PDA

View Full Version : Fix the damn caster AI already!



parvo
08-25-2008, 05:50 PM
edited out...

As soon as a caster sees the party and gets line of sight, it shoud start firing off spells. Only if the party closes should it even try to move. There's no reason they should charge, bump into us, turn away and fire spells at the walls! Argggggg!!!! I want my game back!!!!!

Zaodon
08-25-2008, 06:47 PM
I agree, monster casters cast WAY TOO MANY spells.

Please make them stop spamming spells, its annoying.

Denssor
08-26-2008, 02:39 AM
I agree, monster casters cast WAY TOO MANY spells.

Please make them stop spamming spells, its annoying.

Why shouldn't they spam spells? It's no differnt than a sorcerer spaming FoD, PK, FW, Disinagrate, Dancin' Ball is it?

Yeah, it is annoying, but then so is getting hit, and dying. Should they remove those aswell?

Pyromaniac
08-26-2008, 06:29 AM
fire spells at the walls!

You never know when those walls are going to attack - its a pre-emptive strike!

LA_MIKE
08-26-2008, 07:00 AM
..

Yaga_Nub
08-26-2008, 07:05 AM
.... I would lop my own head off. ....

Pretty please with sugar on top.

Venar
08-26-2008, 07:21 AM
I'm a bit torned on the issue.
The AI is kinda bad.
But compared to other games (WoW, WAR, AoC), mobs in DDO are freaking genius.

parvo
08-26-2008, 10:01 PM
I kinda blew it out my ass in the original post. I edited most of it out. Just ****es me off that such shabby AI is being passed off in a game this mature. The game really suffers with enemy casters so lame. And it seems like the updates just keep passing by with no correction...

...Eladrin, please take a look would ya? I know it can be fixed. Earth Elementals don't run up and bump into us before trying to throw Earth Grab.

parvo
08-26-2008, 10:02 PM
Pretty please with sugar on top.

Bah...no cherry?

parvo
08-26-2008, 10:03 PM
double post...

Milolyen
08-27-2008, 10:48 AM
Bah...no cherry?

Pretty sure he has not had a cherry in awhile ... from what Balz told me hehe.

Milolyen

Hafeal
08-27-2008, 11:09 AM
Not quite sure if this is an old issue or if you have a new issue with the last patch?

Is it the unlimited mana and caster speed or targeting issues?


edited out...

As soon as a caster sees the party and gets line of sight, it shoud start firing off spells. Only if the party closes should it even try to move. There's no reason they should charge, bump into us, turn away and fire spells at the walls! Argggggg!!!! I want my game back!!!!!

cdbd3rd
08-27-2008, 11:22 AM
You never know when those walls are going to attack - its a pre-emptive strike!


...especially those sneaky walls hiding back in the "darkness". ;)

Milolyen
08-27-2008, 11:23 AM
Not quite sure if this is an old issue or if you have a new issue with the last patch?

Is it the unlimited mana and caster speed or targeting issues?

He posts a gripe about this every couple of months. The Kobald caster AI is a little screwie in low lvl quests. But it is pretty much only the kobalds that have this issue. He is also really big into Permadeath and so Kobalds probably the mob he sees the most of in the game so he figures it is a game wide thing and not just the small aspect of the game.

The issue is that when the kobald casters agroe you they run in like they are going to melee you and then when they get close enough they then decide to run away and try to cast spells at you instead. If you run at them when they try and cast spells they will then turn to run away from you and the spell they cast ends up hitting a wall instead of you because they are not faceing you. Pretty much every other caster in the game does what he is asking for kobalds to do.

Milolyen

Rameses
08-27-2008, 11:24 AM
Hi, before you get upset over the game. Have you tried Perma-zerg? It's a liberating way to play. ;)

I am, Rameses!

binnsr
08-27-2008, 11:26 AM
He posts a gripe about this every couple of months. The Kobald caster AI is a little screwie in low lvl quests. But it is pretty much only the kobalds that have this issue. He is also really big into Permadeath and so Kobalds probably the mob he sees the most of in the game so he figures it is a game wide thing and not just the small aspect of the game.

The issue is that when the kobald casters agroe you they run in like they are going to melee you and then when they get close enough they then decide to run away and try to cast spells at you instead. If you run at them when they try and cast spells they will then turn to run away from you and the spell they cast ends up hitting a wall instead of you because they are not faceing you. Pretty much every other caster in the game does what he is asking for kobalds to do.

Milolyen

so we should just have all the kobold shamans replaced with minotaur shamans :) imagine the fun of minotaurs in ww :)

Freeman
08-27-2008, 11:26 AM
It isn't just kobolds. I saw this just a few days ago in BAM. Two or three of the dwarven casters ran up, turned around, and all started casting away from us. It gave us plenty of time to smack them down without taking a single point of damage. I've seen it other places as well, but that was just the most obvious instance I remember.

