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Leyoni
08-06-2008, 08:28 AM
There was an earlier thread on max AC. In that thread was this:


For an intimidate build, a solid place to start off of a pure fighter platform is 61 AC unbuffed, nondispellable, unboosted. Multiclass builds splashed with paladin can get higher, but the basic principle is the same.

10 Base
13 +5 MFP
6 Dex bonus (22 DEX, Fighter Armor Mastery III enhancement)
5 Protection
6 Dodge (1 feat, 3 Chattering Ring, 2 Chaosgarde)
4 Insight (Shroud Item)
5 CE
9 +5 MTS (Fighter Tower Shield Mastery II enhancement)
3 Natural (Seal of the Earth)

Off of this platform you can reach 73 with Haste, Inspire Heroics, a full barkskin, and a pally aura.

For a pure DPS fighter, I would say 47, even a point or two lower, is pretty reasonable (basically just dropping the +5 MTS and CE from the above).

My question is: What crafted items would a sword & board fighter have that would boost AC?

Along with that question, I have another: What class splashes will boost a sword & board fighter's AC? I understand the Paladin splash, but I'm not very familiar with Monk splashes.

Lastly, for this all to work and still have a reasonably capable DPS output I'm guessing that you need to start with a minimum of 14 DEX (13 now that we can get +3 tomes), max STR (or close to it), a minimum of 11 INT (again, 10 with +3 tomes), and the balance of your starting build points tossed into CON. Would that be accurate? Is it different if you take a monk splash (don't you want some WIS?)?

Oh, really last, does it help to be halfling for the innate +1?

Thx

Uproar
08-06-2008, 08:37 AM
Monk splashes can boosts A/C if your wisdom is +1 or better. Monks get an A/C boost of 1 per wisdom bonus. You do not need to be centered to get this bonus.

Leyoni
08-06-2008, 08:41 AM
Thx. So a L1 monk splash is all that is ever needed as long as you are getting + to WIS. And, since items are around a starting WIS of 8 with a +2 tome and +6 item gives as much as a +3 AC boost.

That means the 61 jumps to 64 AC just by taking the AC boost granted by the L1 monk splash.

Is that correct?

Korvek
08-06-2008, 08:45 AM
Thx. So a L1 monk splash is all that is ever needed as long as you are getting + to WIS. And, since items are around a starting WIS of 8 with a +2 tome and +6 item gives as much as a +3 AC boost.

That means the 61 jumps to 64 AC just by taking the AC boost granted by the L1 monk splash.

Is that correct?

You can't wear armor and still get the wisdom bonus though.

Thrudh
08-06-2008, 08:47 AM
Thx. So a L1 monk splash is all that is ever needed as long as you are getting + to WIS. And, since items are around a starting WIS of 8 with a +2 tome and +6 item gives as much as a +3 AC boost.

That means the 61 jumps to 64 AC just by taking the AC boost granted by the L1 monk splash.

Is that correct?

No, that doesn't work... because you don't get the armor boost if you're wearing armor, a shield, or encumbered...

So a monk splash will not work for a fighter wearing plate and/or using a shield...

Monk splash helps rangers/rogues or anyone else wearing robes and two weapon fighting...

Borror0
08-06-2008, 08:51 AM
My question is: What crafted items would a sword & board fighter have that would boost AC?

Mineral II - You'll want that +4 AC as often as possible.


I'm guessing that you need to start with a minimum of 14 DEX (13 now that we can get +3 tomes)

The rule is "Enough Dex to fill whatever armor/shield you're going to wear/wield with whatever enhancement you'll get to raise the MDB."


max STR (or close to it)

15-16 Str, more than that is a waste. You could use it better elsewhere.


a minimum of 11 INT (again, 10 with +3 tomes)

Exact.


The balance of your starting build points tossed into CON.

I'd say, get at least 14 Con.


Oh, really last, does it help to be halfling for the innate +1?

The penalty to Intimidate hurts though. And if you don't have Intimidate, you're gimped!

Really, the bonus is nice... but not overwhelming. Otherraces are better for S&B tanks.

Leyoni
08-06-2008, 08:53 AM
Ok, so that means a L1 monk splash doesn't help AC.

