PDA

View Full Version : Will mod 8 have content?



MrWizard
05-29-2008, 04:48 PM
So, been away for a bit, though stay on the forums.

Mod 5 had a few dungeons and a raid that most will not attempt, but it looked cool.
Mod 6 had a few dungeons and a raid that is built as a crafting module
Mod 7 looks to have to raids and only 2 dungeons.

And of course some outdoor areas are included in each.

Gianthold had 9 dungeons and I think they added other mid and lower level dungeons at the time too. Gianthold held my interest and was awesome. And had a few outside areas too. Mod 3, the desert had a lot of dungeons and extra areas too..great fun.

It would seem to me that the development is working towards a smaller amount of dungeons, yet making them extremely hard (in relation to earlier dungeons when they came out), and making the game revolve more around raiding and crafting.

Call me old school, but I already miss the days of waiting for new content that included lots of dungeons....and crawling around in them til the next mod.

Will mod 8 have like 20 dungeons and a bunch of areas, or will it be a few dungeons and some more crafting raids? I know a lot of people love to run the raids over and over and over some 60 to 100 times to get stuff...and craft weapons. But I do not.

20 or so dungeons would be fun to check out for a while til the next mod. Especially if they were longer (not long in the way coalesence chamber is please) but entertaining and interestingly long.

I find the content neat and fun, but the dungeons have been not as entertaining to me as in the past. And I see the trend being less dungeons, more crafting raids, and well, it is just not as entertaining.

Yea, I know, I am in the minority. But I would really love to see a module with 20 - 50 dungeons added, just to blow us away with content. Even if a lot of them were just 'giant cave' types..

If the shroud is a harbringer of how ddo will be now, mostly raid based, mostly craft based raiding, and the raids built not like tempestspine but built like '5000 hp portals'...

I gotta say I would not be very excited about coming back in every now and then.

Karrai
05-29-2008, 05:04 PM
So, been away for a bit, though stay on the forums.

Mod 5 had a few dungeons and a raid that most will not attempt, but it looked cool.
Mod 6 had a few dungeons and a raid that is built as a crafting module
Mod 7 looks to have to raids and only 2 dungeons.



Some corrections
Mod 5: had 11 dungeons: the cursed crypts has 5, Orchard has 4, pre-raid broken down into 4 small quests and Badly design raid.
Mod 6: I agree about mod 5
Mod 7: has 3 mid-lv quests and I think 2 raids.

I also would like to see more mid - high level quests that are not raids.
Iam all getting tired of raid this raid that as the main focus of the game for higher lv content. The time is probably takes to story board, design, test out mechanics for one raid they could have design a lot more non-raids.

Borror0
05-29-2008, 05:05 PM
I already miss the days of waiting for new content that included lots of dungeons....and crawling around in them til the next mod.

Me too. :(

I find that DDO's strength is more the small groups than the big one. Smaller groups lend itself better to fast paced action than big groups where coordination and tactics are more what's needed. I just find smaller groups to take most advantage of DDO's strength.

I don't think we're alone. Module 4 was the most popular module ever. Way more than module 6.

Depravity
05-29-2008, 05:27 PM
I don't think we're alone. Module 4 was the most popular module ever. Way more than module 6.

You're not alone. I started playing last Nov, and I think mod 6 is a bit...lacking. I have one capped character, and shortly after I capped him, I made my 1750 and started rolling a new crop. My capped wizzy comes out once a week for bloodstone runs, and sometimes loot runs in Running W/ The Devils (the first two chests are easy to solo, and I've pulled lev 15 gear out of both). Grinding the same 5 quests and a raid over and over just doesn't interest me. Running a lowby up and trying to hit all the quests I missed the first time around because few people want to do anything other than powerlevel is far more to my liking.

Other things that interest me, again doing low-to-mid quests:
Stealth play (my capped wiz was built for it, just hard to pull off with a pug full of zergers)
Permadeath - haven't made the leap yet, just trying to decide what build to try
"gimped" builds that don't fit people's preconceptions - sig just came up w/ a tactics rogue AC tank for me. I look muchly forward to it.

I'd like to see another gianthold. A big area with a dozen to two dozen new quests I can go play in is far more interesting than yet another raid to grind.

Impaqt
05-29-2008, 05:41 PM
Mod 5 was Huge... Just as big, if not bigger than gianthold.

Mod 6 had a Level Cap increase so yeah, the number of Dungeons was lower. But the explorer area is huge. as is the Raid.

Mod 7 looks like it may have fewer "dungeons" but will have a ton of added content. 3-barrel Cove Exploerer Plus all the additinal Colect and Win quests that have been added.

Md 8 will most likely be another level cap raise, so I wouldnt get my hopes up on 10+ new dungeons.

Gratch
05-29-2008, 05:44 PM
I'm guessing Mod 7 has less "content" due to the resources the monk and 3 barrel redesign has pulled. I don't actually mind the 3 barrel redesign but wish the added quests had been a higher level.

Mod 8's big dev-referenced feature is full on crafting with deconstruction/construction. Given crafting hopefully uses some different resources than content, hopefully we'll have lots of content in Mod 8. Though I've heard no mention as to whether Mod 8 does anything with the level cap. The last official item on the level cap was to note they would only do 2 levels (instead of straight to L20) in order to have enough content to go along with those 2 levels.

Mod 8 is a continuation of the shroud, marketplace-event, shavarath invasion storyline. The devs noted that we will be going to Shavarath in Mod 8. Hopefully we'll get a number of quests there... though there is almost definitely a raid as well.

Having just leveled another toon up to cap... level 8/9 was still the biggest quest repeat area that could use some more filling out.

Depravity
05-29-2008, 05:45 PM
I'm going to bring this up, but I think it may hold a glimmer of hope:

Random dungeons.

I will be the first to say that this can go horribly horribly horribly wrong. I used to play City of Villians/Heroes, and such was the case there. Bland textures, the same few components and mob spawns over and over and over again. They just weren't worth grinding through in order to get to the good content. So I left my mastermind (thugs FTW) behind and quit with no other MMO to distract me. It was that tedious.

That said, DDO has some great mechanics, and a good many of those, that could be used to make dungeons more, well, random. Going into a dungeon and not knowing ahead of time what we were going to run into would keep me on the edge of my seat, or at least closer to it than yet another sleeping dust run. No knowing where the traps/secret doors are? Rogues start actually taking levels in spot again. Not knowing what kind of monster lurks in the depths? Bring your golf bag, or at least invest in some wider application, less optimized for a single raid gear. No idea where the end of the quest or even the next shrine is? Stealth heads like myself, Thelanis's Syberis Touched, and Ghoste all smile big.

IMO this is not worth the Devs' time without a serious vote of support from the community. We'd have to give up a good chunk of a mod to do it, although getting the nuts and bolts put together would lead to an almost literally infinite amount of content.

Pros:
More content
Unpredictability brings back that "new dungeon smell"
Changes character build decisions - flexibilty becomes more important, rather than optimizing for current endgame.
Bragging rights aplenty for pulling this sort of thing off on elite w/ no reentry, no cleric, particularly idiotic zerger in PUG, etc.

Cons:
Major project - but with a mod containing a handful of quests and a raid, it may be worth it.
Potential for blandness without sufficent work (we need a lot of dungeon pieces in the toolkit.
I have a feeling it would make flaws in the AI painfully obvious with no groundwork laid for the mobs ahead of time.
May not interest a large portion of the playerbase - those that like the safety of a well-known adventure.

A middle of the road plan could be to do a single large dungeon with some parts of it randomized to test out the mechanics. Say a few rooms at the beginning, some randomized areas to run through, a rest/set looting area, more randomized, followed by a boss.

/threadjack (hopefully)

please make fun of me relentlessly/pick the idea to shreds/etc so I can stop pushing for this sort of thing. :D

Magnyr_Delorn
05-29-2008, 05:58 PM
I don't think we're alone. Module 4 was the most popular module ever. Way more than module 6.

Personally, Mod 3 was my favorite. I've been disappointed in everything after Mod 4.

Qzipoun
05-29-2008, 06:10 PM
I remember when mod 7 was talked about as a mod that MIGHT include SOME low level content for new monks, now it's just a lowbie mod...


Everyone wants good new high level content, everyone except Turbine that is.

ArkoHighStar
05-29-2008, 06:20 PM
Me too. :(

I find that DDO's strength is more the small groups than the big one. Smaller groups lend itself better to fast paced action than big groups where coordination and tactics are more what's needed. I just find smaller groups to take most advantage of DDO's strength.

I don't think we're alone. Module 4 was the most popular module ever. Way more than module 6.

A raid can have that small group feel, just look at Tempest, it may have 12 people but it feels like a 6 man quest, Von 5 and the Twilight Forge have a simliar feel. After that all the raids are just big rooms, or in the case of the shroud 5 big rooms. Md 4 was great because it had a little of everything, it had a raid, a pre raid runnable every day, with some nice loot and first real version of crafting(dragon scales). It had an outdoor area, it had 3 big quests with a loot run(POP), and it had smaller quests that could be done in a shorter period of time. There was something for everyone random named loot, the only part that came up a little short was the adventure area, that while really nice, simply became something people had to run through to get to quests. Once you did the explorere and rare there was nothing like tapestries or bloodstones to keep you coming back.

Turbine seems to think the adventure areas are suitable replacements for the short 6 man quests like Trial by Fire, but they just aren't once you finish explorer and rare, it is simply a grind to do slayer, or to farm for rare items, while you may see a bunch of LFM's for TBF you rarely see LFM's for just slayer.

Borror0
05-29-2008, 06:27 PM
Mod 5 was Huge... Just as big, if not bigger than gianthold.

Module 5 was big, but was a misplaced effort. The Abbot was horribly managed, the Tomb quest weren't target for the right level range.
The DToV issue was also horribly managed.

Oh, and module 5 was delayed of a month.


Mod 6 had a Level Cap increase so yeah, the number of Dungeons was lower. But the explorer area is huge. as is the Raid.

Module 4 had a level cap raise, more spells, more content. A level cap is no excuse.

Oh, and took longer for it to come out. And there was much more content between Module 3 and Module 4 then there are in Module 6. I'm still waiting to see that "Less updates, but more content." in action. Because, to be honest, it seems like the content reduces at every module and the updates happen less often.


Mod 7 looks like it may have fewer "dungeons" but will have a ton of added content. 3-barrel Cove Exploerer Plus all the additinal Colect and Win quests that have been added.

