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Shattergod
08-27-2008, 07:05 PM
Dramatically increase experience between levels four and 13.

boldarblood
08-27-2008, 07:14 PM
Why?

There is so much XP in the game already.

Amabel
08-27-2008, 07:16 PM
And put in an "I win" button while you're at it please. I'm sick of having to play the game to advance.

Lithic
08-27-2008, 07:18 PM
Are you paying for internet access per word by any chance?

You want the devs to dramatically increase exp it takes to get from 4-13th level, because leveling is way too fast? I would tend to agree, though on my non-smell-the-roses characters I do sometimes get impatient with the time to level.

Or you want quests to be dramatically upped in exp they give? If this is what you meant, why would you increase all quests, instead of a short list of the never run ones? I could get behind a faithfull departed worth 10k base, but more exp in stormcleave or CO6 is rediculous.

Mhykke
08-27-2008, 07:23 PM
/not signed


Leveling is waaay too easy as it stands.


http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii143/mykeuva/level20.jpg

sickle423
08-27-2008, 07:25 PM
i could handle say 2x xp on all the quests up to lvl 8 or so, but not 13

parvo
08-27-2008, 07:55 PM
In fact, at the end of the quest, players should just choose how much XP they get :rolleyes:

Uska
08-27-2008, 10:45 PM
People already are complaining about capping and you want this:rolleyes:

Nirvana
08-27-2008, 11:28 PM
I think you guys misunderstood the OP. He needs more xp between lv4 - 13, which means it takes longer to level.

Dariuss
08-27-2008, 11:44 PM
I think you guys misunderstood the OP. He needs more xp between lv4 - 13, which means it takes longer to level.

I think he thinks that it takes too long to level through that mid-range. Once you hit GH the levels fly by, and of course levels 1 - 4 takes almost no time at all.

I admit there is -and always has been- a problem getting roups for those mid levels... even since the level cap was 10 and the mid levels were 6-8....

I think a better fix is more incentive to run those quests at level. either add loot rewards, balance the xp, or limit favor to level range.

MissErres
08-27-2008, 11:50 PM
I could get behind a faithfull departed worth 10k base, but more exp in stormcleave or CO6 is rediculous.

*shudders at the thought of that damn quest*

Denssor
08-27-2008, 11:52 PM
If anything they should lower the XP by half. People are capping out toons in a couple of weeks. What I would like to see is, more quest at all levels and less XP. This way you actually get enjoy every level before you level again. But what throws me off is some lvl 9+ quest give 2k XP while some lvl 2 quests also gives 2k XP. I just don't get that. But what ever the case, the XP should go down, not up. And being super demanding about it with no support on why it should go up, isn't heping you either.

Spell
08-28-2008, 03:41 AM
When DDO was first launched. It was more in line with pnp D&D. Dieing and losing xp could actually cause you to lose a serious level. It was a challenge to level. And having a capped toon meant you worked for it and it was something to be proud of.
Enough whiners complained and Turbine reduced the death xp debt to an almost pitance that was easily overlooked. Most people were happy enough with this. You had a capped toon and you could lose some xp but still run some quests and be capped again. Death still had some sting.
But NO, this wasn't enough for some people. Turbine eliminated XP debt and replaced it with a niggly concept of wepaon damage for dieing. Now people zerg through quests solely to level up as quickly as possible and shrug death off for a whopping (what is it) 1-2minutes.
NOW, this isn't even enough. People want the xp amounts raised!! Just so they can run a toon from 1-16 over the weekend.
This is just getting stupid. We are so far off the mark from the challenge of D&D as it is. Let's just be done with xp if that's the case and new toons can walk off the boat at the level cap.

reefhut
08-28-2008, 03:51 AM
When DDO was first launched. It was more in line with pnp D&D. Dieing and losing xp could actually cause you to lose a serious level. It was a challenge to level. And having a capped toon meant you worked for it and it was something to be proud of.
Enough whiners complained and Turbine reduced the death xp debt to an almost pitance that was easily overlooked. Most people were happy enough with this. You had a capped toon and you could lose some xp but still run some quests and be capped again. Death still had some sting.
But NO, this wasn't enough for some people. Turbine eliminated XP debt and replaced it with a niggly concept of wepaon damage for dieing. THEN they came up with the BRILLIANT idea of binding weapons so they wouldn't take permanent damage, thus eliminating the worry of dying completely. Now people zerg through quests solely to level up as quickly as possible and shrug death off for a whopping (what is it) 1-2minutes.
NOW, this isn't even enough. People want the xp amounts raised!! Just so they can run a toon from 1-16 over the weekend.
This is just getting stupid. We are so far off the mark from the challenge of D&D as it is. Let's just be done with xp if that's the case and new toons can walk off the boat at the level cap.

fixed it for ya ;)


so why is it that Turbine listens to all the god damned whiners when it comes to making major changes to the game, instead of doing something...anything... that actually makes sense?

Leyoni
08-28-2008, 04:10 AM
so why is it that Turbine listens to all the god damned whiners when it comes to making major changes to the game, instead of doing something...anything... that actually makes sense?

Because they are the ones who pay the bills?

Turbine is in this for money. If the changes attract players then they are good business.

D&D always gave freedom to the GM and players to adjust the game in any way they wanted. The first rule of D&D was that the GM was always right (the second rule was the if the GM sucked then the players got a new GM).

DDO is D&D as implimented by Turbine (the GM). Whatever gets done is acceptable if it generates more players and more revenue for Turbine. If it has the opposite effect then Turbine will reevaluate -- as all businesses do.

