PDA

View Full Version : Bordem Resolved



oogly54
05-23-2008, 10:17 AM
I have realized why MOD 6 has seemed boring to me. I looked back at all the MODs I really loved and thought WHY I liked them so much and why I don't enjoy this one so much. There are several things I liked, but my disappointment for MOD 6 boils down to rare named loot.

I loved the desert, the named loot in the desert has given me numerous hours of enjoyment. Many of us have ran the desert in search of rare loot, some successful, some not. I like the Orchard a lot too. I agree undead is not the greatest mob in the world, but the tapestries were cool. The quests had shield pieces AND named loot. The preraid had tome pieces AND named loot. Several people still run the Orchard in search of these items. Gianthold had great named items in the main quests which we ran them for. DEVs you wasted your time with the chests in the Gianthold, only because there was nothing in them worth going after. That is an entire open area that is not used, because you gave us no reason to play in there.

When you get to the Shroud/Vale quest you have ingrediants, which aren't rare, just a grind to get a ton of them. There is nothing exciting about looting an ingredient. There is something VERY boring about running a quest numerous times for ingredients. If there was some named loot, even very rare named loot, it would have spiced up the grind. People only run the Vale quest for ingredients, which is boring because you know you will get them, just need to run it a bunch to get enough. The vale open area chests are only ran after for the XP initally, then because it is easy loot. Nobody does it anymore, because there is nothing to go after and there is better loot elsewhere.

Another issue is that the best weapons in the game are not rare, they are just a gind away from getting. One of the best aspects of D&D is the ability to find the coolest, rarest item by going on an adventure. The crafting of items is not cool or exciting or an adventure. It is all laid out for you as to what you can make and it is just what several other people made when they did the grind. Granted there are some nice items, but making one is all about creating a stronger character, not about fun and ejoyment from questing.

You created favor to get everyone to run every quest. If you just made a list of cool rare items to put in all these quests, that are unique to the quest, then the quest would be ran several times. How many people have run STK for the feather ring? The power of the items do not need to be huge, but the items need to be useful. The troll ring was a cool idea, and really the small amount of regen it gave was NOT powerful. There are countless ideas that could be added. Trapsense goggles for the none rogue that outlines the trap similarly to Boulders Gate. Refilling cure light, mod, crit pots that fill once per day. Danger sense item, glows when mob is near (LofR). (etc. etc.) Part of the quest plot, each mob boss could have a unique item, WORTH going after. A lot of the power could just be in the lower level requirment to get the item over normal items (ala the mace of smitting) You have already started doing this. Expand it, not eliminate it like the Vale/Shroud.

So, my final point is, make quests with cool named loot to fetch for, to be excited for when they drop. Make nice items that can be crafted but NOT the very best items. Crafting is a fine way to balance out your character and improve them, but dont make it the only way to get the top tear gear. Make us want to run something, don't force us to.

Lastly, I am a HUGE fan of this game, overall I think you guys have done a great job. Keep up the good work. (just add a ton of content, tons of classes, and about 30 more races :)

Turial
05-23-2008, 11:41 AM
I have realized why MOD 6 has seemed boring to me. I looked back at all the MODs I really loved and thought WHY I liked them so much and why I don't enjoy this one so much. There are several things I liked, but my disappointment for MOD 6 boils down to rare named loot.

:)

This is the same reason I found mod 6 to not be as much fun as those before it. When I think back on all the books I've read and games I've played the best things are those rare named items...even the spoon. They add spice to the quests and make the world seem more real due to the flavor of the items and the flavor text involved. Plus they just make things seem cooler...P1:"what armor is that?" P2:"+2 full plate" just doesnt sound as cool as say P2:"Calamitie's Carapace" (sp) or "Miasma's fang".

Issip
05-23-2008, 11:52 AM
There's named +5 mithral FP in the cursed crypt - doesn't make the crypts worth doing or any more fun. It occasionally makes capped toons do loot runs through there as fast as possible, but it's not fun.