Three Barel Cove is some in-between big modules stuff usually, which we're not having anymore.
As for the collect and win quests, is it that big?

Exclude the monk and the two raids, and there is more content in Module 4.2 than in Module 7.

dragnmoon
05-29-2008, 06:28 PM
Mod 6 had a Level Cap increase so yeah, the number of Dungeons was lower. But the explorer area is huge. as is the Raid.


Though Mod 6 Content was small in comparison to past Mods, The Level Increase was not the reason..

Take a Look at was added for Mod 3& 4 which also had Level increases and you will see that those Mods where Much larger then Mod 6 with less Development time then they put into Mod 6. And if you add in the Mini Mods for 3&4 to make it equivalent to the time spent on Mod 6, those Mods are HUGE!! in comparison.

Something has Changed in the Development of DDO, I don't know what it is. Though we are getting Quality Additions to the game *Abbot aside* We are not getting even close to the amount we used to get in a Mod.

Edit: Also what Borror0 said ;):p:D

maddmatt70
05-29-2008, 06:31 PM
A raid can have that small group feel, just look at Tempest, it may have 12 people but it feels like a 6 man quest, Von 5 and the Twilight Forge have a simliar feel. After that all the raids are just big rooms, or in the case of the shroud 5 big rooms.

There is a very different dynamic in a 12 man raid vs. 6 man quest. This fact affects the characters I create and play. Hangover, my healing/spellsinger bard, does fine in 12 man raids because she can take the place of a cleric and provide bard buffs, but I feel she excels in 6 man quests and enjoy playing her much more in those quests. Her talents are ccing (not a favored ability in raids) and the ability to run without a cleric in a 6 person quest because of her healing capabilities which often results in more dps for the party. Alot of people are making characters with 12 person quests in mind rather then 6 person quests which is very un D&D like.

Impaqt
05-29-2008, 06:39 PM
Exclude the monk and the two raids, and there is more content in Module 4.2 than in Module 7.


So Monks and 2 raids isnt a big deal?


as for 3 barrel cove... You havent been on Risia yet have you? 3 barrel cove is pretty darn close to the size of the Orchard now. Its signicficantly more impresive than Searing Heights, Cerulean Hills and even Atraxias. It is defnatly a mod worthy explorer area.

ArkoHighStar
05-29-2008, 06:41 PM
Though Mod 6 Content was small in comparison to past Mods, The Level Increase was not the reason..

Take a Look at was added for Mod 3& 4 which also had Level increases and you will see that those Mods where Much larger then Mod 6 with less Development time then they put into Mod 6. And if you add in the Mini Mods for 3&4 to make it equivalent to the time spent on Mod 6, those Mods are HUGE!! in comparison.

Something has Changed in the Development of DDO, I don't know what it is. Though we are getting Quality Additions to the game *Abbot aside* We are not getting even close to the amount we used to get in a Mod.

Edit: Also what Borror0 said ;):p:D

Judging the first 3 mods against the last the mods is a bit hard in that we don't know how much of it was partly done prior to launch. Mod 1 was obviously meant to be part of the original release but didn't go live due to Atari wanting it released. the mini mods between mod 1 and 2 could have been partially done as well. Mod 2 is actually quite small 3 quests and the pre raid/raid combo, there was other content delivered as well but again how much could have been partially completed and just polished up for delivery. Between mod 2 and 4 there was a lot of work done. People claim that all the devs were moved over to lotro, but this period of heavy activity coincides with the final dev push and go live of LOTRO, so that theory kind of doesn't make sense. The mod 4-6 period saw DDO really try new things, like adventure areas, crafting, updating the engine, the server merge. These things seem to halt all new development for a long time, and it seems they have been playing catch up ever since.

captain1z
05-29-2008, 06:54 PM
not a bad plan in response to what the community has been asking for. We asked for high level content some time ago and they are giving it to us.

Plenty of raids and crafting related stuff for us to do, now they add 2 more raids and a high level open area for 12 people. Next step would be to go back and fill in the gaps for mid and high levels. Work on lots of quests and release em all for mod 8 along with 1 raid and a level cap raise to 20. If thats how it goesit wont be so bad.





wow........... looking back, Ive been here for every mod and every new addition to the game. This game has changed so much since day 1 and player reactions are always the same for every mod. Not saying thats a good or bad thing.... just an observation.

ArkoHighStar
05-29-2008, 06:59 PM
So Monks and 2 raids isnt a big deal?


as for 3 barrel cove... You havent been on Risia yet have you? 3 barrel cove is pretty darn close to the size of the Orchard now. Its signicficantly more impresive than Searing Heights, Cerulean Hills and even Atraxias. It is defnatly a mod worthy explorer area.

I agree 3 barrel cove is huge and very well done, as I am sure the Subterrane will be as well. But #BC is mid level content, and the subterrane has no 6 man quests, it is strictly a raid area, so until mod 8 comes out we have very limited 6 man content at level cap which needs to be addressed, instead of 2 raids we should have had 1 raid and 3 to 4 more quests that were not pre reqs just 6 man quests that dropped random named loot like every other mod did. I think not putting named loot in the vale and strictly relying on the crafting aspects of the Shroud was a huge mistake, in that it guaranteed that the 6 man quests would be ghost towns, except when flagging, or collectiing ingredients, otherewise there was no point in running those quests. Poeple didn't run POP for flagging they ran it to get a Kardin's eye, its that simple

ArkoHighStar
05-29-2008, 07:06 PM
not a bad plan in response to what the community has been asking for. We asked for high level content some time ago and they are giving it to us.

Plenty of raids and crafting related stuff for us to do, now they add 2 more raids and a high level open area for 12 people. Next step would be to go back and fill in the gaps for mid and high levels. Work on lots of quests and release em all for mod 8 along with 1 raid and a level cap raise to 20. If thats how it goesit wont be so bad.

At this point after 3BC is implemented there shoudl be no reason to go back and add more mid level content, up to lvl 10 each lvl has an average of 15 queste while after lvl 10 it is about 5-6. At this point no more fillingin is required as there is enough content to get you into gianthold without a huge grind like there used to be.
High level content is not just raids, it is short and long quests that keep people busy. Only producing raids at this level means if you want to play a lot you need to have multiple characters, because unles you are willing to just to do one raid a night , you could have nights where you are unable to go into any raid because you are on a timer. Ironically enough this is one of the reasons why Tempest was considered the most popular raids, no prereqs,and it had no timer, so basically anybody could hop in, and is why 6 man quests are required, people need things they can do any night without worrying about timers etc.

Borror0
05-29-2008, 07:19 PM
So Monks and 2 raids isnt a big deal?

Not for a Module. Two raids and a class doesn't cut it.


as for 3 barrel cove... You havent been on Risia yet have you? 3 barrel cove is pretty darn close to the size of the Orchard now. Its signicficantly more impresive than Searing Heights, Cerulean Hills and even Atraxias. It is defnatly a mod worthy explorer area.

Ok, it's big.. so? Ther's still not much content in Module 7. Or in Module 6.


Module 1.0: Dragon's Vault
(Release date: 5 April, 2006)


Update 1.1: The Harbor
(Release date: 10 May, 2006 - 5 weeks later)


Update 1.2: Solo Enhancements
(Release date: 14 June, 2006 - 5 weeks later)


Module 2.0: Twilight Forge
(Release date: 12 July, 2006 - 4 weeks later)


Update 2.1: Litany of the Dead Part 1: The Necropolis
(Release date: 16 Aug, 2006 - 5 weeks later)


Update 2.2: Stormreach Under Siege!
(Release date: 20 Sep, 2006 - 5 weeks later)


Module 3.0: Demon Sands
(Release date: 25 Oct, 2006 - 5 weeks later)


Update 3.1: Evil Resurgent
(Release date: 13 Dec, 2006 - 7 weeks later)


Update 3.2: Litany of the Dead Part 2
(Release date: 24 Jan, 2007 - 6 weeks later)


Update 3.3: Academy Training
(Release date: 12 Mar, 2007 - 6 weeks and 5 days later)


Module 4.0: Reaver's Bane
(Release date: 12 Apr, 2007 - 4 weeks and 3 days later)


Update 4.1: Mark of the Dragon
(Release date: 22 May, 2007 - 5 weeks and 5 days later)


Update 4.2: Searing Heights
(Release date: 18 Jul, 2007 - 8 weeks and 1 day later)


Module 5.0: Accursed Ascension
(Release date: 27 Sep, 2007 - 10 weeks and 1 day later)


Module 6.0: The Thirteenth Eclipse
(Release date: 30 Jan, 2008 - 17 weeks and 6 days later)


Module 7.0: The Way of the Monk
(Release date: 3 Jun, 2008 - 16 weeks and 6 days later)


You'll see that all the previous modules took less time for more content overall. From Module 3.3 to Module 4.0, there was 3 days more than between Module 5 and Module 6. Besides, Module 3 was a level cap increase, Module 5 was not.

salmag
05-29-2008, 07:27 PM
I know a lot of people are clamoring and begging for more High-level content, but I have to ask:

What good is more high level content without a level cap increase? I have two capped characters that I more or less run loot runs with (damn that elusive bloodstone), and several mid level characters that I more or less take out after I ransack loot run chests (again damn that elusive bloodstone). I would be all for giving us more classes, races, and things to do (like crafting, housing) while waiting for a cap increase and higher level quests.

Gianthold, and the Menachtaraun Desert set the bar pretty high for additional content. The Orchard is big but pales in comparison to those that came before it. The Vale is a step backward.

BRING IN GNOMES, HALF-ORCS, HALF-ELVES, KALASHTAR AND DRUIDS (psionics) AND LET US JOURNEY TO KHORVAIRE, THE TALENTA PLAINS, ETC...

ArkoHighStar
05-29-2008, 07:34 PM
I know a lot of people are clamoring and begging for more High-level content, but I have to ask:

What good is more high level content without a level cap increase? I have two capped characters that I more or less run loot runs with (damn that elusive bloodstone), and several mid level characters that I more or less take out after I ransack loot run chests (again damn that elusive bloodstone). I would be all for giving us more classes, races, and things to do (like crafting, housing) while waiting for a cap increase and higher level quests.

Gianthold, and the Menachtaraun Desert set the bar pretty high for additional content. The Orchard is big but pales in comparison to those that came before it. The Vale is a step backward.