The better splash is L3 paladin then for a +2 to AC (including enhancements) and as a halfling for the automatic +1 for the net +3 AC boost. Is that right?

Was hoping these would stack to the Monk boost for a net +6 (taking the AC to 67) and then that I'd be able to add in some crafted items to jump over 70.

Angelus_dead
08-06-2008, 08:53 AM
My question is: What crafted items would a sword & board fighter have that would boost AC?
As listed in your pasted AC breakdown, it's a weapon of +4 AC.

That's commonly something like
+5 Holy Acid Burst Transmuting Green Steel Khopesh of +4 AC (the Mineral II weapon)

Some players will choose Holy Shocking Burst Lightning Strike instead, but you can get +4 AC as the tier3 effect of any weapon.

Leyoni
08-06-2008, 08:55 AM
Thanks for the heads up on intimidate for the halfling. I'd already figured you have to max out on that.

I'm assuming it is alright to go with starting CHA or close to it. Is that wrong?

Leyoni
08-06-2008, 08:58 AM
As listed in your pasted AC breakdown, it's a weapon of +4 AC.

That's commonly something like
+5 Holy Acid Burst Transmuting Green Steel Khopesh of +4 AC (the Mineral II weapon)

Some players will choose Holy Shocking Burst Lightning Strike instead, but you can get +4 AC as the tier3 effect of any weapon.

Ah, didn't really catch that.

So when someone posts about an unbuffed AC above 61-64 that's probably just fantasy?

Is the gear list from the original quote wrong?

Thx again.

Edit: Or will the tier III stack with the mineral II for a net +8?

Leyoni
08-06-2008, 09:01 AM
Monk splash helps rangers/rogues or anyone else wearing robes and two weapon fighting...

Do these hit the 61-64 AC range unbuffed (and not taking into account things like favored enemy enhancements, which are situational)?

Leyoni
08-06-2008, 09:05 AM
And yet another question.

Does a stability item (useable by true neutral) stack with Shroud insight bonuses? Obviously that would cut out paladin splashes.

My vague recollection is that stability items are insight bonuses (meaning they wouldn't stack?).

rimble
08-06-2008, 09:06 AM
Do these hit the 61-64 AC range unbuffed (and not taking into account things like favored enemy enhancements, which are situational)?

Since I have this readily available because I've been working on mine...Halfling 12 Ranger/3 Paladin/1 Monk, dubbed the Iron Monk in the Ranger forums (credit to whoever started that thread):

AC
10 Base
12 Dexterity
6 Wisdom
7 Armor Bracers AC 7
1 Alchemical
5 Protection
1 Dodge Feat
1 Two-Weapon Defense Feat
2 Tempest Enhancement
2 Paladin Aura
1 Halfling Size
5 Combat Expertise
5 Natural, Barkskin
----------------------------------
58 + 2 vs Favored Enemies

4 Dodge, Icy Raiment
4 Greensteel Insight
3 Chattering Ring
1 Armored Bracers AC 8
----------------------------------
70 +2 vs Favored Enemies

3 Maximum Paladin Aura
1 Haste Spell
4 Shield Spell
----------------------------------
78 + 2 vs Favored Enemies

None of those three classes provide Intimidate as a class skill though, and he's further penalized for being a Halfling...so I haven't bothered to raise Intimidate.

debo
08-06-2008, 09:07 AM
The penalty to Intimidate hurts though. And if you don't have Intimidate, you're gimped!



Well.. at least that is better then extremely gimped.

Borro0 is seeing the light!

Uproar
08-06-2008, 09:15 AM
I am sorry for my earlier comment implying armor did not matter. It does. I forgot that only uncentered due to weapons still gave A/C boost.
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=152298&highlight=uncentered

Borror0
08-06-2008, 09:29 AM
As listed in your pasted AC breakdown, it's a weapon of +4 AC.

That's commonly something like
+5 Holy Acid Burst Transmuting Green Steel Khopesh of +4 AC (the Mineral II weapon)

You forgot Slicing and Keen.:D


Well.. at least that is better then extremely gimped.

