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View Full Version : Where are teh +4 Tomes?



Tin_Dragon
06-17-2008, 06:50 PM
ugh, level 18 raids, level 19-20 loot, no +4 tomes??

The loot tables should have +4 and +5 tomes by level 18? Why hold back? The mobs are so overpowered as it is, and we could use the extra +1/+2 to saves on casters, and the to hit and damage on melees, not to mention saves.


I would like to compare (quickly and simply) a tome vs an enhancement chain.

By level 7 a dwarf has Axe attack 2, which brings the damage up equivelant of a +4 to str. Yet at level 16 toons, with loot tables nearing 20, we cant get a +4 tome? Something doesnt figure right here,

Deriaz
06-17-2008, 06:51 PM
*Shrugs.* I dunno. My guess is that Turbine is trying, slowly, to pull back on the Monty Haul aspect. I mean, I, for one, wouldn't mind if +3 was where it stopped. But that's just me, and just a guess at why they aren't there.

-D

fefnir3284
06-18-2008, 12:39 AM
wont be here til level 18. thats my guess, and +5s wont be here til level 22. ;)

Uska
06-18-2008, 12:48 AM
I wish we didnt have the loot level we have now and that masterwork items would have meant something. But thats just me. Say no to +4 tomes.

Pellegro
06-18-2008, 12:50 AM
The mobs are so overpowered as it is ...

hahahaha thx for a good laugh

Drider
06-18-2008, 01:33 AM
There are no reason for +4 and +5 tomes.. as we can already boost our main stat through enhancements as is.

JD2134
06-18-2008, 02:51 AM
i Have more of a problem of 5 runs of the new raid and no loot items dropping, ran three runs of the hound and two of the other raid. Best loot pulled by someone was that they got both a vorpal and a para weapon. So that 12 players for 4 runs and 11 on the fifth so 59 chances at pulling a raid item with the assumed one in 6 chance and nothing. SO either the devs decreased the spawn rate for these raids, or something else, mind you one of the hound raid was done on hard.

I suggest that a further improvement to the raid loot is 1/6 chance and a minium of 1 raid item per every 5 people in a quest, so a group or ten or more would have at least two people get a raid item, and everyone else has the normal one in six chance

ariel7
06-18-2008, 04:00 AM
I've never even pulled a +2. Pulled 3 +1 tomes (all strength, all within a week)Pulled one epic weapon (+1 vorpal dwarven axe of pure good). I play 6+ hours a day, and have for what, about 4 months now?

krud
06-18-2008, 07:46 AM
I wouldn't mind if the tomes stopped at +3. As far as the monty hall loot, it would require an adjustment of the loot tables downward, and even then there would still be monty hall loot. The "problem" is that people play a lot. Statistically, if it's possible for an item to drop eventually it will if you run the quests enough times. Uber loot drops with more frequency because people are able to repeat quests with great frequency. Really, the only way to prevent it is to remove uber items from the loot tables so it never drops.

llevenbaxx
06-18-2008, 07:51 AM
+3 cap is fine by me also. Hate to think of the quest I will have to run over and over for a shot at these +4 tomes. I find I enjoy the game much more when I dont feel like Im sliding further and further behind the power curve.:)

Riddikulus
06-18-2008, 08:25 AM
Only problem with adding +4 tomes is that there could end up being +3 unbound tomes... that's all we need is 1st level monks with stats boosted by +3.

I never understood why tomes have no ML... if they just did a 4 ML per + of a tome there wouldn't be any issue with adding +4's and +5's completely unbound.

The_Phenx
06-18-2008, 10:52 AM
THE... not teh :D Thats why you can't find em your dyslexic typing is confusing you. (sorry couldn't resist)

Agreed with the ML aspect.

And I imagine you will start seeing them drop with mod 8... IF they are going to put them into the game, which I don't think is necessary... since it'll land all my toons on odd #rs. They should skip +4's and go straight to +5.

