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Aranticus
06-15-2008, 08:18 PM
The idea of this thread came from a few sources. Previously, when I was bored and no one would join my groups, I would list in my LFMs "Come learn to speak to a farmer!". Recently, I also participated in one server thread where people were asking if there was any "unofficial" thread. The result it this!

Before I begin, some self introduction. I'm Chinese by race, Singaporean by nationality. Singapore is a small sunny island state situated at the tip of the Malaysian Pennisular. Population is approximately 60% Chinese, 22% Malay, 12% Indian and 6% Others. English is our first language and we also learn our mother tongue, which in my case, Mandarin.

As many people have problems with the pronunciation, Mandarin characters are taught using Hanyu Pinyin. It is sort of a direct translation of phonetics in English. However, there is a slight difference. In the English phonetics, there is usually a set to represent a particular sound, but in Hanyu Pinyin, there are four. We have what we call "sounds" for each. Sound come in 4 varieties which we represent using -, /, \/ and \. These symbols are usually placed on top of the vowel. However, it is difficult to put them in text and in some books, usually represented by (1), (2), (3) and (4) respectively.

The "-" sound or the first sound is to pronounce the word without variation in tone. The "/" sound or the second sound is to pronounce it with an increaing pitch. For "\/" or the third sound, the pitch drops slightly then picks up. And the "\" or the fourth sound is a short downward tone with a sharp cutoff.

Take the word "pin" for example. pin(1) can signify the word to represent "fight". pin(2) can signify the word to represent "piece together". pin(3) can signify the word to represent "bottle". Last but not lease, pin(4) can signify the word to represent "hire". This is not the end yet for there can be many words with the same Hanyu Pinyin pronunciation. In addition, the same word cand also have a few pronunciation.

Have fun with this guide and hope this helps people communicate better.

Lesson 1 - Greetings/Introductions (DDO style)

Ni(2) Hao(3) - ni = you, hao = good, meaning "how are you?"

Ni(2) Shi(4) Na(3) Li(3) Ren(2) - shi = yes, na = there, li = in, ren = person, meaning "where are you from?"

Wo(3) Lai(2) Zhi(4) Mei(3) Guo(2) - wo = me, lai = come, zhi = from, mei = beautiful, guo = country, meaning "I'm from America"

Ni(2) Hui(4) Jiang(3) Ying(1) Yu(3) Ma(1) - hui = will, jiang = speak, ying yu = english, ma = ending for question "do you speak English?"

Ni(2) Zai(4) Na(3) Li(3) - zai = at, meaning "where are you?"

Wo(3) Men(2) Zai(4) <insert quest name> - men = group, meaning "we are at <insert quest name>"

Lesson 2: Conversations with a Plat Seller

dui(4) bu(4) qi(3) - dui = right, bu = no, qi = up, meaning "sorry"

wo(3) bu(4) yao(4) mai(3) jin(1) - yao = want, mai = buy, jin = gold, meaning "i do not want to buy gold/plat"

qing(3) ni(3) bu(4) yao(4) shao(1) rao(3) wo(3) - qing = please, shao rao = harass, meaning "please do not harass me"

ni(3) zai(4) zhe(4) yiang(4) wo(3) ke(3) yao(4) kao(4) ni(3) - zhe = this, yiang = thing, ke = will, kao = sue, meaning "if you continue do it, i'll will sue you"

qing(3) ni(3) xiang(4) ning(3) mu(3) qin(1) wen(4) hao(3) - xiang = towards, ning = your, mu = female, qin = relative, wen = ask, meaning "please say hi to your mother for me"

Lesson 3: Simple Pronunciations

In hanyu pinyin, each pronunciation is actually made up of two parts. Its similar to English.

English example:

oe when combined with f gives foe and with t give toe, both have similar endings but the "front" sound is different.

In hanyu pinyin, it is the same.

Common endings:

a - "ah" (English equivalent of pronunciation), i - "e", u - "oo", e - "eh", o - "oar"

Common starts:
s - "ser", k - "ker", n - "ner", m - "mer", t - "ter" (note: the "er" is silent)

Example:
ma = mer+ah, pronounced as "mah"

ni = ner+e, pronounced as "nee"

ku = ker+oo, pronounced as "koo"

so = ser+oar, pronounced as "soar"

te = ter+eh, pronounced as "teh"

Lesson 4: Greetings (in general)

zao(3) an(1): zao = early, an = safe, meaning "good morning"

wu(3) an(1): wu = noon, meaning "good afternoon"

wan(3) an(1): wan = late, meaning "good night"

ni(3) chi(1) bao(3) le(4) ma(1): chi = eat, bao = full, meaning "have you eaten?"

xin(4) hui(4): "pleased to" (usually, xin hui xin hui is used to mean "pleased to meet you")

hen(3) gao(1) xing(4) ren(4) shi(4) ni(3): hen = very, gao = high, xing = happy, ren shi = know, meaning "pleased to meet you"

ni(3) hia(2) hao(3) ba(4): hai = are, ba = question ending, meaning "are you well?"

Lesson 5: Salutations

xie(4) xie(4): xie = thanks, meaning "thank you"

ni(3) gan(4) de(4) hen(3) hao(3): dan = did, meaning "you did very well"

zai(4) jian(4): zai = again, jian = see, meaning "see you again"

gong(1) xi(3) ni(3): gong xi = congratulations, meaning "grats to you"

xia(4) chi(4) zai(4) yi(4) qi(2) you(3) xi(4): xia = down, chi = attempt, yi qi = again, you xi = game, meaning "we'll party again the next time we meet"

pjw
06-15-2008, 11:00 PM
Give us some MP3 files to go with your examples....both correct and incorrect pronunciations.

Samadhi
06-15-2008, 11:13 PM
Bah - give us profanity!!

Bronko
06-16-2008, 12:00 AM
Very interesting thread.

I'd chat with you for practice but my Mandarin sucks. If you want to swap for Cantonese lessons I'm all game. ;)

Caelan
06-16-2008, 12:06 AM
can we go more simply?

Stop

Go

Gather

buffs

heal

block

loot

wait

can't think of others... but those would be way more useful than "where are you from" because if i'm asking it and they don't respond, or respond in a language i don't recognize, the answer doesn't really matter. i actually have a set of mandarin chinese flash cards for kids to learn and they use the same system for roman spelling and pronunciation keys. i figure if grade-schoolers can learn this stuff, then DDO gamers who have memorized maps, puzzles, strategies, dps algorithms, ritual recipes, and countless other inane things for this game should be able to learn at least a handful of commands.

oh yeah... and thanks! good thread idea.

Dariuss
06-16-2008, 12:15 AM
hmm... cool though

i appreciate your efforts here... i've seen (too often, actually) people treated poorly in gorups because of a simple lack of communication ability

i don't know how much help this thread will do, but i wish it the best of luck...

i will say this: foreign != dumb

Kindoki
06-16-2008, 12:16 AM
Great thread idea. I have a pimsleur cd set that has been collecting dust that I have been meaning to bring out again. One of the great failings of the US is our lack of secondary languages - and Chinese is right up there with Spanish in usefulness. Even a few DDO words is better than nothing!

honkuimushi
06-16-2008, 03:33 AM
Maybe not entirely on topic, but I had a question about mei(3).

The first time I encountered it was when a panda was born at the San Diego Zoo and it was named Hua Mei, or China- USA. Now a few years later I gained some experience with Japanese and noticed that the old name for the U.S. was bei-koku (米国.) This bei is still used in terms like bei-gun(米軍-U.S. Armed Forces), and nichi-bei taiketsu (日米対決- U.S. vs Japan match.) But this bei, also pronounced mai, means (uncooked) rice. I had believed that bei and mei used the same character. Am I wrong, or was there a change in meaning when the Japanese adopted the charater? 美 (mi) is the character that is generally used for beauty in Japan, but there are no associations with the U.S. as far as I know. Sorry for the hijack, I just wanted to clarify my understanding.

Aranticus
06-16-2008, 04:36 AM
Maybe not entirely on topic, but I had a question about mei(3).

The first time I encountered it was when a panda was born at the San Diego Zoo and it was named Hua Mei, or China- USA. Now a few years later I gained some experience with Japanese and noticed that the old name for the U.S. was bei-koku (米国.) This bei is still used in terms like bei-gun(米軍-U.S. Armed Forces), and nichi-bei taiketsu (日米対決- U.S. vs Japan match.) But this bei, also pronounced mai, means (uncooked) rice. I had believed that bei and mei used the same character. Am I wrong, or was there a change in meaning when the Japanese adopted the charater? 美 (mi) is the character that is generally used for beauty in Japan, but there are no associations with the U.S. as far as I know. Sorry for the hijack, I just wanted to clarify my understanding.

as far as i know, the official chinese name for US is mei guo 美国. the old name 米国 is commonly used as 美 in a chinese dialect is pronounced as 米 (bee (note: dialect, not hanyu pinyin). as for the japanese name, that i'm not too sure

Aranticus
06-16-2008, 04:46 AM
Lesson 2: Conversations with a Plat Seller

dui(4) bu(4) qi(3) - dui = right, bu = no, qi = up, meaning "sorry"

wo(3) bu(4) yao(4) mai(3) jin(1) - yao = want, mai = buy, jin = gold, meaning "i do not want to buy gold/plat"

qing(3) ni(3) bu(4) yao(4) shao(1) rao(3) wo(3) - qing = please, shao rao = harass, meaning "please do not harass me"

ni(3) zai(4) zhe(4) yiang(4) wo(3) ke(3) yao(4) kao(4) ni(3) - zhe = this, yiang = thing, ke = will, kao = sue, meaning "if you continue do it, i'll will sue you"

qing(3) ni(3) xiang(4) ning(3) mu(3) qin(1) wen(4) hao(3) - xiang = towards, ning = your, mu = female, qin = relative, wen = ask, meaning "please say hi to your mother for me"

Aranticus
06-16-2008, 04:47 AM
Very interesting thread.

I'd chat with you for practice but my Mandarin sucks. If you want to swap for Cantonese lessons I'm all game. ;)

heh, i can speak cantonese and hokkien too

Aranticus
06-16-2008, 04:55 AM
can we go more simply?

