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Sindaleus
05-24-2008, 07:17 PM
I am very disappointed that spells do not stack with equpment +modifiers on AC, Characteristics, To Hit, or Saves. Once you've reached Level 9 and able to wear +4 mod. items then the a majority of the buff benefit spells become mute.

Such As,

Bless
Protection from Evil
NightShield
*All +Attribute Target, Spells
Magic Circle Against Evil
Divine Power (Substituted with +Str Items/+ToHit Wpns)
*All +Attribute Mass, Spells

When you're lower level these spells are useful but quickly fade away once people get thier higher enchanted equipment on. Sure that saves spell slots for other benefits but let's face it, spell casters are getting spells for the sake of filling in a gap that serve no purpose but to do so, IMHO. Spell benefits should be an +added column on its own when calculating final AC, Characteristics, To Hit (spell modifier), or Saves instead of taking the higher of with enchanted items.

As I'm playing more, and more, I am finding dumb calculation methods that turn this game into an equipment heavy scenario game. Casters are given spells that serve no purpose or operate on a 100% failure rate verse mobs, that its sad.

When I get loads of /tells from people selling Plat., then you look on the Auction House and see price ranges into the multi-millions that its no wonder these vendors thrive in this game system. You almost have to blow millions of Plat. to get items that keep you semi-competitive against mobs. The one free source to buffer that need, a.k.a. spell buffs, are obsolete mid-level up.

I am asking the Dev team to seriously reconsider their current method of calculating total modifiers to include spell +s as stackable to equipment. We're already paying the SPs for temporary benefits, so at least have it count when used.

Impaqt
05-24-2008, 07:38 PM
I am very disappointed that spells do not stack with equpment +modifiers on AC, Characteristics, To Hit, or Saves. Once you've reached Level 9 and able to wear +4 mod. items then the a majority of the buff benefit spells become mute.

Such As,

Bless Still removes BANE Debuff
Protection from Evil Still Stops Domination and the Saves and Ac DO indeed stack.
NightShield Stopping MM and Force Missle is pretty darn handy
*All +Attribute Target, Spells
Magic Circle Against Evil See Protection from Evil
Divine Power (Substituted with +Str Items/+ToHit Wpns) Raised BAB to that of a fighter... No other way to do this and still be able to cast... AWESOME all level spell for anyoen wuith a reduced BAB priogression
*All +Attribute Mass, Spells

When you're lower level these spells are useful but quickly fade away once people get thier higher enchanted equipment on. Sure that saves spell slots for other benefits but let's face it, spell casters are getting spells for the sake of filling in a gap that serve no purpose but to do so, IMHO. Spell benefits should be an +added column on its own when calculating final AC, Characteristics, To Hit (spell modifier), or Saves instead of taking the higher of with enchanted items.

As I'm playing more, and more, I am finding dumb calculation methods that turn this game into an equipment heavy scenario game. Casters are given spells that serve no purpose or operate on a 100% failure rate verse mobs, that its sad.

When I get loads of /tells from people selling Plat., then you look on the Auction House and see price ranges into the multi-millions that its no wonder these vendors thrive in this game system. You almost have to blow millions of Plat. to get items that keep you semi-competitive against mobs. The one free source to buffer that need, a.k.a. spell buffs, are obsolete mid-level up.

I am asking the Dev team to seriously reconsider their current method of calculating total modifiers to include spell +s as stackable to equipment. We're already paying the SPs for temporary benefits, so at least have it count when used.

Most of those "Useless" Spells are Quite Useful in fact....

Krago
05-24-2008, 09:34 PM
I bet fighters and barbs do not have + modifiers to their wisdom that they keep equipped. Too many other things they need to have on like con, dex, str, greater false life etc. Pallys as well if they went straigh cha to enhance their saves.

Mass Owl wisdom or just owl wisdom still has a place.

Hvymetal
05-25-2008, 05:26 AM
Most of those "Useless" Spells are Quite Useful in fact....

QFT....

Lorien_the_First_One
05-25-2008, 08:03 AM
I am very disappointed that spells do not stack with equpment +modifiers on AC, Characteristics, To Hit, or Saves. Once you've reached Level 9 and able to wear +4 mod. items then the a majority of the buff benefit spells become mute.

It's true that in PnP they were useful longer as +4 items were extremely rare, but even so spells will always have different uses at L1 & L20, anyone still use NIACs at L16?



Such As,

Bless
Protection from Evil
NightShield
*All +Attribute Target, Spells
Magic Circle Against Evil
Divine Power (Substituted with +Str Items/+ToHit Wpns)
*All +Attribute Mass, Spells

As Impact points out, all but the bull/bear/etc buffs are still useful at L16 and beyond.


As I'm playing more, and more, I am finding dumb calculation methods that turn this game into an equipment heavy scenario game. Casters are given spells that serve no purpose or operate on a 100% failure rate verse mobs, that its sad.

100% failure rate? Not many of those spells out there unless you are using the wrong spells against the wrong target.


I am asking the Dev team to seriously reconsider their current method of calculating total modifiers to include spell +s as stackable to equipment. We're already paying the SPs for temporary benefits, so at least have it count when used.

The game is already WAY overinflated in stats and it is breaking the game. I'm not sure that the game can even hold it together up to L20 at this rate, we don't need more inflation of stats.

MysticTheurge
05-25-2008, 10:43 AM
Bless isn't superseded by equipment (that I know of). It's replaced by other, better, more powerful spells/abilities (such as Mass Aid, Greater Heroism and Inspire Courage).

Depravity
05-25-2008, 11:06 AM
Casters are given spells that serve no purpose or operate on a 100% failure rate verse mobs, that its sad.


A) Try heighten - if you're casting anything with a save, heighten with the two enhancements to bring its price down is one of the best metamagic feats hands down. Makes a lot of those low level spells shine, especially web.

B) Crowd control basics 101:
If it's mostly swinging a melee weapon, hit it with a will save.
If it's casting spells, smack it with a fortitude or reflex save.
If it seems like it's going to be sort of sneaky, will or fortitude save.



When I get loads of /tells from people selling Plat., then you look on the Auction House and see price ranges into the multi-millions that its no wonder these vendors thrive in this game system. You almost have to blow millions of Plat. to get items that keep you semi-competitive against mobs. The one free source to buffer that need, a.k.a. spell buffs, are obsolete mid-level up.

Only thing my wizzy bought on AH prior to reaching level 16 were scrolls that weren't in vendor lists (for inscribing), and one superior potency VI scepter. Once I got up there and started seeing teh phat l00tz, I could afford to start buying some goodies to get boosts here and there (two-focus focus items, greater spell pen, etc), but they were more or less minor boosts.

A lot of the spells don't stack for a reason - it would make the gap between full buff and partial buff ridiculously wide, not to mention we'd see even more mob stat inflation. Many of those spells are designed to be superseded at higher levels.

Vaypor
05-26-2008, 03:27 AM
Not only do I agree that those spells are still particulary helpful, try running Von 4, The Pit, or areas of the Orchard w/o night shield and see how annoying all those MM's and FM's are. Nightshield is a standard buff for my sorc, like blur.

And my cleric, 16th lvl, casts mass buffs of the "useless" spells you mentioned. So, based on experience, I must disagree w/ most of what you said. But I do agree that anyone w/ a +4 item or higher won't benefit from a stat buff, but those w/o the item will.

Happy hunting.