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baddax
06-06-2008, 10:32 PM
I was reading on another forum about Stunning Blow vs. Stunning fist and was thinking of this for a better option for DC's In general. 10+ (class level + Stat/2). ie lvl 16 monk with 28 wisdom would be (16+28=44/2=22)+10 =32. a respectable dc for lvl 16 monk with good wisdom.Now a level 1 monk with 18 wisdom would be (1+18=19/2=9)+10=19. Thats a bit much so maybe the DC could be scaled like the Attack bonus is ie levels 1-10= +0. 10-15 = +5 15-20=+10 or something to that affect. So a levle 1 monk with an 18 wisdom would be +0 (+1+18=19/2=9) so a dc of 9 at level 1 and comperable to stunning fist but at high levels definitly much better!

Lithic
06-06-2008, 10:45 PM
The DC is 10+wisdom bonus+half monk level IIRC. You never add the bulk stat number to anything, that would make any check related to that stat sickeningly powerfull.

baddax
06-06-2008, 10:54 PM
The DC is 10+wisdom bonus+half monk level IIRC. You never add the bulk stat number to anything, that would make any check related to that stat sickeningly powerfull.

I did not take stunning fist with my monk because i was under the impression it was a worthless feat. At low levels stunning blow was better and at higher levels also because of the ki restrictions and DC's are not significantly better. Any monks with this feat might have more info? Anyways i guess the post is about making DC's for enhancements ( ie monk stunning fist and or rogue WoTAII) effective and worth while in general.

Dylos_Moon
06-07-2008, 03:06 AM
Human Monk, Max Wisdom, Water Stance

Stunning Fist at level 1, 18 Wisdom+1 Tome+1 Item+2 Stance= 16 DC
Stunning Fist at level 6, 19 Wisdom+1 Tome+3 Item+2 Stance+3 Enhancement= 22 DC
Stunning Fist at level 10, 20 Wisdom+1 Tome+4 Item+2 Stance+4 Enhancement= 25 DC
Stunning Fist at level 14. 21 Wisdom+2 Tome+6 Item+3 Stance+4 Enhancement= 30 DC
Stunning Fist at level 16, 22 Wisdom+3 Tome+9 Item+3 Stance+4 Enhancement+1 Lotd= 34 DC

Dwarven Fighter, Max Strength, Max Tactics

Stunning Blow at level 1, 18 Strength+1 Tome+1 Item= 16 DC
Stunning Blow at level 6, 19 Strength+1 Tome+4 Item+2 Enhancement= 22 DC
Stunning Blow at level 10, 20 Strength+1 Tome+4 Item+3 Enhancement= 26 DC
Stunning Blow at level 14, 21 Strength+2 Tome+6 Item+3 Enhancement= 28 DC
Stunning Blow at level 16, 22 Strength+3 Tome+9 Item+3 Enhancement+1 Lotd= 31 DC

Not sure of the ML of Weighted weapons, but I know they max out at +10 DC, so without any sort of Rages, 41 DC stun for the dwarf with the tenderizer (and a greensteel str item in the offhand)

Now, there is a big difference there, yes. But quite a bit of it is not going to be noticed by a Dark Side monk with cursespewing handwraps. You use your Fists of Darkness first, and the saving throws of the target fall, especially if they get cursed as well. Of course, a Monk cannot use Cursespewing Handwraps and a +9 greensteel item at the same time. (they can however have a +9 greensteel item and still attack with their fists, just put the greensteel kama in their offhand and don't use handwraps.)

EspyLacopa
06-07-2008, 07:22 AM
Human Monk, Max Wisdom, Water Stance

Stunning Fist at level 1, 18 Wisdom+1 Tome+1 Item+2 Stance= 16 DC
Stunning Fist at level 6, 19 Wisdom+1 Tome+3 Item+2 Stance+3 Enhancement= 22 DC
Stunning Fist at level 10, 20 Wisdom+1 Tome+4 Item+2 Stance+4 Enhancement= 25 DC
Stunning Fist at level 14. 21 Wisdom+2 Tome+6 Item+3 Stance+4 Enhancement= 30 DC
Stunning Fist at level 16, 22 Wisdom+3 Tome+9 Item+3 Stance+4 Enhancement+1 Lotd= 34 DC

Dwarven Fighter, Max Strength, Max Tactics

Stunning Blow at level 1, 18 Strength+1 Tome+1 Item= 16 DC
Stunning Blow at level 6, 19 Strength+1 Tome+4 Item+2 Enhancement= 22 DC
Stunning Blow at level 10, 20 Strength+1 Tome+4 Item+3 Enhancement= 26 DC
Stunning Blow at level 14, 21 Strength+2 Tome+6 Item+3 Enhancement= 28 DC
Stunning Blow at level 16, 22 Strength+3 Tome+9 Item+3 Enhancement+1 Lotd= 31 DC

Not sure of the ML of Weighted weapons, but I know they max out at +10 DC, so without any sort of Rages, 41 DC stun for the dwarf with the tenderizer (and a greensteel str item in the offhand)

Now, there is a big difference there, yes. But quite a bit of it is not going to be noticed by a Dark Side monk with cursespewing handwraps. You use your Fists of Darkness first, and the saving throws of the target fall, especially if they get cursed as well. Of course, a Monk cannot use Cursespewing Handwraps and a +9 greensteel item at the same time. (they can however have a +9 greensteel item and still attack with their fists, just put the greensteel kama in their offhand and don't use handwraps.)

The problem with the Max Wisdom bit is that you don't use Wisdom for attacks (unless they add the feat Intuitive Attack. . .)
As such, while Stunning Fist may be able to attain a Higher DC, it's at the cost of a much lower attack bonus, since the max str dwarf gets to use his Strength for both his Attack and his Damage.