Stop ting(4)

Go chi(4)

Gather ju(4) he(3)

buffs no chinese version but can be loosely translated as zhen(1) tian(1) yu(4) fang(3) mo(2) shu(4) (add defensive magics)

heal hui(1) fu(4) (restore) sheng(1) ming(4) (life)

block ding(3)

loot bao(3) wu(4) (treasure)

wait deng(3)

can't think of others... but those would be way more useful than "where are you from" because if i'm asking it and they don't respond, or respond in a language i don't recognize, the answer doesn't really matter. i actually have a set of mandarin chinese flash cards for kids to learn and they use the same system for roman spelling and pronunciation keys. i figure if grade-schoolers can learn this stuff, then DDO gamers who have memorized maps, puzzles, strategies, dps algorithms, ritual recipes, and countless other inane things for this game should be able to learn at least a handful of commands.

oh yeah... and thanks! good thread idea.

answers

TheMerc
06-16-2008, 06:46 AM
Don't suppose anyone know's Korean and could teach some words to a newbie? I'm over on Ghallanda, and I think it'd be cool to be able to converse a little more with some people I've played with over there, they've generally made an effort to speak the basics, figure I could learn some as well.

KiwiJoe
06-16-2008, 07:02 AM
The idea of this thread came from a few sources. Previously, when I was bored and no one would join my groups, I would list in my LFMs "Come learn to speak to a farmer!". Recently, I also participated in one server thread where people were asking if there was any "unofficial" thread. The result it this!

Before I begin, some self introduction. I'm Chinese by race, Singaporean by nationality. Singapore is a small sunny island state situated at the tip of the Malaysian Pennisular. Population is approximately 60% Chinese, 22% Malay, 12% Indian and 6% Others. English is our first language and we also learn our mother tongue, which in my case, Mandarin.

As many people have problems with the pronunciation, Mandarin characters are taught using Hanyu Pinyin. It is sort of a direct translation of phonetics in English. However, there is a slight difference. In the English phonetics, there is usually a set to represent a particular sound, but in Hanyu Pinyin, there are four. We have what we call "sounds" for each. Sound come in 4 varieties which we represent using -, /, \/ and \. These symbols are usually placed on top of the vowel. However, it is difficult to put them in text and in some books, usually represented by (1), (2), (3) and (4) respectively.

The "-" sound or the first sound is to pronounce the word without variation in tone. The "/" sound or the second sound is to pronounce it with an increaing pitch. For "\/" or the third sound, the pitch drops slightly then picks up. And the "\" or the fourth sound is a short downward tone with a sharp cutoff.

Take the word "pin" for example. pin(1) can signify the word to represent "fight". pin(2) can signify the word to represent "piece together". pin(3) can signify the word to represent "bottle". Last but not lease, pin(4) can signify the word to represent "hire". This is not the end yet for there can be many words with the same Hanyu Pinyin pronunciation. In addition, the same word cand also have a few pronunciation.

Have fun with this guide and hope this helps people communicate better.

Lesson 1 - Greetings/Introductions (DDO style)

Ni(2) Hao(3) - ni = you, hao = good, meaning "how are you?"

Ni(2) Shi(4) Na(3) Li(3) Ren(2) - shi = yes, na = there, li = in, ren = person, meaning "where are you from?"

Wo(3) Lai(2) Zhi(4) Mei(3) Guo(2) - wo = me, lai = come, zhi = from, mei = beautiful, guo = country, meaning "I'm from America"

Ni(2) Hui(4) Jiang(3) Ying(1) Yu(3) Ma(1) - hui = will, jiang = speak, ying yu = english, ma = ending for question "do you speak English?"

Ni(2) Zai(4) Na(3) Li(3) - zai = at, meaning "where are you?"

Wo(3) Men(2) Zai(4) <insert quest name> - men = group, meaning "we are at <insert quest name>"

Good God... No wonder Chinese people are so smart; everyone of average intelligence or less never figures out how to communicate and staves to death in childhood. ;/

Teech
06-16-2008, 07:30 AM
Sarlona is having an influx of chinese players (DDO China went down I believe) so I think this is a good idea.
I would suggest, however, that players leave out that intonation (1-4) stuff because its usually quite clear what you're trying to say w/o all those numbers cluttering it up. I actually find it harder to read with the numbers. Just keep to the simple stuff.





Stop - http://www.chinalanguage.com/dictionaries/cedict/images/bracket_open.gif 停 (http://www.chinalanguage.com/dictionaries/ccdict/view.php?query=505C&encoding=text)http://www.chinalanguage.com/dictionaries/cedict/images/bracket_close.gif t*ng (ting2)

Go - http://www.chinalanguage.com/dictionaries/cedict/images/bracket_open.gif 去 (http://www.chinalanguage.com/dictionaries/ccdict/view.php?query=53BB&encoding=text)http://www.chinalanguage.com/dictionaries/cedict/images/bracket_close.gif qù (qu4)

Gather - http://www.chinalanguage.com/dictionaries/pydict/images/bracket_open.gif 聚 (http://www.chinalanguage.com/dictionaries/ccdict/view.php?query=805A&encoding=text)合 (http://www.chinalanguage.com/dictionaries/ccdict/view.php?query=5408&encoding=text)http://www.chinalanguage.com/dictionaries/pydict/images/bracket_close.gif jù hé (ju4 he2)

buffs - don't know direct translation for this. would suggest just asking them to gather (ju he). Or 'come to me' (lai wo ze bian)

heal - http://www.chinalanguage.com/dictionaries/ecdict/images/bracket_open.gif 癒 (http://www.chinalanguage.com/dictionaries/ccdict/view.php?query=7652&encoding=text)http://www.chinalanguage.com/dictionaries/ecdict/images/bracket_close.gif yù (yu4) / http://www.chinalanguage.com/dictionaries/ecdict/images/bracket_open.gif 医 (http://www.chinalanguage.com/dictionaries/ccdict/view.php?query=533B&encoding=text)治 (http://www.chinalanguage.com/dictionaries/ccdict/view.php?query=6CBB&encoding=text)http://www.chinalanguage.com/dictionaries/ecdict/images/bracket_close.gif yī zhì (yi1 zhi4)

block - http://www.chinalanguage.com/dictionaries/ecdict/images/bracket_open.gif 防 (http://www.chinalanguage.com/dictionaries/ccdict/view.php?query=9632&encoding=text)http://www.chinalanguage.com/dictionaries/ecdict/images/bracket_close.gif fáng (fang2) This also means 'defend'

loot - http://www.chinalanguage.com/dictionaries/ecdict/images/bracket_open.gif 宝 (http://www.chinalanguage.com/dictionaries/ccdict/view.php?query=5B9D&encoding=text)物 (http://www.chinalanguage.com/dictionaries/ccdict/view.php?query=7269&encoding=text)http://www.chinalanguage.com/dictionaries/ecdict/images/bracket_close.gif bǎo wù (bao3 wu4)

wait - http://www.chinalanguage.com/dictionaries/ecdict/images/bracket_open.gif 等 (http://www.chinalanguage.com/dictionaries/ccdict/view.php?query=7B49&encoding=text)http://www.chinalanguage.com/dictionaries/ecdict/images/bracket_close.gif děng (deng3) I prefer 'deng yi xia' (wait a while)




Also. This one doesn't seem very easy for someone new to use, but might be helpful for those willing to explore.

http://www.chinalanguage.com/dictionaries/ecdict/

Bekki
06-16-2008, 07:49 AM
Like the Idea, Outstanding initiative.

I love to see player's finding ways to work togther
to make the game more enjoyable.

My wife and oldest son are from the Philippines
so I can truly relate this.

I have played with several players from
China, the Philippines, and South America.

It was fun, key is to slow down and take your time (when you can)
Thank you for the info, I will make it a point to practice.

Again, outsatnding initiative.
This thread has my vote for thread of the week!

Kalari
06-16-2008, 12:44 PM
Cool Thread Aranticus I think it will help alot of player miscommunication. And I always like learning new things ^_^

DelScorcho
06-16-2008, 02:02 PM
Going to be tough. I can't even communicate with the Canadian players ...

Caelan
06-16-2008, 02:17 PM
thanks for the translations... yeah, think i'll avoid the numbers if i can and hope the concept gets through based on context. if not, i will use voice and after they stop laughing it should be fine. my feeling is if the non-english speaking players were to see some of us un-educated single language americans making an effort, it should be pretty smooth. as it is, i've got my cheat-sheet stickied up next to my monitor. :D

i do have a question... i've been noticing some LFMs with what appears to be chinese words in the notation. has any of you who do speak/read the language know if it is and if that is basically that person's way of flagging that run as a chines-speaking run?

Alavatar
06-16-2008, 04:47 PM
This reminds me of a conversation I had the other day with a player from Montreal. He said that he learned how to read and write English by playing PnP D&D and now he is learning how to speak English by playing DDO. Sounds like a great lesson plan to me!

HumanJHawkins
06-16-2008, 06:08 PM
<CUT>I gained some experience with Japanese and noticed that the old name for the U.S. was bei-koku (米国.) This bei is still used in terms like bei-gun(米軍-U.S. Armed Forces), and nichi-bei taiketsu (日米対決- U.S. vs Japan match.) But this bei, also pronounced mai, means (uncooked) rice. I had believed that bei and mei used the same character. Am I wrong, or was there a change in meaning when the Japanese adopted the charater? 美 (mi) is the character that is generally used for beauty in Japan, but there are no associations with the U.S. as far as I know. Sorry for the hijack, I just wanted to clarify my understanding.

My understanding of this is that America was called "Beautiful Country" early on. And when America helped to defeat Japan, Korea (and possibly also and China) were quite happy with the "Beautiful Country" designation. However, Japan was not. Japan instead started using "Rice Country" because America was seen as a land of wealth and bounty. But they definitely did not want to call it beautiful.

Teech
06-16-2008, 06:23 PM
thanks for the translations... yeah, think i'll avoid the numbers if i can and hope the concept gets through based on context. if not, i will use voice and after they stop laughing it should be fine. my feeling is if the non-english speaking players were to see some of us un-educated single language americans making an effort, it should be pretty smooth. as it is, i've got my cheat-sheet stickied up next to my monitor. :D

i do have a question... i've been noticing some LFMs with what appears to be chinese words in the notation. has any of you who do speak/read the language know if it is and if that is basically that person's way of flagging that run as a chines-speaking run?

If you're referring to chinese chracters in the LFM, I have not seen any and don't think DDO supports it at all.
If you're referring to romanized chinese like the Hanyu Pinyin we're referring to in this thread, then, yes, I've seen a number of LFMs like that. Some of them do ask specifically for 'zhong guo ren' (China nationals), or some variation thereof.
Others just use it as a means of communicating, the same way we do. (XP run, favor run, full series run, part 2 onwards, etc.)

