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View Full Version : Mod 8 needs to be BUG LOVE mod



Yaga_Nub
06-09-2008, 09:31 AM
So we've had ranger love, rogue love (sort of), bard love, paladin love (depending on who you talk to), and monk love.

Can we have a Mod that is 100% devoted to BUG LOVE.

I'll forgo quests, raids, enhancements, etc. for there to be a Mod where the devs go back and clean up the top 100 bugs in the game.

Please. Please. Pretty please with sugar on top?

Turial
06-09-2008, 09:36 AM
Or you know spend 1 down time a month to apply a bug fix patch. Have each patch take care of a few bugs and by mod 8 the game would be relatively bug free.

Yaga_Nub
06-09-2008, 09:40 AM
Or you know spend 1 down time a month to apply a bug fix patch. Have each patch take care of a few bugs and by mod 8 the game would be relatively bug free.

I'd have to disagree. Some of the bugs I'm sure wouldn't take much to code a fix but it's the testing that's the issue. I want them to get their testing house in order and start doing some real testing before releasing code. Plus some of the most major and enduring bugs are probably months worth of coding and testing not just a few days. They can't be coding for a Mod that has additional content AND trying to fix hundreds of bugs at the same time.

Sometimes you have to take a few steps back to start moving forward again and I think DDO is at that point.

Impaqt
06-09-2008, 09:41 AM
No thanks. Bug Love needs to be .1 for ALL modules. Too many bugs arent "Important" and get left to ride forever in this game.

A Full Module without any real content would definatly mean the end of this game.

Borror0
06-09-2008, 09:41 AM
Or you know spend 1 down time a month to apply a bug fix patch. Have each patch take care of a few bugs and by mod 8 the game would be relatively bug free.

What he said. Btw Yaga, I don't really think that the game could afford another module empty in quests.

And, there was no paladin love!

Borror0
06-09-2008, 09:42 AM
Sometimes you have to take a few steps back to start moving forward again and I think DDO is at that point.

I agree with the saying, but in a metagaming way... but DDO cannot do that right now.

Too little content in the last few modules.

dragonoffrost
06-09-2008, 09:45 AM
What he said. Btw Yaga, I don't really think that the game could afford another module empty in quests.

And, there was no paladin love!

I know a few paladins on Khyber will disagree with this sentiment and I'm not even talking the Divine Sacrifice and resurrection abilities. Exaulted Smite, the new holy sword spell changes and regenerating smites helped a few paladins. It wasn't huge amounts of love and they could have given more but it was some love that was needed.

I got asked when joining a shroud run ... "you do use holy sword?" and answer of yes got me an invite.

Borror0
06-09-2008, 09:50 AM
It wasn't huge amounts of love and they could have given more but it was some love that was needed.

Most of what they did was misplaced effort. I'll call it "paladin attention", rather than love.

Holy Sword (about time) and the AP reduction are the only to real changes, but they are clearly not adressing the issue. They're just fixing other stuff that would have needed attention. The rest is really misplaced effort. Exalted Smite and the regen is too weak of an implementation.

Yaga_Nub
06-09-2008, 09:53 AM
No thanks. Bug Love needs to be .1 for ALL modules. Too many bugs arent "Important" and get left to ride forever in this game.

A Full Module without any real content would definatly mean the end of this game.


What he said. Btw Yaga, I don't really think that the game could afford another module empty in quests.

And, there was no paladin love!

I'm the first one to agree with those statements. I LOVE DDO and I find it harder and harder each day to log in and play. Whether the devs want to agree or not, we have now had two Mods with an extremely minute amount of content.

I blame it solely on the devs part for creating a game that we really enjoy playing. :)

But we are going to have realize that for the betterment of the game something along the lines of what I'm proposing has to be done. Let me pick on my favorite bug right now - 0% ASF on FP. How did this happen? What changes to the code did they do to cause something like this to happen? It might be a very simple fix or it might take months to find out why this happened. My guess is that their development platform needs to be refreshed because they have to much "test code" in the system.

But you get my point that there are so many bugs in the system that they are going to have to do something about them at some point and they have limited resources so something is going to have to give.

dragonoffrost
06-09-2008, 09:54 AM
As for Mod 8 being a bug fix mod I can't see them doing a full bug fix mod. It would chase people. There has to be new content with every mod. Even if it is a New Raid and some quests. I mean people are griping that the only new high level content is two raids. Some people don't like raids so they see it as there was no new high level content.