Kraldor
06-18-2008, 11:13 AM
Tomes hit +5 in PnP before Epic levels. Considering that DDO has gone above and beyond the call for loot, it would be a surprise if they didn't include them by level 20.

hydra_ex
06-18-2008, 11:19 AM
+1 Tomes drop as regular loot from lvl 10 quests
+2 Tomes drop as raid loot from lvl 10 raids
+2 Tomes drop as regular loot from lvl 17 quests
+3 Tomes drop as raid loot from lvl 14 raids
+3 Tomes drop regular loot from lvl 24 quests
+4 Tomes drop as raid loot from lvl 18 raids
+4 Tomes drop as regular loot from lvl 31 quests
+5 Tomes drop as raid lot from lvl 22 raids
+5 Tomes drop as regular loot from lvl 38 quests

If the pattern continues, we should see this. Now, how often do we see +3 tomes drop from the reaver? Now extrapulate to +4 tomes. They might be in the new raids, it wouldn't surprise me if the were not found yet.

Beherit_Baphomar
06-18-2008, 11:25 AM
All +4 tomes were eaten by the Superior Potency VII items....

Hobble_Gobble
06-18-2008, 11:30 AM
I wish we didnt have the loot level we have now and that masterwork items would have meant something. But thats just me. Say no to +4 tomes.

Whenever you get a chance please send me your +4 tomes, as I can tell from your deep level of conviction and high moral values that you would never sink so low as to use one... ;)

Happy hunting

Lorien_the_First_One
06-18-2008, 11:46 AM
Tomes hit +5 in PnP before Epic levels. Considering that DDO has gone above and beyond the call for loot, it would be a surprise if they didn't include them by level 20.

Yes, but you are damn lucky if you find ONE +5 tome in your lifetime. Heck you are lucky if you find ONE +3 tome in your lifetime.

DDO is overpowered already in that we WILL find them, and in relatively large numbers. Plus we have all the silly enhancements to inflate us in other ways that aren't in D&D.

Talon_Moonshadow
06-18-2008, 11:49 AM
I wish we didnt have the loot level we have now and that masterwork items would have meant something. But thats just me. Say no to +4 tomes.

I have mixed feeling on this.
I want the masterwork items to mean something, but I also want to pull good loot from chests.
As it is 90% of my good loot was either bought or passed down from higher toons.

Its sad that the best I can look forward to from a chest is a nice item for a lowbie.

IMO
Lvl 1 quest = normal items
2 = masterwork
3 = +1
4 = +2
5 = +3
6 = +4
7 = +5
and 8 should see those special effects dropping.

Make end rewards slightly better. and prevent trading of items....I was never able to do that in PnP.

I like uber loot, but I want to pull it from a chest....not buy it.
And I do want masterwork to mean something.....but I don't want to be using masterwork items at lvl 16 either.

Talon_Moonshadow
06-18-2008, 11:56 AM
Yes, but you are damn lucky if you find ONE +5 tome in your lifetime. Heck you are lucky if you find ONE +3 tome in your lifetime.

DDO is overpowered already in that we WILL find them, and in relatively large numbers. Plus we have all the silly enhancements to inflate us in other ways that aren't in D&D.

In PnP you don't slay 60 dragons in your life time.
Out loot tables are actually very close to PnP, but we do more questing and the lvl cap means we get more high end items than a PnP char of our lvl would.....because we actually have done enough adventures to be lvl 60 by now!

We don't have the lot of a lvl 16 char, becasause in reality we are way above that lvl now.....or would be if there was no cap.

Then you add AH and trading....which PnP usually does allow.

But since they cannot design content fast enough, there is really no other option.
No one will play a game with no reward and ways to advance.
In DDO the only way to advance is to get more loot.

Uproar
06-18-2008, 11:58 AM
I have mixed feeling on this.
I want the masterwork items to mean something, but I also want to pull good loot from chests.
As it is 90% of my good loot was either bought or passed down from higher toons.

Its sad that the best I can look forward to from a chest is a nice item for a lowbie.

IMO
Lvl 1 quest = normal items
2 = masterwork
3 = +1
4 = +2
5 = +3
6 = +4
7 = +5
and 8 should see those special effects dropping.

