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shadow543256
06-26-2008, 09:22 PM
whats the best class for wf? cause i got a wf barb but may remake so wondering if i do remake what class works best

Angelus_dead
06-26-2008, 09:24 PM
whats the best class for wf? cause i got a wf barb but may remake so wondering if i do remake what class works best
Wizard and barbarian are the most popular. Sorc is also pretty popular.

Note that from a general standpoint, you are asking the question backwards: people start out with what class they want to play, and then decide which race would be best for it.

shadow543256
06-26-2008, 09:27 PM
Wizard and barbarian are the most popular. Sorc is also pretty popular.

Note that from a general standpoint, you are asking the question backwards: people start out with what class they want to play, and then decide which race would be best for it.

oh then what class wouldnt work best at all for wf (all ready know race just need to know incase thats what class i want)

Kraldor
06-26-2008, 09:34 PM
oh then what class wouldnt work best at all for wf (all ready know race just need to know incase thats what class i want)

Bards, Clerics, and Paladins seem to be the most unpopular for Warforged.

Angelus_dead
06-26-2008, 09:37 PM
Bards, Clerics, and Paladins seem to be the most unpopular for Warforged.
Also rogues, rangers, or anyone high dex.

And monks, or anyone high wis.

shadow543256
06-26-2008, 09:44 PM
Bards, Clerics, and Paladins seem to be the most unpopular for Warforged.

but for clerics and pallys y they have own thing for wf but they least pop. choice for them

Yaga_Nub
06-26-2008, 09:45 PM
Also rogues, rangers, or anyone high dex.

And monks, or anyone high wis.

WF make excellent STR or DEX rangers.

shadow543256
06-26-2008, 09:47 PM
WF make excellent STR or DEX rangers.

as long as they dont sneak they are cause i think wf have negitave in sneak or something been a while since ive looked

Angelus_dead
06-26-2008, 09:50 PM
WF make excellent STR or DEX rangers.
A warforged is pretty horrible as a dex ranger.

shadow543256
06-26-2008, 09:51 PM
A warforged is pretty horrible as a dex ranger.

have u tried as a dex ranger?

MrCow
06-26-2008, 09:56 PM
as long as they dont sneak they are cause i think wf have negitave in sneak or something been a while since ive looked

Warforged can not remove their plating, so if they take mithril body or adamantine body they will have an inherent armor check penalty. If they are in composite plating then they have no armor check penalty.


have u tried as a dex ranger?

Angelus_Dead is one of the forum metagamers. I'd imagine his perspective is "Warforged get no bonus to DEX so they would suffer more than the other races here". If you aren't into metagaming then I wouldn't worry too much about those statements.

Besides, a player is more important than the build anyhow, so long as they can utilize a build well.

shadow543256
06-26-2008, 09:57 PM
Warforged can not remove their plating, so if they take mithril body or adamantine body they will have an inherent armor check penalty. If they are in composite plating then they have no armor check penalty.



Angelus_Dead is one of the forum metagamers. I'd imagine his perspective is "Warforged get no bonus to DEX so they would suffer more than the other races here". If you aren't into metagaming then I wouldn't worry too much about those statements.

Besides, a player is more important than the build anyhow, so long as they can utilize a build well.

oh

Aesop
06-26-2008, 09:57 PM
WF can be successful as any class. Their weakest links though are those classes requiring a high Wis or Cha... as they recieve penalties to those.

Try to think about what it is you want and then match up classes and abilities to that desire.

Don't be afraid of Multi Classing ... but be aware of what you are doing and plan ahead.

WF Wizards are quite popular because they have no penalty to Intelligence and Wizards cast Repair spells... Self Healing is a major plus.

Barbs are popular because WF have a Power Attack Enhancment that stacks with the Barb Power Attack.

WF work well as Tactical Fighters because they have a Tactics Enhancment that covers Stunning Blow, Trip and Sunder

WF Rogues are nothing to sneeze at either

Think outside the box a little and match things up where you want them.

Personally I like 3pal/1sorc/12fighter(with 4 more Pal in the level 20 future)... but hey that's me

Aesop

shadow543256
06-26-2008, 09:58 PM
Warforged can not remove their plating, so if they take mithril body or adamantine body they will have an inherent armor check penalty. If they are in composite plating then they have no armor check penalty.



