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View Full Version : someone plz explain this to me.



captain1z
07-28-2008, 07:55 PM
So everyone says that if you want a DPS melee, a barb is the way to go.

Barbs get bonus to CON with levels............ fighters get bonus to STR.
Fighters get free feats to support 2hander fighting........... barbs get rage.

Now starting with the same stats all 10

a fighter of 16 levels can bump that to 24 before tomes
a barbarian of 16 lvls can bump that to 21 before tomes

a barb can rage for 4 more pts and get the same bonus to hit/damage for a limited time, but a fighter will have this bonus all the time and have a better AC overall.

How/why is it said that barbs do better dps................. mind you my only experience with a barb is my 10 fighter/ 6 barb.


plz explain and try not to add things that either could just as easily pick up. Like rage pots, a fighter could drink one also and balance out the scales.

thnx. (just trying to understand the allure of smelly barbs)

vyvy3369
07-28-2008, 07:56 PM
Critical Rage

Edit: to be completely fair, barbarian rage does get better with levels & enhancements, but the primary reason is critical rage. At a quick glance through the compendium rages get up to +10 Str @ 12 if you take the enhancements, and it should go up at least another 2 by level 20 IIRC.

Mhykke
07-28-2008, 07:59 PM
Barbs get greater rage, and rage enhancements that increase your str when raged (also enhancements to con when raged, as well as number of rages per rest.)

So if you max str and take rage str enhancements, a barb can increase his str by 10 when raging.

Add in the fact barbs can take crit rage II, which increases the crit range of any weapon you hold by 2.

Oh, and barbs have enough feats to support THF'ing, or TWF'ing.

Also, mentioned below, power attack enhancements.


And if you are looking into DPS melee, also look into str based tempest rangers.

DaveyCrockett
07-28-2008, 08:00 PM
Indeed Critical Rage II. Swing your 19-20 crit greataxe. Barb swings his 17-20 crit greataxe.

Stop at 14 Barbarian, and finish Ranger. Enjoy your tempest barbarian beast. :D (at level 20, of course)

Oran_Lathor
07-28-2008, 08:00 PM
Critical rage, and, to a far lesser extent, barbarian power attack.

Arianrhod
07-29-2008, 06:48 AM
Also, at the top levels, it seems most barbarians try (often successfully) to stay raged the entire quest, which gives them the "some of the time" rage bonuses all the time. With the right enhancements and high enough con, rage can last a long time; with haste, good knowledge of the quest and a compatible group, quests can go very quickly.

And about that "fighter drinking a rage potion"....well, browse through the compendium a bit and compare the enhancements available for barbarian rage. Fighters get some good enhancements too, but it's harder for them to focus on pure DPS. When you look at all the details, comparing a fighter drinking a rage potion to a fully raged barbarian is kind of like comparing a wizard with the mage armor & shield spells to a fighter with armor & shield...it might look "almost as good" on the surface, but it's not really :D

Aranticus
07-29-2008, 07:07 AM
my human fighter can rage up to 40 str (rage and double madstone)

my human barb can rage up to 40 str (just using barb rage)

my fighter has no PA enhancements

my barb has PA enhancements (+3)

Kris_P._Letus
07-29-2008, 12:04 PM
my barb gets to about 46 str while raged, rage spell, and double madstone.

his con gets up to 48. does madstone give you +2 str, +4 con? thats what im noticing when i pop it...its wierd....

hes got all barb power attacks, and as soon as i respec my enhancments, hell have all wf power attacks as well (missing 1).

your fighter is going to have better ac. congrats. :) i start out with a 28 ac. after all my raging, im down to about 17 i beleive...

Thrudh
07-29-2008, 12:18 PM
It's really all about the Crit Range Enhancement...

Base damage is about the same for barbarians and fighters

Barbarian
18 (starting Strength)
4 (level ups)
2 (tome)
6 (item)
10 rage (with enhancements)

40 Strength = +15 to hit and damage

Fighter
18 (starting Strength)
4 (level ups)
2 (tome)
6 (item)
3 (fighter ability enhancements)

33 Strength = +11 to hit and damage

Fighters have tons of feats though, and can get
Weapon Focus and Greater Weapon Focus +2 to hit
Weapon Specialization and Greater Weapon Specialization +4 to damage

So fighters end up with +13 to hit and +15 damage

So they're pretty much the same on base damage....

Pretty much barbarian's only advantage in DPS is the crit range enhancement (so maybe we shouldn't nerf it, since it's really their main advantage*)

*I would suggest a crit range enhancement at 6,12,18, but it should ONLY apply to damage, not to special effects like puncturing, smiting, etc. AND the barbarian has to choose a weapon class (slashing, ranged, etc.)

thisgamesull
07-29-2008, 01:41 PM
Indeed Critical Rage II. Swing your 19-20 crit greataxe. Barb swings his 17-20 crit greataxe.

Stop at 14 Barbarian, and finish Ranger. Enjoy your tempest barbarian beast. :D (at level 20, of course)

yes this will be the ultimate dps build at lvl 20 cap:D

Hadrian
07-29-2008, 07:49 PM
So fighters end up with +13 to hit and +15 damage

So they're pretty much the same on base damage....




Don't forget the barbarian power attack enhancments, which can add 6 more damage to THF.

Another part of it is that a barbarian is better suited to having low armor class with its innate DR and significantly higher hit point total. Finally, it's easier to get a high will save on an offensively focused barbarian than on a similarly focused fighter.

A fighter could spend lots of feats on toughtness and saves boosts, but then he lacks the room to take all of those offensive feats that make the comparison seem closer in terms of offense.