Milolyen
08-27-2008, 11:32 AM
It isn't just kobolds. I saw this just a few days ago in BAM. Two or three of the dwarven casters ran up, turned around, and all started casting away from us. It gave us plenty of time to smack them down without taking a single point of damage. I've seen it other places as well, but that was just the most obvious instance I remember.

Notice I did say pretty much. There are a lot more casters in the game that do not do this than those that do.

Milolyen

Aspenor
08-27-2008, 11:42 AM
type /death fixcasterAI

works for me every time.

Trinarius
08-27-2008, 11:56 AM
It isn't just kobolds. I saw this just a few days ago in BAM. Two or three of the dwarven casters ran up, turned around, and all started casting away from us. It gave us plenty of time to smack them down without taking a single point of damage. I've seen it other places as well, but that was just the most obvious instance I remember.

Heh! Better be careful about that... taking advantage of enemy casters while they're aggro'd on the wall could be considered an ex....t. j/k! ;)

Samadhi
08-27-2008, 12:05 PM
Hi, before you get upset over the game. Have you tried Perma-zerg? It's a liberating way to play. ;)

I am, Rameses!

Freakin awesome :D

Freeman
08-27-2008, 12:19 PM
Heh! Better be careful about that... taking advantage of enemy casters while they're aggro'd on the wall could be considered an ex....t. j/k! ;)

Actually, a bug in their client makes it appear that we've just randomly teleported into a wall. Just like us, they start hitting the wall with any spell they have to try to kill the pesky PCs. After all, everyone knows if they can't kill it, they'd be better off restarting the quest instead of waiting for a DM :p

Phineasj
08-27-2008, 12:50 PM
Hi, before you get upset over the game. Have you tried Perma-zerg? It's a liberating way to play. ;)

I am, Rameses!

hahahahaha!!!!

I bet that one went over like a fart in church over at the Parvo compound!!

ArkoHighStar
08-27-2008, 01:00 PM
Hi, before you get upset over the game. Have you tried Perma-zerg? It's a liberating way to play. ;)

I am, Rameses!

yes perma zerg has made me see the game in a whole new light multiple deaths per quests makes me feel so alive and thus my new motto "If you ain't dying you ain't trying'

parvo
08-27-2008, 04:22 PM
He posts a gripe about this every couple of months. The Kobald caster AI is a little screwie in low lvl quests. But it is pretty much only the kobalds that have this issue. He is also really big into Permadeath and so Kobalds probably the mob he sees the most of in the game so he figures it is a game wide thing and not just the small aspect of the game.

The issue is that when the kobald casters agroe you they run in like they are going to melee you and then when they get close enough they then decide to run away and try to cast spells at you instead. If you run at them when they try and cast spells they will then turn to run away from you and the spell they cast ends up hitting a wall instead of you because they are not faceing you. Pretty much every other caster in the game does what he is asking for kobalds to do.

Milolyen

Dude, we ran CO6 elite recently and the caster AI is the same as all the other Caster AI. Pay attention to the caster AI and you will see the same thing everywhere. Same with archers.

parvo
08-27-2008, 04:23 PM
Notice I did say pretty much. There are a lot more casters in the game that do not do this than those that do.

Milolyen

If you really haven't noticed that almost every caster in the game moves into melee range before casting a spell, kindly omit yourself from the discussion. Go pay attention while running some quests then come back.

parvo
08-27-2008, 04:50 PM
hahahahaha!!!!

I bet that one went over like a fart in church over at the Parvo compound!!

Funny thing...my son recently convinced my priest to pull his finger. I thought it was hillarious :)

Beherit_Baphomar
08-27-2008, 04:55 PM
Go pay attention while running some quests then come back.

Pay attention???

Dont get it...

Must be a permadeath thing...

Milolyen
08-28-2008, 01:26 PM
Dude, we ran CO6 elite recently and the caster AI is the same as all the other Caster AI. Pay attention to the caster AI and you will see the same thing everywhere. Same with archers.

I have been through CO6 many times and what they are trying to do is GET OUT of melee range. Ever see a ranger ... let me refrase that ... a GOOD ranger just stand there a take a beating while still useing his bow? or a GOOD caster just stand in his fire walls hopeing his fire wall kills the mob before the mob kills him? No you haven't and you won't ... the ranged and casters run to get away from the melee but don't have the ability to "kite" like we do so they have to turn and run. If my memory serves me correctly(which it usually does), the humans (or elves if that is what they are) in CO6 usually cast a buff as soon as they see you coming, then the fighter/wizards will run forward and attack once or twice then fall back to do a scorching ray or some other offensive spell, the wizards will continue to cast offensive magic ... they may take a few steps towards or away from you depending on how far away they are. Casters have a prefered distance in which to cast from, if you run at them they will try and run away and if you run away from them they will run after you. In both cases they will continue to try and cast spells.