Angelus_Dead is one of the forum metagamers. I'd imagine his perspective is "Warforged get no bonus to DEX so they would suffer more than the other races here". If you aren't into metagaming then I wouldn't worry too much about those statements.

Besides, a player is more important than the build anyhow, so long as they can utilize a build well.

so actually a wf can be a good dex ranger?

Angelus_dead
06-26-2008, 09:58 PM
Angelus_Dead is one of the forum metagamers. I'd imagine his perspective is "Warforged get no bonus to DEX so they would suffer more than the other races here". If you aren't into metagaming then I wouldn't worry too much about those statements.
That is hilariously untrue, and appears to be founded in a spectacular misunderstanding of what "meta" means.

The fact that elves and halflings do better in dexterity-focused professions is not at all something characters in the world of Eberron are unaware of.

shadow543256
06-26-2008, 09:59 PM
WF can be successful as any class. Their weakest links though are those classes requiring a high Wis or Cha... as they recieve penalties to those.

Try to think about what it is you want and then match up classes and abilities to that desire.

Don't be afraid of Multi Classing ... but be aware of what you are doing and plan ahead.

WF Wizards are quite popular because they have no penalty to Intelligence and Wizards cast Repair spells... Self Healing is a major plus.

Barbs are popular because WF have a Power Attack Enhancment that stacks with the Barb Power Attack.

WF work well as Tactical Fighters because they have a Tactics Enhancment that covers Stunning Blow, Trip and Sunder

WF Rogues are nothing to sneeze at either

Think outside the box a little and match things up where you want them.

Personally I like 3pal/1sorc/12fighter(with 4 more Pal in the level 20 future)... but hey that's me

Aesop

so wf make bad clerics and sorcerers right?

Angelus_dead
06-26-2008, 10:00 PM
so actually a wf can be a good dex ranger?
As long as you enjoy less accuracy, less damage, less AC, less healing, and fewer spellpoints, they're fine.

Angelus_dead
06-26-2008, 10:02 PM
so wf make bad clerics and sorcerers right?
Warforged have a penalty to wisdom and charisma, which tends to make them worse as clerics and sorcerers.
They also have a penalty to divine healing, which makes them worse as divine spellcasters (primarily clerics).
They have a "bonus" to arcane repairing, which makes them better as wizards and sorcerers.

So the charisma penalty roughly cancels out the self-repair benefit, leaving them decent sorcerers overall. They're even better as wizards, except insofar as the wizard class is overall weaker than the sorcerer class.

shadow543256
06-26-2008, 10:02 PM
The fact that elves and halflings do better in dexterity-focused professions is not at all something characters in the world of Eberron are unaware of.

i know of the elf and halfling thing but most elves are wizards and wizards dont care anything sorta for dex cause main one is int and most halflings are rouges and rouges are mainly dex and int cause of some of the skills

shadow543256
06-26-2008, 10:03 PM
As long as you enjoy less accuracy, less damage, less AC, less healing, and fewer spellpoints, they're fine.

and the less ac part isnt true cause of mith body and addy body feats when u first make

Aesop
06-26-2008, 10:04 PM
so wf make bad clerics and sorcerers right?

Again it depends on what you are building for. If you want to be a Turn undead and CC heavy cleric... then yes WF would be less adept at it then say a Human or a Drow. If you are more interested in buffing up and plowing into melee... well they can do that pretty well. Its all about how you want to play it.


Aesop

shadow543256
06-26-2008, 10:06 PM
Again it depends on what you are building for. If you want to be a Turn undead and CC heavy cleric... then yes WF would be less adept at it then say a Human or a Drow. If you are more interested in buffing up and plowing into melee... well they can do that pretty well. Its all about how you want to play it.


Aesop

so a wf can either be a good cleric or a bad cleric depending on how u have it?

Aesop
06-26-2008, 10:07 PM
and the less ac part isnt true cause of mith body and addy body feats when u first make

... sorta... but remember we have tweaky gear like the Delving Suit from the VoN series... that's point for point better than Mithril body and doesn't cost a feat... WF body Feats have a severe cost in many Feat starved builds.


Aesop

shadow543256
06-26-2008, 10:09 PM
... sorta... but remember we have tweaky gear like the Delving Suit from the VoN series... that's point for point better than Mithril body and doesn't cost a feat... WF body Feats have a severe cost in many Feat starved builds.


Aesop

oh and the other races can get mith or addy armour and not lose a feat and what part for delving suit

Aesop
06-26-2008, 10:11 PM
so a wf can either be a good cleric or a bad cleric depending on how u have it?

