11-03-2008, 02:00 PM
MOD 8 was a total heads-down remodel of the DDO universe.


Can you elaborate please? I am really curious to hear the justification behind this statement?

Bogenbroom
11-04-2008, 03:02 PM
I think, with each of the last two mods, we have been seeing some significant development into game aspects other than quests. With Mod 7 it was Monks, and Mod 8 it was a couple of things, first a lot of time was spent on redoing the lowest level stuff and Korthos, but I am sure a LOT of time went into hirelings... we just haven't been able to see the fruits of that yet.

Also, there is a good amount of "Adventure Area" in this Mod, which is, in my mind, something that needs to be scaled back on. I love the adventure areas, but quests (even straight forward quests) need some face time.

However, quests are a little on the pointless side at the moment, and probably will be until the cap is raised again. I think quests and XP/leveling go hand in hand. With high end characters generally capped the focus is on loot and things to do other than XP. Just my take though.

Point being, I would bet that the next time we get a cap raise we will probably see a good number of quests come with that.

Cyr
11-04-2008, 09:33 PM
I kinda agree. This seemed more like 7.1 for NPE and 7.2 Dragontouched Armor.

QFT, this is not a mod. This was our monthly update a year and a half ago.