I like the new content in Mod6, my only complaint is that there are 5 level 16 quests in a game that caps at level 16, and one raid that everyone has to do umpteen zillion times to get the good loot. That's a total of 6 level appropriate quests for capped toons - everything else is essentially old lower-level content. I have heard complaints about the qulity of the content, which I don't buy. I like the graphics on the new devils and I think what content is there is really good, it just gets old after a while.

Mod7 will definately help this by creating more lvl 16 content.

I like named loot, and it helps, but I don't think a few pieces of named loot would make up for the fact that you can run all of the high level content in a single afternoon, and it certainly wouldn't make up for a Mod full quests like the necropolis tombs.

oogly54
05-23-2008, 12:26 PM
There's named +5 mithral FP in the cursed crypt - doesn't make the crypts worth doing or any more fun. It occasionally makes capped toons do loot runs through there as fast as possible, but it's not fun.

We are comparing apples to oranges here. The quest is fun only the first couple times we run any quest for any reason. What IS still fun is looting rare items. We run every quest as fast as posible after the first run to get to the end loot. What sucks about the newest content is the end chest is an ingredient that is not fun or exciting to pull. In older content we would have a chance to pull a rare named item.

I have heard many people congrtualte people for pulling a rare item, i have yet to hear anyone congratualte someone for pulling an ingredient.

I ran the cursed crypt last night as a matter of fact to get the scourge choker, still a very hot item to get. We ran POP a million times for the +5 resist boots and others. Compare how many times you have ran the necro first for quests in the series compared to the cursed crypt. People never go back and run the first four, but people run the cursed crypt a lot souly because of the rare drops. I have ran cursed crypt about 50+ times and still have not pulled a chocker, in yet I have fun running it and will run it some more in search or the rare item.

insania2016
05-23-2008, 12:58 PM
Turbine was bitten by the WoW game mechanics (LoTR - for example. Nice story, great graphics but... It is WoW with a new skin)

So basically it boils down to, the game is headed down the path of the grind.

Even on Risia I found collection quests (kill 50 kobolds) and come back.

Also found bounty poles like in EQ2. i.e. Kill Kneeza and come back. :p

Tyrande
05-23-2008, 01:15 PM
We are comparing apples to oranges here. The quest is fun only the first couple times we run any quest for any reason. What IS still fun is looting rare items. We run every quest as fast as posible after the first run to get to the end loot. What sucks about the newest content is the end chest is an ingredient that is not fun or exciting to pull. In older content we would have a chance to pull a rare named item.

[...]


Sounded like you do not like crafting.
It also sounded like you do not have the patience for crafting.

oogly54
05-23-2008, 01:27 PM
I have 4 teir three level items and 3 other two tier items. I do not like crafting you are correct, having the patience is something I do have though. Crafting makes everyone the same, without the excitment of a good pull. I have done the grind through the shroud, I have had no fun doing it since the 3rd or so run. Maybe the first time we completed it on elite with 6 people it was fun, but that got old as well.

ArkoHighStar
05-23-2008, 01:30 PM
Sounded like you do not like crafting.
It also sounded like you do not have the patience for crafting.

it is not so much patience as it is boredom of running the same raid over and over for an ingredient. If it was more than one quest that dropped the second set of ingredients the content would last longer, but sadly once you have your greensteel item you have no reaons to do anything but the shroud, until you decide to build something new, and that simply gets old fast

oogly54
05-23-2008, 01:36 PM
it is not so much patience as it is boredom of running the same raid over and over for an ingredient. If it was more than one quest that dropped the second set of ingredients the content would last longer, but sadly once you have your greensteel item you have no reaons to do anything but the shroud, until you decide to build something new, and that simply gets old fast

QFT

Strakeln
05-23-2008, 01:39 PM
For the most part, we only ask Turbine for two things:

1) More content
2) Less bugs

For some reason, Turbine hears this as:

1) Tinker with old quests
2) More bugs
3) Removal of static named loot
4) More goddamn tinkering
5) WoW mechanics

Way to go, Turbine!