If you want the ultimate Caster Cleric you do not want a Warforged as the race


Honestly I'd say start off with either Fighter or Barbarian (cause they are an easy point and click type class) first learn about the strengths and weaknesses of a Warforged then experiment out til you find the balance that fits your playing style and character desire.

Aesop

Aesop
06-26-2008, 10:12 PM
oh and the other races can get mith or addy armour and not lose a feat and what part for delving suit

Yep pretty much.

Aesop

shadow543256
06-26-2008, 10:12 PM
Honestly I'd say start off with either Fighter or Barbarian (cause they are an easy point and click type class) first learn about the strengths and weaknesses of a Warforged then experiment out til you find the balance that fits your playing style and character desire.

Aesop

actuallyl i think weakness for wf is they cant wear armor but u can get away with addy body on barb without heavy armor feat which is good

shadow543256
06-26-2008, 10:13 PM
actuallyl i think weakness for wf is they cant wear armor but u can get away with addy body on barb without heavy armor feat which is good

i think

Angelus_dead
06-26-2008, 10:14 PM
and the less ac part isnt true cause of mith body and addy body feats when u first make
We were talking about dex rangers. Dex rangers do not wear armor, nor do they wear armor equivalents like mithral and adamantine body plating. Taking either of those choices would reduce their AC.

What it comes down to is that the warforged dex ranger has armor 2 composite plating + 5 docent = 7, while the elf/halfling is in a robe of AC 6. In terms of armor, the warforged is ahead by 1. But then his dex bonus is -2 below the others, giving him -1 net AC. The halfling has an additional +1 AC from smallness.

That +2 dex differential gives the other races a +2 on their attack rolls, and the elf gets another +2 attack/damage rolls because of racial rapier enhancements. The halfling gets +4 attack/damage when sneak attacking, which is often. Compared to that the warforged has nothing to increase his damage except increased Power Attack, which isn't great because his attack bonus is already lower than the others.

shadow543256
06-26-2008, 10:15 PM
We were talking about dex rangers. Dex rangers do not wear armor, nor do they wear armor equivalents like mithral and adamantine body plating. Taking either of those choices would reduce their AC.

What it comes down to is that the warforged dex ranger has armor 2 composite plating + 5 docent = 7, while the elf/halfling is in a robe of AC 6. In terms of armor, the warforged is ahead by 1. But then his dex bonus is -2 below the others, giving him -1 net AC. The halfling has an additional +1 AC from smallness.

That +2 dex differential gives the other races a +2 on their attack rolls, and the elf gets another +2 attack/damage rolls because of racial rapier enhancements. The halfling gets +4 attack/damage when sneak attacking, which is often. Compared to that the warforged has nothing to increase his damage except increased Power Attack, which isn't great because his attack bonus is already lower than the others.

yeah but it all depends on how u have them built so it may be better (and i repeat better) then what u say

shadow543256
06-26-2008, 10:18 PM
We were talking about dex rangers. Dex rangers do not wear armor, nor do they wear armor equivalents like mithral and adamantine body plating. Taking either of those choices would reduce their AC.

What it comes down to is that the warforged dex ranger has armor 2 composite plating + 5 docent = 7, while the elf/halfling is in a robe of AC 6. In terms of armor, the warforged is ahead by 1. But then his dex bonus is -2 below the others, giving him -1 net AC. The halfling has an additional +1 AC from smallness.

That +2 dex differential gives the other races a +2 on their attack rolls, and the elf gets another +2 attack/damage rolls because of racial rapier enhancements. The halfling gets +4 attack/damage when sneak attacking, which is often. Compared to that the warforged has nothing to increase his damage except increased Power Attack, which isn't great because his attack bonus is already lower than the others.

plus elves only make good ranegrs cause their con takes a -2 so they dont make greta front line combatants onlike wf who could work well any sorta

Aesop
06-26-2008, 10:20 PM
yeah but it all depends on how u have them built so it may be better (and i repeat better) then what u say

Well remember there are optimize builds... those bore me personally but hey some people believe that the only way they can have fun is by having the most uber of all builds.

Really the people you want to talk to are people who play Warforged frequently like Heavymetal and Ghoste... and Ransack I think too.


