PDA

View Full Version : DDO Takes Away Our WDA! I say No MORE!



B_Notorious
06-10-2008, 08:59 AM
Thats it! If the turbine staff is going to continue to take things away from us then I suggest that we the players do the same.

NO MORE FREE PRESS!
NO MORE FREE Player Made (Fill in the blank)!

Join me in my boycott of not doing anymore 3rd party work for the turbine staff.

For years now WE the players have been benefitting Turbine and maintaining interest in the game for others with our videos, maps, wikis, spreadsheets, etc. Basicly doing ALOT on our end while they continually remove and take away from us. If it weren't for these third party extensions then, I'm gonna go out on a limb here, alot of ddo players would have already left out of their frustration with lack of in game information. WE have been doing A TON of turbines work FOR them and now they expect us to have "Faith" in a company with terrible QA, a nearly non-existant PR department, and a growing lack of any sympathy for any of our concerns.

I SAY NO MORE!
Let Them Eat Cake!

Impaqt
06-10-2008, 09:03 AM
And what exactly are you going to stop Doing?

:rolleyes:

B_Notorious
06-10-2008, 09:08 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4a5DHjjNgw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rQs7j_LmcY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCoZLbdzPKE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7PPUkc3H1Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtUEApri2Rg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqSnDFJn06k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6xwaGVs0uI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJE94VdWVtI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHQMTW_3ukY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dW9jGd8kq3I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnDxrmKREzs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnDxrmKREzs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTAu6XqobKA

I've done that. As well as being in the process of making a full length DDO film. What have you done?

Gennerik
06-10-2008, 09:12 AM
Then we're just punishing players even more. I thought the main idea of putting together things like the wikis and videos and compendiums, etc, was to give players more information, not to advertise for Turbine. Stopping those is just going to hurt the playerbase even more. Now that we won't be getting regular information from Turbine, who do we have to turn to but the players?

Schadrim
06-10-2008, 09:14 AM
Thats it! If the turbine staff is going to continue to take things away from us then I suggest that we the players do the same.

I SAY NO MORE!
Let Them Eat Cake!

Don't you get it? Put two and two together. Go look at the job listings on turbines site and assemble the information. DDO is about to get a big kick in the pants forward, and hype sells games. Don't you want more people playing? The more people can get hyped up, the more articles appear on blogs like joystiq, the more people get exposed, the more people play.

Blizzard barely updates the games, Lotro and DDO have very regular content updates, and the WDA keeps it all self contained within this site. Let them improve their business model to make more money. I think we all know more money is going to mean more content.

B_Notorious
06-10-2008, 09:22 AM
Don't you get it? Put two and two together. Go look at the job listings on turbines site and assemble the information. DDO is about to get a big kick in the pants forward, and hype sells games.

I don't dissagree Hype does sell games. Hype for NEW products. At this point I don't consider DDO to be a new product. How many "New" players do you think that LESS information is going to attract?

"HYPE" also isn't the thing that KEEPS people playing and I think that gambling on a hypothetical influx of new unexperienced players, for a month at the cost of losing an already knowledgeable player base that has been playing for years, is a very dangerous game.

Elsbet
06-10-2008, 09:25 AM
I don't dissagree Hype does sell games. Hype for NEW products. At this point I don't consider DDO to be a new product.


iPhone. Not new. Huge hype.

B_Notorious
06-10-2008, 09:32 AM
Your comparing Hardware and Software. You don't think thats Apples and Oranges?

I'd LOVE to know how many new subscriptions Mod 7 has brought in with this new form of information dispersal.
I'd also LOVE to know how many of those don't re-subscribe when they experience all of the bugginess that they've been "hyped" into.

Arbaal9111
06-10-2008, 09:39 AM
Your comparing Hardware and Software. You don't think thats Apples and Oranges?

