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RavenStormclaw
07-15-2008, 01:16 PM
So I've grown up one paladin and become a little dissatisifed with him...when my 8/1/1 rogue/bard/ftr can out dps my 12th level paladin I became discouraged. I want to play a Paladin because...well I do. I like the LOH, like self-buffing, I actually like the new Divine sacrafice. I don't like being a poor dps machine. Now pls don't comment on howor good paladins are but plz do comment on ways to improve what I am about to suggest or if it is hopless.

The Holy War Machine: (haven't put it thru character generator yet)
Dwarf 14/2 Paladin/Ftr

The idea I have for him is to forsake some AC for DPS the means by which I plan to achieve this is by going TWF with either Dwarven Axe or battle axe. I also plan to make him con/str based with minimum in wis and chr. The idea is to have plenty of HP to survive and burn on Divine Sacrafice. Spell pts will be for self-healing, minimal buffing only.

This is a basic idea any comments or suggestions welcome.

llevenbaxx
07-15-2008, 03:34 PM
This sounds like a pretty generally acceptable way to build a pally these days. A good deal of what AC comes down to is item, the rest planning. My pal12/ftr4 does pretty good damage but at the cost of a nearly useless(endgame) AC. I dont have all the raid AC items so I could possible get as much as an additional 7-9 AC(i think) which, with buffs could put me into the high 50s at least... partly why I havnt bothered.;)

Alcides
07-15-2008, 10:56 PM
If you're going to go TWF on a paladin you might want to consider drow/32 pt elf/32 pt halfling. It will be much easier to meet the 17 dex requirement for GTWF which you should take if at all possible. Going Dwarf is perfectly acceptable as well but you'll need to start out with a semi high dex depending on how many level up points you are going to invest in dexterity as you level up.

Shaamis
07-22-2008, 06:59 AM
I have been thinking about this build type too.

with a 32 point 12/2/2 paly/rogue/ftr dwarf build: for DPS, not Combat Expertise (unless you get a +3 Int tome:rolleyes:) This character will be geared towards DPS, evasion, and staying power, so enhancements and spells will go to that end. If you spread some of the skill points to disable traps, you could theoretically solo well too.

S: 15 (8) +1 tome, 2 for character levels, +5 Str Item=24
D: 14 (6) +1 tome, 2 for character levels +6 Dex Item= 23
C:14 (4) +1 tome, 2 for racial levels, +6 Con Item= 23
I:10 (1) +1 tome (+3 tome for CE?:rolleyes:), +4 Int Item= 15 (17)
W:13 (5) +1 tome, +6 Wis item=20
Ch:13 (8) +1 tome, +3 paly levels, +6 Cha Item= 23

Feats:
1(rogue)=Die Hard (LOVE this feat, will save your can many times)
2(ftr)=TWF
3(paly)=Toughness
4(paly)=
5(paly)=
6(paly)=ITWF
7(paly)=
8(rogue)=
9(ftr)=GTWF, and Imp Crit Slashing
10(paly)=
11(paly)=
12(paly)=Oversized weapons
13(paly)=
14(paly)=
15(paly)=***Free feat slot***(combat expertise if you can get it)
16(paly)=

My only question is: can you wield TWO Holy Swords at the same time?

Kreaper
07-22-2008, 07:29 AM
I have been thinking about this build type too.

with a 32 point 12/2/2 paly/rogue/ftr dwarf build: for DPS, not Combat Expertise (unless you get a +3 Int tome:rolleyes:) This character will be geared towards DPS, evasion, and staying power, so enhancements and spells will go to that end. If you spread some of the skill points to disable traps, you could theoretically solo well too.

S: 15 (8) +1 tome, 2 for character levels, +5 Str Item=24
D: 14 (6) +1 tome, 2 for character levels +6 Dex Item= 23
C:14 (4) +1 tome, 2 for racial levels, +6 Con Item= 23
I:10 (1) +1 tome (+3 tome for CE?:rolleyes:), +4 Int Item= 15 (17)
W:13 (5) +1 tome, +6 Wis item=20
Ch:13 (8) +1 tome, +3 paly levels, +6 Cha Item= 23

Feats:
1(rogue)=Die Hard (LOVE this feat, will save your can many times)
2(ftr)=TWF
3(paly)=Toughness
4(paly)=
5(paly)=
6(paly)=ITWF
7(paly)=
8(rogue)=
9(ftr)=GTWF, and Imp Crit Slashing
10(paly)=
11(paly)=
12(paly)=Oversized weapons
13(paly)=
14(paly)=
15(paly)=***Free feat slot***(combat expertise if you can get it)
16(paly)=

My only question is: can you wield TWO Holy Swords at the same time?