What you, or I, think "makes sense" doesn't necessarily match to what Turbine thinks "makes sense". If you look at it from a dollar & cents POV it may just make "cents". :)

reefhut
08-28-2008, 04:27 AM
Because they are the ones who pay the bills?

Turbine is in this for money. If the changes attract players then they are good business.

D&D always gave freedom to the GM and players to adjust the game in any way they wanted. The first rule of D&D was that the GM was always right (the second rule was the if the GM sucked then the players got a new GM).

DDO is D&D as implimented by Turbine (the GM). Whatever gets done is acceptable if it generates more players and more revenue for Turbine. If it has the opposite effect then Turbine will reevaluate -- as all businesses do.

What you, or I, think "makes sense" doesn't necessarily match to what Turbine thinks "makes sense". If you look at it from a dollar & cents POV it may just make "cents". :)

it was actually more of a rhetorical question, but thanks :p

Gornin
08-28-2008, 09:38 AM
so why is it that Turbine listens to all the god damned whiners when it comes to making major changes to the game, instead of doing something...anything... that actually makes sense?

Like what WoTC did to DnD AND Forgotten Realms? Changed or destroyed everything because of the whiners who could not or would not do a little work to change or fix things themselves. It seems to be the new business model now. :(

cdbd3rd
08-28-2008, 10:04 AM
/not signed


Leveling is waaay too easy as it stands.


http://home.att.net/~cdbd3rd/level20.jpg



Fixed it for ya. :D


:)


Okay - constructively, there is a dead zone in the midbies that could use some help. As has been mentioned, tweeking the XP/awards on quests that see little to no attention any more would be the way to go. IMHO, of course.

.

Laith
08-28-2008, 10:10 AM
the lack of groups in the mid-level range is the problem, and henchmen will probably address it well.

...or they'll be useless, and won't have hurt anything. ;)

Cold_Stele
08-28-2008, 10:31 AM
Level 10-13 sucks and could use a little love (sure the GH quests are good, but try finding a group for them).

This will definitely get worse when level cap goes to 20 - power leveling spread could really do with being increased at this point.

krud
08-28-2008, 10:31 AM
If anything they should lower the XP by half. People are capping out toons in a couple of weeks. What I would like to see is, more quest at all levels and less XP. This way you actually get enjoy every level before you level again. But what throws me off is some lvl 9+ quest give 2k XP while some lvl 2 quests also gives 2k XP. I just don't get that. But what ever the case, the XP should go down, not up. And being super demanding about it with no support on why it should go up, isn't heping you either.
i don't get it either. There are quite a few level 8-10 quests that give less xp than STK. I could run STK elite with a level 10 character for way more xp than most 8-12 quests, and that's including the xp hit for being above the quest level. As a percentage of xp required to level, the mid-level quests seem far behind the lower and upper level quests.

EKKM
08-28-2008, 10:36 AM
Level 10-13 sucks and could use a little love (sure the GH quests are good, but try finding a group for them).

This will definitely get worse when level cap goes to 20 - power leveling spread could really do with being increased at this point.

Ive found the issue to be finding non-gainthold LFMs at that level.

Deathseeker
08-28-2008, 10:38 AM
the lack of groups in the mid-level range is the problem, and henchmen will probably address it well.

...or they'll be useless, and won't have hurt anything. ;)

/Agreed

It's totally true that there is a "dead zone" for grouping in the mid level areas. It's also true that leveling slows way down at level 7ish. But those two things are actually contradictory, not complimentary. If everyone is stuck between 7 and 10, why is it so hard to find a group?

The problem isn't exactly that there its too hard to get xp from 7 to 10. The problem is there is a large chunk of the player population that run out of patience at level 7ish, and just stop leveling their toons. I see this in our guild constantly...people get bored with their lowbies, the going gets tougher in terms of leveling time, and they end up back with their capped toons.

That actually could be addressed by making the xp at those levels more balanced. But I'd also suggest LOWERING the XP on the Gianthold and Vale quests! Yes, I said it, flame away! The leveling is currently faster from 11 to 16 than it is from 7 to 10. I'd suggest raising the 7 to 10 quests, and lowering the 11 thru 16 quests, and you'd see a more level progression without creating an "easy button" to get to capped.

And just to clarify...I don't mean increasing ALL 7 to 10 quests. Stormcleave, Gwylans, etc are just fine. But the bulk are too low. And 16k+ for Madstone? Please, way too high. Level these off a little...

Milolyen
08-28-2008, 11:30 AM
/Agreed

It's totally true that there is a "dead zone" for grouping in the mid level areas. It's also true that leveling slows way down at level 7ish. But those two things are actually contradictory, not complimentary. If everyone is stuck between 7 and 10, why is it so hard to find a group?

The problem isn't exactly that there its too hard to get xp from 7 to 10. The problem is there is a large chunk of the player population that run out of patience at level 7ish, and just stop leveling their toons. I see this in our guild constantly...people get bored with their lowbies, the going gets tougher in terms of leveling time, and they end up back with their capped toons.

That actually could be addressed by making the xp at those levels more balanced. But I'd also suggest LOWERING the XP on the Gianthold and Vale quests! Yes, I said it, flame away! The leveling is currently faster from 11 to 16 than it is from 7 to 10. I'd suggest raising the 7 to 10 quests, and lowering the 11 thru 16 quests, and you'd see a more level progression without creating an "easy button" to get to capped.

And just to clarify...I don't mean increasing ALL 7 to 10 quests. Stormcleave, Gwylans, etc are just fine. But the bulk are too low. And 16k+ for Madstone? Please, way too high. Level these off a little...