Hopefully they'll chime in at some point


Aesop

shadow543256
06-26-2008, 10:21 PM
Well remember there are optimize builds... those bore me personally but hey some people believe that the only way they can have fun is by having the most uber of all builds.

Really the people you want to talk to are people who play Warforged frequently like Heavymetal and Ghoste... and Ransack I think too.


Hopefully they'll chime in at some point


Aesop

i sorta dont care how wf is built because they are actually best as a brick wall (as in up front guarding every single one who cant take massive hits) to guard so any build would probably actualy work with wf

Aesop
06-26-2008, 10:22 PM
plus elves only make good ranegrs cause their con takes a -2 so they dont make greta front line combatants onlike wf who could work well any sorta

hey hey now no picking on my girls... My Long Sword Specced Elven Pal/Fighter is a monster and has smoked many a dual wielding Barb dwarves with Waraxes in terms of survivablity and kill count.

Remember the player is a large part of any of these equations.


Aesop


and goos night I need sleep

shadow543256
06-26-2008, 10:23 PM
hey hey now no picking on my girls... My Long Sword Specced Elven Pal/Fighter is a monster and has smoked many a dual wielding Barb dwarves with Waraxes in terms of survivablity and kill count.

Remember the player is a large part of any of these equations.


Aesop

lol srry but im used to that cause only elf i got is a lvl 9 caster that is like snapping a thin twig (if a thin twig can summon and has light armor prof)

shadow543256
06-26-2008, 10:27 PM
lol srry but im used to that cause only elf i got is a lvl 9 caster that is like snapping a thin twig (if a thin twig can summon and has light armor prof)

strike that i got a elf ranger but are more like tank then ranger mainly cause most monsters are in their face waiting to be hacked

Tin_Dragon
06-30-2008, 11:08 AM
whats the best class for wf? cause i got a wf barb but may remake so wondering if i do remake what class works best


Artificer with a splash of fighter. :rolleyes:

Talon_Moonshadow
06-30-2008, 11:31 AM
Any really.

Wiz are nice for self healing. Sor are ok, but get a Cha penalty.

Brbs are popular. brb PA and WF PA do stack.

I think Ftr are good....but it's based and the fact that repair is a class skill for Ftrs......and no one really cares about that.

I'm not a fan of WF Pal, Clr, Sor, Brd......and maybe even Rgrs, because of the penalty to Wiz and Cha.......but I've seen all the above turn out real well.....and I wave a WF Rgr that I like.

I like my WF Rog as well.....but I like my Drow Rogue a lot better.

Personally, I think you get the most from a WF Wiz......but like I said....all good.

Aesop
06-30-2008, 03:27 PM
Artificer with a splash of fighter. :rolleyes:

ding that is the correct answer you win the internet


Aesop

Noctus
07-01-2008, 06:07 AM
WF are best as Wizards. Their WIS and CHA penaltys dont matter here, and their other drawback, the bad divine healing is in fact turned to a bonus, as they can self-heal with their own repair spells.
While their CON-Bonus makes them less squishy, which is always good for a fragile class.

They also make good Barbarians, as their racial enhancements are really fitting for barbarians. The drawback is that barbarians need much healing and their healing penalty so annoys many clerics (at least before they get the Heal-Spell).

Hadrian
07-01-2008, 06:28 AM
I enjoy my WF barbarian, and I would make him again the same way if I had to start over.

A bit of advice, though: Don't make the mistake of keeping a body feat for too long. Adamantine body will give you some useful AC at the lower levels, but somewhere around levels 8-10 you'll have to either abandon AC or have a build focused toward barbarian AC to keep it at a useful level. Dwarves are actually at a large advantage here with their racial enhancements.

For a typical barbarian who is worried about DPS, drop that body feat as soon as your notice that AC is not providing a benefit. Do your best to find a docent of defiance as soon as you can. The DR on this item will greatly improve your ability to survive, and this is something that only warforged can wear.

VonBek
07-01-2008, 09:09 AM
Artificer with a splash of fighter. :rolleyes:


Oh!, You TEASE!

I've spent time with WF Cleric, Battle Cleric, Paly, Fighter Paly, and Fighter. The Fighter played best, for me. The tactics options keeps him challenging to play. (oddball claim to fame: he saved our squishy cleric in STK - with a starter healer kit! :rolleyes:) The Paly and combo builds were a bit too strained on stats to feel satisfying.

