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View Full Version : Problem w/monk and dual weilding?



bverji
06-17-2008, 11:05 AM
I have a ranger 6 monk 2 and I had noticed a couple of things that seem odd. First is when single weilding a club. I seem to lose proficiency when I equip a club. My to hit drops by 5 or 6 points (i assume I'm losing proficiency and monk bonus)

My second problem I noticed is that while dual weilding kama's my to hit is like 17 but if i switch to a staff it drops to 10.

These drops don't seem consistant. Is this a known issue; am I missing something I hadn't thought of? It seems like I am losing proficiency bonuses and monk bonuses when I shouldn't be (i realise cluds aren't a monk weapon and should of lost that bonus). I haven't bugged it yet because i wanted to make sure it wasn't an issue known or that I wasn't seeing something.

MrCow
06-17-2008, 11:13 AM
I seem to lose proficiency when I equip a club. My to hit drops by 5 or 6 points (i assume I'm losing proficiency and monk bonus)

My second problem I noticed is that while dual weilding kama's my to hit is like 17 but if i switch to a staff it drops to 10.

I have two questions:


Are you using Weapon Finesse?
Is your DEX much higher than your STR?

ehcsztein
06-17-2008, 11:13 AM
Are you finesse based?

Milolyen
06-17-2008, 04:33 PM
By your statements I am going to assume you are dex based and have weapon finesse. Neither q-staff nor clubs are finesse weapons. You are proficient in clubs but clubs are not ki weapons so you lose those stance then with them not being finessable you lose the to hit bonus that gives you as well. Hope that clears it up. The only bonus you are really going to get with a tempist ranger/monk build is when you duel weild kama's. Unarmed combat (while it is finessable) is considered Two-Handed fighting but you do not gain the benifets of two handed fighting.

Milolyen

bverji
06-18-2008, 01:02 PM
ahh, thx for the response. I didn't realise that some melee weapons didn't work with Weapon Finesse. Seems a bit odd to me; I am train in bo and escrima and can tell you that speed, prescion, timing and agility are far more important then brute strength. But, a game is a game I guess.

djsonar919
06-18-2008, 01:08 PM
ahh, thx for the response. I didn't realise that some melee weapons didn't work with Weapon Finesse. Seems a bit odd to me; I am train in bo and escrima and can tell you that speed, prescion, timing and agility are far more important then brute strength. But, a game is a game I guess.

I’d say staves should be finesseable. After all most martial artists don’t just brandish a stave in combat like a barbarian would.

Lorien_the_First_One
06-18-2008, 01:14 PM
ahh, thx for the response. I didn't realise that some melee weapons didn't work with Weapon Finesse. Seems a bit odd to me; I am train in bo and escrima and can tell you that speed, prescion, timing and agility are far more important then brute strength. But, a game is a game I guess.

The weapon has to be classified as "light" to get credit for it as finessable in D&D

Milolyen
06-18-2008, 01:19 PM
ahh, thx for the response. I didn't realise that some melee weapons didn't work with Weapon Finesse. Seems a bit odd to me; I am train in bo and escrima and can tell you that speed, prescion, timing and agility are far more important then brute strength. But, a game is a game I guess.

It is more about the weapon being unweildy. It is hard to use a club with any kind of real finesse and is more about the str to bash your target and the same goes for heavier weapons. Correct me if I am wrong but aren't Bo's generally thinner and lighter than a quarter staff is and there for aim and speed (dex) makes it much more likely you will hit where a Q-staff is harder to wield with any kind of finesse and is more about just bashing the target. Same goes for rapiers and short swords compaired to longswords.

Milolyen

*edit*the feat section of DDO.com should have a full list under the feat weapon finesse.

VirieSquichie
06-18-2008, 04:03 PM
It is more about the weapon being unweildy. It is hard to use a club with any kind of real finesse and is more about the str to bash your target and the same goes for heavier weapons. Correct me if I am wrong but aren't Bo's generally thinner and lighter than a quarter staff is and there for aim and speed (dex) makes it much more likely you will hit where a Q-staff is harder to wield with any kind of finesse and is more about just bashing the target. Same goes for rapiers and short swords compaired to longswords.

Milolyen

*edit*the feat section of DDO.com should have a full list under the feat weapon finesse.

Actually, having seen a quarterstaff demo once I can say with certainty that precision and speed were well represented. The folks doing the demo had two thicknesses, the larger being big and heavy enough I doubt anyone would be in much of a position to argue further if they got hit by it full force.

Faced with a greatsword-swinging lunatic or an expert quarterstaff wielder, I'd take my chances with the greatsword any day.

Riggs
06-19-2008, 12:58 PM
Previous statements by devs were 'we are looking at' making staves finesseable.

A large 6 foot hunk of wood is hard to argue that it is a dex based weapon.

However a martial 5 foot lighter staff is most definately a finessable weapon. And will be doing just as much damage from the increase in speed. A bamboo 6 foot staff would be lighter and faster than an old english oak staff too.

So rather than making new staves, just like longswords are an approximation of many variations of edged swords - it would be simple to just make staves finesse.

And considering monks are not getting green steel handwraps it seems, the only blunt weapon otherwise is a light mace for a finesse build....and there is no real value to making a non-ki weapon for a monk to get an extra -4 non-proficiency penalty on top.

Ruling that staves are a 'monk weapon' and NOT making them finessable is a big waste. Sure some monks are going to be str based - but most are going to be dex based. And since most of the other 'monk weapons' from the books are not available....