BRING IN GNOMES, HALF-ORCS, HALF-ELVES, KALASHTAR AND DRUIDS (psionics) AND LET US JOURNEY TO KHORVAIRE, THE TALENTA PLAINS, ETC...

The further along we get, the harder it is for long time players to reroll again or create new ones without having to delete, because they already have maxxed out the number of characters they can play, while monk will keep some busy, for many the end game is all they wish to play, otherwisw they wouldn't be powerleveing characters in under a week.The game for new players or players making their 2nd or third characters is in very good shape with the addition of 3BC, but it leaves us with the same content for another 4 months.
edit: also mod 8 if they include the level cap will be lvl 17-18 or lvls 17-20. This presents us with a problem, as we will be less interested in lvl 16 quests and will want lvl 18 quests to go along with our new lvl cap, so the lvl15-16 space will have very little content, which means Turbine will at some point have to come back when we are at lvl 20+ and fill it in to keep newer players happy, which means time is taken away for new highest level content.

Gratch
05-29-2008, 07:37 PM
You'll see that all the previous modules took less time for more content overall. From Module 3.3 to Module 4.0, there was 3 days more than between Module 5 and Module 6. Besides, Module 3 was a level cap increase, Module 5 was not.

Mod 5 did have an updated gfx engine (lots of borrowing from LotRO I believe) which caused a number of bugs and some of the delay to that release. We'll probably hit the same delay when they add DX10 and other engine updates later (I would guess this year, but so far devs have just said, DX10 is planned for DDO but with no timeframe).

Qzipoun
05-29-2008, 07:38 PM
I know a lot of people are clamoring and begging for more High-level content, but I have to ask:

What good is more high level content without a level cap increase?


It's the difference between running Let Sleeping Dust Lie for the 100th time and NewQuestX for the 1st time. Sure i'm not getting xp out of it... but i'm getting FUN out of it.


I'm still waiting to see that "Less updates, but more content." in action.

That was a confirmed typo. They meant "Less content, but more time between updates".

salmag
05-29-2008, 07:41 PM
Not for a Module. Two raids and a class doesn't cut it.
Ok, it's big.. so? Ther's still not much content in Module 7. Or in Module 6.

Module 1.0: Dragon's Vault
(Release date: 5 April, 2006)
Update 1.1: The Harbor
(Release date: 10 May, 2006 - 5 weeks later)
Update 1.2: Solo Enhancements
(Release date: 14 June, 2006 - 5 weeks later)
Module 2.0: Twilight Forge
(Release date: 12 July, 2006 - 4 weeks later)
Update 2.1: Litany of the Dead Part 1: The Necropolis
(Release date: 16 Aug, 2006 - 5 weeks later)
Update 2.2: Stormreach Under Siege!
(Release date: 20 Sep, 2006 - 5 weeks later)
Module 3.0: Demon Sands
(Release date: 25 Oct, 2006 - 5 weeks later)
Update 3.1: Evil Resurgent
(Release date: 13 Dec, 2006 - 7 weeks later)
Update 3.2: Litany of the Dead Part 2
(Release date: 24 Jan, 2007 - 6 weeks later)
Update 3.3: Academy Training
(Release date: 12 Mar, 2007 - 6 weeks and 5 days later)
Module 4.0: Reaver's Bane
(Release date: 12 Apr, 2007 - 4 weeks and 3 days later)
Update 4.1: Mark of the Dragon
(Release date: 22 May, 2007 - 5 weeks and 5 days later)
Update 4.2: Searing Heights
(Release date: 18 Jul, 2007 - 8 weeks and 1 day later)
Module 5.0: Accursed Ascension
(Release date: 27 Sep, 2007 - 10 weeks and 1 day later)
Module 6.0: The Thirteenth Eclipse
(Release date: 30 Jan, 2008 - 17 weeks and 6 days later)
Module 7.0: The Way of the Monk
(Release date: 3 Jun, 2008 - 16 weeks and 6 days later)

You'll see that all the previous modules took less time for more content overall. From Module 3.3 to Module 4.0, there was 3 days more than between Module 5 and Module 6. Besides, Module 3 was a level cap increase, Module 5 was not.

During this time period, when did LOTRO come out?

salmag
05-29-2008, 07:44 PM
It's the difference between running Let Sleeping Dust Lie for the 100th time and NewQuestX for the 1st time. Sure i'm not getting xp out of it... but i'm getting FUN out of it.



That was a confirmed typo. They meant "Less content, but more time between updates".

True.

Borror0
05-29-2008, 07:48 PM
During this time period, when did LOTRO come out?

April 24, 2007

As per wikipedia: "A closed beta was announced on September 8, 2006. An open beta began on March 30, 2007, and was open to all who pre-ordered the game's Founders Club edition. On April 6, 2007, the beta opened to the public", for all that matters.

Auran82
05-29-2008, 08:08 PM
April 24, 2007

As per wikipedia: "A closed beta was announced on September 8, 2006. An open beta began on March 30, 2007, and was open to all who pre-ordered the game's Founders Club edition. On April 6, 2007, the beta opened to the public", for all that matters.

* Module 1.0: Dragon's Vault
o (Release date: 5 April, 2006)
* Update 1.1: The Harbor
o (Release date: 10 May, 2006 - 5 weeks later)
* Update 1.2: Solo Enhancements
o (Release date: 14 June, 2006 - 5 weeks later)
* Module 2.0: Twilight Forge
o (Release date: 12 July, 2006 - 4 weeks later)
* Update 2.1: Litany of the Dead Part 1: The Necropolis
o (Release date: 16 Aug, 2006 - 5 weeks later)
* Update 2.2: Stormreach Under Siege!
o (Release date: 20 Sep, 2006 - 5 weeks later)
* Module 3.0: Demon Sands
o (Release date: 25 Oct, 2006 - 5 weeks later)
* Update 3.1: Evil Resurgent
o (Release date: 13 Dec, 2006 - 7 weeks later)
* Update 3.2: Litany of the Dead Part 2
o (Release date: 24 Jan, 2007 - 6 weeks later)
* Update 3.3: Academy Training
o (Release date: 12 Mar, 2007 - 6 weeks and 5 days later)
* Module 4.0: Reaver's Bane
o (Release date: 12 Apr, 2007 - 4 weeks and 3 days later)

--- LOTRO released April 24, 2007 ---

* Update 4.1: Mark of the Dragon
o (Release date: 22 May, 2007 - 5 weeks and 5 days later)
* Update 4.2: Searing Heights
o (Release date: 18 Jul, 2007 - 8 weeks and 1 day later)
* Module 5.0: Accursed Ascension
o (Release date: 27 Sep, 2007 - 10 weeks and 1 day later)
* Module 6.0: The Thirteenth Eclipse
o (Release date: 30 Jan, 2008 - 17 weeks and 6 days later)
* Module 7.0: The Way of the Monk
o (Release date: 3 Jun, 2008 - 16 weeks and 6 days later)

Is it just me or did the 'less updates, more content' policy come into place soon after and the space between updates start getting bigger.

*puts on tin foil hat*

Magnyr_Delorn
05-29-2008, 08:56 PM
* Module 1.0: Dragon's Vault
o (Release date: 5 April, 2006)
* Update 1.1: The Harbor
o (Release date: 10 May, 2006 - 5 weeks later)
* Update 1.2: Solo Enhancements
o (Release date: 14 June, 2006 - 5 weeks later)
* Module 2.0: Twilight Forge
o (Release date: 12 July, 2006 - 4 weeks later)
* Update 2.1: Litany of the Dead Part 1: The Necropolis
o (Release date: 16 Aug, 2006 - 5 weeks later)
* Update 2.2: Stormreach Under Siege!
o (Release date: 20 Sep, 2006 - 5 weeks later)
* Module 3.0: Demon Sands
o (Release date: 25 Oct, 2006 - 5 weeks later)
* Update 3.1: Evil Resurgent
o (Release date: 13 Dec, 2006 - 7 weeks later)
* Update 3.2: Litany of the Dead Part 2
o (Release date: 24 Jan, 2007 - 6 weeks later)
* Update 3.3: Academy Training
o (Release date: 12 Mar, 2007 - 6 weeks and 5 days later)
* Module 4.0: Reaver's Bane
o (Release date: 12 Apr, 2007 - 4 weeks and 3 days later)

--- LOTRO released April 24, 2007 ---

* Update 4.1: Mark of the Dragon
o (Release date: 22 May, 2007 - 5 weeks and 5 days later)
* Update 4.2: Searing Heights
o (Release date: 18 Jul, 2007 - 8 weeks and 1 day later)
* Module 5.0: Accursed Ascension
o (Release date: 27 Sep, 2007 - 10 weeks and 1 day later)
* Module 6.0: The Thirteenth Eclipse
o (Release date: 30 Jan, 2008 - 17 weeks and 6 days later)
* Module 7.0: The Way of the Monk
o (Release date: 3 Jun, 2008 - 16 weeks and 6 days later)

Is it just me or did the 'less updates, more content' policy come into place soon after and the space between updates start getting bigger.

*puts on tin foil hat*

I wish I could fit this as my sig, word for word as written...

lasra
05-29-2008, 09:32 PM
* Module 1.0: Dragon's Vault
o (Release date: 5 April, 2006)
* Update 1.1: The Harbor
o (Release date: 10 May, 2006 - 5 weeks later)
* Update 1.2: Solo Enhancements
o (Release date: 14 June, 2006 - 5 weeks later)
* Module 2.0: Twilight Forge
o (Release date: 12 July, 2006 - 4 weeks later)
* Update 2.1: Litany of the Dead Part 1: The Necropolis
o (Release date: 16 Aug, 2006 - 5 weeks later)
* Update 2.2: Stormreach Under Siege!
o (Release date: 20 Sep, 2006 - 5 weeks later)
* Module 3.0: Demon Sands
o (Release date: 25 Oct, 2006 - 5 weeks later)
* Update 3.1: Evil Resurgent
o (Release date: 13 Dec, 2006 - 7 weeks later)
* Update 3.2: Litany of the Dead Part 2
o (Release date: 24 Jan, 2007 - 6 weeks later)
* Update 3.3: Academy Training
o (Release date: 12 Mar, 2007 - 6 weeks and 5 days later)
* Module 4.0: Reaver's Bane
o (Release date: 12 Apr, 2007 - 4 weeks and 3 days later)

--- LOTRO released April 24, 2007 ---

* Update 4.1: Mark of the Dragon
o (Release date: 22 May, 2007 - 5 weeks and 5 days later)
* Update 4.2: Searing Heights
o (Release date: 18 Jul, 2007 - 8 weeks and 1 day later)
* Module 5.0: Accursed Ascension
o (Release date: 27 Sep, 2007 - 10 weeks and 1 day later)
* Module 6.0: The Thirteenth Eclipse
o (Release date: 30 Jan, 2008 - 17 weeks and 6 days later)
* Module 7.0: The Way of the Monk
o (Release date: 3 Jun, 2008 - 16 weeks and 6 days later)

Is it just me or did the 'less updates, more content' policy come into place soon after and the space between updates start getting bigger.