Mmm. I'd be wary of trying to speak chinese using Hanyu Pinyin. I'm not a phonetics expert myself, but I doubt if Hanyu Pinyin can be considered phonetically accurate.
If you do try though, I'd sure like to be there to hear it. :D

HumanJHawkins
06-16-2008, 06:30 PM
Don't suppose anyone know's Korean and could teach some words to a newbie? I'm over on Ghallanda, and I think it'd be cool to be able to converse a little more with some people I've played with over there, they've generally made an effort to speak the basics, figure I could learn some as well.

You are going to need more than a forum, but here are a few words and phrases... All of these will sound funny if you don't say them quickly. For example, we don't pronounce English as "ing-lish". But if you didn't know how to pronounce it, saying "ing-lish" quickly would probably be a good start. I've put the official syllables first, and then how my foreign ears tend to hear it in parentheses.

Hello: yo-bo-se-yo (yo-bo-say-yo)
Goodbye: (Informal) an-young...

NOTE: This is short for either "anyunghikeyseyo" or "anyunghikaseyo" depending on whether you are the one leaving or not... Now you know why I just gave you the informal.
Thanks: kam-sa-ham-ni-da (kam-sam-ni-da)
Excuse me: shi-lyeh-ham-ni-da (shi-lay-ham-ni-da)

Please give me some frickin' awesome marinated beef: bul-go-gi chom chu-se-yo (Sounds just like it's spelled)

That last one is all you really need to know to survive in Korea. :D

Tyrande
06-16-2008, 06:53 PM
can we go more simply?

Stop

Go

Gather

buffs

heal

block

loot

wait



I think DDO should implement these emotes with spoken language by the character model him/herself
in the native install language of the DDO client program.

For example, if an US DDO client character press the "heal" button/quick key, the sound will play as the English spoken word
"heal" in US English. If a player in the group uses a French DDO client, it would have spoken "gu&#233;rissez" to the French DDO
client player. If a chinese DDO client is in the party, it would have spoken "治療" or just "醫" in additional to the
graphical displays already present in the emotes.

unionyes
06-16-2008, 07:08 PM
Going to be tough. I can't even communicate with the Canadian players ...

As a Canadian, I would like to apologize (see, I AM Canadian) for the communication breakdown.

Basically, we just say 'eh' after almost everything, eh? Treat it like an interrogative. There are a few other words, though...

Beer. Like yours, only better tasting and somewhat higher alcohol content. This combination is deadly to some Americans. Be careful.
Chips. You call them french fries. So do we, except sometimes. Fish and Chips would therefore mean Fish and Fries.
Caesar. Not the Roman emperor, but instead a tasty drink consisting of vodka, clamato juice (tomato juice with clam), spices, and celery.
Bi-Partisan. Actually, we don't have a word for that. We have five viable political parties instead of two.
News. Like yours, except without Glen Beck or Nancy Grace. More of a focus on what actually happened.
Beaver. Surprisingly, not the woodland rodent, but instead a beaver is a....well.....never mind.
Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Like your constitution, only without the phrases 'three fifths', or 'right to bear arms'.

Bronko
06-17-2008, 12:04 AM
Going to be tough. I can't even communicate with the Canadian players ...

Sorry to hear it man, but I'm curious if you're saying that you can't communicate with us because it's our fault or yours. I'm guessing yours. ;)

Let's go back to the intent of the original post. We'll practice our broken Mandarin with each other so we both have an excuse. :p

Kaldais
06-17-2008, 11:45 AM
The great inflex of chinese ddo players is due to the DDO China servers went down for couple month. Most of the loyal followers there decided to give it a try on the US servers. In fact there is a forum entry listing all the common english phrases and acryn. in the unoffical chinese DDO forum.

HumanJHawkins
06-17-2008, 02:23 PM
As a Canadian, I would like to apologize (see, I AM Canadian) for the communication breakdown.

<CUT>News. Like yours, except without Glen Beck or Nancy Grace. More of a focus on what actually happened.<CUT>


Is there any way to have that Canadian type news delivered here? I mean safely of course... You know. Without triggering anyone to launch a cruise missile strike in your general direction.

MageLL
06-17-2008, 05:46 PM
I wanted to learn Chinese for sometime. I even bought a "How To Speak" course and a chinese/english keyboard.

After the first 3 minutes of the first cd I was lost. The biggest thing is the exact same word annunciated in varying ways means something totally different.

The first lesson was the word: Ma
Which if I remember right could mean, Mom, OMG, Horse.. and something else. I listened as carefully as possible to the pronunciation of the said word and meanings, but could barely tell any difference.

I can't sing worth a **** either, I think it is because I'm tone deaf. Learning a language that is based off of the pronunciation of words rather then the words itself, just isn't something that I think I can learn.

Caelan
06-17-2008, 07:15 PM
The great inflex of chinese ddo players is due to the DDO China servers went down for couple month. Most of the loyal followers there decided to give it a try on the US servers. In fact there is a forum entry listing all the common english phrases and acryn. in the unoffical chinese DDO forum.

ooo... link? we could reverse it so easily.

TheMerc
06-17-2008, 07:41 PM
You are going to need more than a forum, but here are a few words and phrases... All of these will sound funny if you don't say them quickly. For example, we don't pronounce English as "ing-lish". But if you didn't know how to pronounce it, saying "ing-lish" quickly would probably be a good start. I've put the official syllables first, and then how my foreign ears tend to hear it in parentheses.

Hello: yo-bo-se-yo (yo-bo-say-yo)
Goodbye: (Informal) an-young...

NOTE: This is short for either "anyunghikeyseyo" or "anyunghikaseyo" depending on whether you are the one leaving or not... Now you know why I just gave you the informal.
Thanks: kam-sa-ham-ni-da (kam-sam-ni-da)
Excuse me: shi-lyeh-ham-ni-da (shi-lay-ham-ni-da)

Please give me some frickin' awesome marinated beef: bul-go-gi chom chu-se-yo (Sounds just like it's spelled)

That last one is all you really need to know to survive in Korea. :D

Thanks for that, I'm going to try and memorize some now :)

Uska
06-17-2008, 11:43 PM
Great job

GlassCannon
06-18-2008, 12:28 AM
answers

What tones.... I need some tonal observational material so I don't horribly butcher your language(if even by accident)!

Teech
06-18-2008, 01:08 AM
What tones.... I need some tonal observational material so I don't horribly butcher your language(if even by accident)!

download the wma at http://www.cheng-tsui.com/downloads/integrated_chinese_level_1_part_1_audio_sample

Gonna translate the first couple of lines into pinyin for your ref.

wo3 xing4 bai2
wo3 shi4 wang2 peng2 de4 tong2 xue2
wang2 peng2 xi3 huan1 tiao4 wu3, yue3 xi3 huan1 ting1 ying1 yue4

Hope this helps.

In English:
My surname is 'bai'
I am Wang Peng's classmate.
Wang Peng likes to dance, and also likes to listen to music.

Aranticus
06-18-2008, 01:54 AM
What tones.... I need some tonal observational material so I don't horribly butcher your language(if even by accident)!

no worries, all caucasians slaughter my language irregardless where they have been, what they have done....... my wife's cousin's sister-in-law is a hawallian who studied chinese in beijing for 10 years and she still sounds funny.... :D

Caelan
06-18-2008, 10:24 AM
What tones.... I need some tonal observational material so I don't horribly butcher your language(if even by accident)!

disclaimer: i do not speak this language. this is just info on pronunciation that i've gathered from the forums here and my kids' flash cards. i'm hoping if i'm way off base i will be corrected... you know... before i actually get the wrong sound stuck in my head.

pinyin letter = english phoenetic sound

q = ch
x = sh
z = dz
e = uh
ui = way
ü = eu

accent marks and how they effect pronunciation

1: ē = flat pitch, slightly higher than regular speech. (the english word pin is said with a flat pitch
2: é = rising pitch, like a question (in english, just add a question mark after it, like why?)
3: ĕ = falling, then rising pitch (in english i think of this as two syllables... the first low and the second as a question... think of the english slang for a female dog... phonetically beee atch)
4: è = falling pitch (this one i also think of as two syllables but instead of ending in a question tone, i continue the pitch low like an elongated sound... uhm... like the example for gather was jù hé i would say as jew huh?)

am i close?

Aranticus
06-18-2008, 10:52 AM
disclaimer: i do not speak this language. this is just info on pronunciation that i've gathered from the forums here and my kids' flash cards. i'm hoping if i'm way off base i will be corrected... you know... before i actually get the wrong sound stuck in my head.

pinyin letter = english phoenetic sound

q = ch
x = sh
z = dz
e = uh
ui = way
ü = eu

accent marks and how they effect pronunciation

1: ē = flat pitch, slightly higher than regular speech. (the english word pin is said with a flat pitch
2: é = rising pitch, like a question (in english, just add a question mark after it, like why?)
3: ĕ = falling, then rising pitch (in english i think of this as two syllables... the first low and the second as a question... think of the english slang for a female dog... phonetically beee atch)
4: è = falling pitch (this one i also think of as two syllables but instead of ending in a question tone, i continue the pitch low like an elongated sound... uhm... like the example for gather was jù hé i would say as jew huh?)

am i close?

almost there! :D

Kaldais
06-18-2008, 11:08 AM
ooo... link? we could reverse it so easily.

check out www.ebecn.com, of course you will have to be able to read/write Chinese there.

Aranticus
06-18-2008, 11:08 AM
Lesson 3: Simple Pronunciations

In hanyu pinyin, each pronunciation is actually made up of two parts. Its similar to English.

English example:

oe when combined with f gives foe and with t give toe, both have similar endings but the "front" sound is different.

In hanyu pinyin, it is the same.

Common endings:

a - "ah" (English equivalent of pronunciation), i - "e", u - "oo", e - "eh", o - "oar"

Common starts:
s - "ser", k - "ker", n - "ner", m - "mer", t - "ter" (note: the "er" is silent)

Example:
ma = mer+ah, pronounced as "mah"

ni = ner+e, pronounced as "nee"

ku = ker+oo, pronounced as "koo"

so = ser+oar, pronounced as "soar"

te = ter+eh, pronounced as "teh"

Caelan
06-18-2008, 11:13 AM
okay... question about double vowels. do you pronoune them separate (like science is two syllables) or do you say one over the other (like pie you pronounce the i but not the e)? if you only pronounce one, which gets pronounced? first? second? changes?

i ask because in your example of wait a while... deng(3) yi xia i was trying to figure out how to say the last word, xia. is it shee-ah... shah... shee-ay... shih-ah... shih-ay... shih...

which brought up the next question... do vowels without any accent pronounce long or short. like yi from deng(3) yi xia. is it an i like in pin (yih) or an i like in pie (yie). because every time i see yi my instinct is to say yee. lol

Edit: you were posting at the same time as me on the same subject... answering my questions... a little freaky

HumanJHawkins
06-18-2008, 03:02 PM
After the first 3 minutes of the first cd I was lost. The biggest thing is the exact same word annunciated in varying ways means something totally different.<CUT>
I listened as carefully as possible to the pronunciation of the said word and meanings, but could barely tell any difference.