I find I like my WF escapism to include a hefty measure of Hack & Bash. I've tried a Shadow Mage (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=127707) and found it quite workable. MrCow's Solo WF Sorc (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=1378910&postcount=9) should also give outstanding results.

llevenbaxx
07-01-2008, 01:07 PM
Dont throw pallys out immediately either. You dont need a max cha for it to be useful, currently sitting at only 24 and pretty much only fail saves on 1s. They have a very good synergy with the pally class both enhancement and immunity-wise.

Agree that WF sorc is a great combo also, though only currently level10 on mine so still have a bit to see.

Aesop
07-02-2008, 11:13 PM
As a note most of my Rings of Rage are on Argo... but I may have spares on other servers


toss me a character name and server I can mail things to and I'll see what I can do. Oddly I have 3-5 spare Rings of Rage on Argo

Aesop

MTG
07-02-2008, 11:21 PM
I like my paly wf, the lord of blades is very nice buff (you can still get arcane and your lay on hands healing).

Inspire
07-03-2008, 12:14 AM
But *Sniffles* I Luff My WF Cleric!

WeaselKing
07-03-2008, 03:37 PM
whats the best class for wf? cause i got a wf barb but may remake so wondering if i do remake what class works best

Any.


oh then what class wouldnt work best at all for wf (all ready know race just need to know incase thats what class i want)

None.


Bards, Clerics, and Paladins seem to be the most unpopular for Warforged.

True, maybe, but since when is this a popularity contest? And come to think of it I have seen few if any WF fighters around Argo, not pure anyway.


Also rogues, rangers, or anyone high dex.

And monks, or anyone high wis.

False, but the -2 to wis and dex does prevent you from haveing the highest possible nuimbers in these stats.


as long as they dont sneak they are cause i think wf have negitave in sneak or something been a while since ive looked

Not with composite body, mithril and addy bodies have armor check penalties like fleshie armor does.


A warforged is pretty horrible as a dex ranger.

Only if played poorly, the weakest build can be overcome by the best player.


so actually a wf can be a good dex ranger?

Yup but your max dex will be 2 less than a halfling or elf. Just like your wis will be 2 less than most others and your cha 4 less than a Drow. This doesz not mean you aren't viable, many people love their WF sorcs despite having a "gimped" cha.


so wf make bad clerics and sorcerers right?

No they are fine the biggest drawback is that the lower cha limits spell DCs so I would recommend spells with no DC. Even then you will still be effective maybe just not as effective as a drow with all else the same. You will more likely have morte hp than that drow though and certainly more inherent immunities.


As long as you enjoy less accuracy, less damage, less AC, less healing, and fewer spellpoints, they're fine.

Or more con, more hp, poison/FTS/etc immunites. I am confused about the whole WF aren't good dex characters thing they don't have a dex penalty so should be as goos as humans or dwarves at the whole dex based thing. If you want to get the highest dex in game I don't resommend a WF otherwise, why not?


so a wf can either be a good cleric or a bad cleric depending on how u have it?

And how you play it.


Artificer with a splash of fighter. :rolleyes:

Likely true, unfortunately artificers do not appear to be in the works, yet.


WF are best as Wizards. Their WIS and CHA penaltys dont matter here, and their other drawback, the bad divine healing is in fact turned to a bonus, as they can self-heal with their own repair spells.
While their CON-Bonus makes them less squishy, which is always good for a fragile class.

They also make good Barbarians, as their racial enhancements are really fitting for barbarians. The drawback is that barbarians need much healing and their healing penalty so annoys many clerics (at least before they get the Heal-Spell).

I like this assessment and it closely mirrors my own. My wiz has 302 hp and 28 con with quicken and reconstruct he is a powerhouse of death and destruction and survivability, the only thing stopping her usually id the gimp at the controls.


But *Sniffles* I Luff My WF Cleric!

Me too but I need to reroll him as a 32 pointer. My first alt, I rolled a great PnP character but I didn't know how to build a DDO character at the time.

cyadra
07-03-2008, 09:24 PM
so wf make bad clerics and sorcerers right?

No WF make awesome Sorcs. I would say after playing all the different races, their ability to heal themselves almost instantly makes the WF the best Sorc class. If it were not for the -2 ch pent. then everyone would have one. What does that -2 pent. mean at the end, maybe 2 or 3 spells you cant cast between shrines over another race (4 or 5 for Drow)

The second thing that make WF awesome Sorcs. is your Con. Second most important thing to a caster is a high con. I always max that out on creation because I need all the hps. I can get, and that is where the Drow takes the hit. Many a quest I have survived that my Drow Sorc party member hasn't because of my high hit points and ability to heal myself over and over again.