Bunker
06-09-2008, 09:55 AM
So we've had ranger love, rogue love (sort of), bard love, paladin love (depending on who you talk to), and monk love.

Can we have a Mod that is 100% devoted to BUG LOVE.

I'll forgo quests, raids, enhancements, etc. for there to be a Mod where the devs go back and clean up the top 100 bugs in the game.

Please. Please. Pretty please with sugar on top?

I agree partly. Bugs need attention. And some of the basic game play needs retooling (/cough cough, POTIONS), But waiting for "Mod 8". Noway mo-jom-ba. If we wait for a new Mod, we are talking a while. Game fixes should be repaired bi-weekly/monthy/ect.......

Turial
06-09-2008, 09:57 AM
I'm the first one to agree with those statements. I LOVE DDO and I find it harder and harder each day to log in and play. Whether the devs want to agree or not, we have now had two Mods with an extremely minute amount of content.

I blame it solely on the devs part for creating a game that we really enjoy playing. :)

But we are going to have realize that for the betterment of the game something along the lines of what I'm proposing has to be done. Let me pick on my favorite bug right now - 0% ASF on FP. How did this happen? What changes to the code did they do to cause something like this to happen? It might be a very simple fix or it might take months to find out why this happened. My guess is that their development platform needs to be refreshed because they have to much "test code" in the system.

But you get my point that there are so many bugs in the system that they are going to have to do something about them at some point and they have limited resources so something is going to have to give.My favorite bug would have to be the item duplication bugs that keep cropping up. You can't tell me there are enough people running scales on Gallanda every day for 20 stacks of 25 dragon scales to always be posted with the same price.

Impaqt
06-09-2008, 10:00 AM
Oh, DOnt worry, the ASF in FP bug will be fixed quickly(Comparatively) because that bug Benefits the players. (Or more accuratly, Doesnt Hurt them)

The Blarrier Bug, the Potion Bug/Change... Stuff that like will Linger forever because.... Well because I guess..... I cant think of a good reason why stuff liek this gets left on the table.... Blade barrier has been broken since Mod 5...... Now its Extra Broken.

In_Like_Flynn
06-09-2008, 10:03 AM
Point One releases would be best.

ahpook
06-09-2008, 10:04 AM
The people that do content (build quests) are likely different than the people that do the coding (build the system). So your willingness to forgo quests would be pointless as that would mean people like django and keeper would have little to do.

So lets ask for Mod 8 to have no new game features - only new quests and bug fixes. That should be doable if they wanted.

That would mean no new levels, no new classes, no new races, no new enhancements, no new spells, no new crafting, no new bags (i.e. spell components). no new loot effects, ...

Next mod will need a bunch of level 16+ quests or there will be a lot of people looking for something else to do (if they even make it to mod 8 given the content of mod 6 and 7).

dragnmoon
06-09-2008, 10:12 AM
Sometimes you have to take a few steps back to start moving forward again and I think DDO is at that point.

DDO can not afford anymore steps back at this time.... 2 Mods in a row low on quests is too many already.

I give credit to Q for being able to post on his mobile, I am in Turkey at a coffee shop on my Ipod Touch... This is not easy...;):D:p

Tresha_D'Artet
06-09-2008, 10:13 AM
i completely disagree with the idea of going a whole new mod with no new content of any kind. maybe i wasnt playing back then, (just after level cap went to 12) or maybe its because i didnt have a bard at the time, that bard love was shown, but ummmm...the new enhancements- spellingsinger, warchanter, i dont really consider "bard love". after all, bards were given no increase in spell point increases when that came around, before anyone decides to say that with the right enhancements, blah blah blah bards probly wont ever run outta sp, which for the most part i do agree with, i always run extend activated with my bard and about the only time ive ever run out of spell points is in reaver while buffing, but hey....whats a spellingsinging, buffing/some cc/back up healing bard to do eh? ANYWHO.....

PLEASE! no new mod w/out new content!!:D

Yaga_Nub
06-09-2008, 10:17 AM
The people that do content (build quests) are likely different than the people that do the coding (build the system). So your willingness to forgo quests would be pointless as that would mean people like django and keeper would have little to do.