I lived in Korea where no one spoke English and I could not eat without attempting to communicate in Korean. It took me at least 6 months of that before I could hear the difference between two of their "o" vowels. And Korean is not even a tonal language.

The good news is that it doesn't make a heck of a lot of difference. Communication is a redundant system. If you get the pronunciation wrong, most people can easily and naturally figure out what you are trying to say via context, tone, and body language.

For example, pick a sentence... any sentence. "I am going to the store to buy some apples." Now, say that out loud. Except, replace all the "a sounds with a "uh" sound. Would you have trouble understanding? Probably not. Now, make it worse by changing the "O" sounds to an "ah" sound. Would you have trouble understanding that? I doubt it.

So, just give it a try. You'll pick a little more up every time.

Theadora
06-18-2008, 06:59 PM
I love this! My 4 1/2 yr old has been watching Ni Hao Kai-Lan on Nick Jr and keeps asking what different words are in Chinese. She loves that show. This may help me find more words to teach her. She is already exposed to Spanish through Dora and Diego and I have enough Spanish to help with naming items. She is also learning ASL a little to help her sister with her severe speech delay.

Now to go searching for those flashcards that Caelan mentioned. Off to Amazon.

Any suggestions for preschoolers? I can teach her the DDO terms but Daddy only loaded DDO on my side of our daughter's computer.

Thailand_Dan
06-18-2008, 08:53 PM
Great idea! Great thread.

When I started learning Thai at 28, I was told I was too old to learn, the language was impossible because of the 5 tones, etc, etc. When I finally reached conversation level, some Filipino friends said, "You've finally reached the second group of people. There are three types of people in the world: Multi-lingual, bi-lingual, and Americans." After 5 years of learning, I'm still not fluent, and doubt I'll ever be mistaken for a Thai (ie over the phone), but I can hold my own in a local conversation. (And FYI I am American, so not dissing).

The things that seem to help the most is desire, practice, and immersion. If you don't really want to learn it, you won't. If you don't practice it, you won't remember it. Lastly, even if you learn it, if you don't use it frequently, you will forget it.

Thx for the effort OP.

Jakarr
06-18-2008, 09:31 PM
Very Good Thread, So nice to see Americans be civil about tryin to learn some of another lang, to help communition a little more.


/bookmarked!

RTN
06-18-2008, 10:00 PM
My understanding of this is that America was called "Beautiful Country" early on. And when America helped to defeat Japan, Korea (and possibly also and China) were quite happy with the "Beautiful Country" designation. However, Japan was not. Japan instead started using "Rice Country" because America was seen as a land of wealth and bounty. But they definitely did not want to call it beautiful.

The "beikoku" (lit. Rice Country) for the US in Japanese comes from phonetic usages of Chinese style characters. The old written version for the US was a phonetical A-Me-Ri-Ka (a kanji for each syllable, not all in katakana like today). The "Me" (pronounced 'may') was the character for "rice." It has since been shortened to just the "me" symbol and "koku" (country) so while the literal meaning is "rice country" it comes from a phonetical use of the "me" symbol rather than using the meaning of the character. This is usually only used in written (newspapers, formal documents), not spoken or casual Japanese today with a few exceptions (i.e., don't introduce yourself as coming from "beikoku" as it will sound odd, even if it is technically correct).

Dark_Helmet
06-19-2008, 12:24 AM
as far as i know, the official chinese name for US is mei guo 美国. the old name 米国 is commonly used as 美 in a chinese dialect is pronounced as 米 (bee (note: dialect, not hanyu pinyin). as for the japanese name, that i'm not too sure

I spent a couple of years in Taiwan (only knew it phonetically so had to get it correct from the web):
School was Měi gu&#243; xu&#233; xi&#224;o
Right y&#242;u biān
Left zuǒ biān
Very good tǐng hǎo
Very bad b&#249; hǎo
Thank you zh&#236; xi&#232;
Bye z&#224;i ji&#224;n
I love you wǒ &#224;i nǐ

Beyond that I can only recite commercials from TV:D

HumanJHawkins
06-19-2008, 01:01 AM
The "beikoku" (lit. Rice Country) for the US in Japanese comes from phonetic usages of Chinese style characters. The old written version for the US was a phonetical A-Me-Ri-Ka (a kanji for each syllable, not all in katakana like today). The "Me" (pronounced 'may') was the character for "rice." It has since been shortened to just the "me" symbol and "koku" (country) so while the literal meaning is "rice country" it comes from a phonetical use of the "me" symbol rather than using the meaning of the character. This is usually only used in written (newspapers, formal documents), not spoken or casual Japanese today with a few exceptions (i.e., don't introduce yourself as coming from "beikoku" as it will sound odd, even if it is technically correct).

I am sure you are correct. But I'm also pretty sure that this is the diplomatic explanation for decisions that were as political as when the U.S. congress attempted to rename french fries to "freedom fries". (Which was especially ironic, since the french actually dislike the term "french fry"... The french just call them fried potatores. lol.)

By the way, whenever the U.S. would do something to annoy Korea (such as when a U.S. soldier would get accused of a crime against a Korean woman, and the U.S. would whisk him away so as not to face the Korean justice system). the Korean legislature would always start raising the issue of whether Korea should follow the Japanese lead and stop calling America "beautiful country". So I think politics is always involved.

Teech
06-19-2008, 06:11 AM
inputs =p


I spent a couple of years in Taiwan (only knew it phonetically so had to get it correct from the web):

School was Měi guó xué xi*o
mei guo xue xiao = American School
xue xiao = school

Right yòu biān
you bian = right side

Left zuǒ biān
zuo bian = left side
so, yes. bian = side
for eg. pang bian = beside (physically next to)

Very good tǐng hǎo
ting hao = quite good
hen hao = very good

Very bad bù hǎo
bu hao = not good
bu = not

Thank you zhì xiè
zhi xie is more formal.
most use 'xie xie'

Bye z*i ji*n
zai jian = see you again (lit)

I love you wǒ *i nǐ

Beyond that I can only recite commercials from TV:D

Aranticus
06-19-2008, 06:33 AM
okay... question about double vowels. do you pronoune them separate (like science is two syllables) or do you say one over the other (like pie you pronounce the i but not the e)? if you only pronounce one, which gets pronounced? first? second? changes?

i ask because in your example of wait a while... deng(3) yi xia i was trying to figure out how to say the last word, xia. is it shee-ah... shah... shee-ay... shih-ah... shih-ay... shih...

which brought up the next question... do vowels without any accent pronounce long or short. like yi from deng(3) yi xia. is it an i like in pin (yih) or an i like in pie (yie). because every time i see yi my instinct is to say yee. lol

Edit: you were posting at the same time as me on the same subject... answering my questions... a little freaky

xia would be pronounced more correctly as xee+ya combined into one sound close to something like "shia"

Aranticus
06-19-2008, 06:34 AM
Great idea! Great thread.

When I started learning Thai at 28, I was told I was too old to learn, the language was impossible because of the 5 tones, etc, etc. When I finally reached conversation level, some Filipino friends said, "You've finally reached the second group of people. There are three types of people in the world: Multi-lingual, bi-lingual, and Americans." After 5 years of learning, I'm still not fluent, and doubt I'll ever be mistaken for a Thai (ie over the phone), but I can hold my own in a local conversation. (And FYI I am American, so not dissing).

The things that seem to help the most is desire, practice, and immersion. If you don't really want to learn it, you won't. If you don't practice it, you won't remember it. Lastly, even if you learn it, if you don't use it frequently, you will forget it.

Thx for the effort OP.

thai is 5 tones, i studied 2 terms of vietnamese ~ 7 tones. if you learnt cantonese (chinese dialect) its 9 tones :eek:

Aranticus
06-19-2008, 06:34 AM
Woot!!!!!


Totw! :d

VonBek
06-19-2008, 07:59 AM
Well done!

lakeytw
06-19-2008, 09:08 AM
qing(3) ni(3) xiang(4) ning(3) mu(3) qin(1) wen(4) hao(3) - xiang = towards, ning = your, mu = female, qin = relative, wen = ask, meaning "please say hi to your mother for me"

Lol yep gonna use that one... next plat seller spamming me

qing(3) ni(3) xiang(4) ning(3) mu(3) qin(1) wen(4) hao(3)

Tyrande
06-19-2008, 10:04 AM
thanks for the translations... [...snip...]

i do have a question... i've been noticing some LFMs with what appears to be chinese words in the notation. has any of you who do speak/read the language know if it is and if that is basically that person's way of flagging that run as a chines-speaking run?

zhong guo ren lai = Chinese people come
zhong guo = China, Chinese

I believe those are what you have seen in LFMs. Those Chinese groups are usually low levels and most of my characters are level 16s and I have not joined them to see what it is like.

Aranticus
06-19-2008, 10:10 AM
maybe corduroy could arrange a podcast for me. since i'm the flavor of the week, it should send the ratings up the roof :D

tuskistt
06-19-2008, 02:08 PM
thx for ur effort, but i noticed that some pinyins that u gave us are not correct.
anyway urs r easier to be pronounced.

ps: i can speak Mandarin cuz i was born in China and moved to Canada few yrs ago and i'm also part of those ppl who come from CN DDO.
we really love to play DDO with ppl all over the world however most of us r unable to communicate in English
so if anyone sees "Chinese only" or many weird words on the LFMs, plz dont think of us being racist...


pps: i feel sorry that CN DDO servers have been closed for abt 2 months
for those Chinese players who already paid the monthly fees of June n July n even Aug. and those who r addicted to DDO, here's the best choice other than JP DDO.

again~thx guys we really appreciate it.

