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D'rin
05-28-2008, 01:05 PM
What level is the speed boost from the air stance available? I am looking at a monk/ranger and wondering what levels I want to take in each.

RazorrX
05-28-2008, 01:11 PM
Was in a discussion about this with some fellow monks and we were thinking that Ranger 6 for tempest and Monk 10 would be a great mix. Monk second Tier Wind stance seems quite fast.

D'rin
05-28-2008, 01:15 PM
yeah that is my thought a tempest monk with both speed enhancemets would be really nice. I am not sure which is best long term 11ranger/9 monk or 14monk/6 ranger. Either a str based or dex based would still give some really nice dps or stat damage.

I would start with 2 levels of monk to get the bonus feats to help get tempest on the ranger faster and also to have evasion earlier on. Another question would be do the stance get affected by the types of weapons you use?

EinarMal
05-28-2008, 01:21 PM
I would think you would want the third tier Air stance at Monk level 12 so go that route. It seems to scale currently pretty quickly so you might actually end up attacking faster with the 4th tier of Air (Monk 16) rather than Tempest + Air 3 (assuming they stack??). So, long term just stick with 6-7 Ranger levels and the rest Monk.

I saw the speed breakdown estimate somewhere for Air but I believe 2nd Tier or 3rd Tier was hitting haste speed (and stacked with haste).

I would be very wary making this build, this has NERF written all over it (not allowing tempest and Air to stack).

To use the stance you must dual wield kamas if you want to use Tempest and the TWF feats, all other weapons "un-center" you although they keep mentioning "Ki" weapons that would allow you to dual wield them and still use Monk stances.

Again if the boost from Air 3 to Air 4 is greater than the boost from Tempest you might not really gain all that much.

TommyBoy
05-28-2008, 01:25 PM
Another question would be do the stance get affected by the types of weapons you use?

Yes. If you aren't using QStaff, Sheruken, Kama or unarmed they don't work at all. even equipting a candy cane or scroll will uncenter you and cause them not to work.

D'rin
05-28-2008, 03:14 PM
I would think you would want the third tier Air stance at Monk level 12 so go that route. It seems to scale currently pretty quickly so you might actually end up attacking faster with the 4th tier of Air (Monk 16) rather than Tempest + Air 3 (assuming they stack??). So, long term just stick with 6-7 Ranger levels and the rest Monk.

I saw the speed breakdown estimate somewhere for Air but I believe 2nd Tier or 3rd Tier was hitting haste speed (and stacked with haste).

I would be very wary making this build, this has NERF written all over it (not allowing tempest and Air to stack).

To use the stance you must dual wield kamas if you want to use Tempest and the TWF feats, all other weapons "un-center" you although they keep mentioning "Ki" weapons that would allow you to dual wield them and still use Monk stances.

Again if the boost from Air 3 to Air 4 is greater than the boost from Tempest you might not really gain all that much.

Thanks for the info EinarMal. That is exactly what I needed to know. It seems to me the path of Air is the way to go for a monk. Still not sure about going twf route. I really wish unarmed worked with TWF.

EinarMal
05-29-2008, 09:42 AM
Thanks for the info EinarMal. That is exactly what I needed to know. It seems to me the path of Air is the way to go for a monk. Still not sure about going twf route. I really wish unarmed worked with TWF.

Yeah I am on the fence as well about TWF and monks, I would prefer to make an unarmed fighting build (since it is different than what I have done before) but it is looking like the best route is to go with TWF and kamas, which I probably won't do.

So, I might not make a monk at all if unaarmed is not a viable option at end game. I was planning on making a dex based Halfling with a Rogue splash for some sneak attack damage using the Air stance for quick attacks. I am just not sure how that will work at high levels though.

Gol
05-29-2008, 09:57 AM
Yeah I am on the fence as well about TWF and monks, I would prefer to make an unarmed fighting build (since it is different than what I have done before) but it is looking like the best route is to go with TWF and kamas, which I probably won't do.

So, I might not make a monk at all if unaarmed is not a viable option at end game. I was planning on making a dex based Halfling with a Rogue splash for some sneak attack damage using the Air stance for quick attacks. I am just not sure how that will work at high levels though.
Handwraps make unarmed viable at endgame. The only question is whether we'll see the metal-types for bypassing DR drop on Handwraps, which I'm seriously doubting. Endgame DR will be an unarmed monk's bane (Devils and Demons, namely, which is 2 raid bosses, plus the Stormreaver).

BGP
05-29-2008, 10:31 AM
Handwraps make unarmed viable at endgame. The only question is whether we'll see the metal-types for bypassing DR drop on Handwraps, which I'm seriously doubting. Endgame DR will be an unarmed monk's bane (Devils and Demons, namely, which is 2 raid bosses, plus the Stormreaver).

Gol

Didn't know if you saw this:

"# Level 16:
* Ki Strike (Adamantine): Unarmed attacks from the monk are now considered Adamantine, Lawful, and Magic weapons for damage reduction purposes."