The first problem with this is that 15, 14, 14, 10, 13, 13 is one too many. The second problem is that you will not be able to take ITWF at lev 6 because of your BAB. You have a 5 but 6 is required. You also will not have 17 dex until level 8. Switch it for Oversize weapons and pick it up at lev 9 with IC slash. The next problem is that GTWF is not available until level 11. With your build it will be level 12.

Artierius
07-22-2008, 10:18 AM
You could drop the 2 rogue if your not looking for rogue skills, and take 2 levels of Monk for the better base saves, 2 free feats, and evasion still. Also it could net you not having to use a wisdom tome for 2 points of monk wis I enhancement, and let you use that wisdom for AC bonus as an option to go armor or no armor for your AC.

Also there is no reason to take Palli Cha III when you end up with an odd number....use the +1 tome and Palli Cha II and save 6 enhancement points there.
You should adjust tome use or +6 item use to make all even numbers unless you run into a plethora of +2 or +3 tomes.

If you go monk you wont need any INT item so as to free up an inventory slot. And if you ever did get lucky enough to get a +3 INT tome you could go back and swap a monk feat out for CE if you like.

Also if you get the 2 monk level you could set yourself up for Springattack ...monk feats would be Dodge / Mobility / and the level 12 feat SA.

Your level progression could go something like this:

1st - Ftr // Feats: TWF and Diehard
2nd - Pali
3th - 4th Monk // Feats: Dodge and Mobility and OsTwf ---Evasion also
5th - 8th Palli // Feat: Toughness
9th - Ftr // ImCrit: Slash and ImTwf (need that +1 Dex tome here to get ImTwf: base dex 17)
10th -16th Palli // Feats: Spring Attack and OPEN

You can't get GtrTwf without having a base 19 DEX I'm pretty sure.

Hope this doesn't change to many things for you ...but there are requirements to take some feats at certain levels and have prerequisites.

Shaamis
07-22-2008, 11:55 AM
S: 15 (8) +1 tome, 2 for character levels, +5 Str Item=24
D: 14 (6) +1 tome, 2 for character levels +6 Dex Item= 23
C:12 (4) +1 tome, +2 racial mod, 2 for racial levels, +6 Con Item= 23
I:9 (1) +1 tome, +4 Int Item= 14 (16)
W:13 (5) +1 tome, +6 Wis item=20
Ch:15 (8) +1 tome, -2 racial mod, +3 paly levels, +6 Cha Item= 23

Feats:
1(rogue)=Die Hard (LOVE this feat, will save your can many times)
2(ftr)=TWF
3(paly)=Toughness
4(paly)=
5(paly)=
6(paly)=Oversized weapons
7(paly)=
8(rogue)=
9(ftr)=ITWF, and Imp Crit Slashing
10(paly)=
11(paly)=
12(paly)=GTWF (but need to squeeze out another 2 base points to meet the minimum req.)
13(paly)=
14(paly)=
15(paly)=***Free feat slot***
16(paly)=

I fixed the error where i had the Int listed at 10, but only one creation point allocated. The feat switch I made should make it legal.

I guess I would really dump this build if the Holy Sword spell only allows one sword at a time, otherwise why go dual wielding?

Shaamis
07-22-2008, 12:01 PM
I'm gonna play witht eh character gen, and see how gross a halfling would be.

Only issue I see with a halfling would be HP

Kreaper
07-29-2008, 06:54 AM
I'm gonna play witht eh character gen, and see how gross a halfling would be.

Only issue I see with a halfling would be HP

How gross? LOL Well it is off to a good start! :D

tomasdarkell
07-29-2008, 07:07 AM
You can dual weild holy sword,my pally does it in shroud :)