Borro0 is seeing the light!

Bah, gimped.. extremely gimped... we're talking about S&B anyway. We're "gimped" from the start compared to TWF.

Sue_Dark
08-06-2008, 09:56 AM
Hmm... L8 Rogue/1 Ranger

+5 mith chain shirt
23 dex (havent added any +dex items yet)
+5 mith hvy shield
Dodge feat
+3 bark pots
Haste pots (situationally, usually to get there faster more than to increase AC)
+4 deflection Iron manacles
+1 protection cloak
+6 Imp Uncanny Dodge (situational again, emergency use mostly)

Note- no raid gear, no CE, none of these crazy things, not even a +dex item yet

Normal AC is around 39, 41 with pot bark (i have a +1 nat armor necklace). I have Daggertooth's belt waiting for him and multiple +6 Stat items beyond that. One day, the Devs will choose to fix the armor and shield alchemies, and who knows... I might just get LUCKY (read- SoE, CR, etc etc) when I start raiding him.

EKKM
08-06-2008, 10:03 AM
Hmm... L8 Rogue/1 Ranger

+5 mith chain shirt
23 dex (havent added any +dex items yet)
+5 mith hvy shield
Dodge feat
+3 bark pots
Haste pots (situationally, usually to get there faster more than to increase AC)
+4 deflection Iron manacles
+1 protection cloak
+6 Imp Uncanny Dodge (situational again, emergency use mostly)

Note- no raid gear, no CE, none of these crazy things, not even a +dex item yet

Normal AC is around 39, 41 with pot bark (i have a +1 nat armor necklace). I have Daggertooth's belt waiting for him and multiple +6 Stat items beyond that. One day, the Devs will choose to fix the armor and shield alchemies, and who knows... I might just get LUCKY (read- SoE, CR, etc etc) when I start raiding him.

I think the +1 from the protection cloak is a deflection bonus so will not stack with the iron manacles which you indicate is also a deflection bonus

Borror0
08-06-2008, 10:13 AM
+4 deflection Iron manacles
+1 protection cloak

These two do not stack.

Blazer
08-06-2008, 10:53 AM
So when someone posts about an unbuffed AC above 61-64 that's probably just fantasy?

Is the gear list from the original quote wrong?

Thx again.

Edit: Or will the tier III stack with the mineral II for a net +8?

Keep in mind, when I posted that originally, the discussion was around a fighter platform primarily, a fighter with intimdate as well. There are other permutations that can achieve higher AC but not have intimidate (primarily the ultra high DEX ranger/monk builds you're seeing). Dexxan has a primarily pally build that sits at about 64-68ish unbuffed, due to CE, full (or nearly full) pally aura, as well as being dwarf (thus access to dwarven armor mastery).

The gear list you posted is not wrong, it's the exact items I'm wearing on my tank. Sometimes I wear the Seal of the Earth, sometimes I don't and just drink bark pots (or if I am getting barkskin from a ranger I won't wear it either).

Clarification on tier III and mineral II. They won't stack since they're the same thing (+4 insight bonus to AC). The Tier III is the tier when you get the +4 to AC. The type of weapon most people advocate building is mineral II (the double shard earth/positive to get transmuting) and they mean when you assemble that third tier, you take the +4 AC on that tier.

Illuminati
08-06-2008, 11:42 AM
If that build could taunt it would be nerfed fast =p


Since I have this readily available because I've been working on mine...Halfling 12 Ranger/3 Paladin/1 Monk, dubbed the Iron Monk in the Ranger forums (credit to whoever started that thread):

AC
10 Base
12 Dexterity
6 Wisdom
7 Armor Bracers AC 7
1 Alchemical
5 Protection
1 Dodge Feat
1 Two-Weapon Defense Feat
2 Tempest Enhancement
2 Paladin Aura
1 Halfling Size
5 Combat Expertise
5 Natural, Barkskin
----------------------------------
58 + 2 vs Favored Enemies

4 Dodge, Icy Raiment
4 Greensteel Insight
3 Chattering Ring
1 Armored Bracers AC 8
----------------------------------
70 +2 vs Favored Enemies