Lowering exp in the Vale would be a bad thing as there is not many quests that are in the 15 - 16 range. My fighter has been stuck at lvl 15 far longer than he was stuck at any other lvl. His main source for exp at lvl 15 has been the shroud, hound, and explorers. I personally find 8 - 10 to be the dead spot. Once you hit lvl 11 it picks back up. As you said a lot of it is people get frustrated once they hit lvl 7 and 8 so they don't go much past it, then others find they don't like the build as much as they thought so they give up on them. Then also the ones that do stick it out lvl up quickly because they want to just get through that portion and start running with the big boys.

But as far as increasing the amount of exp over all in the game = bad. I think they should even it out a bit more between different quests. Take a little away from this one and add it to that one type of thing.

Milolyen

frugal_gourmet
08-28-2008, 11:35 AM
I am a casual new player who has only ever played one character, and... if it were up to me I'd halve the amount of experience given out. Period.

I became capped in a short while playing with little time investment, exploring only a fraction of the content, and grouping almost exclusively with whatever PUGs were available. Way too easy.

Thrudh
08-28-2008, 11:38 AM
His main source for exp at lvl 15 has been the shroud, hound, and explorers.

The shroud gives a LOT of experience.. I can't imagine it takes more than 4-5 completions to cap someone.

Milolyen
08-28-2008, 11:38 AM
I am a casual new player who has only ever played one character, and... if it were up to me I'd halve the amount of experience given out. Period.

Don't know you but there is a good chance your opinion will change from this once you cap that char and roll another. As I said in the post above yours I don't want to see the over all amount of exp in game go up but would not mind seeing it leveled out a bit among the quests and I would not care to see it halved.

Milolyen

Xanthrawl
08-28-2008, 11:42 AM
Exp Between each level needs to be increased dramatically, both for the noobs, and the vets alike. You can make level 2 in under 30 minutes. Some noobs haven't even figured out how to do basic functions like changing out spells at a shrine at this point, and they are already dealing with leveling up and getting NEW abilities when they haven't mastered the old ones? As for vets, it is not fun to make level 16 in a week... I've done it. (ok, it was fun once to say I've done it.) By and large, I'd like to see more exp needed for EVERY level. Double it. At least. There is no way to LOSE exp anymore. This is a numbers game, and with all of the numbers being positive, it's only a matter of time before everyone is capped off.

People are complaining about mid levels being hard to level. Huh?! From level 4, people hit STK, TR, Gwylans, SC, The Pit, CO6, Deleras, etc. Even if you play these quests one time threw on each difficulty, you're probably looking at a level 9 toon (or higher). As people play these more than once, you make a level 11-12 toon from just these quests, then hit up GH, Tempest Spine, Orchard, Vale, etc. (BTW, the Pit is grossly overlooked. I have soloed it with 2 different level 6 toons, and it's worth killer exp.) And if I misunderstood the mid-level complaint and it was meant that it's hard to find parties... talk to the other people complaining. Chances are, they'd help you out. ;-) If you have a tricked out toon, then start a mission solo and put up an "In Progress" LFM. Believe me. People join. I've done it with TR, CO6, SC, Gwylans, Deleras, and mostly, the Pit.

Milolyen
08-28-2008, 11:44 AM
The shroud gives a LOT of experience.. I can't imagine it takes more than 4-5 completions to cap someone.

Well first shroud run I made was at lvl 14 on this fighter and hit lvl 15 in it. It takes a lot more than 4-5 if not running anything other than raids and besides 4-5 shroud runs = 12 - 15 days which still puts me at 15 longer than any other lvl.

Milolyen

frugal_gourmet
08-28-2008, 11:48 AM
Don't know you but there is a good chance your opinion will change from this once you cap that char and roll another. As I said in the post above yours I don't want to see the over all amount of exp in game go up but would not mind seeing it leveled out a bit among the quests and I would not care to see it halved.


You're saying over awhile I will get bored leveling up and will just want to get to the end game as fast as possible? Seems reasonable.

But right now, being at end game, I haven't figured out why this part of the game is that much more fun than the other parts. I think I might well enjoy a little more time spent on the journey.

reefhut
08-28-2008, 12:04 PM
the lack of groups in the mid-level range is the problem, and henchmen will probably address it well.

...or they'll be useless, and won't have hurt anything. ;)

...other than wasting valuable development time that could have been focused elsewhere?

but its not like thats ever happened, so we dont need to worry

Deathseeker
08-28-2008, 12:12 PM
...other than wasting valuable development time that could have been focused elsewhere?

but its not like thats ever happened, so we dont need to worry

Because obviously your view of what is "valuable" is what counts.

This is all about new player retention...plain and simple. If they can't keep new players faster than they lose old ones, it spells long term doom. My assumption is that the metric that they are seeing that needs improvement is getting new players to make it to cap and stay on. Thus the focus on these items (player paths, henchman, etc).

If they are successful, then they'll have more resources for development of other things. But its hard to build a hot rod if you can't pay for gas, so sounds like they are going in that direction.

I'm looking forward to henchmen...especially running them through upcoming traps...muhahahaha...

Zaodon
08-28-2008, 12:15 PM
Dear OP:

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c53/RPGamerd00d/EpicFail.jpg

Strykersz
08-28-2008, 12:24 PM
i don't get it either. There are quite a few level 8-10 quests that give less xp than STK. I could run STK elite with a level 10 character for way more xp than most 8-12 quests, and that's including the xp hit for being above the quest level. As a percentage of xp required to level, the mid-level quests seem far behind the lower and upper level quests.