Thailand_Dan
06-19-2008, 07:35 PM
thai is 5 tones, i studied 2 terms of vietnamese ~ 7 tones. if you learnt cantonese (chinese dialect) its 9 tones :eek:

Yeah, 5 is rough, 7 would be worse. I thought Cantonese was 11, but I think a few of the tones are rarely used. Working in the region, I could usually pick out what language they were speaking, even if I didn't understand it:

- "Blah blah soy-o" - Korean
- "Shar-Shar-Shar" - Beijing Mandarin
- Sounds like Chinese but more argumentative - Cantonese
- "Blah Blah Bong sah-bong" - Khumer
- "Blah Blah Maass" - Japanese
- Sounds like Spanish but isn't - Tagalog
Thai is the easiest to pick out. In polite conversation, they end their sentences with krap (for men) or kah (for women).

Not trying to be funny or critical, just being factual about what it sounds like to most Western ears.

I know I'm a bit off topic...sorry.

gpk
06-19-2008, 08:02 PM
How do you say "zomg noob you didn't pull the lever!" :D

Aranticus
06-20-2008, 03:14 AM
thx for ur effort, but i noticed that some pinyins that u gave us are not correct.
anyway urs r easier to be pronounced.

ps: i can speak Mandarin cuz i was born in China and moved to Canada few yrs ago and i'm also part of those ppl who come from CN DDO.
we really love to play DDO with ppl all over the world however most of us r unable to communicate in English
so if anyone sees "Chinese only" or many weird words on the LFMs, plz dont think of us being racist...


pps: i feel sorry that CN DDO servers have been closed for abt 2 months
for those Chinese players who already paid the monthly fees of June n July n even Aug. and those who r addicted to DDO, here's the best choice other than JP DDO.

again~thx guys we really appreciate it.

there can be variations from country to country, so if you could, please post the version that is more accepted in yours, this way we can compare and learn from each other

Aranticus
06-20-2008, 03:22 AM
Lesson 4: Greetings (in general)

zao(3) an(1): zao = early, an = safe, meaning "good morning"

wu(3) an(1): wu = noon, meaning "good afternoon"

wan(3) an(1): wan = late, meaning "good night"

ni(3) chi(1) bao(3) le(4) ma(1): chi = eat, bao = full, meaning "have you eaten?"

xin(4) hui(4): "pleased to" (usually, xin hui xin hui is used to mean "pleased to meet you")

hen(3) gao(1) xing(4) ren(4) shi(4) ni(3): hen = very, gao = high, xing = happy, ren shi = know, meaning "pleased to meet you"

ni(3) hia(2) hao(3) ba(4): hai = are, ba = question ending, meaning "are you well?"

Caelan
06-20-2008, 09:11 AM
I love this! My 4 1/2 yr old has been watching Ni Hao Kai-Lan on Nick Jr and keeps asking what different words are in Chinese. She loves that show. This may help me find more words to teach her. She is already exposed to Spanish through Dora and Diego and I have enough Spanish to help with naming items. She is also learning ASL a little to help her sister with her severe speech delay.

Now to go searching for those flashcards that Caelan mentioned. Off to Amazon.

Any suggestions for preschoolers? I can teach her the DDO terms but Daddy only loaded DDO on my side of our daughter's computer.

my son is the same age as your daughter and he too is way into Kai-Lan. he never really got into the dora/diego thing so when he started getting into this we got the cards.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/981246977X

i wrote on them directly phonetic spellings so i can say the words hopefully closely. he was speech delayed (until almost 4 years old) and we did the sign language thing. he still knows more of it than i do but he also makes up his own, which can be amusing. recently he's started combining the two. he'll sign as he is trying to say the word.

Caelan
06-20-2008, 09:16 AM
thx for ur effort, but i noticed that some pinyins that u gave us are not correct.
anyway urs r easier to be pronounced.

ps: i can speak Mandarin cuz i was born in China and moved to Canada few yrs ago and i'm also part of those ppl who come from CN DDO.
we really love to play DDO with ppl all over the world however most of us r unable to communicate in English
so if anyone sees "Chinese only" or many weird words on the LFMs, plz dont think of us being racist...


pps: i feel sorry that CN DDO servers have been closed for abt 2 months
for those Chinese players who already paid the monthly fees of June n July n even Aug. and those who r addicted to DDO, here's the best choice other than JP DDO.

again~thx guys we really appreciate it.

thanks for the feedback! and yes - definitely add in your own suggestions. especially for common phrases you use. when it comes down to it, we're all just DDO addicts and need to stick together!

tasthesose
06-20-2008, 11:26 AM
I have been forced to boot all players that didnt speak or understand English in the past. It was just not worth it, as a Paladin that heals when there is no cleric, to heal people that couldnt understand the group's instructions. I hope this guide will enable me to work these people into my parties!!!

Bender84
06-20-2008, 12:51 PM
The first post on Manderin Chinese is about a MILLION times easier to understand, practical and useful than the ridiculous course i took through OPEN universtiy in Australia.

blarhblarhblarh
06-20-2008, 03:51 PM
Ok, gonna submit one topic also... but for Brazilians:

Hello
Olá

Where are you from?
De onde você é?

I live nearby the amazon jungle
Eu vivo perto da floresta amazônica

Bye
Tchau

And the most important:

Don´t open the f* chest!!!
Não abra a m* do baú!!!

Please follow the fighter
Por favor siga o guerreiro

Wizards can´t tank!!!
Magos não são linha de frente!!!

Monk´s business
Trabalho de monge

RUN RUN RUN!!!
Corra Corra Corra!!!




--------------------------------
by
MightOx


Note: Only have time to answer ingame mail, so I may not come back to see this tread.

Spell
06-20-2008, 10:36 PM
No offense but why not flip the thread and give the chinese an 'english' playing guide.

Judging by the plat farmer spam and their 'you buy get more from us order' linguistic skills on a North American server makes any chinese player somewhat suspect as plat/item farmers.

Aranticus
06-21-2008, 02:02 AM
No offense but why not flip the thread and give the chinese an 'english' playing guide.

Judging by the plat farmer spam and their 'you buy get more from us order' linguistic skills on a North American server makes any chinese player somewhat suspect as plat/item farmers.

marketing dude.... sure i can come up with a guide like that but how are we going to get it to them if they do not come to the forums?

Sokar6000
06-22-2008, 09:42 PM
I grew up in Taiwan, so I speak fluent Mandarin as well, if anyone needs help.

:P

Hvymetal
06-23-2008, 07:05 AM
Sounds like Spanish but isn't - Tagalog


LOL, the wifes Fillipino, that is so true. Her family lives with us I know some Spanish but it is very changed in Tagalog :D

alchilito
06-23-2008, 08:49 AM
So a thread that teaches you how to be polite to plat farmers is thread of the weak ? Thats awesome.

Aranticus
06-23-2008, 08:55 AM
So a thread that teaches you how to be polite to plat farmers is thread of the weak ? Thats awesome.

fact: many farmers are chinese
fact: there are non chinese farming players in ddo
fact: you have a closet mentality :cool:

alchilito
06-23-2008, 09:00 AM
fact: many farmers are chinese
fact: there are non chinese farming players in ddo
fact: you have a closet mentality :cool:

and how does this relate to my post saying your thread is awesome ?

qft

fact: I now know how to politely tell a chinese spammer to go away. ty for your insight.

alchilito
06-23-2008, 09:05 AM
fact: you have a closet mentality :cool:

so its "cool" to tell other forum goers they have a "closet mentality" and go about your business? maybe you should make a thread on how to teach the farmers how to actually communicate in english and maybe those random pugs that you never hear talk and randomly do their own thing in a dungeon might actually contribute something to a party.

Aranticus
06-23-2008, 09:18 AM
so its "cool" to tell other forum goers they have a "closet mentality" and go about your business? maybe you should make a thread on how to teach the farmers how to actually communicate in english and maybe those random pugs that you never hear talk and randomly do their own thing in a dungeon might actually contribute something to a party.

since you cannot get it, then let me spell it out for you. you post reeks of sarcasm. i dunno if its delibrate or not but the way you put is across is what many would do so. if it was not then there could be more but you chose to keep it. a quick scan of your posts showed you participating in recent farmer related threads

ie

agreed, been grouping A LOT lately with players that don't seem to speak english

leveling my bard has been a nightmare so far

this serves to lead to the observation that you could probably be a closet farmer hater

last but not least, i'm also sure you did not read the entire thread, or you wouldnt have missed this


marketing dude.... sure i can come up with a guide like that but how are we going to get it to them if they do not come to the forums?

which is less than 10 posts back

Bekki
06-23-2008, 09:47 AM
so time ago I spotted a cool language
learning program in a computer shopper magazine.

It was a fully imersive, interactive Computer Game!?

The premise behind it was that you were in a foreign country
(Pick the country and language of Choice with exceptions of course)

and were accused of a crime you didn't commit.

You must now Solve the mystery, clear your name;
and keep from be captured or arrested! :eek:

All of this while learning a foreign language!

It looked really awesome and seemed a really
Cool way of learning a new language
and have alot of fun doing it!

But I was not the owner of the Catalog so I returned it.

However; because of lack of forethought on my part

/e Bekki slaps himself in the forehead!

I neglected to write down the name of the program... :eek:

I have since been unable to find the name of the program. :(

Has anyone heard of this program?

I would really love to find it.

Or at least get some kind of a list where I could go to look.

As I said before I am currently trying to lean Tagalog

and I was thinking this would be an
Awesome way to improve my skills.

Can anyone please Help?

Lo_Pan
06-23-2008, 09:54 AM
In my working life, the past 10 years of it have revolved around people whom do not speak English as a first language.. Most times it comes a distant 7th or 8th language. Many people (I work with Malay Chinese!) speak Hakka, Haklo, Indonesian, Cantonese, Mandarin and Malay as 'first' languages. Once you get your head around the tones, and the fact that the inflection on a word is sometimes the difference between mentioning a slang term for reproductive organs and saying 'yes'...It gets easier. As a Caucasian male, it is almost impossible to be NOT laughed at when speaking a small ammount of mandarin... I usually stick to 'Please', 'thank you' and 'goodbye'. Sometimes 'sorry' is quite useful too....but....It never covers it all.

Caelan
06-23-2008, 12:27 PM
So a thread that teaches you how to be polite to plat farmers is thread of the weak ? Thats awesome.


if you read the thread you would know this thread has nothing to do with communicating with farmers or anything to do with plat farmers at all. it is entirely how to communicate with Chinese speaking players that have come over to our server when the Asia server was shut down. you know, those random pugs you mentioned a couple posts later that do their own thing... yeah, it's cuz they don't have a clue what you are saying. this will change that.

