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Brandiwyne
06-02-2008, 01:32 PM
I just wanted to give a thumbs-up to the decision to base the fascinate song save against the bard's perform skill.

It is my opinion that this makes good sense.

I am curious if there has been any thought to applying the same mechanic to the other bard songs (suggestion and song of freedom), since the last time I checked they used caster level + d20 (or something like that) for save/success DC.

Freeman
06-02-2008, 02:11 PM
Song of Suggestion has a DC of 10 + 1/2 Bard Level + Charisma modifier, as it does in PnP. Song of Freedom works like Break Enchantment, with the roll being d20 + Bard level. Both of these are implemented correctly currently. Only Fascinate was broken.

Brandiwyne
06-02-2008, 02:19 PM
OK, Freeman, thanks for the info. I'm not really up to date on current PnP rules, so I was unaware that this was how it was implemented.

Out of curiosity, why that way as opposed to using perform skill? Too powerful?

Borror0
06-02-2008, 02:22 PM
Song of Freedom works like Break Enchantment, with the roll being d20 + Bard level.

hehe, you're happy it's fixed, eh?

Freeman
06-02-2008, 02:26 PM
Most likely that was the case. In PnP, Fascinate was not nearly as powerful an ability. Any hostile action, even drawing a weapon or looking menacing, would break the effect. A bard also had to continue playing the whole time, or it would stop working. You were also limited to only affecting a small number of creatures. Because of all of the limitations, the high DC of the save wasn't considered overpowered. The Suggestion song mimics the spell, so they probably wanted to keep the DC roughly the same as a spell, but also allow it to improve as you leveled to keep it from becoming useless. For Song of Freedom, they just used the same mechanic that Break Enchantment used.

Freeman
06-02-2008, 02:29 PM
hehe, you're happy it's fixed, eh?

Nothing is fixed yet. We'll see whether it actually works as intended once the mod goes live. Or maybe I'll log onto Risia tonight and test it. I'm not taking anything for granted until I either see it for myself or get multiple eyewitness reports from reliable sources.

Borror0
06-02-2008, 02:47 PM
Nothing is fixed yet.
You're telling me it's not fixed on live yet?! I was sure it was...

Freeman
06-02-2008, 02:50 PM
You're telling me it's not fixed on live yet?! I was sure it was...

Oh, you were talking about Song of Freedom. Yes, that was fixed over a year ago.(Only took about five months of badgering) I was referring to the fix for Fascinate. That should teach me not to let that work stuff distract me while I'm posting :p

maddmatt70
06-02-2008, 02:52 PM
Fascinate doesn't resemble the pnp equivalent because for one the casting time of fascinate takes far longer then it should according to pnp rules. Where this will have the most impact is low to mid levels which is where they should encourage the use of fascinating the most for newer players. I am a huge fan of the fascinate ability and bards in general, but I don't think it is used enough in game by the players...

Borror0
06-02-2008, 02:54 PM
I am a huge fan of the fascinate ability and bards in general, but I don't think it is used enough in game by the players...

Yeah, but bards are an underestimated class too. However, I'm seeing Fascinate being used more and more on my server.

Borror0
06-02-2008, 02:55 PM
Oh, you were talking about Song of Freedom.

Yeah, you know, like that quote was showing?:D

maddmatt70
06-02-2008, 03:07 PM
Yeah, but bards are an underestimated class too. However, I'm seeing Fascinate being used more and more on my server.

As long as they keep producing 12 person raids and not 6 person quests there will be a bard spot. It seems every group on my server forming for a shroud run wants at least 1 bard. Regarding 6 person quests well hopefully they will have those again someday at the high end game so I can run hangover and rabiez a bit through those - I enjoy the 6 person quests better then the raids personally especially for hangover (she is just way more fun).

Lizardgrad89
06-02-2008, 03:10 PM
Yeah, but bards are an underestimated class too. However, I'm seeing Fascinate being used more and more on my server.

Bards Rock.

I sing courage and greatness, and occasionally ironskin. Never bother with fascinate. I kill everything too fast for fascinate to make a difference.

Borror0
06-02-2008, 03:13 PM
As long as they keep producing 12 person raids and not 6 person quests there will be a bard spot.

Wrong, do you see a lot of bard slots for the Stormreaver? The right wording would be rather "AS long as they keep producing melee-focused raids, there will be a lot of people looking to get bard songs." I also suspect a lot of PuGs to pick a bard just to quicken part 1 rather than for their strength.

Besides, that doesn't make of bards a less underestimated class. People only pick them for their songs...


Regarding 6 person quests well hopefully they will have those again someday at the high end game so I can run hangover and rabiez a bit through those - I enjoy the 6 person quests better then the raids personally especially for hangover.

Me too, I prefer 6-man's over raids.

Borror0
06-02-2008, 03:18 PM
Bards Rock.

hehe, the real question is... intended or not? But I agree. They're, to me, the strongest class in the whole game.


Never bother with fascinate. I kill everything too fast for fascinate to make a difference.

It depends if you low man a lot lot. It has its used, but mostly at low level. Also, it's important to have timing. Usually, you try to start the song before moving towards to mobs. You want the effect to take place at the moment you reach the mobs. Take a little practice, but it's great. Also nice when things go wrong.

Cupcake
06-02-2008, 04:26 PM
hehe, the real question is... intended or not? But I agree. They're, to me, the strongest class in the whole game.



It depends if you low man a lot lot. It has its used, but mostly at low level. Also, it's important to have timing. Usually, you try to start the song before moving towards to mobs. You want the effect to take place at the moment you reach the mobs. Take a little practice, but it's great. Also nice when things go wrong.

I wouldn't say my bard rocks. I built her for healing and CC. I love fascinate and use it when I can. Though it is very annoying when I fascinate a group of mobs and the caster breaks it all with a wall of fire or some such spell.

Fascinate is cool in ............the quest in the vale with the stupid bats....oh coalescence..

I can kill, but its not my strong point..My lvl 16 bard is a spellsinger..my lvl 6 bard is a warchanter...he.. can kill..

Borror0
06-02-2008, 04:41 PM
Though it is very annoying when I fascinate a group of mobs and the caster breaks it all with a wall of fire or some such spell.

hehe, that's why I yell at them when they do.;) Usually, they learn.

Zenako
06-02-2008, 06:04 PM
Fascinate is a great for when the bleep hits the fan...give the mobs a timeout!!!

At low levels makes quests like Stealthy Repossesion rather easy, even Bringing the Light becomes a cake walk.

In other quests, Song of the Dead or Makers can get the same things. Makes parts of Deleras or the Necro pretty painless when all the undead are just music lovers...