I'd LOVE to know how many new subscriptions Mod 7 has brought in with this new form of information dispersal.
I'd also LOVE to know how many of those don't re-subscribe when they experience all of the bugginess that they've been "hyped" into.

I resubscribed.

Elsbet
06-10-2008, 09:40 AM
News is news. The way the media approaches it is the same whether it is apples, oranges or zippers.

Ron
06-10-2008, 09:41 AM
Well, I for one have no intention of stopping work on the character planner. Although loss of the WDA is going to make it extremely difficult now (it was one of my primary sources of information in keeping it up to date). It may make it virtually impossible, in fact. We'll just have to see what happens.

Brianius
06-10-2008, 09:43 AM
Ive meet several new players on ghallanda and 5 old friends that disappeared and came back because of monk and i'm sure there are more than just those 12 and lol so is apple iphone the apple or orange in your comparison.

Elsbet
06-10-2008, 09:44 AM
Well, I for one have no intention of stopping work on the character planner. Although loss of the WDA is going to make it extremely difficult now (it was one of my primary sources of information in keeping it up to date). It may make it virtually impossible, in fact. We'll just have to see what happens.

Maybe you can sweet talk Kate Paiz into some sort of deal where you can still get some heads up--with the threat of turning all your characters into lavender and chartreuse nightmares if you spill the beans early.

B_Notorious
06-10-2008, 09:44 AM
News is news.

We were discussing "Hype" not "News" again Apples and Oranges.

Elsbet
06-10-2008, 09:47 AM
We were discussing "Hype" not "News" again Apples and Oranges.

Same thing. Do you really think I cared if it was news or hype when I picked the stories for front page, above the fold? **** no. All that mattered to my employers was did we get it first and will this sell more papers, thus increasing ad revenue. Translation to online: Did we get it first and will it generate more hits, thus increasing ad revenue.

Brianius
06-10-2008, 09:49 AM
News is Hype these days .... I'll miss the wda but it wasn't something I lived by

Memnir
06-10-2008, 09:51 AM
I think that taking away the WDAs is hands-down one of the biggest missteps Turbine has made over the course of DDO's history. And they've made some whoppers. I am wholeheartedly against the move, and no amount of Turbine spin doctoring nor forum-cheerleader rah-rah-rahing will make me think that it's a good thing for the players. It's simply ******** to close the only meaningful door of communication we had with the Devs.

That being said - I just upped my subscription. And, I think that for us as players to shut down our own avenues of communication due to the Devs being asinine will only compound the problem. I've stuck with this game more for the people playing it than for the people making it. The players I game and group with everyday still deserve my respect, even if the Devs have lost it nearly completely.

I'll keep helping out my fellow players since the Devs have decided not to.

B_Notorious
06-10-2008, 09:52 AM
Same thing. Do you really think I cared if it was news or hype when I picked the stories for front page

If you were any good as an editor then Yes, yes you did. If not the meat of the story then you at least "hyped" the story with a big BOLD PRINT catchy headline. But I digress

Ron
06-10-2008, 09:56 AM
Maybe you can sweet talk Kate Paiz into some sort of deal where you can still get some heads up--with the threat of turning all your characters into lavender and chartreuse nightmares if you spill the beans early.

Hehe, yeah. Seems unlikely to happen though :)

I don't want to stop updating the planner, and have no intention of doing so. On the other hand, I have no idea of how I'm going to get the info I need to keep it up to date now. The WDA contained, in one place, most all the changes that were coming to the game, along with numbers. It was quite convienient for my purposes. Now that information is going to be spread all over the internets, and almost certainly in forms that won't do me any good (I doubt they'll have the AP cost and progression requiirements of Halfling Guile V in a press release, hehe).

The future's not looking too good for the planner, I'm afraid :o

Hendrik
06-10-2008, 10:00 AM
Well, I for one have no intention of stopping work on the character planner. Although loss of the WDA is going to make it extremely difficult now (it was one of my primary sources of information in keeping it up to date). It may make it virtually impossible, in fact. We'll just have to see what happens.

