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Kaldais
06-24-2008, 09:47 AM
Made some modifications as suggested.

I wonder why the devs went with those five animals, as I don’t have an oriental adventures book to read through. Since they did say they got inspiration from Shaolin monks, wouldn’t the traditional five animals from Shaolin kunfu make more sense? Monkey, Crane, Mantis, Tiger, and Snake. Here’s my idea of the animal path enhancements, to me it boosts monk’s power, and would make more sense to use monk’s class skills. Over powered?

Way of the Clever Monkey
Bonus to bluff and jump skill.
Bonus to reflex saves.
Tier 1: +1 to hit and damage when sneak attacking while centered
Tier 2: +1 dodge AC while centered
Tier 3: +4 dodge AC while tumbling and centered
Tier 4: +2 to hit and damage when sneak attacking while centered
*You have studied exclusively in the way a monkey acts with its surroundings, in which you have gained great insight on how to master your individual style. You are clever, and are always on the move, never allowing your enemy to catch your precise movement.

Way of the Elegant Crane
Bonus to will saves
Tier 1: 5% blur effect while centered.
Tier 2: 10% blur effect while centered.
Tier 3: 15% blur effect, immunity to blindness while centered.
Tier 4: 20% blur effect, immunity to blindness and slow effects while centered.
*After years of meditation and the studying of the graceful movements of a crane, you are able to incorporate its natural movements into your style. You can dance to the nature, shift to match the movements in the air around you, thus creating a blurring affect in combat.

Way of the Silent Mantis
Bonus to tumble skill
Tier 1: your unarmed attacks now count as slashing and bludgeoning.
Tier 2: you receive +1 dodge AC when centered
Tier 3: +1 to hit and +2 to damage when unarmed while centered
Tier 4: you receive +2 dodge AC when centered
*The way a mantis moves cannot be described, yet you have gained an understanding on this creature and why it moves the way it moves. You are able to slice a brick with your bare hands, through the precise control of speed and burst of strength, and the more you study the more you become innately alert to danger.

Way of the Ferocious Tiger
Bonus to intimidate skill
Bonus to fortitude saves
+1 melee damage when centered per tier.
*The study of the king of the beast is often difficult and deadly, but those who have prevailed gain the strength in which a tiger strikes and kills. You are tough and dangerous, you are able to channel your strength into every strike that made contact with an enemy.

Way of the Deadly Serpent
Bonus to concentration skill
Tier 1: +2 seeker bonus when centered
Tier 2: +1 critical range when centered
Tier 3: +4 seeker bonus when centered
Tier 4: +2 critical range when centered
All non-critical damage is halved.
*The serpent only strike when necessary, when it does strike, it intends to kill. You have been studying this art of precision and speed from absolute stillness, in which you hope to disable your enemy with one strike. Your style is just like that, precise and deadly.

Uproar
06-24-2008, 09:49 AM
Very nice. However, almost anything would be better then the current set.

Still /signed.

Teech
06-24-2008, 09:54 AM
Way of the Kung Fu Panda
1: Gain twice as much h/p while eating in a tavern
2: Gain h/p from eating at a normal rate while running in a safe area
3: Gain twice as much h/p while eating in a safe area
4: Gain h/p from eating at a normal rate while in quest

llevenbaxx
06-24-2008, 09:56 AM
Yeah, these are definitely more along the lines of what other classes recieve, power wise. Better to start low and beef up from there though, these look like good beef to me.

Dimicron
06-24-2008, 10:23 AM
These all look like they'd be fun to play.

/signed

Turial
06-24-2008, 10:41 AM
I like the incorporation of the centered bit on some of the more powerful tiers. It provides a nice bit of balance while allowing the monk access to better abilities.

/Signed

negative
06-24-2008, 11:01 AM
Monkey and Mantis are overpowered. Maybe Serpant, maybe not. I'd rather make changes to the base class than add a bunch of overpowered enhancements.

I think you'll have a hard sell to get enhancements grant feats. There isn't really a precedent for it, and in my opinion, letting enhancements grant you additional feats is fairly unbalanced and overpowered.

