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Riggs
06-10-2008, 03:33 AM
So, as nice as the idea is to have new raid armor that has several enhancements on it, it really still doesnt change the fact that there is only one, just one raid or named armor that actually increases your ac over random armor.

With the right build (not maxed out rogue/ranger dex build) the Kundarak Delving suit will raise your AC by 1 point. Every single other raid armor in the game either doesnt add, or in fact lowers your ac when you wear it.

Desecreated Leathers - +4 armor only. So the nimbleness is useless at it will still lower the ac of any dex build with a max dex of 8 rather than 6, and makes soemone worse off than just an armor 5-7 item and having a 32-36 dex.

Breastplate of Vol is not bad, +5 mithril bp, but only some builds can use it over fp or a mithril chain shirt, and the +4 dex doesnt stack with any other items, so if someone cares about dex and ac..they will be using a +6 item anyway.

Stonemeld Plate is a nice item for a cleric say, but its +4 armor, and the 5 dr is ok, but not useul to a melee unless they are not really worried about ac.

Centurian Armor Adds 1 to max dex, for a grand total of 2. Not as good as mithril fp, and the reflex save bonus might be ...ok, but again doesnt stack with say - the +4 resistance cloak your wearing anyway.

Marilith Chain and Demon Scale Both ****. +5 scale mail? Really? no max dex bonus for being scales or anything, so it is a lower ac than anything else you could wear as a random +5 armor. 20 point lightning resist is not much use at high levels, and if you need poison....you get poison.

Abbot end turn in rewards are still only at the same ac bonus as random armor, but have some nifty extras. However running the abbot raid was a no go since week 2, and running the tombs on any characters is like having teeth drilled with no novacaine...so pass.

The new mod 7 raid armor has soem nice bonuses, like +2 to hit say, or crippling. But they have +4 protection, which is really sad. Again anyone who is actually worried about ac will have +5 protection. I am not taking an item off to lower my ac by one, but if it was +5 on the armor THAT would be useful. Not better than random armor....just useful because it frees a slot.

So...since many raid weapons ADD to the damage someone can do over random weapons....is it really too much to ask that riad and named armor at least be 1 point of AC better than random drops?

Is that asking too much?

Inspire
06-10-2008, 03:38 AM
Not True, My Ac Build Walks Around With A 62 Ac:

Wearing The BP Of Vol For Armor And A Dex Item.
And Sorrel As A +4 Protection And Resistance Item

My Other Item Slots Are Spoken For.

Borror0
06-10-2008, 04:08 AM
Is it really too much to ask that riad and named armor at least be 1 point of AC better than random drops?

Ok, I think everyone knows I got an intimitank and thus love AC? Ok, presentation done.

Yes it's too much to ask. I'm awfuly thankful that the developers have not added anything to AC in this Module. Chattering ring is one of the guilty of AC's fall. It'll be the same for Green Steel items unless they add other sources of Insight bonus to AC from named items. The addition of AC loot is bad for the game, period. The more AC loot there is, the more AC loot you have to wear and the less other stuff loot you can wear, like GFL or Greater Resistance.

That said, it'd be nice of the armor had +5 Deflection, I agree.

The only real loss is the tower Shield which isn't Mithril. Would have made it much better.

If you want to help AC tanks, don't add AC loot. Add loot that allow them to have their regular AC stuff and other bonus. Could I have Bracer of +2 Dodge AC of Greater False Life? Ok, I'll settle for Greater fire Resistance, or even +6 Consitution.:D

Inspire
06-10-2008, 04:48 AM
Desecreated Leathers - +4 armor only. So the nimbleness is useless at it will still lower the ac of any dex build with a max dex of 8 rather than 6, and makes soemone worse off than just an armor 5-7 item and having a 32-36 dex.

First Off, This Is Not Raid Loot. That Said, Yes This IMO Is Terrible Armor, Might Aswell Wear A Robe With Something On It And +6 Armor Bracers Which Are Quite Easy To Come By.


Breastplate of Vol is not bad, +5 mithril bp, but only some builds can use it over fp or a mithril chain shirt, and the +4 dex doesnt stack with any other items, so if someone cares about dex and ac..they will be using a +6 item anyway.

Again, Not Raid Loot. The +4 Dex Is Nice Becauce It Frees Up An Item Slot, My Batman Build Wears is And Still Reaches A 62 Unbuffed Ac.


Stonemeld Plate is a nice item for a cleric say, but its +4 armor, and the 5 dr is ok, but not useul to a melee unless they are not really worried about ac.

Your First Quoted Raid Armor! Yes, This Is Junk IMO, FullPlate Of Giants Does The Same Thing, Non Raid Loot. Cool Graphic? Sure.


