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View Full Version : Sneak attack items and Subtle backstabber



aurus33
06-02-2008, 12:17 PM
Anyone else had done some tests on sneak attacks items, like:

Goggles of Intuition (http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/jgould2005/DDO/Items/GogglesofIntuition.png)
Backstabber's Gloves (http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/jgould2005/DDO/Items/BackstabbersGloves.jpg)
Bracers of the Hunter (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/CJGMURPG/DDOitems/BracersoftheHunter.jpg)
Treason (http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/jgould2005/DDO/Items/Treason.jpg)
Bravo Sword (http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/jgould2005/DDO/Items/BravosSword.jpg)

Do the bonus stacks with other with sneak attack bonus?

The description shows a +2 bonus to-hit (or +3 on treason or +5 on bravo sword), but doesn't show a type, am I missing something? my guess is that they should stack and they are not (according to my tests)...


The same questions goes for subtle backstabber and Treason (http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/jgould2005/DDO/Items/Treason.jpg) the abilitie, are these supposed to stack, overlap or rolled independently on each sneak attack to check for aggro again?

Anyone *cough* devs *cough* can provide some light on this please?

Angelus_dead
06-02-2008, 12:35 PM
The description shows a +2 bonus to-hit (or +3 on treason or +5 on bravo sword), but doesn't show a type, am I missing something? my guess is that they should stack and they are not (according to my tests)...
They should not stack, and they don't.


The same questions goes for subtle backstabber and Treason (http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/jgould2005/DDO/Items/Treason.jpg) the abilitie, are these supposed to stack, overlap or rolled independently on each sneak attack to check for aggro again?
Those should stack, and they probably do, although it would take a lot of work to test it.

Coldin
06-02-2008, 12:39 PM
Anyone else had done some tests on sneak attacks items, like:

Goggles of Intuition (http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/jgould2005/DDO/Items/GogglesofIntuition.png)
Backstabber's Gloves (http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/jgould2005/DDO/Items/BackstabbersGloves.jpg)
Bracers of the Hunter (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/CJGMURPG/DDOitems/BracersoftheHunter.jpg)
Treason (http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/jgould2005/DDO/Items/Treason.jpg)
Bravo Sword (http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/jgould2005/DDO/Items/BravosSword.jpg)

Do the bonus stacks with other with sneak attack bonus?

The description shows a +2 bonus to-hit (or +3 on treason or +5 on bravo sword), but doesn't show a type, am I missing something? my guess is that they should stack and they are not (according to my tests)...


The same questions goes for subtle backstabber and Treason (http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/jgould2005/DDO/Items/Treason.jpg) the abilitie, are these supposed to stack, overlap or rolled independently on each sneak attack to check for aggro again?

Anyone *cough* devs *cough* can provide some light on this please?

The Backstabbing Bonuses stack with enhancements, and with weapon enhancements too. So, if you have Treason and Sneak Attack Accuracy I, you'll be getting +9 (3 from treason + 1 from SAA I +5 from being a +5 weapon) plus any other bonuses to attack you may have. I've tested this myself, and they do stack.

As for Subtle Backstabbing and the Treason Ability stacking or not, I have no clue. It's a rather hard thing to test.

Edit: Reread the OP. Sneak Attack bonuses from items will not stack with each other. Only the highest takes effect.

Deaths_ward
06-02-2008, 01:14 PM
Well Theoretically the testing of Treason stacking with subtle backstabber should be easy. If you get subtle backstabber up to 20% and wield Treason then you technically can't draw aggro through attack damage.

So just take someone with you to grab aggro and see if your best sneak attacks can draw aggro, if you ever grab the aggro of a creature trained on your "Friend" then they don't stack.

Angelus_dead
06-02-2008, 01:20 PM
Well Theoretically the testing of Treason stacking with subtle backstabber should be easy. If you get subtle backstabber up to 20% and wield Treason then you technically can't draw aggro through attack damage.
Stacking them doesn't mean you'd get zero aggro.

If you wanted to test this, you'd need a friend to damage a monster, preferably a scrag troll and preferably with a Harm spell. Then you'd attack with treason + subtle backstabber and add up how much damage you can do before pulling aggro.

Muirtach
06-02-2008, 01:25 PM
Well Theoretically the testing of Treason stacking with subtle backstabber should be easy. If you get subtle backstabber up to 20% and wield Treason then you technically can't draw aggro through attack damage.

So just take someone with you to grab aggro and see if your best sneak attacks can draw aggro, if you ever grab the aggro of a creature trained on your "Friend" then they don't stack.

Treason is worded backwards. It does not negate 80% of aggro. Instead it drops you to 80%. In other words it gives a 20% loss.

aurus33
06-02-2008, 01:25 PM
The Backstabbing Bonuses stack with enhancements, and with weapon enhancements too. So, if you have Treason and Sneak Attack Accuracy I, you'll be getting +9 (3 from treason + 1 from SAA I +5 from being a +5 weapon) plus any other bonuses to attack you may have. I've tested this myself, and they do stack.

As for Subtle Backstabbing and the Treason Ability stacking or not, I have no clue. It's a rather hard thing to test.