*puts on tin foil hat*

And yet another way to look at it....

Mod 1.0 5-April-2006
Mod 2.0 12-July-2006 (12 weeks later)
Mod 3.0 25-October-2006 (15 weeks later)
Mod 4.0 12-April-2007 (24 weeks, 1 day later)
Mod 5.0 27-September-2007 (24 weeks later)
Mod 6.0 30-January-2008 (17 weeks, 6 days later)
Mod 7.0 3-June-2008 (16 weeks, 6 days later)

So technically speaking, we are getting the full Mods 6.0 and 7.0 at 6-7 weeks faster than the full mods 4.0 and 5.0, although granted, with nothing in between. It seems to me that it would make sense to have a full Mod development cyle to fit in the 15-18 week timeframe, with perhaps low/mid-level content releases in the 6-10 weeks "midway" point of the Mod cycle. It also appears that we are on track for 3 major releases in 2008, which is the same as in 2006 (and the development was simpler in 2006).

Another thing to consider is that "IF" Turbine is using less staff to develop than they did in the first year, and with the fewer resources are also having to add new classes, new monsters, new landscapes, etc. that it should take a little longer to get that accomplished. I am not saying nothing released between major Mods is cool, but some people could at least try and be a little more understanding of the time it takes to get things accomplished in a development cycle.

Borror0
05-29-2008, 09:55 PM
And yet another way to look at it....

Mod 1.0 5-April-2006
Mod 2.0 12-July-2006 (12 weeks later)
Mod 3.0 25-October-2006 (15 weeks later)
Mod 4.0 12-April-2007 (24 weeks, 1 day later)
Mod 5.0 27-September-2007 (24 weeks later)
Mod 6.0 30-January-2008 (17 weeks, 6 days later)
Mod 7.0 3-June-2008 (16 weeks, 6 days later)

So technically speaking, we are getting the full Mods 6.0 and 7.0 at 6-7 weeks faster than the full mods 4.0 and 5.0, although granted, with nothing in between.

Let's look at it this way too, then.

Module 1.0 - 16 quests, 1 raid
Module 2.0 - 14 quests, 1 raid
Module 3.0 - 21 quests, 1 raid
Module 4.0 - 13 quests, 1 raid, 4 explorer, 4 revamp of exisiting wilderness areas
Module 5.0 - 10 quests, 1 raid, 1 explorer
Module 6.0 - 5 quests, 1 raid, 1 explorer
Module 7.0 - 3 quests, 2 raids, 2 explorer

For more details. (http://ddo.enterwiki.net/page/Quests_by_update#Module_1.0:_Dragon.27s_Vault)

If you look at the number of quests in Module 3, it's normal we had a longer delay.
Turbine seem to have started having problems around 4.2 somehow...

CaseStringer
05-29-2008, 11:31 PM
I just have to respond... I think Turbine has been doing a decent job keeping us all entertained. IMO...I just don't understand why they ditched the most important aspect of classic 'PnP' D&D. Wandering Monster tables should have ALWAYS been a part of DDO. Especially in an instance where most people know/expect what's around the bend...4 Displacer Beasts wander upon said party would be like "Whoa!" (props to Hip-hop for that one)...If DDO used random Wandering Monster spawns, we would not always be underwhelmed be EXACTLY what we know is around the corner... I think they should add this promptly...IT would really spice up the content. From a DEVs perspective, how hard would this be to implement?!? Module 7 looks and plays really nice, TURBINE...Just never understood how Wandering Monster tables got nixxed from the game. ---->CASE!:cool:

DasLurch
05-30-2008, 12:46 AM
Mod 5 was Huge... Just as big, if not bigger than gianthold.

Mod 6 had a Level Cap increase so yeah, the number of Dungeons was lower. But the explorer area is huge. as is the Raid.

Mod 7 looks like it may have fewer "dungeons" but will have a ton of added content. 3-barrel Cove Exploerer Plus all the additinal Colect and Win quests that have been added.

Md 8 will most likely be another level cap raise, so I wouldnt get my hopes up on 10+ new dungeons.

I was reading through this thread and just couldn't get passed this. I can't believe that because there's a level cap you think there ought to be FEWWER quests added? I will admit that is starting to become a trend (and a bad one at that), but How are you supposed to get to the next level cap if there's nothing level appropriate to run? We're at a level 16 cap right now and we have a total of 5 quests, 2 raids (1 broken-ish), and a pre-raid that fall in the 15-16 range. This is how we get an update like the one we are about to get "qualified" as a Mod. We got as many quests in some of the mini updates, and those were all level appropriate at the time. It's a joke! And why are we all still considering these outdoor areas content? They are not in my mind. How often do you go searching through the ruins of Gianthold to a quest unless it's your 1st time? Do people really run to Meridia every time or just take the old blood taxi 99% of the time (/death)? Does anyone really actually TRY to complete anything other than the explorer quests in the outdoor areas? These areas are not content. They are time sinks. They can be fun. They may be pretty. They are not content. No favor is gained. No quest settings are applied. Outside of tapestries and a few named loots in the desert, no real good reason to run the chests in them. I would trade every one of them for 4-5 quests instead. It was a good idea that went wrong in my mind. If Mod 8 has fewwer quests as we've seen in the last 2 mods put together, I think that will probably be it for me.

I'm sorry but reading that post really got my blood up. We ought to expect MORE from our updates than we've been getting. I like what they add for the most part, but it seems that each one has gotten smaller since the desert to me.

ArkoHighStar
05-30-2008, 12:59 AM
I was reading through this thread and just couldn't get passed this. I can't believe that because there's a level cap you think there ought to be FEWWER quests added? I will admit that is starting to become a trend (and a bad one at that), but How are you supposed to get to the next level cap if there's nothing level appropriate to run? We're at a level 16 cap right now and we have a total of 5 quests, 2 raids (1 broken-ish), and a pre-raid that fall in the 15-16 range. This is how we get an update like the one we are about to get "qualified" as a Mod. We got as many quests in some of the mini updates, and those were all level appropriate at the time. It's a joke! And why are we all still considering these outdoor areas content? They are not in my mind. How often do you go searching through the ruins of Gianthold to a quest unless it's your 1st time? Do people really run to Meridia every time or just take the old blood taxi 99% of the time (/death)? Does anyone really actually TRY to complete anything other than the explorer quests in the outdoor areas? These areas are not content. They are time sinks. They can be fun. They may be pretty. They are not content. No favor is gained. No quest settings are applied. Outside of tapestries and a few named loots in the desert, no real good reason to run the chests in them. I would trade every one of them for 4-5 quests instead. It was a good idea that went wrong in my mind. If Mod 8 has fewwer quests as we've seen in the last 2 mods put together, I think that will probably be it for me.

I'm sorry but reading that post really got my blood up. We ought to expect MORE from our updates than we've been getting. I like what they add for the most part, but it seems that each one has gotten smaller since the desert to me.

I agree while the outdoor areas are nice and when done with named loot like in the desert and the tapestries in the vale it has extended value, but without those things it is just something you have to run through to get to the quests. Look at gianthold, once you get explorer and rare, unless you are willing to grind for days on slayer you are essentially done in there.I think they have the most value at the lower levels where you are more likely to be caught in a situation without a group so doing some adventure area stuff is a reat time sink. At cap though people want quests and raids, not just raids, but a combination of both

thatguy
05-30-2008, 07:15 AM
Mod 5 was Huge... Just as big, if not bigger than gianthold.

Mod 6 had a Level Cap increase so yeah, the number of Dungeons was lower. But the explorer area is huge. as is the Raid.

Mod 7 looks like it may have fewer "dungeons" but will have a ton of added content. 3-barrel Cove Exploerer Plus all the additinal Colect and Win quests that have been added.

Md 8 will most likely be another level cap raise, so I wouldnt get my hopes up on 10+ new dungeons.

I sure hope mod 8 has a cap increase, that is the thing I look forward to most in the game.

dragnmoon
05-30-2008, 07:28 AM
Let's look at it this way too, then.

Module 1.0 - 16 quests, 1 raid
Module 2.0 - 14 quests, 1 raid
Module 3.0 - 21 quests, 1 raid
Module 4.0 - 13 quests, 1 raid, 4 explorer, 4 revamp of exisiting wilderness areas
Module 5.0 - 10 quests, 1 raid, 1 explorer
Module 6.0 - 5 quests, 1 raid, 1 explorer
Module 7.0 - 3 quests, 2 raids, 2 explorer

For more details. (http://ddo.enterwiki.net/page/Quests_by_update#Module_1.0:_Dragon.27s_Vault)

If you look at the number of quests in Module 3, it's normal we had a longer delay.
Turbine seem to have started having problems around 4.2 somehow...


Yeah I went through this awhile back, It is obvious as we go along we get less content vs the time put into each Mod. I am curious why this is true.. but we will never know..

It is not even the quests, it is also the Feats, Enhancements (Though Mod 7 has a good amount) and spells... the Spells are the most obvious..

In mod 3 when we went up to level 12 they added ~46 Spells to support the level increase, in Mod 4 when we went to level 14 they added ~49 spells to support the level increase, for Mod 6 we got ~17 spells to support the level increase.... what the hell happened there? And there was not even a good selection of spells.

Borror0
05-30-2008, 07:53 AM
am curious why this is true.

Me too.


It is not even the quests, it is also the Feats, Enhancements (Though Mod 7 has a good amount) and spells... the Spells are the most obvious..

Yeah, I was about to do that... but that's more time consuming. I think I got my point clear. ;)


In mod 3 when we went up to level 12 they added ~46 Spells to support the level increase, in Mod 4 when we went to level 14 they added ~49 spells to support the level increase, for Mod 6 we got ~17 spells to support the level increase.... what the hell happened there? And there was not even a good selection of spells.