I like that progression, but the issue I think is that there is very little measurable difference in ability to win a conflict between using normal weapons and masterwork and assuming two things: at level 8 you go back to finding a +1 with a special effect and items found level 8 and above are unusable to level 1-7s and maybe another breakpoint up around 14 or so.

Make end rewards slightly better. and prevent trading of items....I was never able to do that in PnP.

I like uber loot, but I want to pull it from a chest....not buy it.
And I do want masterwork to mean something.....but I don't want to be using masterwork items at lvl 16 either.

QuantumFX
06-18-2008, 12:00 PM
The +4/+5 tomes are in the same boat as the level appropriate +8 armor braciers, Ring of Evasion, Cloak of the mountebank, Brilliant Energy weapons, and Magic instruments. We should have access to them but... don't... thanks to some sort of bizarre "to Monty Haul or not to monty haul" schizophrenia process this game is going through.

Talon_Moonshadow
06-18-2008, 12:08 PM
I like that progression, but the issue I think is that there is very little measurable difference in ability to win a conflict between using normal weapons and masterwork and assuming two things: at level 8 you go back to finding a +1 with a special effect and items found level 8 and above are unusable to level 1-7s and maybe another breakpoint up around 14 or so.
.

Sounds good.

I also like my loot to look good.
I would love a masterwork item that was very outstanding in appearance.

Also would like to see crafting require masterwork items......maybe even one's you can't buy.
I know you should be able to buy masterwork items but they should be rare.....maybe the vendor has a die roll to see if he has one available.

I'd like crafting what we actually want to be easier.
Collect a few things in a quest (afew things.....not a million!....and a few things that actualy drop often!) and then craft a nice item for low lvls.

Get adamantine ore from a kobold mine on kobold island........pay money to make an adamantine sword to use in STK.

Rekker
06-18-2008, 12:16 PM
I pulled a +5 outta the hound on elite...RR Half-Orc ML 20

Dawnblade
06-18-2008, 01:15 PM
I wouldn't mind if the tomes stopped at +3. As far as the monty hall loot, it would require an adjustment of the loot tables downward, and even then there would still be monty hall loot. The "problem" is that people play a lot. Statistically, if it's possible for an item to drop eventually it will if you run the quests enough times. Uber loot drops with more frequency because people are able to repeat quests with great frequency. Really, the only way to prevent it is to remove uber items from the loot tables so it never drops.

The way WOW kind of deals with this is by adding reset timers to the high end dungeons. That way you can only do certain instances like once or twice a week. It doesn't stop everyone from getting uber loot but it slows down the process. Is there no such system in DDO? It seems simple enough and it would help slow down the endless loot problem. Also most high end stuff in WOW is bind on acquire. I know this is not WOW and I'll probably be flamed for mentioning it, but I thought it was worth mentioning. *shrug*

Then another "fix" (although it wouldn't apply to tomes) is durability damage until the item is finally unusable. There is already the durability bar on items but I have not been playing long enough to know if items eventually become totally broken and unrepairable or not. SWG had something like that. All items, uber or not, would take damage with use.

Lorien_the_First_One
06-18-2008, 01:16 PM
The way WOW kind of deals with this is by adding reset timers to the high end dungeons. That way you can only do certain instances like once or twice a week. It doesn't stop everyone from getting uber loot but it slows down the process. Is there no such system in DDO? It seems simple enough and it would help slow down the endless loot problem. Also most high end stuff in WOW is bind on acquire. I know this is not WOW and I'll probably be flamed for mentioning it, but I thought it was worth mentioning. *shrug*

"Raids" have a 3ish day timer.



Then another "fix" (although it wouldn't apply to tomes) is durability damage until the item is finally unusable. There is already the durability bar on items but I have not been playing long enough to know if items eventually become totally broken and unrepairable or not. SWG had something like that. All items, uber or not, would take damage with use.

Damage is repairable, but each repair has a chance of permanent damage. It is possible to lose an item to damage, but generally that takes quite a while.

