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Korlia
09-23-2008, 06:16 PM
Alright, I've tried to do some searches on google and so forth, but I would like some up front opinions. My younger sister has a hamster that unfortunately is dying. With a suggest from my father he says to stick the hamster in a bag and let it die, stick it back in the cage and when my sister wakes up will think it died because of its illness. However I'm one of those people... who can't do that.
I know that if you for example get an overdose of carbon monoxide you basically get tired and fall asleep and die because of no oxygen, so it's not exactly painful...but then again being in a bag of air and dying, I'm not sure if that's equivalent.

So that's my question...
Would being tied in a bag and losing oxygen, be the same as a carbon monoxide death?

Lithic
09-23-2008, 06:20 PM
That poor poor hamster...

But no, suffocation and CO poisoning are NOT the same thing. Suffocation has you gasping for air, and would likely be rather unpleasant to say the least. Get it euthanized at your local vet if you've decided its time.

Beherit_Baphomar
09-23-2008, 06:30 PM
I hit rodents with a large greataxe...or possibly finger of death...depends what character Im on.

As for your hamster, take it to the vet man. If its time to go put it to sleep...dont go whacking on it or suffocating it...jeesh.

Korlia
09-23-2008, 06:42 PM
Well thats the problem, I would take it to the vet, but as a college student i really don't have the funds to drop 100 bucks on the hamster after paying the school all im worth in out of state tuition, and it being her hamster doesn't want it dead (its her first pet...)
And parents don't want to spend 100 bucks either on putting it down.
We were hit with Ike so we're not necessarily in the best situation, (i know not an excuse), but I guess i'll call every vet in this area to ask if they could be kind enough to donate a needle and some drops of liquid to euthanize the hamster.

I love animals very much, so I would never kill one, I've literally had or "owned" animals since I was born, so they're my soft spot.

faldordadink
09-23-2008, 06:45 PM
just curious, can't you let nature take its course or is it suffering?

Korlia
09-23-2008, 06:58 PM
well I guess I can relay the whole story. She's a cute pancake golden hamster, and my sister named it after me....eh...which i changed it's name to pancake...
Well it was fine, and then one day my sister showed me her, and it wasn't fat anymore, and it had poor balance and everything. It has diarrhea and its green (ew) which means basically that it's not digesting properly, and she's losing fluid. So I bought what is it called...pedialyte? That stuff that basically replenishes missing nutrients. It's made for babies and little children and some where on some hamster site i read that it's okay for a small mammal.
I basically intimidated my sister with a speech along the lines of "It's going to die in a few days" or something she's 10 by the way....
I looked it up and the hamster might have something called "wet-tail" I'm not sure, since i haven't been to a vet with it i really dont know. But I can't afford a vet. I have a dog and two cats under my belt that I basically give my last penny to, and spent 300 bucks about a week ago (time for a diet of ramen noodles....) on my dogs vet bill. And Ike didn't help anybody, and for those who dont know Ike was the hurricane that hit texas not too long ago.
So this hamster is suffering (in my opinion).
We changed it to an aquarium instead of the small hamster cage, i make my sister wash off the hamster if it's soiled sometimes several times a day, change the shavings so it doesn't have any fecal matter on it, and try to keep it clean as possible. But like i said, we really can't afford a vet bill. Which is why as i said im going to have to call all these vets for one that will euthanize it for free... little pancake isn't even a year old :( Not sure what happened, i used to have gerbils and hamsters when i was a kid, one of them even had babies and they all lived completely healthy (until a certain mom took the cage out of my room when i was at school and went to pick me up and there were dead hamsters when i got home because the dog thought they were play things) *Sob*

BRINKS
09-23-2008, 07:03 PM
When a body gets low on oxygen, heart rate and respiration increase to compensate then fear/stress at what is happening set in to accelerate the process of oxygen depletion. Unconsciousness occurs then death.


If you pipe car exhaust into your lungs the following occurs as the carbon monoxide displaces the oxygen in your blood.

coughing
headache
shortness of breath
dizziness
fatigue
mental confusion and difficulty thinking
loss of fine hand-eye coordination
nausea and vomiting
rapid heart rate
hallucinations
inability to execute voluntary movements accurately
collapse
lowered body temperature (hypothermia)
coma
convulsions
seriously low blood pressure
cardiac and respiratory failure
death

It would appear that a lack of oxygen would be a more humane way to end a creatures suffering than stuffing it in a car tailpipe.