There are a lot of level 3-5 quests that give terrible xp as well. That's why the 8-10 range of lfm's is populated with Co6, Von, maybe SC, possibly the Pit, Shadow Crypt, etc. and not Caverns of Korromar(2k xp woo!), Faithful Departed, or Reclamation. It's also the reason no one runs Kobold Assault, Swiped Signet or Rest for the Restless.

reefhut
08-28-2008, 12:24 PM
Because obviously your view of what is "valuable" is what counts.

This is all about new player retention...plain and simple. If they can't keep new players faster than they lose old ones, it spells long term doom. My assumption is that the metric that they are seeing that needs improvement is getting new players to make it to cap and stay on. Thus the focus on these items (player paths, henchman, etc).

If they are successful, then they'll have more resources for development of other things. But its hard to build a hot rod if you can't pay for gas, so sounds like they are going in that direction.

I'm looking forward to henchmen...especially running them through upcoming traps...muhahahaha...

my comment was more centered around (at least in my head) the problem that turbine keeps pumping out all these new and fantastic ideas that fizzle out a month after release, instead of fixing some MAJOR flaws in the "fantastic" ideas from many many mods ago. I get what you're saying about NEW player retention and how the upgrade to harbor area, henchmen, etc. will address that. But its obviously clear as mud to them that if they fix these long standing issues that veteran players have, there would be a ton of players returning. Not to mention the fact that even when new players have been here long enuf to see what the REAL issues are, they will hit the cancel button as well. The problems with this game go WAY deeper than retaining new players. Turbine really needs to shape things up, or the DoOoOoOom threads will become a reality

sultro
08-28-2008, 12:40 PM
Well first shroud run I made was at lvl 14 on this fighter and hit lvl 15 in it. It takes a lot more than 4-5 if not running anything other than raids and besides 4-5 shroud runs = 12 - 15 days which still puts me at 15 longer than any other lvl.

Milolyen

your doing it wrong. stop completing it. ransack the shroud 1-4 chests to up your ingredient count and get the optional exp. you'll be capped after about 8 runs, and have enough ingredients to come very close to crafting through tier 2. and you'll have a head start on the few larges you pick up from part 4. then you start completion runs and work toward your 20th.

Milolyen
08-28-2008, 12:51 PM
You're saying over awhile I will get bored leveling up and will just want to get to the end game as fast as possible? Seems reasonable.

But right now, being at end game, I haven't figured out why this part of the game is that much more fun than the other parts. I think I might well enjoy a little more time spent on the journey.

Well 2 things about this.

1. I have a VERY good memory when it comes to maps, directions, and stuff of that nature. I have alot of the quests memmorized after the first run. The only 3 quests I did not have memorized after the first 2 runs was Crucible, Inferno of the Damned and part of Titan preraid(crucible took 3 runs to mem and inferno took 5 runs to have the easiest route memed and still do not know the green puzzle but I did know the underwater part after the first run). While it was fun to go through it and figure the stuff out the first time, the consecutive runs was just for getting the reward at the end. So for me to go back through and go through them all again can be a bit boring and with some of the most frequently run quests very VERY tedious.

2. Also I enjoy seeing how powerfull I can make my char's and generally speaking there is always something out there I can get on them ... right now after playing him for 2 years my ranger still has 7 items I am wanting to get for him Titan belt, Bracers from VoD, Outfit from Ghost's, boots of the innocent, bloodstone, smoke 2 gloves (made them as a bracer before mod 7) and teir 3 cloak. This ranger already has some pretty crazy stats and gear but I want to get the best set up.

Also while the quests remain constant their is a **** load of ways to build a char. A lot of people enjoy doing that as well. They don't really care about going through the content because it is the same as they did for the last 10 builds they lvled up. The fun is in seeing how they fair against the elite mobs and the elite mobs are in the end game.

So why not just make an easy button and import a char you threw together in a char generator or increaseing exp to lvl faster? Simple despite knowing the content, despite being a good player they still wont be practiced in that build. To play a char well you have to lvl it and know what it can and can't do. It would also increase exp for new players that are still learning the game. Back when there was a death penalty and lvl cap was 10 and harder to get to than 16 is now ... when you had a group of lvl 10's for the most part everyone knew what they where doing and how to play there char. That is just not so anymore.

Milolyen

Milolyen
08-28-2008, 12:59 PM
your doing it wrong. stop completing it. ransack the shroud 1-4 chests to up your ingredient count and get the optional exp. you'll be capped after about 8 runs, and have enough ingredients to come very close to crafting through tier 2. and you'll have a head start on the few larges you pick up from part 4. then you start completion runs and work toward your 20th.

I already have a radiance 2 scimi on him, over half way to getting enough larges for a mineral 2 scimi (have the hard part to go ... 5 large devil scales, 4 large chains and 2 large stones to go) and already have enough small and medium to make 2 teir 2 items. Remember ... this is an alt here hehe. :) Also the end chests are the important ones for large ingredients and don't have enough time to bother trying to ransack part 4 as I have other things I want for him (chattering ring, and shield/bracer combo from hound) and for my main (see last post I made) as well.

Milolyen

Alavatar
08-28-2008, 01:08 PM
There is already plenty of XP in the game. The problem is that people jump into quests at levels far below the rated quest level.

A person can easily get to L5 just zerging harbor quests through elite. Then get to L7 doing market quests plus some house quests through elite. L7 to L11 is great if you do Delera's, Greymoon/CO6, VON1-6, Threnal and/or possibly TS through elite, then GH for L11-L14, then Vale for L14-L16.