Borrigain
05-23-2008, 01:47 PM
Sounded like you do not like crafting.
It also sounded like you do not have the patience for crafting.

Can't speak for Oogly, but, you're absolutely right.....for me anyway. :D I can't stand crafting because I don't have the TIME therefore the patience to grind ingredients to grind the shroud to make more ingredients to grind the shroud some more to make an "uber" weapon or item.

Some of us have lives that do not provide the spare time to mull over excel spreadsheets and plan out every ingredient I will need to make so-and-so. Wish I did, but between 2 jobs and family, I only have a couple of hours every few days to play. Speaking for me and me alone, when I get in-game, I want to play, not tinker around with things or looking for things that are required to "make" said weapon or item. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it shouldn't be made available, but "different folks have different strokes" :) for where there derive their enjoyment from.

So, yeah, I'm with you oogly. Bring back the rare items, at least I could run different missions is search of their respective elusive items and be able to feel the sense of wonder and accomplishment when I pull it, give kudos and grats to those with me who got one when I didn't, relish the sense of personal pride when I give the one I don't need to someone who does for free, and the utter sense of joy and thanks when someone else hooks me up when they don't need it.

Running the different missions and explorer areas to me breaks up the monotony of the "grind". So, why can't we have it both ways Turbine? Let those who have the time and inclination craft to their heart's content, and let those of us who would rather adventure with the "chance" of getting something cool have our day in the sun too.

/signed the Petition to Bring Back Rare Named Items. :D

Borr.

Lorien_the_First_One
05-23-2008, 02:16 PM
I'm with the OP 100%

EinarMal
05-23-2008, 02:20 PM
I agree the grind is out of hand, static loot from chain quests keeps the haves and have nots more even and the game more fun for everyone.

Down with the grind!!!!

Plus it is more fun pulling named loot than some stupid shield piece or mushroom of craptastica

oogly54
05-23-2008, 02:25 PM
Wow, I post something and I am not flamed. (yet) Cool!

The_Ick
05-23-2008, 03:27 PM
Named loot is definately cool and i did miss it from the last mod althought i wouldn't trade the vale craftable items for it. I think if they left the raid as is, but added named items to the shroud and shroud quests it would have been the best of both worlds.

Akhad_Durn
05-23-2008, 06:56 PM
I'm in agreement with you Oogly, new named items are needed. Its one of the things I truely enjoy trying to get. Just last night I spent three hours running in the desert to try to get the Tourney Armor from Commander Errulf. Didn't get it, but had fun doing it.

Thats why I'm happy to have learned that they've added named loot in with the Mod7 (at least at this point :p).

SPOILER: This (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=147263) is the Risia thread on the named loot found so far.

Samadhi
05-24-2008, 12:29 AM
This is a really, really good point that I had never really thought of. Good show Ooogly.

sirgog
05-24-2008, 01:02 AM
Definitely agree with the OP.

The Devs should definitely add named loot to the 5 outside quests in the Vale, plus to the Vale itself.

And the item(s) found in Coalescence Chamber should all grant featherfall (in addition to other benefits), just for a laugh.