The main difference they could do would be to put in code that basically says "if attempting to cast spell finish spell and then run else run" It may not even be close to being that simple to implement but that would be the basic idea. Spell casters like to cast from a distance those that prefer ranged weapons like to use those weapons from a distance. Can't fault the ai for acting the same way.

Milolyen

Beherit_Baphomar
08-28-2008, 01:30 PM
Milo,

I believe Parvo knows what they are supposed to be doing, but its not what they are doing.

Casters, once the aggro has been activated (coming into sight, attacking etc.) will run up to you, kinda bump into you
and then run away to range you.

What this does is give ample opportunity to take that caster out before they've even turned back around to attack.
Its broke. The caster doesnt need to run up to you, they dont need to make sure yer an enemy.

What Parvo wants, I believe, is casters to attack on sight. They dont have to move, they can cast first, move second.
In fact they used to...Im not sure when Turbine broke them (MOD4?) but they are basically useless now.

Milolyen
08-28-2008, 01:37 PM
If you really haven't noticed that almost every caster in the game moves into melee range before casting a spell, kindly omit yourself from the discussion. Go pay attention while running some quests then come back.

If you have not noticed that casters have a prefered distance from target then you do not pay as close attention to things as you say you do. It is not the fact that they are neccessarily moveing to melee range more than they are moveing to their prefered casting distance but then you rushed them so that prefered casting distance is now in the opposite direction. If you want proof ... next time one of your higher lvl PD char's die don't delete him right away. Take him into the different quests and even CO6. Slowly walk up not in sneak mode till you get a casters attention. Do not charge the caster and just stand there takeing the spells. They will move to a certain distance away and then start casting ... you move toward them they turn and run till they hit that distance and then continue to cast. You move away and they will move toward you. Think of it as casters want to be as close as possible to you but have a huge personal space bubble.

*edit* I did say that Kobalds are screwie in the fact that they will sometimes bump you anyways dispite not rushing them but they also tend to melee a bit more than the other casters do as well and it prolly has to do with that.

Milolyen

Merkinsal
08-28-2008, 01:46 PM
In POP the clerics and wizards run right up into the group before they do anything. They must be those battle wizards and battle clerics. >_>

parvo
08-28-2008, 06:21 PM
I have been through CO6 many times and what they are trying to do is GET OUT of melee range. Ever see a ranger ... let me refrase that ... a GOOD ranger just stand there a take a beating while still useing his bow? or a GOOD caster just stand in his fire walls hopeing his fire wall kills the mob before the mob kills him? No you haven't and you won't ... the ranged and casters run to get away from the melee but don't have the ability to "kite" like we do so they have to turn and run. If my memory serves me correctly(which it usually does), the humans (or elves if that is what they are) in CO6 usually cast a buff as soon as they see you coming, then the fighter/wizards will run forward and attack once or twice then fall back to do a scorching ray or some other offensive spell, the wizards will continue to cast offensive magic ... they may take a few steps towards or away from you depending on how far away they are. Casters have a prefered distance in which to cast from, if you run at them they will try and run away and if you run away from them they will run after you. In both cases they will continue to try and cast spells.

The main difference they could do would be to put in code that basically says "if attempting to cast spell finish spell and then run else run" It may not even be close to being that simple to implement but that would be the basic idea. Spell casters like to cast from a distance those that prefer ranged weapons like to use those weapons from a distance. Can't fault the ai for acting the same way.

Milolyen

Your memory does not serve you correctly. Every caster in CO6 moves up into melee range first.

parvo
08-28-2008, 06:33 PM
If you have not noticed that casters have a prefered distance from target then you do not pay as close attention to things as you say you do. It is not the fact that they are neccessarily moveing to melee range more than they are moveing to their prefered casting distance but then you rushed them so that prefered casting distance is now in the opposite direction. If you want proof ... next time one of your higher lvl PD char's die don't delete him right away. Take him into the different quests and even CO6. Slowly walk up not in sneak mode till you get a casters attention. Do not charge the caster and just stand there takeing the spells. They will move to a certain distance away and then start casting ... you move toward them they turn and run till they hit that distance and then continue to cast. You move away and they will move toward you. Think of it as casters want to be as close as possible to you but have a huge personal space bubble.

*edit* I did say that Kobalds are screwie in the fact that they will sometimes bump you anyways dispite not rushing them but they also tend to melee a bit more than the other casters do as well and it prolly has to do with that.

Milolyen

Mil, it makes no difference whether or not you rush them. Amost every caster in the game moves up into melee range. It's been like that for months now.