Or you could take it to the vet and they will give it a shot. End of story.

Of course, I am in no way advocating the execution of small furry animals (I like small furry animals), merely providing information to the OP.


*Edit* Man! I type WAYYY too slow apparently.

Korlia
09-23-2008, 07:13 PM
Okay, maybe people are misunderstanding me. lol I wasn't suggesting of sticking the thing into car muffler, smacking it, shooting it, casting destruction or finger of death or any other means of killing it. The monoxide was just something i could think of off the top of my head for oxygen depletion to relate to stuffing it in a bag (again i would never do). I was told by a biology teacher last year that people who stick their generators in the garage end up getting carbon monoxide poisoning and because of that basically get fatigue all of a sudden and fall asleep and never wake up. So i was just asking for either a scientific or opinionated point of view. Basically if sticking it in a bag would cause pain or anything, i would prefer to convince my father to give me time to try to call around vets and ask if they can quickly euthanize it for free. (which would take time because we as individuals are busy) Granted my dad doesn't live here, so it would be up to my mom but still trying to buy time. But after the first response it made it clear that the bag idea was bad.

once again, im not sticking any animal into anything to kill it, beating it with anything, or killing it in anyway...

*edit* as in you were going to be the first response then after your finished result there were 5 other posts in front of yours?

krud
09-23-2008, 07:15 PM
I used to euthanize rats for research. Unfortunately, most of the methods we used are not suitable for use at home (halothane, sedatives, guillotine, etc). The only one I can think of that might work is dry ice (CO2) in a container. Basically it's doing the same thing as your bag solution, but quicker. It works, but still not easy to get completely right at home either.

here's what I found doing a quick google search on it. It's similar to the dry ice method, but uses baking soda and vinegar to generate the CO2.
http://www.ratfanclub.org/euth.html

excerpt
"The only humane ways to euthanize a rat at home without veterinary help are with carbon dioxide (CO2) or nitrous oxide. Euthanasia with CO2 is approved by the American Veterinary Medical Association (AVMA).


Concentrated CO2 is a central nervous system depressant and actually causes anesthesia. You know how you yawn when you’re sleepy? This is the body’s way of getting rid of excess carbon dioxide in your system which is making you sleepy. CO2 does not cause suffocation. The rat will be able to breathe normally, will become anesthetized and will then die.


The key to using CO2 humanely is its concentration. The normal concentration of CO2 in the air is only 0.038%. According to the 2000 Report of the AVMA Panel on Euthanasia, breathing concentrations of 7.5% increases the pain threshold, and concentrations of 30-40% cause anesthesia (unconsciousness) within 1-2 minutes. However, concentrations of 50% or higher irritate the eyes and respiratory tract and cause pain. Your goal is to create a concentration of 30-40% CO2 and hold it there until the rat is unconscious."

captain1z
09-23-2008, 07:21 PM
I dont like to see animals suffer but in this case Id say you only have 2 choices:


1 - feed him rose petals. For some reason it seems to kill them (maybe all the chemicals you find typically on a store bought rose)



2- make him as comfortable as possible. place his food closer to him and change the wood chip bedding to shredded news paper. He will pass soon enuff. Caring for him and giving him a funeral in the end will teach your little sib a valuable life lesson............... dont hide death from her, it only makes it harder to handle later in life.



Sadly, many store bought pets are purchased in poor health because of the conditions they endured before you bought them. Its really just a question of how much damage has been done before you put your money on the counter. Pet shops tend to restock monthly.............. ask them what week they expect new animals and buy that week for a better chance.

Missing_Minds
09-23-2008, 07:26 PM
Because it is Ike related, call around. There may be a vet or even a humane society around you that would be willing to treat it for free.

Other wise, instead of using a car to let it breath die, you could always put a candel in the aquarium, light it. wait for the candle to put itself out from using up the O2 around it flooding the aquarium with the CO2.

Still... I'd be more hoping for luck with my first suggestion. My condolences.

I don't know much about rodents.. but something in my past also makes me remember something about them also sleeping in their food and that is a bad thing.