Here's some item suggestions. Unless otherwise stated, all are ML 15 if accessories or ML 16 if weapon/armor:

Rainbow in the Dark:
Goggles of the Mechanic: Goggles slot, +13 to each of Disable Device, Spot, and Search (This is a jack-of-all-trades item - it's not uber at anything, but it is good at everything)
Rainbow Dart: +5 returning shuriken, flaming, acid, frost and shock (This is an intentionally strange item - very powerful effects on a very weak base item. Someone will have fun building a toon to use this)

Coalescence Chamber:
Couatl Plumes: Cloak slot, +6 charisma, featherfall
Master Acrobat's Ring: Ring slot, +4 Dexterity, +13 Jump, +13 Tumble, Featherfall

Running with the Devils:
Nightfire: +3 Rapier, Cold Iron, Unholy Burst, Flaming Burst, Taint of Evil
Skullsmasher: Greatclub (Altered stats - crit 19-20 x3), Maladroit, Bonebreaking

Let Sleeping Dust Lie:
Centurion's Case: +5 adamantine full plate (Altered stats - DR 6/-)
Giantsbane: +3 longsword, Cursespewing, Greater Bane: Giants

Ritual Sacrifice:
Gnollsplitter: +5 dwarven axe, Greater Bane: Gnolls
Orthon Belt: Belt slot, +5 Con, Improved False Life

Frodo_Lives
05-24-2008, 02:11 PM
I'm with the OP. Rare named items are fun, even if they are not overpowered but just useful.

I don't grind for crafting as I do not find it fun. I will probably be one of the last people to have a tier III item because while uber and far too powerful compared to anything else, I have no interest in grinding over and over for it. I can live without it and do just fine.

If you like the grinding for crafting then seriously, good for you. If you hate it but do it because the items you can make are just too good to do without, then you definately play this game for a different reason than I do.

Knightrose
05-24-2008, 05:03 PM
To be honest I agree. I wish the crafting system we have now had never existed. My greatest joy in DDO until Mod6 was discovering legendary gear. Not dropping rodent ass hair into a granite Beholder to get the Twilight Forges version of a 'Boom-stick!'

I always felt it was lame. Not to mention the crafting gear completely blows away nearly every other item in the game. Sorely cheapened my returns to older quests.

Only since Mod6 do I feel DDO has begun to choose a grave.

dragonofsteel2
05-24-2008, 08:03 PM
Never understand why a name item makes it more fun for some, look doing a stupid quest 80times for a crafted name item or a name item is a grind plan and simple. Although if crafted it more suited for your play style. It does not matter pull a name item from the chest or have to grind some ing. to get the item, both or grinds. Done the desert at least 100 times all the chest I never pull stupid bloodstone, I still do not think this is fun. Did the firegreave chest to final pull one was not thrilled when that happen it more "about dam time".I have always hated doing simple task to attain a name or whatever item to improve my toon. If it's funnier for you to grind a name item then woot, guess what it's not for me. The crafted system is little better to me, dam at least I know after running 20 times I am close to attaining the item I want. 20 times in the desert did not get me any closer to attaining the bloodstone in that boring sleep through run firewall kill all then loot chest. I would like this system expanded to add more raids and quest to collecting the ing., give peeps some there precise name items they want, but get like 4-6 raids and 10-15 quest so don't feel like I am grinding the same old stupid quest and more like we adventuring to attian powerful items. Keep the crafting add some name loot, so then no one feels like they getting the shaft if they did not get the name loot.

ramalad
05-24-2008, 09:54 PM
I agree with ya Oog...bring back named loot. Because I still find myself saying "come on <named item>" when I run the quests that have named items and am about to open a chest. I'd rather buy the ingredients from the ah then run the shroud quests...but I'd probably run them more (and find more groups doing so) if there were named loot like in XC or PoP.

Knightrose
05-25-2008, 06:56 AM
Peter:

Crafting is flat-out for elitist. Giving any player the ability to min/max to an even higher level. It grants you all of the good with none of the bad. It allows for cookie-cutter templates and flushes otherwise once useful class cooperation. It also creates what I call soloism in groups. Which means players who play along with groups but independently of them. Why bother waiting for the Rogue or the Cleric when you can jut ahead and wipe-out everything on your own?

It's silly to force yourself to slow down and wait for others when you've worked so hard to become more powerful right? That's why the flow and rhythm of a party should be in part controlled by their effectiveness and the difficulty of the dungeon. Crafting helps disrupt that rhythm even further. Though it certainly suffered before it suffers even more now.