Third, you save a TON of money as a WF Sorc. since you dont have to buy pots and wands to heal yourself.

Once you cast your first self heal as a Sorc, you will never go back.

Naso24
07-21-2008, 03:53 PM
Warforged have a penalty to wisdom and charisma, which tends to make them worse as clerics and sorcerers.
They also have a penalty to divine healing, which makes them worse as divine spellcasters (primarily clerics).
They have a "bonus" to arcane repairing, which makes them better as wizards and sorcerers.

So the charisma penalty roughly cancels out the self-repair benefit, leaving them decent sorcerers overall. They're even better as wizards, except insofar as the wizard class is overall weaker than the sorcerer class.

If you want to make a sorc, I would highly recommend WF. The extra mana that sorcs get will provide a pool for self healing that will still leave you more mana than a WF wizard has base for casting.

The only real drawback I see is -1 dc to spells vs non-drow wizards, or -2 dc to spells vs. drow. To combat the will saves, take force of personality. At high end, you could get a +12 to saves from the CHA stat alone (34 CHR), making it quite difficult to fail (22 prior to buffs, equipment, or enhancements).

WF make great high AC, saves, and HP casters.

A WF 14 Wizard - 2 Monk (with the intelligence reflex save feat) could be a ton of fun, and quite survivable. End game at L20 18/2.

Hvymetal
07-22-2008, 07:35 AM
Any.....

GORAK
07-31-2008, 11:10 PM
Warforged pure cleric........
Talk about the ultimate battle cleric with self healing, nuke spells and built in immunities. If the caster works with you, you can save SP by healing all the fleshies and having the caster repair you. And guess what, you're the healer so who's gonna argue with you saying they don't want to waster resources healing the toaster! :-)

nbhs275
07-31-2008, 11:46 PM
As long as you enjoy less accuracy, less damage, less AC, less healing, and fewer spellpoints, they're fine.

ok, lets get some things down, those 38 dex finesse rangers out there with 10 str, are not doing real damage, so im not sure how less dex is going to be " less damage"

second, str rangers are as accurate in melee as finesse, unless your gunna cry over +1, 36 str > 36 dex

Third, AC wise, WF rangers have about the same ac potential because of high armor class docents(abbot with alchemical = +7)

SP? who cares, unless your trying to be the raid healer, im not gunna cry if my ranger doesnt have over 200sp.

less healing? your using your sp to heal yourself? really you got space for a devotion item, devotion enhancments and a sp item? or are you bragging about your 20 point cure mods? pots are still going to be equally effective.

And warforge also get PA enhancments, letting them do much higher amounts of damage considering how high attack bonuses become at endgame.

angelus, dont think you got every fact down pact. Sure, an elf or halfling makes a better dex ranger, but finesse rangers are a waste of a raid spot bud.

Uska
08-01-2008, 12:20 AM
Bards, Clerics, and Paladins seem to be the most unpopular for Warforged.



Bah wf are good at them all but are better if they are 32pt builds due to the stat penalites they have for those classes.

Uska
08-01-2008, 12:24 AM
so wf make bad clerics and sorcerers right?


Not bad just have to work at it harder and wont be quite as good due to stat penalties but I love my WF sorcerer fast casting immune to seveal things and self healing, he is the last one standing many times.

Uska
08-01-2008, 12:26 AM
and the less ac part isnt true cause of mith body and addy body feats when u first make

Dont waste your feat on mith or addy body wont get your ac up enough other penalites are enough as well for you not to take them.

nbhs275
08-01-2008, 12:30 AM
oh, and just some fun things that i showed a new player to the game about being a good wf build with a good player(and some looting ability :)

I soloed rainbow, with a lvl 12 newbie in my guild tagging along(monk, just snuck and watched), who a. wanted to get a look at vale stuff, and b. see if WF rangers work...I wanted his shav stone :)

First thing was my blanket immunities:

Complete immunity to

disease
poison
crit
sneak attack
negative levels
paralysis
holds
blindness(DQ goggles)

Then, i have evasion, high TWF ac(low 50s unbuffed), high DPS(32-34 str, with WF PA), good hp (400+ raged) and good saves.