Aranticus
09-23-2008, 07:35 PM
put the cage into a freezer, as it body temperature falls, bodily functions will slow and the hamster goes into hibernation. the only difference is the temperature will continue to lower until it crosses the threshold point and death occurs as all functions stop

pros: when an animal hibernates, bodily functions are so slow that all the senses are reduced/numbed, meaning its less likely to feel pain/discomfort

cons: stinky freezer

Korlia
09-23-2008, 07:50 PM
-oopps it posted this one and the one below it twice..so i'll just add this instead of leaving it that way-

Korlia
09-23-2008, 07:55 PM
Well so far Krud's response, in addition to all suggestions of euthanization would be the best ones. Lol sorry Aranticus, I dont think i'm going to be sticking it into the freezer, although eventually it will go numb, it would bother me to eat something from the freezer after that, plus I'd feel bad for it going cold and shivering in there.
And in response to captain1z i actually did read up on that, how stores get these rodents in mass quantities or what not, and they're stressed because of the move, and conditions, and a new environment and what have you. But i assume she would be okay because my sister has had her for a year now. And her illness came about VERY quickly. She was fine 3 days ago, 2 days ago she all of a sudden was seeming less fat, yesterday she was wobbly and disoriented, and today she's the same, except that we bought some small things for her. We got our power back about a week ago, and i'm unsure if something in the air got to her or whatnot when the windows were open. It was actually VERY VERY humid the night after ike. So i'm really not sure whats going on.

A note to missing minds, lol im not goign to stick her in a muffler or beat it, or shoot it or anything. I think i was being misunderstood when i compared carbon monoxide to losing oxygen in a bag. I was asking for whats the difference since as i posted before, its the only source that i know of since people who suffocate usually dont come back to life to tell the tale of "how it feels to die with your head in a plastic bag". :rolleyes:

krud
09-23-2008, 08:09 PM
here's another link describing the baking soda/vinegar method. There is also a link to it within the previous page I cited. The pictures and setup are a bit clearer.

http://www.alysion.org/euthanasia/

Aranticus
09-23-2008, 08:16 PM
last but not least, give it an injection of a highly concentrated NaCl/KCl solution. stops the heart. works on humans at least not too sure about rodents

twix
09-23-2008, 08:16 PM
Send the hampster to me my boa needs a night time snack.

Aranticus
09-23-2008, 08:23 PM
Send the hampster to me my boa needs a night time snack.

after hes done, send the boa to me, i need a new belt :cool:

Korlia
09-23-2008, 08:41 PM
Lol nice comments on the chain mouse to boa to belt.

Thanks everyone for helping out I really appreciate everyone taking their time to try to give me answers.

Gunga
09-23-2008, 08:46 PM
Is a cinder block out of the question?

I heard an interview with a carbomb victim and he said all he remembers is a flashing light and then he woke up in the hospital. I mean, as long as your aim is steady, one clean hit would be the quickest and least stressful for the little guy, even if it is the most brutal.

I'm assuming you want to make it easiest for him, right?

Naash
09-23-2008, 09:07 PM
Check the local yellow pages for a veterinary school,explain your situation to them.
Its possible they may treat your sisters hampster for a much lower cost as part of the teaching experience.

krud
09-23-2008, 11:02 PM
Is a cinder block out of the question?

I'm assuming you want to make it easiest for him, right?

I think you missed the part about him wanting to make it look like it died a natural death.

"...but, why is he all squished like that?" :(

Korlia
09-24-2008, 01:10 AM
LOL yeah she might wonder what kind of death that might be. I actually told her about the "home remedy" to kill it nicely by falling asleep if nobody (medical schools, vets, or any type of certified medical place with a needle and the euthanizer stuff) is willing to do so if her health doesn't improve. And she started crying (I actually had one of the links up and showed her how the contraption worked), and i told her if it came to the choice she would have to pick, die of starvation because the little thing no matter how much we feed it, it just goes right out and doesn't get nutrition, or fall asleep and die. Naturally i told her to go a few days with out eating and figure out for herself if it was a good way to die. I got a little upset in general because I dont like animals suffering since I find them to be innocent, so when she wanted to let it live as long as possible which is understandable i was thinking she was being a little selfish to let it suffer so she can just have it in the cage. But im sure if it got to a certain point id just take it when she was at school and stick it in the muffler and put it out of its misery. NO IM JOKING, i wouldn't stick it in the muffler, i'd take it somewhere with a saw and give the vet my arm so they could euthanize the critter (if no place would help).