Centurian Armor Adds 1 to max dex, for a grand total of 2. Not as good as mithril fp, and the reflex save bonus might be ...ok, but again doesnt stack with say - the +4 resistance cloak your wearing anyway.

For Those Who Have Spent 2 Years Looking For +5 Mith FP, This Is A Good Option.
But The +5 Mithral FP/Heavy Fort/Prot +4 "Junk" Raid Loot Your Sad About Is About 1000x Better, Which Also Frees Up 2 Item Slots.


Marilith Chain and Demon Scale Both ****. +5 scale mail? Really? no max dex bonus for being scales or anything, so it is a lower ac than anything else you could wear as a random +5 armor. 20 point lightning resist is not much use at high levels, and if you need poison....you get poison.

Well First, My Bard Used To Wear The Chain For Lightning And Proof Because Bards Cannot Cast Those Spells.
Second The Demon Scale Gives You Seeker +10! For A Barbarian Who Doesnt Care About Ac And Dosent Have A Bloodstone, This Is Huge.


Abbot end turn in rewards are still only at the same ac bonus as random armor, but have some nifty extras. However running the abbot raid was a no go since week 2, and running the tombs on any characters is like having teeth drilled with no novacaine...so pass.

Since They Made Changes To This Raid, Servers Have Been Beating It. Nightshield For 14Mins Is Very Nice, Esp. For Those Mobs Who Tend To Spam MM/FM, SR22 Is Nice If You Dont Run With Clerics Often.

The EC Docent Will Be The WF Monk's Best Friend.


The new mod 7 raid armor has soem nice bonuses, like +2 to hit say, or crippling. But they have +4 protection, which is really sad. Again anyone who is actually worried about ac will have +5 protection. I am not taking an item off to lower my ac by one, but if it was +5 on the armor THAT would be useful.

Again My Ac Build Walks Around With +4 Protection And +4 Dex Item, Its All In The Build.

Im Not Saying I Would Refuse +1 More To Ac, But Honestly The + Outweigh The -


Not better than random armor....just useful because it frees a slot.

EXACTLY! Thats Why People Want It. Put Some Thing More Useful In Their Other Item Slot.


So...since many raid weapons ADD to the damage someone can do over random weapons....is it really too much to ask that riad and named armor at least be 1 point of AC better than random drops?

What Other Raid Weapons Besides The SoS?

Crafted Weapons Will Out DPS The SoS Anyday.


Is that asking too much?

Yes.

Riggs
06-11-2008, 11:15 AM
Wow did no one read the entire first sentance?

*So, as nice as the idea is to have new raid armor that has several enhancements on it, it really still doesnt change the fact that there is only one, just one raid or named armor that actually increases your ac over random armor.
*

B) point out the sentance or words that said anything about ac tanks or intimitanks or whatever.

The point is that raid weapons add damage over what a random weapon will, but raid armor does not add ac over random armor.

c) I called the demon queen armor junk, and the new raid armor, 'not bad, useful but doesnt add to armor'. If your going to quote something try to at least read what is being quoted first.

The KDS is the only raid, or named armor, that is better than random armor because it is 1 point better than a mithril chain shirt, and 2 points better than a normal mithril chainmail. Hence the point that it is the ONLY raid, or named armor that is better than random - and is also why you see half the dex builds using it - because 1 point matters.

If your 'ac tank' uses +4 protection and a 4 dex item....well its certainly a choice to go with a lower ac than is possible. Not sure what the point of a 'ac build' that doesnt even try to max out its ac is, but whatever.

I realize I ask too much by expecting people to read something before replying. But really.

I didnt say a single thing about intimitanks. I said raid armor - whether its for rogues, clerics, fighters, ranger or whatever - doesnt ADD TO AC.

Comparing crafted weapons to the Sos as some kind of argument against my point....I would spell it out but really whats the point.

People getting up in arms defending bad loot is like watching someone run into a wall and say "Well it hurts less than running into a spike"

Angelus_dead
06-11-2008, 11:17 AM
The point is that raid weapons add damage over what a random weapon will, but raid armor does not add ac over random armor.
That's an invalid point. Damage and AC are not directly comprable.

The correspondences are Damage vs DR and attack vs AC. Notice that raid weapons are all basically +5 and don't really help your attack roll.

Borror0
06-11-2008, 11:18 AM
I said raid armor - whether its for rogues, clerics, fighters, ranger or whatever - doesnt ADD TO AC.

It's called a wise decision.

Riggs
06-11-2008, 11:24 AM
Actually there is one other item that adds to ac kinda - Madstone shield. For clerics the tower shield proficiency is nice, and since most clerics are low dex, the max dex penalty of a tower is not an issue, so in effect it does add to ac, and makes better blocking.

But not if your a melee.

*oh yeah, and the point also isnt 'what other items can be added to increase ac', which again is nice, but not armor.