The real problem is that people do SC at L4, Delera's at L4-L5, Greymoon/CO6 at L6, GH at L9, etc and they only do elite as opposed to doing Normal/Hard/Elite for first time bonus xp.

gfunk
08-28-2008, 01:15 PM
I'm not sure if the OP wants it to take more xp to get those levels, or if he wants more xp/quest at those levels.

I always hear people complaining about 4 through 11 quest range.. some people include up to lvl 13 as a problem. It's true that it's often tough to get a group in these ranges, esp because people zerg to cap and then can't really group with people less than lvl 13 (for xp/balance reasons).

The older the game, the more experienced the player base, the more people are going to power through the lower levels. I think the remarketing of the game with the NPE should help bring in new blood, and hopefully a larger overall playerbase. More players per server is going to help immensely.

Many of the mid-level quests are really quite good, with decent end rewards and xp. When I was a new player, I thought these quests were all wonderful, with interesting story lines, good rewards, and challenges. These quests all get run (though it would be nice to see a few more groups running them), by zerg and non-zerg alike. eg:

Tangleroot
Delaras
Co6
Threnal ruins (we all love to hate coyle)
Von's
Tempest spine

maybe the OP wants more people to have to run the other quests (if they meant that more xp should be required). Many of the other quests aren't run because people tend to like them less (i.e. catacombs, painful mid-level necro stuff, boring house D/J/K stuff).

Introducing some more mid-level quest-string quests (or perhaps revamping some strings with more interesting end rewards) might help. Even incorporating some of the existing stand alone quests into strings might be ok. For example, take all those 5 to 8 house K quests, reorganize them into a string, and give a better reward at the end of the whole thing.

VirieSquichie
08-28-2008, 01:19 PM
There are a lot of level 3-5 quests that give terrible xp as well. That's why the 8-10 range of lfm's is populated with Co6, Von, maybe SC, possibly the Pit, Shadow Crypt, etc. and not Caverns of Korromar(2k xp woo!), Faithful Departed, or Reclamation. It's also the reason no one runs Kobold Assault, Swiped Signet or Rest for the Restless.

Faithful Departed needs to have a nuke dropped in it. It isn't worth either the favor or the xp.

Caverns of Korromar is a great example of a good quest that has a ridiculously low xp value for the time involved. That and most of the gear that comes out of it really is vendor trash in the truest sense. The dagger isn't bad, the new helmet isn't bad...but they're early level gear, not mid level. Stuff like that should be found in Splinterskull. (speaking of which...that one should have listed levels of 3/3/3/4/4/5/5, not top out at 8...)

No one does Swiped Signet at level because the casters spam debilitating spells and high damage spells, which a level appropriate party would have real trouble with. On elite, if you don't have FoM or some high-damage ranged abilities in the group, you're probably in for a wipe since your melee folks will be constantly feared/sleeted. That quest seriously needs to be looked at, and either the stated level increased or some sort of juicy named loot added to it (add a chest for Quinn and put the named stuff in it?) or it'll never be more than an annoying favor run.

Reclamation and Skyros' Jewel are fine. Not too hard to run (annoying to do reclamation as a caster, but you get used to it) at appropriate level and though the loot is typically trash there are occasionally useful drops. Very occasionally. Besides, both quests have a different feel than the other stuff at similar levels, so they're good for a "something different" session. They could use a bit more xp but again, not too hard for what they are.

Rest for the Restless has little xp, practically no loot (less than any party-based harbor quest) and REQUIRES a second body to complete. Good thing it's so easy level 2's could do it...and by the way, the xp isn't all bad if your party is all under-level.

Kobold Assault takes a long time, for what it's worth. It's not hard, just repetitive. (ho hum, another wave of kobolds...) What's worse than it is the nearly identical mission by the spire, which adds a don't-let-them-in mechanic to the whole annoying mix. That one is right under Faithful Departed on my list of things to never bother with again...they could hand out free paralyzers at the end of that quest and I still wouldn't care to go there.

I haven't had any problems leveling my characters through to 10th, simply by hitting most of the quests on normal at appropriate levels (my paladin soloed most of 'em) and the more pleasant ones on hard. Some I did elite if there was an extra purpose to it (house K favor, house P favor...) or the party wanted to...but generally I blow through stuff on normal then go back for hard whenever it won't be much harder. I generally hold my characters back if there's stuff they haven't done yet at their level, unless there's some really strong reason to level up. (I'll jump from 2nd to 4th on my melees so I can use the choice weapons, and jump from odd level to odd level on my clerics for the spells most of the time) Holding them back like that helps me to get into the more common 3rd-5th level groups, too, which is a bonus.

The key for me is to always be doing something, not standing around looking for that perfect LFM. I'd rather do 4 ho-hum quests on normal at level than 1 juicy quest with a full party that I had to wait 20+ minutes for, and I'll get more xp than those who wait. Besides, I have limited play time and I don't want to spend it standing around waiting.

Shagn
08-28-2008, 01:44 PM
Dramatically increase my in-game playing experience between levels four and 13.

Fixed for the OP. :D

It's too easy to level for veterans, even through 4-13. Level 2-5 is so easy that we might as well come off the boat at lvl5. The common quests should have their xp reduced by half so other content is run through, or the uncommon/PITA ones have their xp increased.

Turbine probably doesn't want to keep new players from feeling a grind though, which is why some quests give a large amount of xp - so you don't have to run the same content over and over to level/hit cap.