They said it's because there was not many good level 8 spells... we'll see with level 9s?:confused:

RazorrX
05-30-2008, 08:02 AM
Let's look at it this way too, then.

Module 1.0 - 16 quests, 1 raid
Module 2.0 - 14 quests, 1 raid
Module 3.0 - 21 quests, 1 raid
Module 4.0 - 13 quests, 1 raid, 4 explorer, 4 revamp of exisiting wilderness areas
Module 5.0 - 10 quests, 1 raid, 1 explorer
Module 6.0 - 5 quests, 1 raid, 1 explorer
Module 7.0 - 3 quests, 2 raids, 2 explorer

To be fair, one of the explorers is a Raid Explorer. That makes the list actually, 3 quests, 3 raids and 1 explorer Plus 1 Class. That seems to be quite a prolific mod release actually.

For more details. (http://ddo.enterwiki.net/page/Quests_by_update#Module_1.0:_Dragon.27s_Vault)

If you look at the number of quests in Module 3, it's normal we had a longer delay.
Turbine seem to have started having problems around 4.2 somehow...

I can get behind the fact that things have slacked off as far as content goes, but when you look at the fact that they have increased levels thus adding feats, enhancements, spells, items, etc. It is not really *that* bad. Less, yes, but not really that bad.

Mod 7 has a whole class added to the game. That took a HUGE amount of work to do. If you look at it, Mod 7 has way more content than mod 5 or 6 did, just not more quests.

Also, I bet it takes a lot more work to do the big explorer areas than a short quest. I for one, love the Explorer areas, and am very happy to see them in game.

dragnmoon
05-30-2008, 08:09 AM
They said it's because there was not many good level 8 spells... we'll see with level 9s?:confused:

Never seen anyone at Turbine say that... And it is not even true...there are plenty!

Look here (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=97458)

MrWizard
05-30-2008, 08:10 AM
some interesting reading.

yes, each mod that comes out does come with the forum activity wanting new classes, more high level content, and doom stuff.

I guess my intent was in noticing more and more of a shift towards the raid being the centerpiece of a mod while dungeons are a 'flagging' run up.

I noticed in mod 5, for the first time, that the majority of people did not run the 4 high level dungeons on elite. They were also hard to shortman. I would assume they no longer wanted solo artists or 'easy' loot runs. Many went back to gianthold. Most never raided the abbot. Sure, some went nuts and had a good time, but it was more tedious and less fun for others.

Mod 6 had some hard dungeons that are also quite difficult to solo, lowbie, or shortman for a large percentage of people. And with the dungeons being harder, it seemed like the challenge was there for min/maxers and some builds had serious trouble.


But back to my intent.

It just seems that the raids are, except for tempest spine, meant to be a challenging puzzle, and are quite hard until people figure them out. After that they become a boring affair of 'the same ol, same ol". And in the case of the shroud that is amplified with crafting as a reason to just run the same thing over and over and over and over again.

It would seem to me that turbine has concluded that raids are the way to go, with some support dungeons. The next mod actually has the entire server trying to open them up and is completely centered on the two raids. Long raids or not, they are said to be like the other ones and not a tempest spine kind of adventure. I do not look forward to it.

I think turbine has gotten from its player base that the raids is what they want. I just wanted to speak for some of us that find the raids quite tedious and rather unrealistic in the sense of grand adventure. (How adventurous is the reaver for you?)

I liked the days when someone went into a dungeon (like invaders) solo or short manned and came out on top. I liked the days when a large number of high level dungeons came out at once (like gianthold) and we spent a lot of time crawling and experiencing them.

I like the idea of logging in one day and finding an outdoor area 5 times the size of the vale, with 40 dungeons scattered through out. Named chests in the outdoor area. Dungeons that mean nothing to the story line but were made for adventure and fun. Short ones, long ones, insane ones, random ones.

Although it is fun to run the same exact material over and over, I find it gets boring after a while. I like to watch some movies, but how many times can I watch them before I put the dvd away forever.

I just want turbine to know there are some of us that desire dungeon crawling. I wish they had a team of a few guys/gals that just churned out dungeons all day. One or two a week. Not part of some big story line, but new and fun adventures.

After years of playing I learned that all that hard work they put in the big story line quests and high level content is incredible. But as soon as the cap is raised, people move on. Some earlier mods are just favor runs now. And then there is the raids. People still do them and maybe that is why turbine is going that direction. Old mod raids are still being used and that must mean something.

I think it means we like getting fat loot and playing with more than 6 people. I think turbine thinks the player base would rather have that type of experience all the time and get away from dungeon crawling.

I for one say I want dungeons. I want to dungeon crawl. I do not want to have to be uber and have an uber build. I want to be able to have gimped characters and still have fun even at high levels. I would love to have 20 dungeons, new dungeons, every month...

New dungeons do not mean having to build new monsters or new graphics. Just a new layout with a new setup. Class specific ones are sometimes fun too. Dungeons do not alwyas have to be an insane challenge and can sometimes be easy.

It would be great if a few devs could just sit there and bang out some dungeons using some system where they just add tunnels, set ambushes and traps, add chests, and then add it in an update.

But, as in the original post, it seems turbine is concentrating on a raid style system for the future. They need to make money and if that works for them, then they gotta do it. I understand.

I honestly have more fun leveling my toon now because I get to do dungeons...and there are quite a few low level ones. Just wish all my capped toons had new dungeons to go through.


One day DDO will have like 1000 or so dungeons years from now. It will be quite cool I am sure. But I will still be bored with the raids (except tempest...which is the only riad without raid loot by the way).

just hoping for dungeons in mod 8..but not holding my breath.

Aspenor
05-30-2008, 08:12 AM
Just to be picky, monks = content, in the most literal sense.

Same as crafting recipes = content, and new enhancements = content.

Inkblack
05-30-2008, 08:18 AM
And yet another way to look at it....

Mod 1.0 5-April-2006
Mod 2.0 12-July-2006 (12 weeks later)
Mod 3.0 25-October-2006 (15 weeks later)
Mod 4.0 12-April-2007 (24 weeks, 1 day later)
Mod 5.0 27-September-2007 (24 weeks later)
Mod 6.0 30-January-2008 (17 weeks, 6 days later)
Mod 7.0 3-June-2008 (16 weeks, 6 days later)

<snip>

Let's look at it this way too, then.

Module 1.0 - 16 quests, 1 raid
Module 2.0 - 14 quests, 1 raid
Module 3.0 - 21 quests, 1 raid
Module 4.0 - 13 quests, 1 raid, 4 explorer, 4 revamp of exisiting wilderness areas
Module 5.0 - 10 quests, 1 raid, 1 explorer
Module 6.0 - 5 quests, 1 raid, 1 explorer
Module 7.0 - 3 quests, 2 raids, 2 explorer

For more details. (http://ddo.enterwiki.net/page/Quests_by_update#Module_1.0:_Dragon.27s_Vault)

If you look at the number of quests in Module 3, it's normal we had a longer delay.
Turbine seem to have started having problems around 4.2 somehow...

This information (basically Borror0's post with the quote included) says a lot about DDO.

I'm sure Turbine has a business plan, and it is more than likely very financially sound. For the subscriber base they have, they can assign x number of devs full time. However, that number is probably a lot lower than we think, somewhere around 5-7 Full Time Equivalents (or 10-14 people working half time on DDO). I'm guessing that there used to be more people assigned, but after roughly one year of release the number of FTE's was reduced based on the subscriber count. Basically the devs that are left can only do so much, that is why the content has decreased.

That is my opinion, whatever that is worth. I do know that Wizards of the Coast expected Turbine to have more content out, including expansion to other continents. (I can't reveal sources, you'll have to file this as an unsubstantiated rumor). I'm guessing that DDO wasn't the huge mega-hit Turbine (or WotC) expected, and that is the indirect reason for the reduced content.

Turbine's first priority is to make money, as it should be. I think we can gripe all we want, but we won't see an increase in the number of quests per mod. Other things are higher priority, like new classes, crafting, and races. I suspect that is because they will create a longer playing experience (taking a monk through 16 levels will last much longer than running 10 new quests, even on 9 characters).

Ink

Deragoth
05-30-2008, 08:28 AM
This information (basically Borror0's post with the quote included) says a lot about DDO.

I'm sure Turbine has a business plan, and it is more than likely very financially sound. For the subscriber base they have, they can assign x number of devs full time. However, that number is probably a lot lower than we think, somewhere around 5-7 Full Time Equivalents (or 10-14 people working half time on DDO). I'm guessing that there used to be more people assigned, but after roughly one year of release the number of FTE's was reduced based on the subscriber count. Basically the devs that are left can only do so much, that is why the content has decreased.

That is my opinion, whatever that is worth. I do know that Wizards of the Coast expected Turbine to have more content out, including expansion to other continents. (I can't reveal sources, you'll have to file this as an unsubstantiated rumor). I'm guessing that DDO wasn't the huge mega-hit Turbine (or WotC) expected, and that is the indirect reason for the reduced content.

Turbine's first priority is to make money, as it should be. I think we can gripe all we want, but we won't see an increase in the number of quests per mod. Other things are higher priority, like new classes, crafting, and races. I suspect that is because they will create a longer playing experience (taking a monk through 16 levels will last much longer than running 10 new quests, even on 9 characters).

Ink

Well said.

dragnmoon
05-30-2008, 08:29 AM
That is my opinion, whatever that is worth. I do know that Wizards of the Coast expected Turbine to have more content out, including expansion to other continents. (I can't reveal sources, you'll have to file this as an unsubstantiated rumor). I'm guessing that DDO wasn't the huge mega-hit Turbine (or WotC) expected, and that is the indirect reason for the reduced content.

Turbine stated something similar recently on the wishes from WotC


Turbine's first priority is to make money, as it should be. I think we can gripe all we want, but we won't see an increase in the number of quests per mod. Other things are higher priority, like new classes, crafting, and races. I suspect that is because they will create a longer playing experience (taking a monk through 16 levels will last much longer than running 10 new quests, even on 9 characters).

Ink

I think it is the biggest thing... A Change on shift of priorities.. I think all the things they are adding are important to the game.. But their priorities have shifted from what it used to be on what they added in a Mod, and I personally enjoyed the past more then the now.

