View Full Version : Flurry of blows....change the name pls

06-02-2008, 02:09 AM
Off all the hundred great things coming in Mod 7...flurry of blows is not one of them.

D&D flurry = adding attacks at a -2 to hit penalty. So a monk can choose to 'go nuts' on lower ac targets and get a lot more attacks. Double attacks at most levels, or at least 50% more depending on the bab.

DDO 'flurry' = Adding bab as a monk levels up. Which, given the already existing seriously annoying slower attacks at high bab...means that as a monk levels up, they will get SLOWER attacks with a HIGHER to hit. Which is the exact opposite of what flurry of blows is.

What it should have been is a stance like Combat expertise or Power attack, activate to get -2 and 25% faster attacks. (It should be faster, but D&D monks also are not affected by haste, which DDO ones probably will be, and also DDO adds an extra attack already at +1 bab). If monks were not affected by haste then a 50-75% speed increase would be more accurate.

But what is coming on Jan 3 is not flurry of blows, and should be called something else.

There is still time to change it later to more attacks at a lower to hit.

The other issue is that 4th/5th attacks should not be getting +5/+10 to hit. Monsters should not be balanced where a 16th level character with good gear and all buffed up NEEDs +10 more to hit something. If that is the case the monster doesnt belong in a level 16 quest. At the very least all monsters ac should be lowered at the high ends to more reasonable levels, and all extra bab attacks should be at best no extra bonus to hit, or even lower to hit bonuses (only if monsters also get lower to hit as they do in D&D for extra attacks).

There is tons, and tons of nice things coming in Mod 7 that I am happy to see and excited about. But this is really reversing a staple of what monks have been for a long time in D&D.

06-02-2008, 08:32 AM
But what is coming on Jan 3 is not flurry of blows, and should be called something else.

I hate it when they push back Mods for no reason. ;)

06-02-2008, 09:58 AM

I have to admit, that with the current 'flurry', Windstance, Finishing Moves considered spells I am not as excited.

06-10-2008, 09:47 AM
I didn't want to start a new thread for this, but I wanted to point out that statistically, with DDO's version of Flurry of Blows you hit 10% less than with PnP Flurry of Blows and do 25% less damage.

Lets assume you have a monk with a BAB of 0 trying to hit an AC 9. He will hit AC 9 on a roll of 9-20 which means he will hit 60% of the time.

Now, DDO's Flurry of Blows gives you an extra +1, increasing your chance to hit to 65%.

However, in PnP you actually have two attacks at -2 each. That is equivalent to the same monk now trying to hit AC 11. He will hit AC 11 on a roll of 11-20 which means he will hit 50% of the time. With two attacks ( 1 - (1/2 * 1/2)) = 75% of the time.

So, statistically, a monk using Flurry of Blows should hit 15% more often and have a 25% chance of doing double damage.

If they really want to make Flurry of Blows statistically the same as PnP they need to increase the +1 to +3 and increase damage while Flurrying by 25%.

However, in PnP your Flurry of Blows attack penalty is lessened by 1 at levels 5 and 9. So assuming that in DDO you continue to receive an extra +1 attack bonus every four levels after level 9, you will have the same chance to hit as your PnP counterpart at level 17, but you will still do 25% less damage.

06-10-2008, 02:22 PM
Added to this is the lower speed of monks overall. The wind stance doesnt stack with haste, and as someone else posted the exact numbers even at tier 3 it is something like 20% faster attacks....which makes them 5% slower than a normal fighter with haste potions or a spell.

Given there is no speed increase with flurry, but a decrease as you go up in bab attacks - monks essentially have - at least for damage dealing - become fighters with a handwrap over fighters with a sword.

Monks are supposed to be different, not just the special abilities, but a different way of attacking. being able to lower your to hit but get an extra 2 attacks is powerful on lower ac monsters, but not as good for tougher enemies. As it is now they have the same baba and number of attacks as a fighter, and nothing stacks so a hasted fighter is better off than a wind stance monk using 'flurry of blows'.

While they changed it for 3rd edition I think, I still like the 2nd edition idea that monks are immune to haste and slow - but that is because their ground speed and attacks are already faster than haste. My monk got a 5% ground speed boost at level 4....which if the 5% per 3 levels holds means a level 16 monk will have a grand total of...a 25% movement boost. Not even as fast as haste, and it doesnt stack with haste.

pnp monks could move at 3x speed at high levels, which is far too fast for DDO, but 25% is way too low. a 75% increase at max would be faster than haste, about a barb on speed maybe, but not so fast the graphics would not keep up. 15% every 3 levels would be about right.

Anyway I digress. More speed please.