3 Maximum Paladin Aura
1 Haste Spell
4 Shield Spell
----------------------------------
78 + 2 vs Favored Enemies

None of those three classes provide Intimidate as a class skill though, and he's further penalized for being a Halfling...so I haven't bothered to raise Intimidate.

rimble
08-06-2008, 01:50 PM
If that build could taunt it would be nerfed fast =p

Yeah, going Fighter doesn't lose you a whole lot...-2 AC and -5ish Saves...and you can use the bonus Fighter feats to shuffle things around and take Iron Will and Bullheaded to make up for the Will saves at least...was gonna wait until level 10 to decide if I want to do that. Then it's a matter of possibly going Elven instead of Halfling to avoid the -4 Intimidate there...and that's another -1 AC...decisions decisions. Ah hell, I mighta just convinced myself to start over again...*grumble* Or of course Rogue is an option...aaaah!

Illuminati
08-06-2008, 02:07 PM
I have that build on paper (12 Ranger / 2 Fighter / 2 Monk).

Just remember no shield DR / when taunting since you are TWF'ing so mind your AC or buff your HP.

Blazer
08-06-2008, 02:35 PM
If that build could taunt it would be nerfed fast =p

Who cares if it can taunt, it can do flips in mid air! :p

Leyoni
08-06-2008, 02:56 PM
Thanks rimble for your post. A couple of things.

I notice that you include barkskin, haste and shield spell. These are all buffs, yes? And, you indicate a max +3 paladin aura. That isn't a buff (technically I suppose) but you are not providing it yourself with a paladin 3 splash, right? So, it sort of acts like a buff and it is situational.

My question was about unbuffed, unsituational, AC. So, take away 11 from your 78 and that's 67 AC isn't it?

Now, that is more than the 64 top level AC of the fighter/paladin. But, without the intimidate, right?

And, if you drop the monk splash to get fighter or rogue you lose the +6 WIS bonus lowering the AC to 61 -- just where the original quote was. The other option would be to drop the paladin for fighter as you are getting only a +2 to AC from there, lowering the AC to 65. That is 1 point higher but you'll be able to grab intimidate. In either case, you lose the DR from not carrying a shield (how important is that?).

So, should the main tank have the 64 AC with intimidate or the 65-67 AC without? Should he have the DR from carrying the shield or not?

My assumption is that the intimidate fighter is grabbing aggro primarily by his intimidate and then turtling up for a short while as the other DPS folk pass out damage. OTOH, the ranger build is grabbing aggro primarily by his DPS and things like being the first one sighted (exploiting the hate system). Are those good assumptions?

Which is more important? I'm guessing the intimidate since you can spam that and pull aggression back to you after the DPS guys cause a hate shift or the intimidate timer runs out.

Last question (for this post). Does the +1 halfling AC bonus outweight the -4 intimidate reduction? I didn't see anything in the original gear list that boosted intimidate, but I know that the items are out there and there seems to be plenty of room in the gear list for additional items.

thx

iruka41
08-06-2008, 03:29 PM
Sword and board needs intimidate to tank. Cause he can't out-DPS. It's easy to get.
But Intimidate is an AoE, so it have huge benefit over DPS-aggroing unless you're dealing with boss mobs.

DEX/WIS monk splash has much higher AC, so it negates some needs for DR.
For Intimidate, it doesn't matter when dealing with a single or couple mobs,
but against horde of mobs, quite a useless tank compared to Intimitanks.

If tanking is against every mobs, both builds SHOULD consider Evasion too.
Otherwise it's kinda half-tank IMO.

Both builds (S/B or Monk-splash) can have Evasion and high Intimidate with the right build.
(i.e. splash of rogue, monk, monk/fighter, monk/rogue, etc)

IMO the best tank is the one with all of high AC, high saves, Evasion, decent HP, Intimidate.

DR(A.K.A. shield block) is an option when your 'totally maxed' AC can't be around 70s.
Self-healing ability is another plus. (i.e. Quickend Cure/Repair, Lay on Hands, Halfling Dragonmarks)

Blazer
08-06-2008, 03:30 PM
So, should the main tank have the 64 AC with intimidate or the 65-67 AC without? Should he have the DR from carrying the shield or not?