Basically i went through the entire place on about 20 pots, just because the build covers you in so many areas, and with the right equipment very few mobs are a challenge...infact killed the boss without taking a single hit just through evasion.

So angelus, dont make assumptions .

Uska
08-01-2008, 12:58 AM
plus elves only make good ranegrs cause their con takes a -2 so they dont make greta front line combatants onlike wf who could work well any sorta

Wrong elves can be just fine as any class not just rangers and make good twf they will just have less hp.

Uska
08-01-2008, 12:59 AM
i sorta dont care how wf is built because they are actually best as a brick wall (as in up front guarding every single one who cant take massive hits) to guard so any build would probably actualy work with wf

Actually a dwarf would be a better brick wall then a wf

shadow543256
08-01-2008, 12:47 PM
Actually a dwarf would be a better brick wall then a wf

thatd be a short brickwall

Return_To_Forever
08-01-2008, 12:58 PM
right now, sorc is like insanely popular, sorc being just an awesome class anyways, but being able to reconstruct at the snap of a finger seems really good. err, is really good, many of the best players I know have wf sorcs.

edit: also I'm glad to see WF getting love, back in the day it used to be WF couldn't get a group, now alot of people are being very creative with them and coming up with stuff that is really strong. As I'm only just coming back froma yr break, its nice to see this.

iruka41
08-01-2008, 01:16 PM
i know of the elf and halfling thing but most elves are wizards and wizards dont care anything sorta for dex cause main one is int and most halflings are rouges and rouges are mainly dex and int cause of some of the skills

Most elves are not Wizards. I bet there's more Elven Rangers than Elven Wizards. Also there's a lot of DEX-based Elven fighter/rogue/bard, or even STR-based high DEX Elven barb/fighter/pally/etc/etc. Don't even have to count sooo many Elven multiclassed builds out there other than wizards.

You're right though, High DEX doesn't mean anything to wizards now that we have the feat: Insightful Relfexes,
but high DEX still means something to sorcerers, for high Reflex save (=guarantied half damage from most spells).

Unless it's a raid quests,
High DEX WF Sorcerer = the Most Deadly, yet the Most Indesructable in the game. No one can match its "DPS + Survivability"
(Oh well, I'm talking about 14 starting DEX here, not 18 lol)

iruka41
08-01-2008, 01:36 PM
ok, lets get some things down, those 38 dex finesse rangers out there with 10 str, are not doing real damage, so im not sure how less dex is going to be " less damage"

Sure, an elf or halfling makes a better dex ranger, but finesse rangers are a waste of a raid spot bud.

Good Dex-Rangers start at least with 12 STR, get Power Attack, and leave it on always, if DPS is needed.
(But really, who needs STR-based dps when there's finessable W/P,V,D,S,B weapons?)

Raid spot? I'm sure those Dex-Rangers are doing about the same on their racial-enemies as most non-ranger melees.
And they're better at killing non-boss mobs in raids. How come they be a waste of spot?

Have capped both DEX, STR rangers, and this is my conclusion.
Of course my bio says my main is a STR-based Dwarven Ranger and I prefer STR-builds, but I don't think DEX-Rangers suck at all.
Actually after the Monk and the Icy outfit, I wish I have another Dex-Ranger.

iruka41
08-01-2008, 01:46 PM
Actually a dwarf would be a better brick wall then a wf

It's really situational.
Raid Curses and Docent of Defiance changed entire game expirience.

iruka41
08-01-2008, 01:53 PM
right now, sorc is like insanely popular, sorc being just an awesome class anyways, but being able to reconstruct at the snap of a finger seems really good. err, is really good, many of the best players I know have wf sorcs.

edit: also I'm glad to see WF getting love, back in the day it used to be WF couldn't get a group, now alot of people are being very creative with them and coming up with stuff that is really strong. As I'm only just coming back froma yr break, its nice to see this.

Even I become seriously aggresive when I'm playing my WF 15Sorc/1Barb.
It's just too powerful. Makes me feel like every other races are squishey, every other classes are low-DPSed ;)
(But still I prefer to play my Ranger :P)

DragonKiller
08-01-2008, 02:46 PM
Personally I think WF's are great at any Melee class, and as Arcane casters. They can also be very effective as rogues.

I lean towards using them as Barb's (because of the immunities, and the fact they don't become exhausted after raging), and Wizards. Some of my guildies have very successfully used them as Sorc's and Pally's. One of my favorite characters to play right now is a 12/3/1 Barb/Rogue/Wiz WF. Great DPS, HP, Trap/lock smithing and able to self heal and buff reasonably well (if a bit expensive in wand usages).