Deathseeker
08-28-2008, 02:18 PM
Here's a compromise that a little different...

How about a 2500 favor reward that gives gear, BOUND TO YOUR ACCOUNT NOT YOUR INDIVIDUAL TOON, that gives you +20% xp to all quests, or a +3 Tome? Its gear so you can choose to wear it or not, but not bound to a specific toon so you can use it to twink if you so choose.

Now before you flip out, consider this...a player does not have to wear this. Once you have 2500 favor, you're a veteran. If you like low quests and don't want to level fast, don't take the xp item, take the tome. But if you don't like to grind, take the item and power level all you want. Win/win for both playstyles. Meanwhile, doesn't affect new players at all.

This helps those who hate leveling low/mid levels, and does nothing to those that don't.

If you are opposed to other people leveling fast...well, not sure why...it doesnt affect you.

I for one would have a heck of a time making this choice (+3 tome or big xp item). I think this would be a neat solution...

Shagn
08-28-2008, 02:38 PM
How about a 2500 favor reward that gives gear, BOUND TO YOUR ACCOUNT NOT YOUR INDIVIDUAL TOON, that gives you +20% xp to all quests, or a +3 Tome? Its gear so you can choose to wear it or not, but not bound to a specific toon so you can use it to twink if you so choose.[snip]

No doubt Turbine would consider this. More than likely they would put a "Taint of Zerger" on it, and it gives you five negative levels. If you equip it before you hit level 6, you are permadeathed and lose a character slot. :p

Talon_Moonshadow
08-28-2008, 02:50 PM
If there was 100+ top end quests, I might agree with you....but there isn't.

The real problem is people just do the same quests over and over again.

from 4-13 there's just so much SC someone can take!

Milolyen
08-28-2008, 03:12 PM
Here's a compromise that a little different...

How about a 2500 favor reward that gives gear, BOUND TO YOUR ACCOUNT NOT YOUR INDIVIDUAL TOON, that gives you +20% xp to all quests, or a +3 Tome? Its gear so you can choose to wear it or not, but not bound to a specific toon so you can use it to twink if you so choose.

Now before you flip out, consider this...a player does not have to wear this. Once you have 2500 favor, you're a veteran. If you like low quests and don't want to level fast, don't take the xp item, take the tome. But if you don't like to grind, take the item and power level all you want. Win/win for both playstyles. Meanwhile, doesn't affect new players at all.

This helps those who hate leveling low/mid levels, and does nothing to those that don't.

If you are opposed to other people leveling fast...well, not sure why...it doesnt affect you.

I for one would have a heck of a time making this choice (+3 tome or big xp item). I think this would be a neat solution...


Actually in a way it kind of does affect others. Sorry but if you go from lvl 1 - 16 in less than a week (unless you have another char of same class) you will not know that char very well. It takes time and experience to know how to play certain classes. As it is I know of many people that have no clue what their char's can and can't do. I have used this example on the forums in several other threads but is a great example of one not knowing a thing about their char. Capped ranger going through ritual sacrifice. Over half way through I say (trying to be polite and helpfull because he was a guildie at the time) "I don't know why more rangers don't use wild empathy and improved wild empathy" He replies back "Because it is a crappy and I don't want to waist a feat on it" I was just stunned. Not only did he not use a VERY nice ability given to us rangers but he did not even KNOW he had it given to him at lvl 1 and lvl 7. This guy has atleast 3 capped char's.

See that crappy mage that did not know how to manage his agroe very well? That could very well be because he is used to playing his fighter and does not know how to manage it as a mage same goes for a ranger or any class and can go double for a multiclass. Some people see other's great MC char and ask them for advice or choose to copy it and then they suck. This is mostly due to they don't know the char as well as the other person did (or the other is just a better player anyways). Sorry but I expect a certain lvl of skill from a capped char. Currently that skill lvl is rather low and would only get lower if stuff like this is implemented.

I play a great ranger but I am at best a fair cleric and I had him capped back when 10 was the cap and have played him on a regular basis ever since but not nearly as much as I play my ranger. This is the same reason I (and many others) are opposed to a full lvl 16 respec. Yesterday I was a Barb and today I am a Sorc.

Milolyen

Razvan
08-28-2008, 03:18 PM
Actually in a way it kind of does affect others. Sorry but if you go from lvl 1 - 16 in less than a week (unless you have another char of same class) you will not know that char very well. It takes time and experience to know how to play certain classes.


Sorry to burst your bubble, but SOME people DO actually learn FASTER than others....:rolleyes:

krud
08-28-2008, 03:28 PM
People are complaining about mid levels being hard to level. Huh?! From level 4, people hit STK, TR, Gwylans, SC, The Pit, CO6, Deleras, etc. Even if you play these quests one time threw on each difficulty, you're probably looking at a level 9 toon (or higher). As people play these more than once, you make a level 11-12 toon from just these quests, then hit up GH, Tempest Spine, Orchard, Vale, etc. (BTW, the Pit is grossly overlooked. I have soloed it with 2 different level 6 toons, and it's worth killer exp.) And if I misunderstood the mid-level complaint and it was meant that it's hard to find parties... talk to the other people complaining. Chances are, they'd help you out. ;-) If you have a tricked out toon, then start a mission solo and put up an "In Progress" LFM. Believe me. People join. I've done it with TR, CO6, SC, Gwylans, Deleras, and mostly, the Pit.