I forgot about Keeper and Django (sorry guys) but Keeper is going to be out on maternity leave at some point soon so I hope she's got someone up to speed on her job.

The rest of your post I fully agree with.

Hambo
06-09-2008, 10:38 AM
I'm the first one to agree with those statements. I LOVE DDO and I find it harder and harder each day to log in and play. Whether the devs want to agree or not, we have now had two Mods with an extremely minute amount of content.

I blame it solely on the devs part for creating a game that we really enjoy playing. :)

But we are going to have realize that for the betterment of the game something along the lines of what I'm proposing has to be done. Let me pick on my favorite bug right now - 0% ASF on FP. How did this happen? What changes to the code did they do to cause something like this to happen? It might be a very simple fix or it might take months to find out why this happened. My guess is that their development platform needs to be refreshed because they have to much "test code" in the system.

But you get my point that there are so many bugs in the system that they are going to have to do something about them at some point and they have limited resources so something is going to have to give.

Listen to this weeks DDOcast... Silthe was interviewed and gave a lot of insight into the developement cycle, with particular details of the ASF issue on armor having been a consequence of fixing the ASF scroll failure issue at the last minute, as well as the "escort the Warder" quest in lowbie harbor having to be closed because AI issues in the higher level raids were fixed.

One point that Silthe mentioned is that you can fix a seemingly simple issue in one area and have major consequences in a completely unrelated area. Anyone who has ever written software in machine code is aware that sometimes just adding a single character to a description can be enough to cause an unrelated section of code to straddle a page boundry, or force a decision branch to be just out of range, or any of a number of other consequences that can cause massive issues.

Yaga_Nub
06-09-2008, 10:45 AM
Listen to this weeks DDOcast... Silthe was interviewed and gave a lot of insight into the developement cycle, with particular details of the ASF issue on armor having been a consequence of fixing the ASF scroll failure issue at the last minute, as well as the "escort the Warder" quest in lowbie harbor having to be closed because AI issues in the higher level raids were fixed.

One point that Silthe mentioned is that you can fix a seemingly simple issue in one area and have major consequences in a completely unrelated area. Anyone who has ever written software in machine code is aware that sometimes just adding a single character to a description can be enough to cause an unrelated section of code to straddle a page boundry, or force a decision branch to be just out of range, or any of a number of other consequences that can cause massive issues.

Exactly. As someone that has done coding before I absolutely understand the issue.

But it's also a good reason why they need some time to really "FIX" a bug. No one knows what effects will break/change when new code is introduced. I would have thought that the ASF for armor and the ASF for scrolls would be different code but as we can see someone coded all of ASF together instead of modularizing it by the different things that can affect ASF. Also you can see how fixing something at the last minute has unintended consequences.

I'm really joking that a whole mod be focused on bug fixes but I'm trying to point out that it has gotten to the point that SOMETHING very focused and concentrated needs to happen regarding all the bugs in the game.

bobbryan2
06-09-2008, 10:50 AM
Mod 7 WAS bug mode.

We got 2 new raids (each one room big) with pretty blase raid loot that didn't require a whole lot of original thinking beyond... enhancement consolidation.

What we did get was a ton of bug fixes.

Borror0
06-09-2008, 10:51 AM
What we did get was a ton of bug fixes.

And a few new bugs.. Grrr for potions.

bobbryan2
06-09-2008, 10:56 AM
And a few new bugs.. Grrr for potions.

Yeah, but I have faith most of those will be addressed in the hotfix and/or 7.1.

The fact is that you guys got your Bug Fix mod, and didn't even realize it.

Borror0
06-09-2008, 01:26 PM
Yeah, but I have faith most of those will be addressed in the hotfix and/or 7.1.

I know, I just felt like ranting a little. ;)

Largo_Kyber
06-09-2008, 02:16 PM
In the last two updates we've got 2 new explorer areas, 3 new raids, and a total of 5 quests.

I am currently on timer for all the raids and I've run the 5 Vale quests ad naseum. Persoanlly, I'd like to see high level content in terms of quests with variety. Short and medium duration quests shouldn't end at lvl 8. You already have enough explorer zones and I would think these are much more time consuming to create. Add some additional flavor to these areas by dropping in some "Giant Cave" type ruins. Please fix the bugs but don't overlook the lack of lvl 16 quest content in the next Mod.