Dawnblade
06-18-2008, 01:23 PM
Ok. Good.

Do we think that increasing the timer and/or the durability damage would help any?

Not trying to hijack the thread or anything... :D

Beherit_Baphomar
06-18-2008, 01:27 PM
I pulled a +5 outta the hound on elite...RR Half-Orc ML 20

"Do not open till 2012...or whenever Turbine gets around to Half-orcs"??

samagee
06-18-2008, 01:41 PM
i Have more of a problem of 5 runs of the new raid and no loot items dropping, ran three runs of the hound and two of the other raid. Best loot pulled by someone was that they got both a vorpal and a para weapon. So that 12 players for 4 runs and 11 on the fifth so 59 chances at pulling a raid item with the assumed one in 6 chance and nothing. SO either the devs decreased the spawn rate for these raids, or something else, mind you one of the hound raid was done on hard.

I suggest that a further improvement to the raid loot is 1/6 chance and a minium of 1 raid item per every 5 people in a quest, so a group or ten or more would have at least two people get a raid item, and everyone else has the normal one in six chance

Why not just play something like NWN where you can make your own god weaps and items?

Riddikulus
06-18-2008, 02:54 PM
"Do not open till 2012...or whenever Turbine gets around to Half-orcs"??
Hopefully before December 22... ;)

I think we'll see bound +4 tomes within 6 months and bound +5 tomes late next year.

Not holding my breath for half-orcs nor druids.

MageLL
06-18-2008, 03:23 PM
Who said they weren't in yet. Has anybody completed the Hound or VoD 20 times yet? Since that would take 3 months. I'm going with no.

That said yes it would be nice to have them, my 28pt builds I still play would find them helpfull. However my characters all still fit into groups just fine even as 28pt builds and never having looted a single +3 tome.

greystone306
06-18-2008, 04:11 PM
Hopefully before December 22... ;)

I think we'll see bound +4 tomes within 6 months and bound +5 tomes late next year.

Not holding my breath for half-orcs nor druids.


did you misread what he was replying to

the post he was replying to was about somebody else pulling a tome that had a ML required 20 and Race Required Half-orc............. so by the rest of your post if things hold true they would not be able to use that tome before December 22nd without bypassing it's requirements with UMD.

Riddikulus
06-18-2008, 04:52 PM
did you misread what he was replying to

the post he was replying to was about somebody else pulling a tome that had a ML required 20 and Race Required Half-orc............. so by the rest of your post if things hold true they would not be able to use that tome before December 22nd without bypassing it's requirements with UMD.

No i didn't misread it... I just made a lame and convoluted attempt at humor.

December 22, 2012 is the date the aliens invade Earth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Truth_%28The_X-Files%29), so hopefully half-orcs will be out before then.

But again I think +4 tomes will be out later this year, and much more likely before half-orcs.

tenga
06-19-2008, 02:19 AM
I pulled a +5 outta the hound on elite...RR Half-Orc ML 20

funny, i pulled a +6 double mace, rr half orc, from that same chest

tenga
06-19-2008, 02:22 AM
also, i wouldn't mind seeing tomes for skills and resists, like a will save +2 tome, or a umd skill +3 tome and such.

In_Like_Flynn
06-19-2008, 10:35 AM
ugh, level 18 raids, level 19-20 loot, no +4 tomes??Stop the madness! No +4 tomes!

Riggs
06-19-2008, 12:47 PM
I would rather see unbound +3 tomes dropping from elite level 18 quests first.

Right now having to run a raid 20 times to get 1 tome...maybe... (reaver or otherwise) is a real grind.

Accelerando
06-19-2008, 12:54 PM
also, i wouldn't mind seeing tomes for skills and resists, like a will save +2 tome, or a umd skill +3 tome and such.

I like the way you think.

Dawnblade
06-19-2008, 01:19 PM
I think I would rather get more interesting quests with creative plots, traps and puzzles instead of getting +57 tomes. But those kinds of quests do take longer to develop and the ending wouldn't be as "shiny"...