Aranticus
06-24-2008, 01:41 AM
Lesson 5: Salutations

xie(4) xie(4): xie = thanks, meaning "thank you"

ni(3) gan(4) de(4) hen(3) hao(3): dan = did, meaning "you did very well"

zai(4) jian(4): zai = again, jian = see, meaning "see you again"

gong(1) xi(3) ni(3): gong xi = congratulations, meaning "grats to you"

xia(4) chi(4) zai(4) yi(4) qi(2) you(3) xi(4): xia = down, chi = attempt, yi qi = again, you xi = game, meaning "we'll party again the next time we meet"

Hvymetal
06-24-2008, 05:26 AM
Bekki, I'd teach ya some Tagalog but most of what I know is things you don't say in polite company :D

Teech
06-24-2008, 06:03 AM
Lesson 5: Salutations

xie(4) xie(4): xie = thanks, meaning "thank you"

ni(3) gan(4) de(4) hen(3) hao(3): dan = did, meaning "you did very well"

zai(4) jian(4): zai = again, jian = see, meaning "see you again"

gong(1) xi(3) ni(3): gong xi = congratulations, meaning "grats to you"

xia(4) chi(4) zai(4) yi(4) qi(2) you(3) xi(4): xia = down, chi = attempt, yi qi = again, you xi = game, meaning "we'll party again the next time we meet"

Comment: you xi = 'game' is correct. However, I believe the 'game' in this case is actually a noun, and might not be suitable in this sentence.
Suggest: xia chi zai yi qi wan(2). wan2 = play

Caelan
06-24-2008, 07:50 AM
this came up in conversation last night. someone was asking about the chinese influx and mentioned he had inadvertently joined a group of monks that happen to also be chinese. he didn't know it and when he heard them all speaking chinese had no idea it was "real". basically he thought they were english-speaking pretending to speak chinese because of the monk thing.... made up chinese. so he threw in some of his own and got questioning responses. to their credit, they did not boot him. and he did apologize, but we all instantly saw the need for knowing how to say you are sorry.

Sorry
I didn't mean to offend
Please ignore my stupidity lol


Things like that. :o

Teech
06-24-2008, 08:02 AM
suggestions



Sorry = bao qian = apologies
I didn't mean to offend = bu shi gu yi de = that wasn't on purpose
Please ignore my stupidity = qing yuan liang (wo) = please forgive (me)

Aranticus
06-24-2008, 08:17 AM
Comment: you xi = 'game' is correct. However, I believe the 'game' in this case is actually a noun, and might not be suitable in this sentence.
Suggest: xia chi zai yi qi wan(2). wan2 = play

technically in proper chinese yours is correct, but for gamers, they refer it to you xi instead as wan can mean different games. whereas you xi is more specific, in this case refers to computer games

Teech
06-24-2008, 08:35 AM
I just wanted to say that its great to see the China players on Sarlona opening up more.
When they first came, many of their LFMs were restricted to "zhong guo ren" or China Nationals only.
Not too surprising I guess since many of them probably don't speak english.

Today, I just saw 2 LFMs.
One read: "We speak chinese but all are welcome"
(In english no less. Just goes to show that they're making the same effort that so many are in this thread)

The other read: "kan de dong de lai" = Come in if you understand
Which at least shows their willingness to group up so long as parties are able to understand each other.

I'd like to /salute the Sarlonians who made the effort to make them feel welcome, and to show them that DDO transcends all cultures and languages =)

It's also nice to think that this thread might have played some part in them opening up.
'Grats Aranticus.

Bekki
06-24-2008, 09:24 AM
Bekki, I'd teach ya some Tagalog but most of what I know is things you don't say in polite company :D

LOL
My "friend" tried to teach me a number of those phrases...:D

I have several books on the subject and some language tapes.

What I was trying to find is the above mentioned program.

I WISH I could remember the Name! :mad:

It seemed really cool, but I didn't hink of it at the time! :mad:

If anyone Happens to have seen it an knows the name That would be awesome.

Sokar6000
06-24-2008, 09:27 AM
Another appropriate response for 'sorry' would be bu(4) hao(3) yi(4) si(5), translates literally as 'not good meaning' but is used in a situation where the speaker is put in a situation which negatively affects them, such as interrupting a conversation, or starting a conversation with a stranger, or asking a courtesy of said person...

If that made any sense. Chinese social customs are involved!

Lo_Pan
06-24-2008, 10:14 AM
or: Dwe Bu Xie

also: Ba Xie Soh Wei (* If I am correct, and the spelling bothers me here, but it SHOULD mean: I don't understand)

Aranticus
06-24-2008, 09:28 PM
or: Dwe Bu Xie

also: Ba Xie Soh Wei (* If I am correct, and the spelling bothers me here, but it SHOULD mean: I don't understand)

i dun understand = wo(3) bu(4) liao(3) jie(3)

Sokar6000
06-25-2008, 12:44 PM
i dun understand = wo(3) bu(4) liao(3) jie(3)

Absoutely correct, although in my experience, wo(3) bu(4) dong(3) or ting(1) bu(4) dong(3) are more common, but maybe that's a Taiwan thing.

shiffd
06-30-2008, 10:07 PM
I think you can update your first first post with all of your additional lesson supplements, so that we dont have to dig through the conversations for them. Or maybe get a seperate wiki-stiki thread or whatever something like that the just lists the raw information. When I get home I might try to print some stuff out.
I, like many, think it would be cool to try out some simple Chinese (or any new language for me) in a party while gaming.

ATTITUDE- Many Chinese people play this game just as a game and are not farmers. Some of you need to be mature and realize this, so we are talking about using Chinese to talk with other players too, not just platfarmers. I had to get that out of my system.

My own little contribution here- Japanese. I dont think there are any Japanese people really on any of the US servers and if they are its probably because they speak English. So practically you dont really need Japanese, but just for entertainment purposes.

Japanese is pronounced much like spanish, with WHOLE VOWELS. all vowels have same sound always
a='aw', e='eh', i=ee(as in pee), o='oh', u=oo(as in poo)

I love you
ai****eiruyo

will you marry me?
kekkon ***** kudasai

Lets fight (in the battle arena)
kakate koi!

Are you drinking?
nondeiru?

Lets kill some stuff
nanika korosouka?

here take this
douzo

thank you
arigatou (mr. robato)

Dont open the chest yet
mada takarabakou akenaide

Where are you?
(players name)san, docodesuka?

stay in the back, because you are weak
anta yowaikara, ushiro ni orinasai

stop
tomate (I know almost sounds like tomato)

wait
matte

go
ikke

come
koi

come here
kochi kite

You look good in that armor/robe/outfit/hat
niau ne.

shiffd
06-30-2008, 10:13 PM
there is a spelling of 4 letters which is a bad word in english. Starting with s and 4 letters, ending in T. This sound pattern is a common and important verb ending in Japanese, but cant be typed in these forums, so my attempt to teach two frazes has been foiled. Ok so when s comes befoe i, pronounce the s as an SH ok?
marry me
kekkonsite kudasai.
i love you
aisiteiru yo
Im drunk (new fraze didnt have in last list)
yoparateiruyo

And we need a guide for the australians and Kiwis, not just the Canadians. Ok, mate?

Pyromaniac
06-30-2008, 10:26 PM
I remember playing in groups with 5 plat farmers back in the early days of DDO, and nope I had no clue what they were saying. Everyone just did their thing and we got through the quest easily.

So not speaking whatever language shouldn't be a barrier to beating most quests (though probably would be an issue in new raids until they're no longer new).

Aranticus
06-30-2008, 11:01 PM
I remember playing in groups with 5 plat farmers back in the early days of DDO, and nope I had no clue what they were saying. Everyone just did their thing and we got through the quest easily.

So not speaking whatever language shouldn't be a barrier to beating most quests (though probably would be an issue in new raids until they're no longer new).

part of the reason i posted this was a farmer was in a shroud group i was in. he could not understand simple english and would not respond to the leader's tell or voice chat. in part 3, i was teaching some players some simple mandarin. when in part4, this farmer died and i recieved a pm from him asking if i'm a zhongguo ren (china nationality). a simple conversation took place until the part i touched on farming and that i was also discussing a new plat selling pm to which this person recalled and dropped group (i was commenting abt how i see more legit players than farmers). that confirmed our suspicion that the said person is a farmer (many guilds in khyber are looking out on these and we trade info regularly, once identified and confirmed, they will be denied entry to our runs so as to slow/fustrate their farming efforts)

back to topic, yes some of the farmers (esp pre server merge) are masters of farming but now, with shroud, vision and hound being the "in" raids, they are lacking in quality to be part of the groups (more so when they keep nuking when crowd control is needed)

threeandfive
06-30-2008, 11:46 PM
I live in Japan, so I've probably run with more Chinese recently than most of you have. I play quite often (I'm a student), so I guess I meet up with Chinese players about once or twice a day.

So, firstly, I want to know how to say, in Chinese:

- "Do you understand me?" or "Do you understand English?"

- "Please listen to me." or "Please listen to us." ---- I have found that some Chinese who can speak a little English pretty do much their own thing (hopefully it's just because they think that because they aren't fluent, they can't play as a group, which isn't true.)

- "If you don't listen to us, we will kick you from the group." ---- Sometimes communication is necessary for survival. I hate to be the heavy, but if you can't understand me, (sometimes) I don't want you around. Nothing personal.

Secondly, I want to know how many of you, in the heat of battle, are going to have time or inclination to write this all out? :) I've seen plenty of English-speaking players who have trouble communicating in English. hehehe :)

Thirdly, I noticed someone posted some words in Japanese. Good job, but what you posted is pretty rude in most cases. Even when playing online games, most Japanese are usually pretty formal. Also, Western humor doesn't translate well to Japanese. I wouldn't go around asking players to marry you. I mean, even in English, if a stranger said that to you, what would your reaction be?

>Where are you?
>(players name)san, docodesuka?

Actually in online gaming, a lot of Japanese don't use "san" because they're not using thier real name. You can use it, but you don't have to.

Anyway, you might want to try: "XX, ima doko ni imasu ka?" or "XX, ima doko ni iru no?" for where are you now?
Also, "doco" is misspelled; "doko" is correct. "XX, ima, doko? " is okay, too.

The shortest one is probably the best (it's quickest) but it's also the least polite. No one's gonna get angry though.

>stay in the back, because you are weak
>anta yowaikara, ushiro ni orinasai

There are several problems with this.