Once again thanks everyone for replying, though i got many useful answers from good sources and experience....and some...less than helpful ones (boa & cinder block...lol) if i can't stick it in a bag i doubt im going to want to squish it. :eek:

Gunga
09-24-2008, 10:41 AM
LOL yeah she might wonder what kind of death that might be. I actually told her about the "home remedy" to kill it nicely by falling asleep if nobody (medical schools, vets, or any type of certified medical place with a needle and the euthanizer stuff) is willing to do so if her health doesn't improve. And she started crying (I actually had one of the links up and showed her how the contraption worked), and i told her if it came to the choice she would have to pick, die of starvation because the little thing no matter how much we feed it, it just goes right out and doesn't get nutrition, or fall asleep and die. Naturally i told her to go a few days with out eating and figure out for herself if it was a good way to die. I got a little upset in general because I dont like animals suffering since I find them to be innocent, so when she wanted to let it live as long as possible which is understandable i was thinking she was being a little selfish to let it suffer so she can just have it in the cage. But im sure if it got to a certain point id just take it when she was at school and stick it in the muffler and put it out of its misery. NO IM JOKING, i wouldn't stick it in the muffler, i'd take it somewhere with a saw and give the vet my arm so they could euthanize the critter (if no place would help).

Once again thanks everyone for replying, though i got many useful answers from good sources and experience....and some...less than helpful ones (boa & cinder block...lol) if i can't stick it in a bag i doubt im going to want to squish it. :eek:

So make the poor thing suffer more so that it's easier on your sister? Yeah. Gotcha.

Korlia
09-24-2008, 10:47 AM
I think you misread the part about me just euthanizing it instead of dropping a block on it.

NiBB
09-24-2008, 10:49 AM
That poor poor hamster...

But no, suffocation and CO poisoning are NOT the same thing. Suffocation has you gasping for air, and would likely be rather unpleasant to say the least. Get it euthanized at your local vet if you've decided its time.

Yes. Please follow this person's lead. Extra suffering would not be a sound solution, IMO.

Gunga
09-24-2008, 10:50 AM
I think you misread the part about me just euthanizing it instead of dropping a block on it.

No I read perfectly. Where the cinderblock is less helpful than suffocating it. Nice.

EazyWeazy
09-24-2008, 10:52 AM
The time you spent on this thread could have been spent finding a Vet that would take care of the situation for you. At the end of the day, most Vets really love animals and hate to see them suffering. The poor guy is suffering right now as sick as he is. Do the right thing and find a Vet that will help.

ShaeNightbird
09-24-2008, 10:56 AM
I think the veterinary school idea is the best one. It's a shame that the vets in your area will charge that much to euthanise a creature the size of a softball. Seems outrageous to me.
The concept of death is always rough on kids. They're so far away from it that they really don't understand. Usually the first experience a kid has with it is either a pet, or an elderly family member. I think the impending death of the pet is tougher on them, too, because they probably aren't in daily contact with the elder, and it's more abstract in a way. Unfortunately, this is one of the life lessons that death happens.

Gunga
09-24-2008, 11:07 AM
The time you spent on this thread could have been spent finding a Vet that would take care of the situation for you. At the end of the day, most Vets really love animals and hate to see them suffering. The poor guy is suffering right now as sick as he is. Do the right thing and find a Vet that will help.

But then his sister would have to face the idea that life is fragile and ultimately ends. Maybe he should just flush the old one and grab a freshy from the local mall. Then sis can remain blissfully ignorant believing hamster life goes on forever. Weeeeee. Yay.

cdemeritt
09-24-2008, 11:15 AM
Sorry to hear about your situation. The Sickness/Loss of a treasured family pet can be very difficult to deal with sometimes. I do not wish your situation on anyone.
However I wish to urge caution on using any deceit on your part when dealing with your sister. Lies have a way of coming out, and any deceit, no matter how well intentioned, can be viewed as a act of betrayal of her trust, even years latter.
That being said, I also have to question the appropriateness of this thread. It seems to me that you should have other places/people to discuss this subject with.

Rameses
09-24-2008, 11:28 AM
You have a cat. Use it. Tell your sister that the Hamster got and the cat got him.

Jay203
09-24-2008, 11:49 AM
You have a cat. Use it. Tell your sister that the Hamster got and the cat got him.

and risk the cat getting sick from eating the hamster? :P

Rameses
09-24-2008, 11:52 AM
and risk the cat getting sick from eating the hamster? :P

At the dog wasn't hurt :D