Uska
08-02-2008, 12:32 PM
thatd be a short brickwall

but much much thicker than a wf one

Uska
08-02-2008, 12:33 PM
Good Dex-Rangers start at least with 12 STR, get Power Attack, and leave it on always, if DPS is needed.
(But really, who needs STR-based dps when there's finessable W/P,V,D,S,B weapons?)

Raid spot? I'm sure those Dex-Rangers are doing about the same on their racial-enemies as most non-ranger melees.
And they're better at killing non-boss mobs in raids. How come they be a waste of spot?

Have capped both DEX, STR rangers, and this is my conclusion.
Of course my bio says my main is a STR-based Dwarven Ranger and I prefer STR-builds, but I don't think DEX-Rangers suck at all.
Actually after the Monk and the Icy outfit, I wish I have another Dex-Ranger.

takes 13 str to get power attack doesnt it?

shadow543256
08-02-2008, 04:01 PM
but much much thicker than a wf one

to me, dwarves are short angry stumps perfect to throw at people

nbhs275
08-02-2008, 07:39 PM
Good Dex-Rangers start at least with 12 STR, get Power Attack, and leave it on always, if DPS is needed.
(But really, who needs STR-based dps when there's finessable W/P,V,D,S,B weapons?)

Raid spot? I'm sure those Dex-Rangers are doing about the same on their racial-enemies as most non-ranger melees.
And they're better at killing non-boss mobs in raids. How come they be a waste of spot?

Have capped both DEX, STR rangers, and this is my conclusion.
Of course my bio says my main is a STR-based Dwarven Ranger and I prefer STR-builds, but I don't think DEX-Rangers suck at all.
Actually after the Monk and the Icy outfit, I wish I have another Dex-Ranger.

ok, lets consider dps.

DPS = damage per second, which basically what is needed for any red/purple, and some orange and norms.

Wounding of puncturing doesnt count as dps, as all red/purples are immune.
Vorps, don't count as dps, as all red/purples and some normals are immune.
Disruptors, neither, yet again immune.
Smiting? immunities
Banishers? all red/purples are immune, as are most elementals and outsiders in endgame.

Even in a place where those weapons are useful, the str ranger is only MAYBE 1-2 attack behind. When your already hitting on a 2, it doesnt matter. The weapons are the same strength between the two, unless you consider the fact that the str ranger will kill faster because he also has more dps along with the proc chance.

Next, lets look at my "str" ranger WF, vs your "dex" ranger .

My str is 30 standing, and yours is what? 18-20 maybe? I benefit from madstone rage as a constant(because 1. i got 7 pairs from soloing reaver and 2. you get hit when you can actually do damage and gain aggro) so average of 32 str vs a 34ish dex. and your wasting a feat on finesse, so lets say i spent that same feat on weapon focus. Wow, we are both at the same to-hit, but i also do 6 more str damage in my main hand, and have the WF PA bonuses, for 1-3 more damage in each hand.

And in raids, the main worry are your red and purple bosses. Those are the fights that are make or break.

Can you finesse rangers do 120+ crits on harry with a rapier? how about 200+ in your offhand?

Plain and simple, DPS builds are > finesse builds. The advantages of a finesse dex build just arent outweighing their drawbacks.

Hvymetal
08-03-2008, 06:13 AM
Warforged pure cleric........
Talk about the ultimate battle cleric with self healing, nuke spells and built in immunities. If the caster works with you, you can save SP by healing all the fleshies and having the caster repair you. And guess what, you're the healer so who's gonna argue with you saying they don't want to waster resources healing the toaster! :-)

QFT I love my WF Cleric, but I took 1 level of Paladin.

sirgog
08-03-2008, 08:42 PM
My suggestions:

Avoid builds that are AC-focussed, as non-WFs can generally do better here (either as a Dwarf in mithril fullplate or mith BP, or as a halfling with uber Dex and robes).

WF shine most as melee/caster hybrids (these require an experienced player, search the board for the Arcane Psycho build to get an idea of what these can look like, although they can also be high Str Wiz15/Ftr1), barbarians and also make excellent pure casters.

Of course, this assumes you want to minmax your character so you can handle endgame raids on hard and elite - if that's not your goal, feel free to make anything.