A good example of that was Mod 6, I think on a Mod that raises the levels should prioritize the support of those levels which includes Spells, enhancements and feats but instead they prioritized the beginning of a new crafting system, I think the crafting system should have waited until a Mod with out a Level increase....

And I hate to say this.. it does seem they may have less developers on DDO now.. or Some of thier very gifted ones moved on and the new ones are just not as familiar with the programming as the old ones.

Riddikulus
05-30-2008, 08:36 AM
Yeah I went through this awhile back, It is obvious as we go along we get less content vs the time put into each Mod. I am curious why this is true.. but we will never know.
I don't know why this is even a topic for discussion.

There is less or similar content coming out at a much slower pace because they have reduced their development staff to match the subscription revenue coming in... e.g. 11 servers->5 servers, 5 weeks->11 weeks. ;)

Several people also left for greener pastures (Eck and HSinclair come to mind) which couldn't have been good for the development momentum.

So absent a large increase in subscriptions this will likely be the amount of content we will see coming in for the foreseeable future.

dragnmoon
05-30-2008, 08:40 AM
I don't know why this is even a topic for discussion.

There is less or similar content coming out at a much slower pace because they have reduced their development staff to match the subscription revenue coming in... e.g. 11 servers->5 servers, 5 weeks->11 weeks. ;)

Several people also left for greener pastures (Eck and HSinclair come to mind) which couldn't have been good for the development momentum.

So absent a large increase in subscriptions this will likely be the amount of content we will see coming in for the foreseeable future.


I keep throwing out that quote that Kate said they went to the new Dev schedule to be able to put out larger mods all at once then in little pieces...

Anyone even remember where she said that?

Borror0
05-30-2008, 08:40 AM
To be fair, one of the explorers is a Raid Explorer. That makes the list actually, 3 quests, 3 raids and 1 explorer Plus 1 Class. That seems to be quite a prolific mod release actually.

Not so much. I doubt the explorer has the complexity of a raid.

And, to be quite honest, making a huge explorer zone doesn't count for a quest to me. Do you ever tell yourself "Hey, I'll go in the Vale to pointlessly kill stuff without any sense of accomplishment"? The desert and the Orchard are the closest to successful they got with those... but they're not so fun at end game. Well, not to the point of making it HUGE if it's going to take away from normal quests.


I can get behind the fact that things have slacked off as far as content goes, but when you look at the fact that they have increased levels thus adding feats, enhancements, spells, items, etc. It is not really *that* bad. Less, yes, but not really that bad.

There is a drastic drop in the number of spells, feats and enhancements out. Module 3 had by itself a total of 53 spells (if I didn't count wrong) and Update 3.3 had a total enhancement revamp!:eek: And to be honest, yes, it's that bad simply because D&D is all about spells, enhancements and feats. If you can't even make a level cap with enough spells... (Most of cleric's level 8 are bugged.)


Also, I bet it takes a lot more work to do the big explorer areas than a short quest. I for one, love the Explorer areas, and am very happy to see them in game.


I think we got more for our money on short quests than explorers...

Borror0
05-30-2008, 08:44 AM
Anyone even remember where she said that?

Nope, but that's one of her numberous mis-speaks. She meant they'll put the larger mods at once, without the (equivalent of the) little pieces.

ArkoHighStar
05-30-2008, 08:45 AM
I don't know why this is even a topic for discussion.

There is less or similar content coming out at a much slower pace because they have reduced their development staff to match the subscription revenue coming in... e.g. 11 servers->5 servers, 5 weeks->11 weeks. ;)

Several people also left for greener pastures (Eck and HSinclair come to mind) which couldn't have been good for the development momentum.

So absent a large increase in subscriptions this will likely be the amount of content we will see coming in for the foreseeable future.

It was also confirmed that at one point at least one dev was transferred to LOTRO but has since returned. It is hard to say how much the dev team has shrunk, but one can see a shift in dev priorities, from producing end level content, to shoring up the lower levels and making the game more casual friendly. It seems Turbine is basing design decisions on exit interviews and not on those left behind. They seem to be trying to hit all the points that people who left the game made in an effort to expand DDO's appeal

RazorrX
05-30-2008, 08:48 AM
Not so much. I doubt the explorer has the complexity of a raid.

And, to be quite honest, making a huge explorer zone doesn't count for a quest to me. Do you ever tell yourself "Hey, I'll go in the Vale to pointlessly kill stuff without any sense of accomplishment"? The desert and the Orchard are the closest to successful they got with those... but they're not so fun at end game. Well, not to the point of making it HUGE if it's going to take away from normal quests.

I do actually. :) I run the explore areas often with my characters, sometimes just to loot run but often to explore every bit of it.




There is a drastic drop in the number of spells, feats and enhancements out. Module 3 had by itself a total of 53 spells (if I didn't count wrong) and Update 3.3 had a total enhancement revamp!:eek: And to be honest, yes, it's that bad simply because D&D is all about spells, enhancements and feats. If you can't even make a level cap with enough spells... (Most of cleric's level 8 are bugged.)

Well to be technical, D&D is not about enhancements, that is just a DDO thing but I understand what you are saying. What I am saying is that they have with Mod 7 Released a HUGE amount of content. I do not know how much it took for the crafting (I Have yet to craft anything btw, it just does not attract me yet), but I am sure it took a bit to do as well.

Also those two updates (3 and 3.3) took place when we had a much larger subscriber base.



I think we got more for our money on short quests than explorers...


We just have different opinions there, I love dungeons, etc, but I also really love the explore areas as well.

Borror0
05-30-2008, 08:54 AM
I do actually. :) I run the explore areas often with my characters, sometimes just to loot run but often to explore every bit of it.

I could be wrong, but from what I know, you're part of a minority.



Well to be technical, D&D is not about enhancements, that is just a DDO thing but I understand what you are saying. What I am saying is that they have with Mod 7 Released a HUGE amount of content. I do not know how much it took for the crafting (I Have yet to craft anything btw, it just does not attract me yet), but I am sure it took a bit to do as well.

Also those two updates (3 and 3.3) took place when we had a much larger subscriber base.


Crafting isn't content, it's grinding.
There's no fun to have in crafting.

MysticTheurge
05-30-2008, 08:59 AM
Crafting isn't content, it's grinding.
There's no fun to have in crafting.

For you.

Borror0
05-30-2008, 09:00 AM
For you.

You'll enjoy going back into quests killing mobs to gather their collectibles until you can put the right enchantement on them?

dragnmoon
05-30-2008, 09:14 AM
For you.

NO CRAFTING FOR YOU! :D;):p

Josh
05-30-2008, 09:16 AM
Nope, but that's one of her numberous mis-speaks. She meant they'll put the larger mods at once, without the (equivalent of the) little pieces.

Prime example of why the game is where it is today. Lack of coherent leadership in the lead position. Look how ubah monks are beating up on desert gnolls!

Borror0
05-30-2008, 09:17 AM
Look how ubah monks are beating up on desert gnolls!

I don't know what's the coolest part betweem that it was taking sooo long for her to bring them down or "mobility is DPS"... -_-

Tenkari_Rozahas
05-30-2008, 09:20 AM
I remember when mod 7 was talked about as a mod that MIGHT include SOME low level content for new monks, now it's just a lowbie mod...


Everyone wants good new high level content, everyone except Turbine that is.

uhhh, two raids are not high level content?

Borror0
05-30-2008, 09:22 AM
uhhh, two raids are not high level content?

Not when you're on timer.;)

moorewr
05-30-2008, 09:45 AM
Mod 5 is actually a good model to follow - except the raid of course. Mod 5 was amazing to me, but the bad blood over the raid has spilled onto the rest of the content. Not that I'm wild about sloshing through cursed water or guiding rats through mazes, but the even so, that and the rest of the content was challenging and varied.

Mod 6 needed more quests. The whole thing just feels incomplete, as good as the five quests we got were. I am hoping the Mod 7 raids will be big romps like Tempest Spine, because otherwise my capped characters are going to be more or less on the shelf.. since I am not into the effort to do tier three upgrades in the shroud.

Mod 4 - quests: A - the gold standard, Pre-raid: A - gold again, Raid.. B. Fun and quick, but why isn't at the end of the Tor instead of a walk in quest?

Mod 5 - quests A - Tomb and Orchard. Really inventive, Pre-raid - B- I don't mind it but I don't look forward to it. And why do I have kill Kai Teng four times?, Raid - haven't been after all this time.

Mod 6 - quests B - good, but not enough of 'em, Raid B - five decent mini-raids. Whatevs.

I sure hope Mod 8's motto is "The Way of the Content," followed of course by Mod 9's: "Druids before Christmas."

Borror0
05-30-2008, 09:48 AM
I sure hope Mod 8's motto is "The Way of the Content," followed of course by Mod 9's: "Druids before Christmas."

I'd settle for that myself.

ahpook
05-30-2008, 09:54 AM
I agree MrWiz. I don't just want raids and as such this mod is shaping up to be disappointing. Since I also don't much care for the monk implementation I am not excited about rolling one up and levelling him until the next mod.


Mod 5 was Huge... Just as big, if not bigger than gianthold.

Mod 6 had a Level Cap increase so yeah, the number of Dungeons was lower. But the explorer area is huge. as is the Raid.

I doubt that the explorer area is much bigger than the giant hold explorer area. Much prettier though.



Mod 7 looks like it may have fewer "dungeons" but will have a ton of added content. 3-barrel Cove Exploerer Plus all the additinal Colect and Win quests that have been added.

I refuse to call the bounty quests content. Getting a bag to carry into the same dungeons is not content.

3BC however is gorgeous and very well done and the added quests in there are small but fun. It really breathes new life into that area. I just don't think we needed content at level 5 as much as at level 16.



Md 8 will most likely be another level cap raise, so I wouldnt get my hopes up on 10+ new dungeons.
Mod 4 was a level cap increase and included 10 6 man quests, an explorer area and the raid. So my hopes will stay up.

MrWizard
05-30-2008, 10:14 AM
and it is still better than WOW....even if they continue with the raid style content...

uncus2
05-30-2008, 10:29 AM
I remember when mod 7 was talked about as a mod that MIGHT include SOME low level content for new monks, now it's just a lowbie mod...


Everyone wants good new high level content, everyone except Turbine that is.