Tough question. I prefer the main tank to have the AC with the intimidate because intim is flawless (assuming one has one's skill high enough). Trying to gain/hold aggro via DPS can be difficult.


My assumption is that the intimidate fighter is grabbing aggro primarily by his intimidate and then turtling up for a short while as the other DPS folk pass out damage. OTOH, the ranger build is grabbing aggro primarily by his DPS and things like being the first one sighted (exploiting the hate system). Are those good assumptions?

Yep, this is pretty much spot on. The only note I would make is if the intimidate fighter has the AC floored to the point he's only getting hit on 20s, he doesn't have to turtle up, he can keep swinging away as well.


Which is more important? I'm guessing the intimidate since you can spam that and pull aggression back to you after the DPS guys cause a hate shift or the intimidate timer runs out.

Again, tough to say which is more important; call it more a matter of preference. I prefer intim since it is flawless and instant. That ranger can be dishing out 100s of points of damage to the monster but the second I get near and click intimidate, that monster is immediately turned on me and won't leave me alone until that 6 second aggro lock is up.


Last question (for this post). Does the +1 halfling AC bonus outweight the -4 intimidate reduction? I didn't see anything in the original gear list that boosted intimidate, but I know that the items are out there and there seems to be plenty of room in the gear list for additional items.

Again, tough to say. I guess it depends on what your goals would be with intimidate. The -4 does hurt on the current "endgame" raid bosses, since they're all at least one size modifier above the medium class creatures. So that's at least a -8 for a halfling. Now, halflings do get some other very nice benefits as well, beyond the +1 AC that make them a desirable race. For what it's worth, my human intim build usually runs around at 53 intimidate, but can get to 59 (+6 CHA skills shroud item) and can HV boost to 64. I'm using a +15 intimidate helmet, which yes, was not listed on the original gear list since that was an AC breakdown.

iruka41
08-06-2008, 03:39 PM
FYI,

I'm biulding an Intimitank myself, a Dwarven 8Ftr/6Pal/2Mnk, a S&B.
Stat is 16/14/15/13/8/12, currently at level7.

Will use Mithral Breastplate and Tower Shield,
Looking at 62 self-buffed AC,
Maxed DR thru Feats and Dwarven Enhancements,
Maxed Intimidate with Feats and decent CHA,
Evasion with pally saves (all over 30s),
Decent HP thru Dwarven/Fighter Toughness,
Ability to self-heal with Lay on Hands,
Ability to use some tactics (Stun, Imp.Trip).

If that helps :)

Gratch
08-06-2008, 04:06 PM
My Batman-based evada-inimitank with with 52 Intim sits at:

__AC__
10 Base
16 Delving Suit
2 armor mastery II (dex of 26 req)
1 dodge feat
2 self paly aura
5 +5 prot item
7 +5 Large Shield (Blocking DR15 Hound "cleric" shield is best)
2 chaosguardes
3 +3 Ac bark potion or seal of earth
5 combat expertise
3 Chattering Ring
4 Shroud Insight weapon
60

_Self Boosts available_
+5 HV AC boost (20s)
+4 Uncanny Dodge boost (15s)
+1 Haste (shroud cast)
+2 Recitation (wand cast - longer from clerics)
+1 Madstone Rage (+4 natural)

_Boosts from Others_
+4 Bard Inspire Heroics
+2 Full Ranger Barkskin (+5 natural)
+3 Full Paladin Aura
+4 Halfling Heroes Companion (which I get from a guildy sometimes - just listing it since it's a possible stacking source)

_Future Boosts_
+2 Dodge bonus once they fix the armor and shield +1 eldritch rituals. (they will be dodge bonuses according to dev post).

Which in actually sits at about a 69 during VoD or Hound main tanking because you can hopefully get haste, the ranger barkskin, recitation and the bard inspire heroics. It's "tough" to create and plan a toon like this since AC takes a lot of slots... which means you need a lot of slot economy from upper end items like dragon or titan belt. Building a shroud cloak with +5 protect, hvy fort, stoneskin, and extra HP is nice too (but 24 large). Really it's a lot of grind. But fun if you smile everytime you can eek out another +1 AC.

rimble
08-06-2008, 05:10 PM
Thanks rimble for your post. A couple of things.