I dunno Ron.

You, and a few other that stand out, do a GREAT service to the Community. If I was you, I might contact a few people at Turbine and see what - if anything- they can do for you and what you do for all of us. Might be worth a few email and PM's. Who knows, maybe they would see the benefit, like I do, to keep you up to date on changes coming down the pipe and help keep your planner being the great tool that it has become.

While others see disparity, I see opportunity.

;)

Arbaal9111
06-10-2008, 10:19 AM
Hehe, yeah. Seems unlikely to happen though :)

I don't want to stop updating the planner, and have no intention of doing so. On the other hand, I have no idea of how I'm going to get the info I need to keep it up to date now. The WDA contained, in one place, most all the changes that were coming to the game, along with numbers. It was quite convienient for my purposes. Now that information is going to be spread all over the internets, and almost certainly in forms that won't do me any good (I doubt they'll have the AP cost and progression requiirements of Halfling Guile V in a press release, hehe).

The future's not looking too good for the planner, I'm afraid :o

Changes will still be on rsia before live.

B_Notorious
06-10-2008, 10:25 AM
Wiill They? Are you sure of that? They've already take the raids away from us. And in the case of new classes like O I dunno, Monks (can you say druids), you had to grind through to level cap to get an understanding of how any of it ACTUALLY worked due to the lack of information that we had. EVEN WITH THE WDA!

Ron
06-10-2008, 10:27 AM
Changes will still be on rsia before live.

Heh, does me no good whatsoever :) Do you know how hard it is to pick out what's changed in a patch by actually going into the game and trying to figure it out? It's pretty much impossible.

It might still be okay. If the First Look Release Notes remain in the same format, I can use those. I'll just be more rushed at the release times, since I won't be able to update the planner over time as the WDAs appear, and most likely I won't be able to release versions of the planner in conjunction with the game patches the way I've tried to in the past. Like I said, we'll just have to see what happens.

Brianius
06-10-2008, 10:27 AM
Wiill They? Are you sure of that? They've already take the raids away from us.


HUH?

Elsbet
06-10-2008, 11:18 AM
If you were any good as an editor then Yes, yes you did. If not the meat of the story then you at least "hyped" the story with a big BOLD PRINT catchy headline. But I digress

A good editor in part does what it takes to sell newspapers. Selling newspapers=advertising revenue=job security. No one is going to read the meat on the inside if they don't buy the paper. The front page is the pretty wrapping paper. Shocking headlines, the latest and greatest, compelling color photos (or cute kids if you don't have compelling), attractive and easily readable page design, no ads. It's all flash and show. The substance is in the middle.

On its merits, the iPhone doesn't deserve A section coverage, let alone front page, but it bumped "real" news below the fold on many papers.

I'm going to miss the WDAs because I like spoilers, but from a PR/marketing point of view, it makes good business sense.

Missing_Minds
06-10-2008, 11:23 AM
Well, I for one have no intention of stopping work on the character planner. Although loss of the WDA is going to make it extremely difficult now (it was one of my primary sources of information in keeping it up to date). It may make it virtually impossible, in fact. We'll just have to see what happens.

Actually.. I wonder if you could sign a non disclousure agreement to keep it up todate for releases.

Elsbet
06-10-2008, 11:26 AM
Actually.. I wonder if you could sign a non disclousure agreement to keep it up todate for releases.

That would definitely work. Turbine seems willing to work with players who put forth the effort to make the game better, i.e. the DDOcast, so it might not be all that unlikely that they'd give you a little extra time with the numbers as long as you signed the appropriate legal docs.

ArkoHighStar
06-10-2008, 11:27 AM
Heh, does me no good whatsoever :) Do you know how hard it is to pick out what's changed in a patch by actually going into the game and trying to figure it out? It's pretty much impossible.