"Anta" is really, really rude. If the Japanese you're playing with thinks it's intentional and not a spelling mistake, he may drop the group at that point. Use "Anata" or even better, use the name of the person. "Yowaikara" should be "Yowai dakara". (Even if this is put together correctly, it's still a little strange, though. People will understand but it might take them a second.)

But in any case, just for diplomatic reasons, try saying: "issen wo majienagara, ki wo tsukete!" which means while you're fighting, be careful. I guess it's a bit long to type while you are fighting, so try it before or after. Telling someone to stay in the back because they are weak is not going to make them happy. (My sentence is also a little awkward but it gets the job done.)

>stop
>tomate (I know almost sounds like tomato)

Stop is "tomete". Maybe you're thinking of the verb "tomaru"?

>go
>ikke

"Ikke" is pretty rude. :) "Itte" is better.

>come
>koi

"Kite" is much better. "Koi" is a little rude.
"koko e oide" is good for "come this way".

However, having written all this, most Japanese understand at least basic English, so if you keep it simple, they'll understand. :)

Aranticus
07-01-2008, 12:42 AM
I live in Japan, so I've probably run with more Chinese recently than most of you have. I play quite often (I'm a student), so I guess I meet up with Chinese players about once or twice a day.

So, firstly, I want to know how to say, in Chinese:

- "Do you understand me?" "ni ting de dong ma?" or "Do you understand English?" "ni ting de dong ying yu ma?"

- "Please listen to me." "qing ni ting wo de zhi shi" zhi shi is added to denote instructions or "Please listen to us." "qing ni ting wo men de zhi shi" ---- I have found that some Chinese who can speak a little English pretty do much their own thing (hopefully it's just because they think that because they aren't fluent, they can't play as a group, which isn't true.)

- "If you don't listen to us, we will kick you from the group." "ru guo ni bu ting, wo jiu ti ni chu dui wu" ---- Sometimes communication is necessary for survival. I hate to be the heavy, but if you can't understand me, (sometimes) I don't want you around. Nothing personal.

Secondly, I want to know how many of you, in the heat of battle, are going to have time or inclination to write this all out? :) I've seen plenty of English-speaking players who have trouble communicating in English. hehehe :)

i have done von5-6 using text only, did shroud, dq and reaver as well. with titan, its hard. btw the time you type fire, it would have regain footing. with vision and hound...... its almost impossible as people are way too focused with the combat and not the text box

HumanJHawkins
07-01-2008, 02:12 AM
IJapanese is pronounced much like spanish, with WHOLE VOWELS. all vowels have same sound always
a='aw', e='eh', i=ee(as in pee), o='oh', u=oo(as in poo)

I love you
ai****eiruyo

will you marry me?
kekkon ***** kudasai



Lol. I love how it let you jokingly put in actual references to bodily functions, but it censored your polite japanese.

Turbine should formally apologise with: "****surea shima****a! Bokutachi wa shupai ****a!" :D

Hvymetal
07-01-2008, 04:12 AM
So anyone have a Canadian to English guide put up yet? :D ( Disclaimer: Just kidding, lots of my guildies and some of my co-workers are Canadian)

Magehound
07-01-2008, 11:45 AM
I want to thank you for the time and effort you put into this thread. I am of the type of the three types of people in requards to speaking, multi-lingual, bi-lingual, or american. Sorry, I'm stuck in the american catagory.:D I ran ww with somebody from china the other day, I tried to help this guy because he was trying, which is more than I can say than alot of pugs I have done.:rolleyes: So I think people need to just be patient and give everybody a chance.

Aranticus
07-02-2008, 12:38 AM
I want to thank you for the time and effort you put into this thread. I am of the type of the three types of people in requards to speaking, multi-lingual, bi-lingual, or american. Sorry, I'm stuck in the american catagory.:D I ran ww with somebody from china the other day, I tried to help this guy because he was trying, which is more than I can say than alot of pugs I have done.:rolleyes: So I think people need to just be patient and give everybody a chance.

nope its as much your effort as it is anyone who posted here. 7 habits of a highly effective person. be proactive. i like to think ddo players are effective..... then again there are so many noobs :D

Caelan
07-02-2008, 03:41 PM
So anyone have a Canadian to English guide put up yet? :D ( Disclaimer: Just kidding, lots of my guildies and some of my co-workers are Canadian)


canadians and australians can be communicated with in the same manner... give 'em a beer and everyone's happy from there on out. :D

Aranticus
07-08-2008, 05:42 AM
did a verbal lesson today while waiting for shroud. everyone was so amused and others started chipping in. we had a mandarin, german and japanese lesson! :D

jmonty
07-08-2008, 11:14 AM
i for one welcome our new chinese overlords.

:p

liamfrancais
07-21-2008, 04:44 PM
Well I did my very first xorian cipher run with my cleric last night and as far as I know my almost all non-english speaking run but I don't know maybe not my first. It was fun Started out almost silent but as the quest got rolling and the others starting speaking I was like holy cow I have No idea what they are saying but what the heck all I have to do is watch red bars. One member knew English and would type if someone needed a restore or something. I am at a loss as to what -.- means. Over all awesome group of players and I had fun.

Tyrande
07-21-2008, 04:59 PM
Well I did my very first xorian cipher run with my cleric last night and as far as I know my almost all non-english speaking run but I don't know maybe not my first. It was fun Started out almost silent but as the quest got rolling and the others starting speaking I was like holy cow I have NOidea what they are saying but what the heck all I have to do is watch red bars. One member knew English and would type if someone needed a restore or something. I am at a lose as to what -.- means. Over all awesome group of players and I had fun.

-.- is not a word. It is actually a picture with two eyes - - and a nose . Hopefully they meant that they're happy that you healed them.

Quanefel
07-21-2008, 05:20 PM
-.- is not a word. It is actually a picture with two eyes - - and a nose . Hopefully they meant that they're happy that you healed them.

Its more than that. -.- means glaring at someone. My personal favorite though, the eye twitch >.o

liamfrancais
07-21-2008, 05:26 PM
Oh well they were either happy I healed them or glaring at me because I did not do it quick enough either way I can live with that until we get subtitles.

Caelan
07-23-2008, 10:44 AM
still loving this thread... my guide sits by my screen for quick reference. haven't used it too much but it has helped. found one missing, really important phrase... hello.

so uhm... how do you say hello (like when you first join up)? and that got me thinking of the next round of needed phrases:

hello
goodbye
on my way (omw)
be right back (brb)
away from keyboard (afk)
got to log off
thanks for the group

also, i notice that most of the text that is written does not include the 1 - 4 pronunciation numbering key (in the chat windows). is it assumed from context? i like having it should i ever get the courage to say any of it, but when typing don't want to confuse who i am typing to.

shiffd
08-06-2008, 09:15 PM
I totally agree with most of your comments. I live a fully integrated Japanese life in southern Kyushu. Yes Japanese are very formal in formal situations WITH OUTSIDERS (to their specific group, based on present role) and/or SUPERIORS. I've never played online games with Tokyo people, and they may very well speak politely when playing video games on teh internet, I doubt it though. Most likely they do not use Keigo when gaming.

tomateb (tomaru) and tomete (tomeru) are related. One is transative, one is intransitive, to stop, and to stop X. If you told someone 'tomete' you are telling them to stop something, not themself. Its a little difficult, be essentially if you are moving then you stop (tomaru) as a description of your action, but if you are driving something, or taking an action then you would be asked to tomaru, (yameru most contexts), or to (~wo) tomeru, in reference to what you are doing to the car, not what you are doing. believe me though as at the moment imperative tomate is correct for most contexts. In some cases you could use either. tomare is the most direct way to tell someone to stop, but as you already mentioned, politeness is important. Note you can't say tome, which woudl be the direct imperitive of tomeru. kyarakuta wo tomete would be a big vague, as it could be a reference to the running of the machine or program, so they would just get confused. Tomare, means you stop there, stop your movement, not the movement of the character. Not sure on how the Japanese personalize, if they 3rd person the character or 1st person in this context. Perhaps if they are telilng you how to drive the character then they would use tomete. Have you played DDO with Japanese people in Japanese? I know in sports the correct word for your own body is tomate.

Realistically if someone needs the words in Japanese, they are way better off just speaking English with those they might game with, further I doubt any Japnese who wasnt specifically looking to game in English would be on an American server. I think we agree there. Im sure Japanese would use the Japaense servers if they wanted to speak Japanese. THose frazes were just for fun. But probably a bit rude to just throw in as a clip. Peopel who want to throw in a bit just to impress/show cultural interest to a Japanese DDO friend should stick with more polite frazes. I recommend for everyone to follow your advice.

I've never played sports, games, drank etc. with my Japanese freinds using Keigo, we always use impolite language, and men especially use words like anta and omae exclusively when speaking with people they are endeared to. Japanese men would love to hear frazes like I love you and marry me from Western women as a joke, and . Simarly good for men to say to women, although they will take it more seriously, be careful what you wish for!! You are right though, those would not be funny man to man or woman to woman the way they might be for westerners. That humor wouldnt gloss over too well in most contexts. 'nondeiru?' is a great question to ask someone when communicating on the net. Many Japanese love to drink just like Americans. And as I said above I doubt they would talk about it in Keigo, Keigo is for work, shopping etc. when somebody is playing specific role. Sometimes Japanese will use formal langauge with foreigners all the time, even when drinking or playing sports. This is a sign that the foreigner is either A- not being accepted as a full member of the circle or B held in a superior/special status. B is most common for freindly Japanese who feel a duty (that they enjoy) to be hospitable to foreigners, therefor you are 'okyakusan' and will always be spoken to politely, and distantly, even after developing a close relationship, this is also often due to perception that you can't learn a more diverse usage of the language. In the okyakusan position, using base or vulgar language is an indication of contempt, and not recommended. There is also teh 'sensei' status, where you are essentially superior, an authority figure and even if you are out at 2am drinking ina shady bar they will talk to you formally. BUT in the sensei (superior/high position) it is most appropriate for you to speak to them informally. You would refer to them as Anta or Omae in a loving way. and stuff. Japanese a very good at dividing themselves into tachiba and I guarantee that in a 6 man party or 12 man raid atleast 1 person would be saying things like 'koi' and 'ikke' and 'omee matta shindaro?!'. and maybe 1 or 2 in a subordinate state speaking politely. Women unfortunately are never allowed full usage of the language and are always using Keigo or modified slang, without most of the common vulgarities men are allowed to use. Women can say Anta to men in their family or close circle, but not Omae to anyone for example. (both words meaning 'you' for those following this who dont speak Japanese).