DelScorcho
06-09-2008, 02:18 PM
What he said. Btw Yaga, I don't really think that the game could afford another module empty in quests.

And, there was no paladin love!

/signed. This was a structural mod, so most of the focus was on monk development. I think it was most analogous to mod 2. It was hard not to blow through the new content in a few hours for someone not rolling up a lowbie. Over the next few months, it means we'll be farming the same old mission over and over, with 2 short 12 man quests. The next mod should have quests upon quests upon quests. Think desert + gianthold scope.

Borror0
06-09-2008, 02:21 PM
Short and medium duration quests shouldn't end at lvl 8. [...] Please fix the bugs but don't overlook the lack of lvl 16 quest content in the next Mod.

QFT, we got 5 level 16 quests and a level 15 pre-raid

Mhykke
06-09-2008, 02:44 PM
I'm still kind of leaning towards a mod where the devs don't worry about new crafting, classes, etc. etc., and just add like 15 cool high lvl quests and a raid like tempest (go in any time, explore, no puzzles, just beat down stuff, random named rare loot drops).

DelScorcho
06-09-2008, 02:54 PM
One major problem with this mod's lack of content is there is really no incentive to explore the subterranian area (aside from the fact the "eye tyrant counsel sounds really cool). The raids were found relatively quickly, and most high level characters are capped. The loot that falls out of those chests certainly hasn't been better than shroud normal. So really, there isn't any motivation to do anything in the subterranian except for the hound and devil.

Borror0
06-09-2008, 05:15 PM
I'm still kind of leaning towards a mod where the devs don't worry about new crafting, classes, etc. etc., and just add like 15 cool high lvl quests and a raid like tempest (go in any time, explore, no puzzles, just beat down stuff, random named rare loot drops).

Me too, and that's surprising from me (although I couldn't care less of crafting actually).

crschoen
06-09-2008, 06:20 PM
For the love of goodness...this thing sucks and we've been complaining for 6 months now. How tough is it to add Meridia?

Omega2K
06-09-2008, 10:21 PM
Heh, when I first read this Thread name I conjured up images from Diablo II: decending down into the foul reaches of the earth to destroy nasty bugs and critters... I thought that might actually be pretty cool especially with all the cool bug nasties in the D&D Monster Compendium. Module 7 even added a few new Bug mobs...

Then I realized what you were actually asking for... And I'll tell you that, yes, we do need bug fixes for many things in DDO, but you cannot market a full Module around bug fixes. It is ludicrous and just won't sell. The Devs need to fix bugs as a regular activity, but it needs to be behind the scenes. How would you feel as a prospective player to know that DDO has so many bugs they are devoting an entire Module to fix them? Not very encouraging. I would wait it out for a few months or half a year and then think about signing up.

Module 8 should be about a few things... Perhaps the release of our missing half-races: half-elves, half-orcs, etc.. Or maybe, since these things take so long to develop, Turbine should start working on Level-ups 17 and 18... That would probably be released just in time for the holidays (Christmas that is...). And I certainly hope we do NOT have another Module of Undead... Please give us some more living things to kill. Bug squishing would be OK for me!

wemery73
06-09-2008, 10:26 PM
and alot of warforged love :D

repair skill = to heal skill :)

more raid loot for warforged :p

Riddikulus
06-09-2008, 10:31 PM
Yeah, but I have faith most of those will be addressed in the hotfix and/or 7.1.

The fact is that you guys got your Bug Fix mod, and didn't even realize it.
I don't know... the "known issues" list is longer than it ever has been (over 20 items on it), and we're finding a lot of other weird stuff each day. I think they broke more things than they fixed.

Borror0
06-09-2008, 10:46 PM
I think they broke more things than they fixed.

That's what happens when you try to fix bugs... new ones come out.

Riddikulus
06-09-2008, 10:57 PM
That's what happens when you try to fix bugs... new ones come out.
Heh... I found the WoW bug report forum here: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/board.html?forumId=10023

There are over 30 pages (x50 posts each) = 1500 posted in the past month.

Grond
06-10-2008, 06:35 AM
In the last two updates we've got 2 new explorer areas, 3 new raids, and a total of 5 quests.



8 quests? 5 vale quests, 3 new three barrel quests in mod 7?