People are complaining because those are the only quests people run at those levels since the xp elsewhere sux. Everytime there is a complaint about xp at the midlevels, out roll the usual "just run deleras, SC, gwylans, yada, yada, yada... until you hit GH". Typical reply from a power leveler. That's not the point. We don't want to run the same old crapola over and over, we'd just like a little more evening out of experience if we should choose to go off the beaten path. Even casual players like to see themselves advance, but it is frustrating when you spend just as much time as you do in delera's for 1/4 the xp.

skyking613
08-28-2008, 03:36 PM
/Agreed

It's totally true that there is a "dead zone" for grouping in the mid level areas. It's also true that leveling slows way down at level 7ish. But those two things are actually contradictory, not complimentary. If everyone is stuck between 7 and 10, why is it so hard to find a group?

The problem isn't exactly that there its too hard to get xp from 7 to 10. The problem is there is a large chunk of the player population that run out of patience at level 7ish, and just stop leveling their toons. I see this in our guild constantly...people get bored with their lowbies, the going gets tougher in terms of leveling time, and they end up back with their capped toons.

That actually could be addressed by making the xp at those levels more balanced. But I'd also suggest LOWERING the XP on the Gianthold and Vale quests! Yes, I said it, flame away! The leveling is currently faster from 11 to 16 than it is from 7 to 10. I'd suggest raising the 7 to 10 quests, and lowering the 11 thru 16 quests, and you'd see a more level progression without creating an "easy button" to get to capped.

And just to clarify...I don't mean increasing ALL 7 to 10 quests. Stormcleave, Gwylans, etc are just fine. But the bulk are too low. And 16k+ for Madstone? Please, way too high. Level these off a little...

/somewhat signed also

I think the Dead Zone is mainly because people will log on with their mid level characters, see no lfms, try to start there own group. Have a real hard time getting a healer (I know, you don't really need one for most quests) or anybody, get bored waiting and say screw it, I'll run the reaver/hound/shroud again. I know this is what happens too me. Something needs to be done.

Shattergod
08-28-2008, 03:54 PM
I was gunna to normalize the XP across the levels....


but then I got high..

I was going to make it right...

but then I got high..

Now I'm running stormcleave at level 16...

because I got high..

because I got high..

because I got high..

Kambuk
08-28-2008, 03:59 PM
I think if you delete a build and make a new one in the now empty slot you get +50% xp until you hit the total xp of the the deleted build.

Slightly more complicated idea, the new build gets a soulstone trinket item with charges equal to half the xp of the sacrificed build while equiped you get +50% xp and as you get the xp it drains out of the trinket.

Then in the levels you want to burn through quickly you keep it equiped.

I think the XP if fine for new people leveling up but if you decide your build sucks and delete at least you get someting back..

Kambuk

Frodo_Lives
08-28-2008, 04:36 PM
There is already plenty of XP in the game. The problem is that people jump into quests at levels far below the rated quest level.

A person can easily get to L5 just zerging harbor quests through elite. Then get to L7 doing market quests plus some house quests through elite. L7 to L11 is great if you do Delera's, Greymoon/CO6, VON1-6, Threnal and/or possibly TS through elite, then GH for L11-L14, then Vale for L14-L16.

The real problem is that people do SC at L4, Delera's at L4-L5, Greymoon/CO6 at L6, GH at L9, etc and they only do elite as opposed to doing Normal/Hard/Elite for first time bonus xp.


QFT

If you hit the big xp quests at level appropriate times you will find it a snap to get through to level 11. I have characters that reached level 10 very quickly considering how many game hours I've actually played them. I have other characters who zerged through nothing but the good xp and chain quests and get stalled. I am more of an enjoy the journey type of player myself, so capping yet another character isn't something that I feel I need to rush. Level 7 can be just as much fun as level 16.


There is a ton of xp in the game, I really can't see how more is needed over all. I do think that there are a lot of good quests that are completely ignored simply because the time vs. effort is abysmal. I don't mind running a quest where the xp isn't as good as SC or Gwylans but running a quest that takes you twice as long for a third of the xp is a bit obstacle to overcome.

Deathseeker
08-28-2008, 05:01 PM
QFT

If you hit the big xp quests at level appropriate times you will find it a snap to get through to level 11. I have characters that reached level 10 very quickly considering how many game hours I've actually played them. I have other characters who zerged through nothing but the good xp and chain quests and get stalled. I am more of an enjoy the journey type of player myself, so capping yet another character isn't something that I feel I need to rush. Level 7 can be just as much fun as level 16.


There is a ton of xp in the game, I really can't see how more is needed over all. I do think that there are a lot of good quests that are completely ignored simply because the time vs. effort is abysmal. I don't mind running a quest where the xp isn't as good as SC or Gwylans but running a quest that takes you twice as long for a third of the xp is a bit obstacle to overcome.

This is exactly why I think they should not add any new XP overall, but level off and rebalance the quests. Drop SC, Gwylans, Tangleroot, etc a little bit...and raise House K stuff, Caverns, Kobold Assault, etc. Just little rebalancing so effort = xp reward more evenly, and we'll see WAY MORE variety in the pug listings.

Deathseeker
08-28-2008, 05:02 PM
I think if you delete a build and make a new one in the now empty slot you get +50% xp until you hit the total xp of the the deleted build.

Slightly more complicated idea, the new build gets a soulstone trinket item with charges equal to half the xp of the sacrificed build while equiped you get +50% xp and as you get the xp it drains out of the trinket.

Then in the levels you want to burn through quickly you keep it equiped.

I think the XP if fine for new people leveling up but if you decide your build sucks and delete at least you get someting back..