I am of a camp that thinks the Japanese should teach their informal language openly to foreigners. 99&#37; of all Japanese language teaching materials do not cover informal language and about 80% of what Japanese people actually say on a day to day basis. I think that should change personally.



I live in Japan, so I've probably run with more Chinese recently than most of you have. I play quite often (I'm a student), so I guess I meet up with Chinese players about once or twice a day.

So, firstly, I want to know how to say, in Chinese:

- "Do you understand me?" or "Do you understand English?"

- "Please listen to me." or "Please listen to us." ---- I have found that some Chinese who can speak a little English pretty do much their own thing (hopefully it's just because they think that because they aren't fluent, they can't play as a group, which isn't true.)

- "If you don't listen to us, we will kick you from the group." ---- Sometimes communication is necessary for survival. I hate to be the heavy, but if you can't understand me, (sometimes) I don't want you around. Nothing personal.

Secondly, I want to know how many of you, in the heat of battle, are going to have time or inclination to write this all out? :) I've seen plenty of English-speaking players who have trouble communicating in English. hehehe :)

Thirdly, I noticed someone posted some words in Japanese. Good job, but what you posted is pretty rude in most cases. Even when playing online games, most Japanese are usually pretty formal. Also, Western humor doesn't translate well to Japanese. I wouldn't go around asking players to marry you. I mean, even in English, if a stranger said that to you, what would your reaction be?

>Where are you?
>(players name)san, docodesuka?

Actually in online gaming, a lot of Japanese don't use "san" because they're not using thier real name. You can use it, but you don't have to.

Anyway, you might want to try: "XX, ima doko ni imasu ka?" or "XX, ima doko ni iru no?" for where are you now?
Also, "doco" is misspelled; "doko" is correct. "XX, ima, doko? " is okay, too.

The shortest one is probably the best (it's quickest) but it's also the least polite. No one's gonna get angry though.

>stay in the back, because you are weak
>anta yowaikara, ushiro ni orinasai

There are several problems with this.

"Anta" is really, really rude. If the Japanese you're playing with thinks it's intentional and not a spelling mistake, he may drop the group at that point. Use "Anata" or even better, use the name of the person. "Yowaikara" should be "Yowai dakara". (Even if this is put together correctly, it's still a little strange, though. People will understand but it might take them a second.)

But in any case, just for diplomatic reasons, try saying: "issen wo majienagara, ki wo tsukete!" which means while you're fighting, be careful. I guess it's a bit long to type while you are fighting, so try it before or after. Telling someone to stay in the back because they are weak is not going to make them happy. (My sentence is also a little awkward but it gets the job done.)

>stop
>tomate (I know almost sounds like tomato)

Stop is "tomete". Maybe you're thinking of the verb "tomaru"?

>go
>ikke

"Ikke" is pretty rude. :) "Itte" is better.

>come
>koi

"Kite" is much better. "Koi" is a little rude.
"koko e oide" is good for "come this way".

However, having written all this, most Japanese understand at least basic English, so if you keep it simple, they'll understand. :)

shiffd
08-06-2008, 09:44 PM
Just to clarify some of your clarifications.

just to clarify it is NOT necessary in Japanese to insert DA or DESU between adjectives and prepositions.

You need to spend some time with Japanese people speaking normally, not formally. 99% of Japanese people will follow adjectives with kara. look for these phrases.
atsui kara (because its hot)
kawaii kara (because you are cute)
yasui kara (bacause its cheap)
oishii kara (because its delicious)

You wont here people say things like yowai dakara. Trust me. anta yowaikara is very natural, and you will hear sentences like this in daily conversation all the time. kyou atsui kara ......you might even here today if you listen closely. by the official grammar rules this may or may not be bad grammar in japan, nonetheless its how people talk. Ask some Japaense friends if they say thingsl ike omoikara etc. And they will admit they very very much do.

Replacing ikke with itte doesnt work. Ikke is an imperative. Itte is NOT, it is a nominalized verb, only. To make itte a imperative you need another word, or context. people say things like 'nonde' and it is heard as an imperative because the hearer expects 'kudasai' on the end. even if Kudasai isnt added. but you could talk about what you did on your date last night you could say, baru itte, nonde, tabete, hotelu ita. in this context itte and nonde are not imperatives, but actions (although the verbal matter is missing, assumed tte. not all imperatives are impolite in Japanese. If people are waiting for 'go' then Ikke is the appropriate term, even in the most polite context. Find a context where Japanese people are queued for a specific action, like a party waiting, poised to attack. If a verb is used to signal the action, the direct imperative is always used. Its also the most likely to get a response. People would only use ~nasai, or ~tekudasai if the desired action was not required immediately. imminent needs are almost always requested with the direct imperative. If the whole party was waiting to charge etc. ikke would be used. if one person was waiting to attack, ikke woudl be a perfectly acceptable, non-rude signal.

faldordadink
09-29-2008, 07:32 PM
was looking for a place to post and came across this thread, awesome job btw.

the other day I joined a titan raid, I don't know it very well (basically have to be led around), boy was I surprised when it turned out to be an all chinese group, just happens that one of the group is also in my guild so he could type english to me, I have a whole new respect for the chinese players pugging with us, I feel for them now. :o

there is one thing that maybe some of you can help me with, I have found out that chinese people (and I hope I am not stereotyping) do not like the Dalai Lama, to the point of being named "country enemy" when I asked why. Now obviously I know the western history but I always thought it was just a political thing between them. When I asked a little more I was told that we don't know the same history that they know. Can anyone shed some light on this for me?

p.s. when I created my toon Dalailama it was originally a monk (made her 1st day monk was available) ofcourse with the hundreds of monks running around I rerolled as a cleric and named her Dalailama Monk Healer :)

p.p.s not trying to hijack or derail thread but I figured those of you interested in this thread may be able to "open my eyes"

Aranticus
09-29-2008, 08:07 PM
there is one thing that maybe some of you can help me with, I have found out that chinese people (and I hope I am not stereotyping) do not like the Dalai Lama, to the point of being named "country enemy" when I asked why. Now obviously I know the western history but I always thought it was just a political thing between them. When I asked a little more I was told that we don't know the same history that they know. Can anyone shed some light on this for me?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibet

the people of tibet has never fully accepted the communist party as their sovereign and til today continue to struggle. sturggles causes deaths damage. this in turns forms people's opinions

ps dalai lama is not the name of a person. its the title awarded to the spiritual leader

faldordadink
09-30-2008, 03:25 PM
thank you for the link, very intersting read, I still don't see why the hatred is there, if anything it seems like the Tibetans are the ones that should hold a grudge. I would really like to learn the chinese perspective of Tibet.

And yes I know the Dalai Lama is a title :)

Aranticus
09-30-2008, 06:21 PM
thank you for the link, very intersting read, I still don't see why the hatred is there, if anything it seems like the Tibetans are the ones that should hold a grudge. I would really like to learn the chinese perspective of Tibet.

And yes I know the Dalai Lama is a title :)

do you think the people who were affected as collateral damage get the full picture? do the rest of the people get the full picture with a state controlled media?

note that this is the same country which took 1 year to release the problem with milk and related products. a week from the day which it was "officially" known, 500 turned into 60000 babies with health problems

Aranticus
01-28-2009, 12:38 AM
gong xi = congrats

Fa cai = prosper

Gong xi fa cai = have a properous new year

Tolero
03-02-2009, 04:42 PM
Gong xi :D

Zzevel
06-01-2009, 05:15 PM
How about a quick reference guide of what the might be doing (note I don't speak Chinese so I am winging it, these are NOT correct)

Gu Wi Mu Gau = Hound
Wag Cu Fu Bi = Reaver
Po We Gu Dag = Necropolis

.... ect...

I know the quest, I just don't know what they're doing to join in...

Aranticus
06-20-2009, 07:31 PM
How about a quick reference guide of what the might be doing (note I don't speak Chinese so I am winging it, these are NOT correct)

Gu Wi Mu Gau = Hound
Wag Cu Fu Bi = Reaver
Po We Gu Dag = Necropolis

.... ect...

I know the quest, I just don't know what they're doing to join in...

this is kinda hard as i dun run with non english speaking chinese but i guess i could solicit help from our chinese pals who put up non english lfms

ps i run consistently with 2-3 chinese players and by far their standard of english is much better than what i've seen written in this forums by their peers. our mode of comms is usually in english. in chinese, those are more daily life related than game related

adm5893
06-30-2009, 08:29 AM
I came across this thread by accident. Great thread. Back when I was in college I volunteered for a program that matched a native English speaker with a foreign student to help them with their conversational skills.

In fact this past weekend I joined a majority of non native English players in a shroud run. They spoke and understood many of my questions and conveyed instructions in English quite well.

So Thank you for starting this thread.

adm5893
08-30-2009, 01:18 AM
bump for Black Mantis and Oriental Style

Ladywolf
09-26-2009, 06:34 PM
great thread!

MysteryNotes
01-19-2010, 09:52 AM
Whoa, i had no idea you were Singaporean as well.

Hello there!
Nice guide, by the way.

You know, i never thought that i'd find other singaporean players here as well.

None of my buddies have ever heard of this game!

Aranticus
01-19-2010, 09:57 AM
Whoa, i had no idea you were Singaporean as well.

Hello there!
Nice guide, by the way.

You know, i never thought that i'd find other singaporean players here as well.

None of my buddies have ever heard of this game!

we are on khyber

MysteryNotes
01-19-2010, 10:01 AM
we are on khyber

Gah! You've got to be kidding me!

A friend of mine mentioned he was playing this game, so i decided to give it a shot.
I started on Khyber.
Then a very good friend of mine also started playing on Thelanis, and persuaded me to go there.

So i've been playing on Thelanis for now.

All i can say is..GAH! lol.

Where are the majority of singaporeans playing anyway ? Khyber?

Aranticus
01-19-2010, 08:13 PM
Gah! You've got to be kidding me!

A friend of mine mentioned he was playing this game, so i decided to give it a shot.
I started on Khyber.
Then a very good friend of mine also started playing on Thelanis, and persuaded me to go there.

So i've been playing on Thelanis for now.

All i can say is..GAH! lol.

Where are the majority of singaporeans playing anyway ? Khyber?

so far, the sgers are spread out mostly within 4/5 guilds on khyber. in my guild alone, prolly 6-10 of us