Nope, I'd rather have good mid-level content, so not "everybody." "Mid" can be a large range, I'd say 7-12, where characters hit the doldrums. I will agree that there should ALWAYS be at least 1-2 max level dungeons [not raids] in each Mod. Hopefully, Turbine hears most of the community calling for more max level content that is NOT a raid, just some good long, medium and short dungeons.

Magnyr_Delorn
05-30-2008, 10:36 AM
and it is still better than WOW

Yeah, and getting the flu is better than contracting AIDS. Your point?

This game should never be put together half-assed, then have people say, "Well, at least it is better than WoW!"

That isn't good enough for me, and that isn't good enough for DnD.

Riddikulus
05-30-2008, 10:47 AM
I could be wrong, but from what I know, you're part of a minority.
Check out the Bartle test. Different strokes for different folks. Leave out something that appeals to one of the 4 catagories and you are leaving out a portion of the gaming population. http://www.guildcafe.com/bartle.php


Crafting isn't content, it's grinding.
There's no fun to have in crafting.
In games like WoW crafting is completely optional... you can't craft stuff that's any better than what you can get from drops.

In games like DDO crafting looks like will be required to keep up with the Joneses. (e.g. Shroud) because the game will be scaled to include the better equipment you can craft from that raid.

In any case there is no required grind in WoW like the grind you need to do to qualify for the Reaver raid.


and it is still better than WOW....even if they continue with the raid style content...
Debatable. WoW has it's downfalls... lack of shield block, horde kiddies, a little heavy on the travel, and lots of kill X/fedex quests, but it has tons of good points... mounts, pets, lots of room to explore, random mobs to kill, optional crafting/resource gathering, a searchable auction house, guild banking, and eight different starting areas. Not to mention it is very polished, stable as a rock almost all the time, and there is very little lag even in large populations.


Nope, I'd rather have good mid-level content, so not "everybody." "Mid" can be a large range, I'd say 7-12, where characters hit the doldrums. I will agree that there should ALWAYS be at least 1-2 max level dungeons [not raids] in each Mod. Hopefully, Turbine hears most of the community calling for more max level content that is NOT a raid, just some good long, medium and short dungeons.
I'd rather Turbine released one quest for every level every module. I dread leveling up a monk in all the same quests all the way up.

VonBek
05-30-2008, 11:59 AM
I like the idea of logging in one day and finding an outdoor area 5 times the size of the vale, with 40 dungeons scattered through out. Named chests in the outdoor area. Dungeons that mean nothing to the story line but were made for adventure and fun. Short ones, long ones, insane ones, random ones.

You are not alone. That one section stands out for me. And, overall, I agree with your post.

We've been asking for quite a bit through wish lists, critiques, and more formal feedback collection for what seems a long time. Much of what I read in the WDAs and have been able to see of Mod 7 on Risia gives me hope. I've read posts by folks asking for quivers, an underground community, more quests, severely challenging quests, activities besides questing, a sense that Stormreach exists in a larger world, monks, and so on. That we're seeing some form of these requests gives me hope.

I'd like to see a bit more fun like this:

I for one say I want dungeons. I want to dungeon crawl. I do not want to have to be uber and have an uber build. I want to be able to have gimped characters and still have fun even at high levels. I would love to have 20 dungeons, new dungeons, every month...
find it's way back to the challenge.

MysticTheurge
05-30-2008, 01:14 PM
I've read posts by folks asking for ... more quests ... activities besides questing.

I too have heard those things.

And it's what cracks me up about this whole complaint.

dragnmoon
05-30-2008, 01:19 PM
I too have heard those things.

And it's what cracks me up about this whole complaint.

Mystic... We are not disagreeing with what they are putting out... just the Amount...

All the stuff they are adding is needed.... But there should be more based on the time it took to build it, compared to what we received in the past.

Obviously to me at least.. Something has changed at turbine that has caused smaller Mods to be produced.

fatherpirate
05-30-2008, 01:22 PM
Yeah, and getting the flu is better than contracting AIDS. Your point?

This game should never be put together half-assed, then have people say, "Well, at least it is better than WoW!"

That isn't good enough for me, and that isn't good enough for DnD.



AGREED
I hate hearing...at least it is better than (fill in the blank)

Maybe a structured aproach might be better

On Even number mods....just give us a bunch of Dungeons various levels..low..mid...high, no raids, just dungeons
On Odd number mods..new classses/outdoor areas/new races and of course new raids

That way we know what to expect...and all the bases get hit on a regular basis


Oh, and one more thing.

Stick a trial game disk in the new 4.0 D+D rule book....and in select D+D magazines
ADVERTISE ! PLEASE :-D

DelScorcho
05-30-2008, 01:24 PM
Personally, Mod 3 was my favorite. I've been disappointed in everything after Mod 4.

Agreed. The game was more balanced at that point, the missions were challenging, the spells were good - but not too good, AC and hitpoints were also more balanced. Plus, in addition to the 9 or so missions that were added, the 2d tier favor reward was also added. Mod 4 added alot of missions, but most people were capped before they finished all of them. I was away for mod 5, and I really haven't run all of the missions there, as there is no end game because of the broken raid. Mod 6 had some benefits, but far too few missions.

The other problem is back around the time of mod 3, we would receive regular updates that would add a few missions. Just prior to mod3, they added BAM and the one in the harbor. Just after mod 3, they did the Evil Resergent update that added 6 good missions.

GeneralDiomedes
05-30-2008, 01:31 PM
I'm still curious how people have 'proven' that the total development output has declined?

The last time a major non-quest system was introduced (mail, auction) in Mod 2, the number of quests fell off sharply.

dragnmoon
05-30-2008, 01:34 PM
I'm still curious how people have 'proven' that the total development output has declined?

The last time a major non-quest system was introduced (mail, auction) in Mod 2, the number of quests fell off sharply.

What about when they did a Total Revamp of Enhancements? in Mod 3?

Or the AI Upgrade in Mod 4?

Or the Graphics Upgrade in Mod 5?

GeneralDiomedes
05-30-2008, 01:37 PM
What about when they did a Total Revamp of Enhancements? in Mod 3?

Or the AI Upgrade in Mod 4?

Or the Graphics Upgrade in Mod 5?

- From their notes, I understand that the AI was interfacing with a 3rd party product that LOTRO already used.
- Graphics engine was also bolting on all or parts of the LOTRO engine.
- Enhancements were not part of a Mod, and there were 0 quests with that update

How many people did it take to program it, and how long did they take?

You don't know, do you?

So make your own conclusions I guess.

dragnmoon
05-30-2008, 01:45 PM
-
- Enhancements were not part of a Mod, and there were 0 quests with that update
.

We are including the Mini Mods in our figures... Because of the time scale of the new Development Cycle...

Take a look here (http://ddo.enterwiki.net/page/Category:Modules_and_updates) , though it is not perfect, if you go through the Mods you will see everything that has been added with each Mod...

Based on that, it seems like we are getting less now..

I think Getting less is obvious... Something tells me this is DDO's future for now...

Since I am not part of Turbine I can not say why.. But I have looked at what has been added in the past compared to the last 2 mods.. and It is very obvious that we are getting less across the board.

samagee
05-30-2008, 02:03 PM
Here are some ideas.

Make all quests able to be done as raids. In other words once the party leader changes the group to a raid, what ever dungeon they step in auto generates according to a template list. Meaning the traps are moved about, and the spawn differs as well as chest locations.

Make the ingredients a dropable item like the things you can collect off of dead bodies now.

Fix the content in game that exists, we keep providing a list.

At level 16 my sorc should be crafting some things like skill boost items. You know the ring of the rogue that gives pluses to skills, and that sort of thing. Personally one of the first things I make in D&D is a flying carpet.

MysticTheurge
05-30-2008, 02:27 PM
Mystic... We are not disagreeing with what they are putting out... just the Amount...

All the stuff they are adding is needed.... But there should be more based on the time it took to build it, compared to what we received in the past.

Obviously to me at least.. Something has changed at turbine that has caused smaller Mods to be produced.

So basically your complaint is either:

A) They're not hiring enough developers to work on the game (presumably because Turbine doesn't want to pay them)

or

B) The developers they have are slacking off and not doing their jobs.

And really, again, that's what amuses me. Because in neither of those cases does anyone posting to the forums have anything even remotely close to a complaint that's actually based in reality.

Look, everyone knows I'm one of DDO's biggest "fanboys" but the reality is, the production of a game is going to taper off a bit. DDO probably had a lot more subscribers in its first year than it does now. So basically, DDO is probably making less money than it used to. That means there are fewer people working on the game.

Which means we're not going to see another Mod 3.

Ever.

Get used to it.

Hafeal
05-30-2008, 02:58 PM
Let's look at it this way too, then.

Module 1.0 - 16 quests, 1 raid
Module 2.0 - 14 quests, 1 raid
Module 3.0 - 21 quests, 1 raid
Module 4.0 - 13 quests, 1 raid, 4 explorer, 4 revamp of exisiting wilderness areas
Module 5.0 - 10 quests, 1 raid, 1 explorer
Module 6.0 - 5 quests, 1 raid, 1 explorer
Module 7.0 - 3 quests, 2 raids, 2 explorer



Based on that, it seems like we are getting less now..

Look at this way, I think even Turbine knew DDO was launched without sufficient content. I think also that they had the content in development but just not ready for release. Thus your first three mods were a push to get the "already planned" content out.

Now, you have to go back to the drawing board for more stories and mods. Add in the departure of some of the early creative forces as well as a reduction in staff, yes there was a slow down. I think Turbine appears to have worked hard to fill the coffers again though and with 2 raids coming, and a large lower level area, I think they have pushed hard to make all segments happy.

The devs have said they expect many "power gamers" to try out monks and go through lower quests again. This will be a good opportunity for those players to check out much of the content they never played much as well the new stuff - rather than power-leveling to get to end game. ;)

fatherpirate
05-30-2008, 04:05 PM
So basically your complaint is either:

A) They're not hiring enough developers to work on the game (presumably because Turbine doesn't want to pay them)

or

B) The developers they have are slacking off and not doing their jobs.

And really, again, that's what amuses me. Because in neither of those cases does anyone posting to the forums have anything even remotely close to a complaint that's actually based in reality.

Look, everyone knows I'm one of DDO's biggest "fanboys" but the reality is, the production of a game is going to taper off a bit. DDO probably had a lot more subscribers in its first year than it does now. So basically, DDO is probably making less money than it used to. That means there are fewer people working on the game.

Which means we're not going to see another Mod 3.

