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Angelus_dead
08-31-2008, 03:05 AM
A while ago (module 5 I'll guess), a Base Damage Rating was added to the in-game descriptions of DDO weapons. It is misleading, so please shrink it in prominence, and possibly replace it with a more accurate calculation like "Standard Damage Rating" or "Typical Damage Rating". Base damage is not meaningful in DDO, because no character who cares about damage goes around inflicting base damage on anything.

As an example, right now I'm looking at the BDR of a couple weapons with identical magical properties.
Kukri: 6.33
Shortsword: 7.15
Heavy Mace: 7.33

Those numbers give exactly the reversed impression of how damaging those weapons actually are. In reality, the kukri is the best and the mace is the worst. It also gives a Club the same rating as a Quarterstaff, nevermind that staffs get 1.5x strength and are much deadiler because of that.

To fix this problem, you could instead compute "Typical Damage Rating" which would incorporate an ordinary level of damage bonus, such as assuming a total +12 bonus from strength, feats, and whatever else. Or the display could use "Personalized Damage Rating", which would use the stats of the active character to compute the power of the weapon.

Right now, the BDR serves to mislead new players, and waste space for experienced players.

Major_Pain
07-27-2010, 12:36 PM
I have been trying to understand how weapons work. I would like to start off with the basics. So how is the Base Damage Modifier calculated? Does anyone know?

Major Pain

Gnorbert
07-27-2010, 12:39 PM
I say just remove it. I really like the concept of having to think how a weapon works FOR YOUR CHAR and not just a "this weapon is better than that one.. I mean the useless number tells me so"

LunaCee
07-27-2010, 12:53 PM
BDR doesn't take elemental properties into account... so basically it can claim that a plain +4 weapon is better than a +2 version of that same weapon that also has shock and pure good on it.

Yeah it really doesn't help much. And if you have an improved critical feat for a weapon type it can be even more wrong.

Thelmallen
07-27-2010, 01:22 PM
/signed

I think at best this is confusing to newer players (for whom it is aimed, I think). At worst it is patently misleading.

Kinerd
07-27-2010, 02:02 PM
I have been trying to understand how weapons work. I would like to start off with the basics. So how is the Base Damage Modifier calculated? Does anyone know?

Major PainThe Base Damage Rating is calculated by taking the result of every possible roll from 1 to 20 as though the character had an otherwise 0 damage bonus (so 10 strength, no feats, etc.) and dividing by 20. Hence a plain falchion (2d4, 18-20 x2 crits) has 5 + 5 + ... + 5 + 10 + 10 + 10 = 115, / 20 = 5.75. A +1 falchion has 6 + 6 + ... + 6 + 12 + 12 + 12 = 138, / 20 = 6.90.

This is misleading for many reasons:
1. A 1 on a d20 is an automatic miss.
2. Not all situations are a guaranteed hit on a 2 on a d20. This would make a weapon with bonus to attack superior.
3. Not all criticals are guaranteed to be confirmed. This would also make weapons with bonus to attack superior.
4. No other weapon enhancements are taken into account - damage flares (e.g. flaming burst, screaming), keen, etc.
5. Because strength bonus is treated as 0, twohanded weapons cannot be compared to main hand weapons, and neither can be compared to offhand weapons.

Major_Pain
07-27-2010, 06:08 PM
That is a perfect explanation. It clears things up for me. I have a Clerics on all servers so I did not have to worry about DPS. In DDO I think that casters are easier to play and build and tanks are hard. I have played with some poor DPS and AC tanks and I never knew how complex it was/is.

I am going to make a table that has the Base Damage Modifier and add in the attack speed.

One more question. When you crit does suffixes get the crit applied and prefixes do not. (of course bursting weapons will have the crit applied)
Does strength modifies get applied to crits?
Does enhancements and boosts get applied to crits?

Major Pain

Angelus_dead
07-27-2010, 06:30 PM
This is misleading for many reasons:
123456
You left out the most important reason:
Treating characters as 10 str and unbuffed means that the critical multiplier and critical threat range don't express their real advantage.

That's what makes a kukri better than a morningstar... the 18-20 crit range (vs 20) is a much bigger damage advantage than the 1d8 (vs 1d4) base damage.

Kinerd
07-27-2010, 07:20 PM
That is a perfect explanation. It clears things up for me. I have a Clerics on all servers so I did not have to worry about DPS. In DDO I think that casters are easier to play and build and tanks are hard. I have played with some poor DPS and AC tanks and I never knew how complex it was/is.Glad I could help! AngelusDead's point in the post preceding this one is also very important to note.
One more question. When you crit does suffixes get the crit applied and prefixes do not. (of course bursting weapons will have the crit applied)
Does strength modifies get applied to crits?
Does enhancements and boosts get applied to crits?The critical multiplier is directly applied only to weapon damage and those effects that state it specifically (e.g. seeker), not to bursts or special damage of any kind. Bursts do extra damage on crits related to the multiplier, but they are not directly multiplied. For instance, a +2 flaming burst warhammer (critical multiplier of 3) on a roll of 20 with confirmed critical will do (1d8 + 2 + x) * 3 + 1d6 + 2d10 damage, where x is your total damage modifier from strength, action boosts, spells, etc. A +2 warhammer of pure good, however, will only do (1d8 + 2 + x) * 3 + 1d6 on a roll of 20 with confirmed critical; the 1d6 from pure good is not modified in any way (assuming of course that the target is of a neutral or evil alignment).

Thus, only some enhancements/boosts have crits directly applied to them - damage boosts (like strength bonus or Inspire Courage), and those that specifically say so (like Seeker or the Kensai Weapon Mastery enhancement). In DDO character routinely have damage bonuses that dwarf the base damage of their weapon, which is what makes ignoring damage bonus so perilous in weapon evaluation.