Ikuryo
06-24-2008, 12:08 PM
I actually like the way of the Monkey right now. The other paths went from moderately interesting to no way in hell would I ever take it. A stacking energy resist and bonuses to trap saves instead of 20 max hps? Yes please make my monk even harder to kill with traps and spells.

Turial
06-24-2008, 01:01 PM
Monkey and Mantis are overpowered. Maybe Serpant, maybe not. I'd rather make changes to the base class than add a bunch of overpowered enhancements.

I think you'll have a hard sell to get enhancements grant feats. There isn't really a precedent for it, and in my opinion, letting enhancements grant you additional feats is fairly unbalanced and overpowered.

Actually most of the barbarian and bard enhancements are redone feats. Extra rage, longer rage, extra songs, etc are all very much like feats in pnp.

Its true that the SA feat line is to powerful to give in enhancement form but the weapon focus blunt could be changed to +1 attack with monk weapons and have the same general effect (kinda like dwarves and axes). The centering requirement does prevent some class/race synergies, ie races with weapon bonuses wouldnt be able to stack them with tiger because none of them center you.

Monkey needs to be reworked for sure. Mantis needs some work too...perhaps only if unarmed and centered rather then just centered.

negative
06-24-2008, 03:00 PM
but the weapon focus blunt could be changed to +1 attack with monk weapons and have the same general effect (kinda like dwarves and axes). The centering requirement does prevent some class/race synergies.

I could get behind that. I'd also like to see this limited to being centered only. That would make it a real enhancement, and not just a feat.

negative
06-24-2008, 03:04 PM
I actually like the way of the Monkey right now. The other paths went from moderately interesting to no way in hell would I ever take it. A stacking energy resist and bonuses to trap saves instead of 20 max hps? Yes please make my monk even harder to kill with traps and spells.

At low levels, I like turtle. The extra HP helps, and so does that extra concentration. At high levels, I agree, I'll probably respec to Monkey (I forget if it has a penalty or not). My halfling sneak attack monk might also considered the Hound path if it wasn't for the fortitude? save penalty.

Kaldais
06-24-2008, 04:13 PM
alright made some modifications.

negative
06-24-2008, 04:33 PM
alright made some modifications.
Hmm. Now Monkey and Mantis are fairly similar and could use some diversity. I'm also not sure that they need to boost skills and saves in addition to everything else they do, as the extra AC and damage is fairly strong on it's own, keeping in my my earlier statement about giving the class a general boost (rather than through enhancements) if that is what it needs.

I like Tiger.

Serpent is interesting, but I think it would take a lot of testing to really nail down how much your non-crit damage should be penalized. This might also be appealing if it was a stance you could turn on and off.

As for Crane, the % Blur is fairly useless, and really just a neat bonus when you are already getting enhanced will saves and immunity to blindness and slow effects. Maybe remove the blur effect all together, and add something else if needed, or maybe grant 2%,3%,4%,5% Blur that stacks with other sources of concealment (I'm not sure what type of bonus that would be)? 5% at the top tier is about equal to granting +1 AC more or less, more inline with the other lines, but with its own unique flavor.

Ikuryo
06-26-2008, 05:36 AM
Btw Monkey path blows away similar enhancements in the Ranger line. The ranger enhancements have a series called Lore which is a stacking resist bonus. The ranger version is 3 different lines and only go up to a +6 resist at 3rd rank. In order for my ranger to get a similar bonus to resists that my monk will get for 10ap she would have to spend 18 ap and a feat (for haggle) and would still be missing 2 points to resist on 3 of the elements and would not get any lightning resist as well, would also be missing 1 point of haggle. Assuming there was a lightning lore chain for rangers and rank 4 in the Lore set was available it would cost a total of 40AP and the Haggle focus feat to get almost the same effect as the Monkey path, and you would be missing the +4 to trap saves. Monkey has no downside btw.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I want the monks weakened at all as I am enjoying mine, I'm just saying that the Lore series for Rangers has always seemed too weak to me and could use some changing.