It might still be okay. If the First Look Release Notes remain in the same format, I can use those. I'll just be more rushed at the release times, since I won't be able to update the planner over time as the WDAs appear, and most likely I won't be able to release versions of the planner in conjunction with the game patches the way I've tried to in the past. Like I said, we'll just have to see what happens.

Actually they did say they would be producing the first look release notes when items do get to Risia, so it all depends when it hits Risia, as to how much use you will get out of it

ChildrenofBodom
06-10-2008, 11:27 AM
Where did they say no more WDA..? Haven't been paying attention lately.

Missing_Minds
06-10-2008, 11:27 AM
Wiill They? Are you sure of that? They've already take the raids away from us. And in the case of new classes like O I dunno, Monks (can you say druids), you had to grind through to level cap to get an understanding of how any of it ACTUALLY worked due to the lack of information that we had. EVEN WITH THE WDA!

*LAUGHS* You mean like how we used to be when we first started the game... having that same grind to work our way up only to figure things out that changed from PnP?
Or how about mid way through when they changed how enhancments work. Remember the old "Choose what you want at this rank" and you get 4 choices per level instead of the buy with AP system we have now.

If they have to take away raids in order to fix them, let them. I'd rather all quests be fixed afterall.

Warmane
06-10-2008, 11:35 AM
Pardon for a noobish question here.... what is WDA?

Schadrim
06-10-2008, 11:36 AM
I don't dissagree Hype does sell games. Hype for NEW products. At this point I don't consider DDO to be a new product. How many "New" players do you think that LESS information is going to attract?

"HYPE" also isn't the thing that KEEPS people playing and I think that gambling on a hypothetical influx of new unexperienced players, for a month at the cost of losing an already knowledgeable player base that has been playing for years, is a very dangerous game.

You seem to be well versed in turbines sub turnover rates. Do you think your 15 dollars matters more than mine? All I hear in this thread is whining. I think the rational is 100% crystal clear and makes great sense, and your short sighted view DEMANDING information that is meaningless until it's released is just wacky.

The only person in this thread that could even possibly be mad is the character builder guy.

Brianius
06-10-2008, 11:39 AM
Pardon for a noobish question here.... what is WDA?

Its the weekly dev activities- basically they tell us what they have been up to and whats coming ahead of time

Dirac
06-10-2008, 11:43 AM
I am disappointed the WDA's are going away, but don't really have the expertise to understand if their new approach is better or worse for the game. The immediate consequence is that it's worse for me.

However, Ron, you are a special case. I visit the forums a lot for help: build ideas, maps, strategies, trades, etc., all of which combined does not match the contribution made by your character planner. The turbine staff may not always make the best decisions, but they cannot be so colossally stupid that they won't make sure your planner can keep up with their changes in a meaningful way, even if it takes special arrangements.

B_Notorious
06-10-2008, 11:59 AM
Do you think your 15 dollars matters more than mine?

Not at all.


I think the rational is 100% crystal clear and makes great sense

It is? Then maybe you can explain it to me and how it makes "great" sense.


your short sighted view DEMANDING information that is meaningless until it's released is just wacky.

I don't recall DEMANDING anything. I did make a suggestion. As far as the information being meaningless, are you being serious? they have consistently made changes that make rerolling, and respecing toons necessary for later level play and knowing what changes are coming can save someone MONTHS of grinding a character that after a new mod/patch has gone live will become unplayable as originally planned. Also it allows us to see what bugs they are currently working on fixing.

Hvymetal
06-10-2008, 01:14 PM
Wile I am dissapointed, and have misgivings about what this means for us, the majority of the player base that has stuck with DDO through the whole last 2+ years, thick & thin (maybe more thin than thick heh). I am not about to boycot 3rd party websites nor stop making suggestions that I believe are good for the game as the whole.

Josh
06-10-2008, 02:37 PM
iPhone. Not new. Huge hype.

Huge P.O.S. too.