I assume with that feat along with the variety of handwraps already available, monks should be able to bypass any DR that is able to be bypassed now. Time will only tell.

CSFurious
05-29-2008, 10:34 AM
i think for the forseeable future that the wisest monks will stay pure

i think that there is a tremendous benefit to going pure & fighting empty-handed


Gol

Didn't know if you saw this:

"# Level 16:
* Ki Strike (Adamantine): Unarmed attacks from the monk are now considered Adamantine, Lawful, and Magic weapons for damage reduction purposes."

I assume with that feat along with the variety of handwraps already available, monks should be able to bypass any DR that is able to be bypassed now. Time will only tell.

Mhykke
05-29-2008, 10:34 AM
Gol

Didn't know if you saw this:

"# Level 16:
* Ki Strike (Adamantine): Unarmed attacks from the monk are now considered Adamantine, Lawful, and Magic weapons for damage reduction purposes."

I assume with that feat along with the variety of handwraps already available, monks should be able to bypass any DR that is able to be bypassed now. Time will only tell.

What about silver and cold iron?

Gol
05-29-2008, 10:40 AM
Gol

Didn't know if you saw this:

"# Level 16:
* Ki Strike (Adamantine): Unarmed attacks from the monk are now considered Adamantine, Lawful, and Magic weapons for damage reduction purposes."

I assume with that feat along with the variety of handwraps already available, monks should be able to bypass any DR that is able to be bypassed now. Time will only tell.
I know that. But to bypass all the DR I explicitly mentioned, you'd also need Cold Iron, Mithral, and Silver.

CSFurious
05-29-2008, 10:42 AM
there being hand-wraps that do all of those things, ie., just like your dwarf ranger picks his weapon for the encounter so will the monk change his handwraps


I know that. But to bypass all the DR I explicitly mentioned, you'd also need Cold Iron, Mithral, and Silver.

EinarMal
05-29-2008, 10:45 AM
Handwraps make unarmed viable at endgame. The only question is whether we'll see the metal-types for bypassing DR drop on Handwraps, which I'm seriously doubting. Endgame DR will be an unarmed monk's bane (Devils and Demons, namely, which is 2 raid bosses, plus the Stormreaver).

I hope so, it would be a shame if they spent all that time on unarmed combat, and then make it an inferior choice.

Gol
05-29-2008, 10:54 AM
there being hand-wraps that do all of those things, ie., just like your dwarf ranger picks his weapon for the encounter so will the monk change his handwraps
Have we seen handwraps with these attributes, though? Sure, metal weapons come in Silver and Cold Iron, but Qstaves and clubs don't. I'm making the logical assumption handwraps won't either, but I'd gladly be wrong. Transmuting is a different story of course - I'm assuming we'll see handwraps with transmuting.

CSFurious
05-29-2008, 11:08 AM
i think it will be pretty easy, i.e., silver or cold iron knuckles

without that type of dev-love, empty-handed monks will not be played at the high levels


Have we seen handwraps with these attributes, though? Sure, metal weapons come in Silver and Cold Iron, but Qstaves and clubs don't. I'm making the logical assumption handwraps won't either, but I'd gladly be wrong. Transmuting is a different story of course - I'm assuming we'll see handwraps with transmuting.

Gol
05-29-2008, 11:17 AM
i think it will be pretty easy, i.e., silver or cold iron knuckles

without that type of dev-love, empty-handed monks will not be played at the high levels
Just saying, we haven't seen it on Risia, so I'm not taking it as a given by any stretch.

EinarMal
05-30-2008, 08:16 AM
Well after further review it looks like wind stance DOES NOT STACK with haste, making it pretty useless as the bonus of tier 3 of wind is ~20% or less than the 25% haste speed boost.

BOOO

I will probably not be making a Monk now, the only viable way now would be a strength based dual wielding kama monk using the fire stance :(

Gol
05-30-2008, 08:20 AM
Well after further review it looks like wind stance DOES NOT STACK with haste, making it pretty useless as the bonus of tier 3 of wind is ~20% or less than the 25% haste speed boost.Wow, just wow... Innate speed doesn't stack with a magical speed increaser? That makes no sense at all.

Turial
05-30-2008, 08:39 AM
Wow, just wow... Innate speed doesn't stack with a magical speed increaser? That makes no sense at all.

Especially when tempest (enhancement speed increase) stacks with haste.

Makes one wonder if monk fast movement will stack with haste and striders.

Dark-Star
05-30-2008, 12:48 PM
Makes one wonder if monk fast movement will stack with haste and striders.

Someone on Risia said that innate run speed does not stack with these, striders or haste. I'll see if I can verify later tonight.

bobbryan2
05-30-2008, 02:06 PM
And that wind stance attack speed doesn't stack with haste.

D'rin
05-30-2008, 02:27 PM
Wow if they made monk speed boost not stack with haste that pretty much kills the monk as a melee class. The only thing they had going for them was the extra speed. Has that been verified? It just would not make sense to do that since all other class attack speed increase do stack with haste. Now i could see it not stacking with tempest enhancements or way of the acrobat.