I notice that you include barkskin, haste and shield spell. These are all buffs, yes? And, you indicate a max +3 paladin aura. That isn't a buff (technically I suppose) but you are not providing it yourself with a paladin 3 splash, right? So, it sort of acts like a buff and it is situational.

My question was about unbuffed, unsituational, AC. So, take away 11 from your 78 and that's 67 AC isn't it?

Now, that is more than the 64 top level AC of the fighter/paladin. But, without the intimidate, right?

Well, I broke it down into three nice chunks I thought:

First chunk: No raid loot, no RR loot, self-buffs: 58 AC. That's pretty good and pretty much guaranteed for any type of player (no raid loot, no mithril full plate, no rare RR stuff)

Second chunk: You start acquiring your uber raid loot and RR loot: Slowly working your way up to 70 AC.

Final chunk: Very situational things: 3 from a max level Paladin aura, 1 from Haste, 4 from Shield. I don't ever consider these really, but they're nice to see written down sometimes.

I don't think 'unbuffed' is a fair comparison when you're capable of dropping +5 Barkskin on yourself...'self-buffed' is more applicable. This is a self-buffed easy to attain 58 AC. Self-buffed alot harder to attain 70 AC.


And, if you drop the monk splash to get fighter or rogue you lose the +6 WIS bonus lowering the AC to 61 -- just where the original quote was. The other option would be to drop the paladin for fighter as you are getting only a +2 to AC from there, lowering the AC to 65. That is 1 point higher but you'll be able to grab intimidate. In either case, you lose the DR from not carrying a shield (how important is that?).

The Monk Wis AC is too crucial. I've just worked out an alternate 12 Ranger/2 Fighter/2 Monk. He'll have -3 AC (-2 from no Paladin aura, -1 from not being Halfling) and about -5 Saves. The AC is unrecoverable, the saves can be made up by using the three extra Feats from Fighter 2 and Monk 2 (we already had Monk 1 so we had one of those Feats accounted for already) to take Iron Will and Bullheaded and things like that. So -3 AC (67 uber high-end AC), relatively comparable saves, Evasion, and full Intimidate now.

Shield DR only applies when you're actively blocking. Although he won't have the Shield Mastery Feats and Enhancements, the 12 Ranger/2 Fighter/2 Monk is just as capable of whipping out a big Tower Shield and turtling up behind it when necessary. During most normal play he'll be fine continuing to TWF and Intimidate with his 67 (uber geared) AC (and Evasion!).


My assumption is that the intimidate fighter is grabbing aggro primarily by his intimidate and then turtling up for a short while as the other DPS folk pass out damage. OTOH, the ranger build is grabbing aggro primarily by his DPS and things like being the first one sighted (exploiting the hate system). Are those good assumptions?

That's generally true. However, there is nothing quite so frustrating as being a mediocre-DPS Intimitank and fighting undead, vermin, and other hard to--or impossible to--Intimidate enemies. Utterly useless.

The S&B guys have inferior DPS and now inferior AC...I've given up...


Last question (for this post). Does the +1 halfling AC bonus outweight the -4 intimidate reduction? I didn't see anything in the original gear list that boosted intimidate, but I know that the items are out there and there seems to be plenty of room in the gear list for additional items.

Some people say it's okay, it depends on what level you want to play. Top end Elite content that -4 could make all the difference, it's hard to say, I don't generally run in those circles, people get too intense there.

Good luck.

Leyoni
08-06-2008, 06:15 PM
Thx again rimble for your analysis.

It looks like the ranger/fighter/monk build gets the AC and intimidate. Bonus is that he is also higher DPS due to TWF. If he adds the mithral tower shield he loses the 6 AC WIS bonus but gains 8 AC from the shield (with tower shield mastery I) for a net 2 AC boost.

I guess the only other thing to consider is whether a figher/monk build using the same equipment and spending the fighter bonus feats on TWF line would be better.

