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View Full Version : Replace Boss Immunities with Innate Resistance



Zaodon
06-23-2008, 09:34 AM
1. Keep bosses immune to instant death spells - we're fine with that. Phantasmal Killer, Finger of Death, Destruction, Slay Living. Flesh to Stone, etc.

2. Remove Boss immunities to all other effects. Replace them with innate resistance to those same effects.
Examples:
- You can trip bosses, but their save is high, and they stand up almost immediately.
- You can Stunning Blow bosses, but their save is high, and they are stunned only for a few seconds.
- You can debuff bosses, but their save is high, and they last only a few seconds.
etc.

This opens up a lot of new strategies for beating encounters without allowing players to trivialize the main boss fight. Spells/effects like Slow, Waves of Exhaustion, Blindness, etc. can be used to help reduce Boss DPS for a few seconds per use and allows caster types to be more diverse in their spell selection/tactics without having to "resort" to buff bots/haste bots/Max-Empowered-Disintegrate bots on the main bosses.

Razvan
06-23-2008, 10:01 AM
Or it opens up the gate to : "Hi, can I join your group?"; "Uhm, do you have Stunning Blow and Improved trip with DC over 35?"; "Uhm, no, they are only DC 25"..."Oh, sorry then, we don't need you"

MysticTheurge
06-23-2008, 10:58 AM
Or it opens up the gate to : "Hi, can I join your group?"; "Uhm, do you have Stunning Blow and Improved trip with DC over 35?"; "Uhm, no, they are only DC 25"..."Oh, sorry then, we don't need you"

It also opens up the gate to: "Spam X, Y and Z repeatedly until something sticks. Lather, rinse repeat." and "Don't waste your spell points on that, we need you to save them for the boss."

Talcyndl
06-23-2008, 11:28 AM
Or it opens up the gate to : "Hi, can I join your group?"; "Uhm, do you have Stunning Blow and Improved trip with DC over 35?"; "Uhm, no, they are only DC 25"..."Oh, sorry then, we don't need you"

As opposed to...

"Do you have a Transmuting of Greater Lawful Outsider Bane Weapon?" "No. Just a Holy Silver." "Sorry, we're looking for more DPS."

;)

Strumpoo
06-23-2008, 11:31 AM
Uhhhh, you can debuff the bosses already. ;)

Please DO NOT change this to only last a few seconds...:eek:


Would like to be able to use my combat feats like trip and stun on them though.

Cholera
06-23-2008, 12:12 PM
Personally, I find it a bit confusing as to why they arbitrarily added immunities in the first place. The argument that it is anticlimactic just doesn’t hold water, imho. The fact is that it is also pretty damn anticlimactic to find that a given class or spec type is next to useless in their specific capacity. While such a change may force the design team to be a bit more creative, this game already has enough “invisible walls”. As a short term solution it understandable and even expected that “invisible walls” be used but any team concerned with quality would be aiming for their eventual removal.

Furthermore, the concern about “opening the door” to some sort of class / spec discrimination is unwarranted. As another poster pointed out, the game is already rife with this sort of thing so it’s not an objection to spend much time on. This is particularly the case when one considers the fact that once a set of tactics find broad acceptance for a given quest, prospective party members will always be filtered for their ability to provide the necessary tools.

The fact is that removing these immunities in exchange for high saves (or something similar) would open up those missions to a much wider variety of tactics. This is because it would permit other, presently less orthodox methods to be used. A good example of this might be ‘fascinate’. It now has a DC but all named creatures, even orange, remain immune. It is not unreasonable to expect that classes other than those than are focused on DPS (caster or melee) also be an essential part of potential mission tactics.

toughguyjoe
06-23-2008, 12:19 PM
If names didn't have the immunities that they were given by the Dvelopers, the game would straight up be TOO EASY. If you could use any tactic on any mob the game would be too easy at high levels. OR the Developers could make you fight three Rort Rotseers at the end of trial by fire, and give them so many Hp that it still takes your tanks a damn good long time to hack through them even when you used hold monster on them.

I think the way that it works now is passable, and the idea that trip, stunning blow and other combat feats don't work very well is that in a game like this one, which imho is not the way every other MMO works, there is supposed to be give and take. some monsters are tough, but do nothing but get in your face. Some monsters have great abilities but few HP. Ogres, and Mindflayers, respectively came to mind. However, if you could Vorpal a red name, the entire end game content would be nothing but a Vorpal fest.

I like having to have a well rounded party to finish quests. It make sit so that characters who are built to fill a PARTY ROLE, not some role that they cooked up for themselves, are useful.

Glenalth
06-23-2008, 12:33 PM
I enjoyed that I could occasionally trip Arach's Knight in VoN 5. When it worked, it was usually the highlight of the run.

It would be nice if there was some sort of reduced effect as mentioned before. Even if it was just the enemy stumbling a step and ceasing to attack for a couple seconds instead of falling completely to the ground.

Cholera
06-23-2008, 12:33 PM
If names didn't have the immunities that they were given by the Dvelopers, the game would straight up be TOO EASY.

There is a problem with that claim. Now, while it is true that it is possible, even likely, it would be much easier, it is also possible that it would be more difficult. Ultimately, given that it depends entirely on how it is done, you cannot know either way. So, what you are really taking exception to here are your own suspicions as to how such a thing might be done, not the idea itself.

Zaodon
06-23-2008, 01:21 PM
Uhhhh, you can debuff the bosses already.

Not really, no. There are 2-3 debuffs that sometimes work on some bosses.

That is not the same thing as "all debuffs in the game work on all bosses, they are just highly resistant to them."