Edit: Reread the OP. Sneak Attack bonuses from items will not stack with each other. Only the highest takes effect.

While I agree with you I fail to see the wording on the abilitie to support this.

Like I said, the bonus on the items does not mention a type of bonus to-hit, therefore setting to an "untyped" bonus, and with this allowing the chance to stack according to the way bonus apply on DDO.

With this in mind, my opinion is that they should stack.

aurus33
06-02-2008, 01:30 PM
Treason is worded backwards. It does not negate 80% of aggro. Instead it drops you to 80%. In other words it gives a 20% loss.

Makes sense.

Treason: This weapon reduces the threat generated by melee damage to 80% of normal.

This will make that for every 10 attacks, 2 are ignored or threated as not done on the mob stand point (basic math I know but it covers the example), darn, I need to read carefully next time!, Thanks Muirtach.

Borror0
06-02-2008, 01:39 PM
Like I said, the bonus on the items does not mention a type of bonus to-hit, therefore setting to an "untyped" bonus, and with this allowing the chance to stack according to the way bonus apply on DDO.

DDO is really good ain not identifying what stacks or not. I know, I don't liek it either. That 's why the wiki is there.

(This is where I'd put a wiki link, but I cannot get a page to load... for some reason... it'd be something like http://ddo.enterwiki.net/page/Backstabbing.)

Borror0
06-02-2008, 01:42 PM
Treason is worded backwards. It does not negate 80% of aggro. Instead it drops you to 80%. In other words it gives a 20% loss.

Exactly, that's what it does. Items and enhancements stack, it's more whether or nor multiple Treasons stack that is the question.

dragonoffrost
06-02-2008, 01:46 PM
DDO is really good ain not identifying what stacks or not. I know, I don't liek it either. That 's why the wiki is there.

(This is where I'd put a wiki link, but I cannot get a page to load... for some reason... it'd be something like http://ddo.enterwiki.net/page/Backstabbing.)


no worries they can link from your signature :D

Borror0
06-02-2008, 01:54 PM
no worries they can link from your signature :D

What I meant is that the wiki seems to be down. I try to load pages and it gives me:


Serveur introuvable

Firefox ne peut trouver le serveur à l'adresse ddo.enterwiki.net


Veuillez vérifier la syntaxe de l'adresse (saisie de ww.exemple.com au lieu de www.exemple.com par exemple) ;

Si vous n'arrivez à naviguer sur aucun site, vérifiez la connexion au réseau de votre ordinateur ;

Si votre ordinateur ou votre réseau est protégé par un pare-feu ou un assurez-vous que Firefox a l'autorisation d'accéder au Web.


For anyone wondering, it's french and means server cannot be found. Am I the only one? (If it's written in english you've still got the same problem as I.)

Turial
06-02-2008, 02:15 PM
Exactly, that's what it does. Items and enhancements stack, it's more whether or nor multiple Treasons stack that is the question.

I would say no, only based on the pnp example, that named items cannot give you the same bonus twice. Granted its a DDO item so who knows what they did.

aurus33
06-02-2008, 02:23 PM
I am pretty sure that two items of the same name wont provide twice the benefits, I've tried this with potency items, and I dual wield treason's as well, and the to-hit while sneak attacking doesn't get any benefit.

The rule I came to know that till now, works while trying to add something that applies to the same abilities is:

Feat + Enhancement + Item + Racial benefit = stacks

Feats that add more than one bonus to something either they overlap or the description will say if its a plain addition ie: weapon focus/greater weapon focus.

Enhancement: This overlap for what I remember from the top of my head.

Item: Like the potency example, this wont stack, but will overlap, bigger wins.

Racial Benefit: well, you know, +2 elf dexterity beats +1, etc :)

Maybe this very same explanation can explain my question on sneak attack items bonus to-hit, but still, I think the description might use a tweak to reflect the real effect.


Btw Turial, last time I checked you werent level 15, update that sig! ;)

Borror0
06-02-2008, 02:25 PM
I would say no, only based on the pnp example, that named items cannot give you the same bonus twice. Granted its a DDO item so who knows what they did.

I know, they followed the rules for Chattering Ring...

PS: Anyone can get on the wiki?

aurus33
06-02-2008, 02:27 PM
PS: Anyone can get on the wiki?

yup, I was there a while ago :)

Borror0
06-02-2008, 02:27 PM
The rule I came to know that till now, works while trying to add something that applies to the same abilities is:

Feat + Class enhancement + Racial enhancement + Item + Racial benefit = stacks

That's my rule.

Borror0
06-02-2008, 02:28 PM
yup, I was there a while ago :)

How about now?

Impaqt
06-02-2008, 02:47 PM
Wiki Seems FIne to me.

Borror0
06-02-2008, 02:51 PM
Wiki Seems FIne to me.

Errr... ok? Not like if I need to have access to it now anyway, I'm busy enough with the new one...

aurus33
06-02-2008, 02:52 PM
Same, I am there no problem :)

Borror0
06-02-2008, 03:04 PM
Same, I am there no problem :)

Doesn't on my Wii, neither on my roomate's laptop... but it works on my neighbor's connection...