Ever.

Get used to it.

BINGO !!!!!

Your dead on the money.....it is all about money.

>>>> IF <<<<< DDO currently had 25 FULL servers, do you think it would be like it is?

No WAY !

all the classes would be in, pets would be in and work, double the number of new adventures
with a brand new city of the way!

Money....Lotta money, tons of new content
.............little money...slow content
.............no money...pull plug

So you want More new content ?

Then what you really want is a ton more subscibers !

Push New Advertising ! New Features that appeal to MMO players other than D+D ones
Expand your customer base WITHOUT killing off your current one (SOE messed that one up big time)


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> IF THERE IS NOT A FREE TRIAL CD IN EVERY NEW D+D 4.0 PLAYERS HANDBOOK COMING OUT<<<<<<<<<<<<<
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> FIRE YOUR WHOLE SALES DEPARTMENT<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

(tiny hint)

Borror0
05-30-2008, 04:05 PM
In games like WoW crafting is completely optional... you can't craft stuff that's any better than what you can get from drops.

In games like DDO crafting looks like will be required to keep up with the Joneses. (e.g. Shroud) because the game will be scaled to include the better equipment you can craft from that raid.

In any case there is no required grind in WoW like the grind you need to do to qualify for the Reaver raid.

I'd settle for that, but if crafting is a way to get better stuff like they seem to have made of it... it'll just push us all into low levels quests killing kobolds, picking up the damn collectibles and crafting you item and thus mnaking it bound... it'll be annyoing and bad for new players. DDO has the tendency to accumulate grinds, rather than trying to keep it at a certain level.

You would think they would have changes the VoN flagging system now that we're six levels above and that we keep asking for it all the time, right?

Borror0
05-30-2008, 04:07 PM
Which means we're not going to see another Mod 3.

Ever.

Get used to it.

Wouldn't it be a good idea for them to make an expension pack then? Try to get more money and more new players?

VonBek
05-30-2008, 04:12 PM
I too have heard those things.
And ... -> WHOMPF <- ... here they are on Risia. Now that we've seen some good come from talking about what we'd like, let's keep the constructive ideas coming.

Maybe a structured aproach might be better
It would reduce some stress, you bet. They could also use the rev numbers with in the mods: Mod X.1 - character content; mod X.2 - many small quests and non quest environment content; Mod x.3, "Big" quests, raids, and other heavy impact content.

Stick a trial game disk in the new 4.0 D+D rule book....and in select D+D magazines
ADVERTISE ! PLEASE :-D
One of the best ideas I've seen posted.

Borror0
05-30-2008, 04:19 PM
One of the best ideas I've seen posted.

True, if WotC are disapointed by the success... maybe they should try to make it more popular?

dragnmoon
05-30-2008, 05:32 PM
So basically your complaint is either:

A) They're not hiring enough developers to work on the game (presumably because Turbine doesn't want to pay them)

or

B) The developers they have are slacking off and not doing their jobs.

And really, again, that's what amuses me. Because in neither of those cases does anyone posting to the forums have anything even remotely close to a complaint that's actually based in reality.

Look, everyone knows I'm one of DDO's biggest "fanboys" but the reality is, the production of a game is going to taper off a bit. DDO probably had a lot more subscribers in its first year than it does now. So basically, DDO is probably making less money than it used to. That means there are fewer people working on the game.

Which means we're not going to see another Mod 3.

Ever.

Get used to it.


Mystic... My Biggest Complaint are the People who refuse to see that we are getting less per Mod now...:D;):p, I could really care less about the rest... Just don't like when people are in denial :D


Edit: Also I never said the current developers are slacking off... I said.. The current Developers may not know the program as well as past developers...

Edit Edit: My worse fear is actually it is neither A or B, and turbine has the same resources they had for Mod 1-5 and this is what we are getting. Though I think it is a mix of A and my version of B :D;):p

MrWizard
05-30-2008, 06:49 PM
The devs have said they expect many "power gamers" to try out monks and go through lower quests again. This will be a good opportunity for those players to check out much of the content they never played much as well the new stuff - rather than power-leveling to get to end game. ;)


I know this is a hot topic to some, including me. But I am a power-leveler and seldom if ever repeat a dungeon until 13th or so level.
Those that 'skip' dungeons and run the same ones over and over, and take the time for max xp through sack/conq/optionals can maybe be called 'skip-max-levelers, but I would not call them power levelers.

But I guess that is up to interpretation.
1 To me, a power leveler is someone who obtains levels very quickly, and power too (such as favor) (non-repeat, elite only, no optionals).
2 To some a power leveler is someone who lowbies high level content.
3 To some a power leveler is someone who takes a lot of time to level but maxxes xp at every opportunity (and skips quests)

Quest-skippers/max-repeaters (3) obtain levels far slower than a skip-optionals/non-repeater/elite-only (1) toon.

And for me that is power leveling. So I disagree.

I know for others powerleveling is different and may disagree. But for many who have lots of capped toons, taking forever to level is not fun and method #1 will get you there in a day with a dedicated group. A few days if you have to pug. And you will most likely do 90% of the content on the way up.

As a power-leveler (in my version) if I run with a group that does the old 'all options/sack/conquest/loot/disable' I politely tell them goodbye and move on to a quick leveling group. If I am with some friends that are new, I will tag along and do all that stuff with them. I always try to tell them to not repeat dungeons to keep from getting bored and the xp is much higher by doing lots of quests, not the same one.

In short, to me, power leveling is a siple matter of xp/hour. How fast can I level. If turbine had a premium service (and they should) for an auto level to 12 I would pay it no problem. 20 bucks to do that would save me a day or two of playing to get there and allow me to enjoy the game, not grind through the same old dungeons.

fyi- even if you do not skip the dungeons, they get a bit old after the millionth time. I have deleted about 6 capped on two servers and have a ton capped now. And have done all dungeons for the most part with all of them. Just want to have a few hundred mor edungeons of any level to enjoy.

Mhykke
05-30-2008, 06:59 PM
Or the devs could do a logical thing that would really make it easy on themselves:

Introduce legitimate, substantial changes to the abbot raid w/ a new mod (not a simple matter of slowing down tiles and asteroids like in mod 7.)


This would, in addition to whatever content devs introduce w/ a new mod, allow people to go back and flag for the abbot raid and go into the abbot frequently. There's content in the game that people don't run. With some minor tweaks the devs could open up this content again, w/ little time and effort. Would give them some breathing room if introducing a small mod.

MysticTheurge
05-30-2008, 10:19 PM
Wouldn't it be a good idea for them to make an expension pack then? Try to get more money and more new players?

You don't just wave your hands and magically get an expansion. It takes time and money. And it has the potential to bring in more customers. There's no guarantee.

If they're already hurting for money (which is a big if, but let's just say), then putting the effort into an expansion may be exactly the wrong thing to do.

Of course, just for the sake of argument, let's say they were going to make an expansion pack. What do you suppose the non-expansion-pack development might look like for the time when the expansion pack were under development? Mod 3-esque?

Riddikulus
05-31-2008, 12:32 AM
So basically your complaint is either:

A) They're not hiring enough developers to work on the game (presumably because Turbine doesn't want to pay them)

or

B) The developers they have are slacking off and not doing their jobs.

And really, again, that's what amuses me. Because in neither of those cases does anyone posting to the forums have anything even remotely close to a complaint that's actually based in reality.

Look, everyone knows I'm one of DDO's biggest "fanboys" but the reality is, the production of a game is going to taper off a bit. DDO probably had a lot more subscribers in its first year than it does now. So basically, DDO is probably making less money than it used to. That means there are fewer people working on the game.

Which means we're not going to see another Mod 3.

Ever.

Get used to it.
You've hit the nail squarely on the head.

I don't believe "B" for a minute... the devs I see here on the forums are involved and responsive.

So I'm fairly certain that "A" is true... there just isn't enough subscriber revenue coming in to do much more.

Given what the devs have accomplished so far with the number of subscribers I think are left here I think they have done an amazing job. Just imagine what they could do if they had the revenue that WoW brings in... or even a tenth of that.

MrWizard
06-10-2008, 03:41 PM
well..
mod 7 out...

everyone has a monk.
the raids have been beaten and the two low level quests are done.

so..will mod 8 have content (dungeons) or not?

Riddikulus
06-10-2008, 04:00 PM
well..
mod 7 out...

everyone has a monk.
the raids have been beaten and the two low level quests are done.

so..will mod 8 have content (dungeons) or not?
IIRC there are 3 low level quests... you need to go back and finish it.

Aodh
06-10-2008, 04:07 PM
well..
mod 7 out...

everyone has a monk.
the raids have been beaten and the two low level quests are done.

so..will mod 8 have content (dungeons) or not?

Dunno, but that's really the only thing that'll bring me back. I don't have any interest in grinding through everything again with a monk.

Hendrik
06-10-2008, 04:34 PM
Just to be picky, monks = content, in the most literal sense.

Same as crafting recipes = content, and new enhancements = content.

Careful Asp, these arm-chair coders are going to tell you (if they have not already) that what you posted does not count...

:rolleyes:

Luthen
06-10-2008, 05:52 PM
Just throwing out my 2cp. not like it's anything new but here goes.

My thoughts on what Mod 8 needs:

1) Level increase to 20 (New spells and feats)
2) 8-10 high level quests
3) 2-4 Mid level quests
4) 1 new Adventure zone (I prefer high level but just a preferrence)
5) 1 High level raid
5) 1 Mid level raid (A new Tempest Spine would be nice)
6) Half-Orcs (Or some other interesting new race)
7) Increase Character slots to 15 (A new reason to add in additional favor rewards beyond the 1750)

Do all of this and I might be willing to hold off complaints if the mod doesnt arrive til Nov or Oct. :D

MrWizard
06-10-2008, 08:16 PM
for mod 8 I would like to see a level increase, 18 is fine...but only if they add content.

Add about 12 dungeons for each level. Whether they be special dungeons, giant cave small dungeons, just goofy short dungeons, long crazy ones.

a revamped upgraded higher level tempest spine...or 3.

a hundred dungeons and 3 tempest raids will keep me busy for the next update for sure...and will give everyone something new to do for awhile instead of the same thing.

I have come back for a week to play and do not even have an interest in the new raids at all...so I checked out the monks, heard about the 3 new dungeons and raids...and then I kinda ran out of steam.

Begging for dungeons...with or without whips.