Kambuk

This is a great line of thinking! If they did this, but in a way that it's optional so those looking to "smell the roses" on the way aren't affected, but those who want to powerlevel can, then I think it's a great solution. Along with rebalancing the quests so they are more even in terms of effort vs xp reward.

Razvan
08-29-2008, 07:39 AM
This is exactly why I think they should not add any new XP overall, but level off and rebalance the quests. Drop SC, Gwylans, Tangleroot, etc a little bit...and raise House K stuff, Caverns, Kobold Assault, etc. Just little rebalancing so effort = xp reward more evenly, and we'll see WAY MORE variety in the pug listings.


Yeah, but the way things are now they have all the bases covered: 1) easy to run, high XP quests for the powergamers who want to zerg their way to lev 16? check!; 2) all sort of quests that, granted do not generate as much XP, but are a lot of fun for people who want to take their time and enjoy their characters leveling up? check!

Frankly, if you want pugs that do some of those quests that aren't run very much....get ready for this...PUT UP A LFM!!!

Demitris
08-29-2008, 07:46 AM
Dramatically increase experience between levels four and 13.

My first thought when I read this was "Are you crazy?"

then I thought about it...

And my thought now is "Are you really that crazy?"

XP is easy to get already, perhaps at times too easy, its already bad enough that most players rarely end up running most of the content except for favor as they've been catapulted past it.

Zenako
08-29-2008, 10:32 AM
The main reason a lot of the "other" quests do not get run is that far fewer people know them well.

The difference in EXP is not really that great if you look at it. What is different is since not as many players KNOW those quests as well, it will take longer to complete them than some other quests and the often cited EXP/Min metric kicks in and they come up as being on the short end.

One example is the PIT. If you have someone who KNOWS the quest leading you, it is possible to bang it out pretty quickly for some nice EXP and Favor. Since many players choose to skip it for various reasons, the odds of having a good guide are low and that can lead to those 3 hour tours that terrorize many.

A lot of quests pose obstacles to being handled in the same tactical manner others get handled in. Swiped Signet for example (which if you have not been in it for a while has been nerfed in hardness a lot) is a death wish if you rush headlong and attempt to just dps your way thru. A little CC and stealth and things like that and life is a lot easier. Enemy casters have very poor saves vs Hold spells, or being tripped, etc.

A quest like Faithful Departed can be routinely completed when appropriate tactics are used, it is just that those tactics are NOT the same as you would see used in Stormcleave or any of the other kill every mob in the room type quests.

The other reason the Chain quests get run as much is that when you link them together like that, and get a party going on it, you kinda lock up a whole group for a few hours to do the whole thing. Makes the whole grouping effort a one shot deal. Someone looking to run quests out in Three Barrel Cove for example, can easily find group members leaving after any given quest since most of the quests are one and done (two of them are two parters where you repeat the map with new tougher mobs and most of the time you can get the group to stay for both parts.)

Whatever, in my view there is already plenty of EXP available in the game. The Developers have gone back and tweaked the EXP and Favor rewards on some quests (noteably up in the Necropolis and down in Gianthold) a while back. That helped.

omnific
08-29-2008, 01:16 PM
I think he thinks that it takes too long to level through that mid-range. Once you hit GH the levels fly by, and of course levels 1 - 4 takes almost no time at all.

I admit there is -and always has been- a problem getting roups for those mid levels... even since the level cap was 10 and the mid levels were 6-8....

I think a better fix is more incentive to run those quests at level. either add loot rewards, balance the xp, or limit favor to level range.

I'd like more quests added, that way I have more new stories to experience.

VirieSquichie
08-29-2008, 06:20 PM
I'd like more quests added, that way I have more new stories to experience.

Yeah, I've got to say the leveling-up thing is paling since I've got most of the midrange quests so thoroughly memorized by now...and not just the "popular" ones, either.

It's more interesting when you have a new player along with you, since they'll provide the variables for you through their lack of intimate knowledge of the quests...but not always interesting in good ways. I don't mind getting killed every now and then but it does cut into the time I have available for play. ;)

Lizardgrad89
09-29-2008, 02:47 PM
The trick to avoiding the 7-10 blues is to remember this is a marathon, not a sprint. Sure, you can get a HUGE XP bump if you run Stormcleave at L3, but then what do you run at L7? If you've run SC, GS, etc, all the good XP is used up. You find yourself running all the harbor quests at elite just to get 600-800XP, and at that rate, you'll be L7 for a long time.

I try to run level appropriate quests, and run the good XP ones on Normal multiple times before running Hard and Elite. This way, at L7, all my L7 quests are available.

Also, run all your landscape quests at the highest possible level while getting max XP. Lots of good XP out there, and yeah, it's a grind, but when you walk out in GH for the first time as an 11.2, knowing you can run all the GH quests 3 times on Normal, then Hard & Elite (and also runnng the GH landscape), and walk out as a L14, ready to head over to the Shroud, where you can easily cap, you know you have done it the right way.

And heck, you might not even need to go to the desert or fight that darn Abbott. LOL.

Kistilan
09-29-2008, 05:33 PM
*shudders at the thought of that damn quest*

I'll take you to the end of that quest. It's not that hard. ;) IE I learned the secrets of the fire swamp. Got about 10 successful completions out of 14 attempts. Can run elite.

vyvy3369
09-29-2008, 05:44 PM
What they really need to do is add a premium service to allow purchasing levels. Obviously a lot of people wouldn't want anything to do with it, but everyone enjoys different things about this game. I'd have gladly paid to not have to go through the monotony of leveling up yet another character just to get to the portion of the game that I enjoy.