It looks to me the ranger line gets you a couple of key things: some self buffing, including barkskin; favored enemy enhancements; self healing; evasion. OTOH, the fighter line would get you a few more HP and more feats.

Looks on the surface that the ranger line would be better.

Now the really hard part of this -- what race? 32 point dwarf seems good but takes a CHR hit. Drow seems good as it doubles up on DEX enhancements and has naturally high CHR. Elf seems as good as Drow with 32 point build but the enhancement options might be a more important factor.

Alright, that's about it for this post.

Thx again.

Lifespawn
08-18-2008, 02:41 PM
FYI,

I'm biulding an Intimitank myself, a Dwarven 8Ftr/6Pal/2Mnk, a S&B.
Stat is 16/14/15/13/8/12, currently at level7.

Will use Mithral Breastplate and Tower Shield,
Looking at 62 self-buffed AC,
Maxed DR thru Feats and Dwarven Enhancements,
Maxed Intimidate with Feats and decent CHA,
Evasion with pally saves (all over 30s),
Decent HP thru Dwarven/Fighter Toughness,
Ability to self-heal with Lay on Hands,
Ability to use some tactics (Stun, Imp.Trip).

If that helps :)


no evasion for you with breastplate or shield monks can't use either of them and keep any monk bonuses

rimble
08-18-2008, 03:00 PM
no evasion for you with breastplate or shield monks can't use either of them and keep any monk bonuses

Evasion is Evasion, it works the same whether you're a Monk, Rogue, or Ranger--it works in Light Armor.

Lifespawn
08-18-2008, 03:42 PM
Evasion is Evasion, it works the same whether you're a Monk, Rogue, or Ranger--it works in Light Armor.

incorrect monks don't get evasion if they wear armor or shields

rimble
08-18-2008, 03:43 PM
incorrect monks don't get evasion if they wear armor or shields

Too bad you can't see me, I'm doing a really good "you're wrong" dance.

Lifespawn
08-18-2008, 03:50 PM
Too bad you can't see me, I'm doing a really good "you're wrong" dance.

i'm under the impression that monks have to be unencumbered and have no armor or shields to keep the monk evasion but don't have to be centeredeither way not my build so don't really care

rimble
08-18-2008, 03:54 PM
i'm under the impression that monks have to be unencumbered and have no armor or shields to keep the monk evasion but don't have to be centeredeither way not my build so don't really care

Not trying to start anything, just trying to keep misinformation in check.

Borror0
08-18-2008, 03:55 PM
i'm under the impression that monks have to be unencumbered and have no armor or shields to keep the monk evasion but don't have to be centeredeither way not my build so don't really care

Well, sorry to say this but you're wrong. Evasion is Evasion... monk, ranger rogue... it's Evasion.

Lifespawn
08-18-2008, 03:57 PM
http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Class:Monk says monks can wear no armor or shields and retain class abilities maybe it should be rephrased or updated

rimble
08-18-2008, 04:22 PM
http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Class:Monk says monks can wear no armor or shields and retain class abilities maybe it should be rephrased or updated

Yup, it's ****.

Riekan
08-19-2008, 07:10 AM
You will keep evasion in the Mith Breastplate, but you won't have the Wisdom bonus to AC. You most definately lose that in armor.

Jadeare
08-25-2008, 01:06 AM
I have almost finished building my Halfling AC Evasion Intimitank.

He is atm 10/2/2 Ftr/Rog/Pal

Gets to 60 ac and over in raids. (with a bard and ranger) which is plenty high enough:
- Full Bark
- Heroics song

His intimidate will be high enough to grab the hound when all pieces are in place, ie +15 item Shroud item etc.

Doesnt do much damage but is specced in piercing for stat damage/banish, and specced in slashing/khopeshes for dps.

Has TWF, iTWF GTWF(16) so can stat damage as quickly as non crit raging barbs/tempest rangers when ac is not needed.

Has evasion... will travel.

UMD for whatever, maxed ranks and 20 charisma. Will be good enough for heal scrolls and raise dead in end game. Why walk when you can teleport.

Still need chattering ring (3), shroud weapon (4), shield alchemical ritual (1), FAMIII (1).

Anyway, fun build.