Crafting was a huge shift for DDO and in my opinion in the wrong direction.

dragonofsteel2
05-25-2008, 10:45 PM
Peter:


Crafting is flat-out for elitist. Giving any player the ability to min/max to an even higher level. It grants you all of the good with none of the bad. It allows for cookie-cutter templates and flushes otherwise once useful class cooperation. It also creates what I call soloism in groups. Which means players who play along with groups but independently of them. Why bother waiting for the Rogue or the Cleric when you can jut ahead and wipe-out everything on your own?

It's silly to force yourself to slow down and wait for others when you've worked so hard to become more powerful right? That's why the flow and rhythm of a party should be in part controlled by their effectiveness and the difficulty of the dungeon. Crafting helps disrupt that rhythm even further. Though it certainly suffered before it suffers even more now.

Crafting was a huge shift for DDO and in my opinion in the wrong direction.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The proper office of a friend is to side with you when you are in the wrong. Nearly anybody will side with you when you are in the right."

First point I did not call the people that want name loot back anything. So this "elitist" comment is not needed, if do not like the crafting great. Stop with this class attacks in freaking game. We all know what they imply by elitist?? Person that plays to much and has ton gear and loot because they or always on. Sorry to disappoint you going have elitist no matter what system you install. Its a simple fact someone that plays more and kills more dungeons will always get the loot first and the must. All these stupid insults when do not agree with someone opinion is prove your ignorance. Instead calling my opinion "elitist" please come up with reason why there difference from hunting crafting ing. or super rare name loot? Please explain to me how the shroud does not need clerics, rogues , or other classes because they will slow use down?


It's silly to force yourself to slow down and wait for others when you've worked so hard to become more powerful right?
Please enlighten me with how know what kind play style I have? Yes some play styles or to work really hard to become powerful. Is there something wrong with that? If you do not like crafting great, but stop the needless name calling. Say the reason do not like it and be done with it.

At least the person that started this thread gave a solid opinion which I respect. Might not agree with it, but at the same time I respect the opinion.

ENGRAV0
05-25-2008, 11:43 PM
This is actualy fairly funny. Sorry. You see, this is a result of only posting when you have an issue, or a complaint.

Before mod 6, there were a LOT of threads about not liking the named items, and being able to make what you wanted. So, they removed the named items, and now, seems everyone that wasnt happy finaly answered up. Maybe being more active in the forums will help everyone, and if everyone doesn't wait until they see something that they strongly dislike, perhaps it can be evaluated as to the true affect it will have PRIOR to having said affect.


Of course, this is an opinion, but it is something I have witnessed over time and over the span of several nerfs and then overbalancing issues.

-Cheers

jaitee
05-26-2008, 12:31 AM
lol, with crafting there is no need to do loot runs anymore?

do you see that?

i came back from a long break, people are like, i have this green steel weapon, why do i need this and this weapon?

i have this super cool goggle with 5-10 stats on it, why do i care about the one in titan?

before i left, and before crafting came, people once valued the visor of concentration, it was actually good, because nothing else came on a visor that was as decent as this(for a caster)

with crafting, anything can be obtained on items, why grind for a named item, when people can just shroud, and make something 10 times as good as a named item?

you can raise dead, you can heal, you do everything with this new crafting

this game is no longer a challenge, just shroud up, and you'll be as good as the person standing next to you

oogly54
05-26-2008, 05:32 AM
lol, with crafting there is no need to do loot runs anymore?

do you see that?

i came back from a long break, people are like, i have this green steel weapon, why do i need this and this weapon?

i have this super cool goggle with 5-10 stats on it, why do i care about the one in titan?

before i left, and before crafting came, people once valued the visor of concentration, it was actually good, because nothing else came on a visor that was as decent as this(for a caster)

with crafting, anything can be obtained on items, why grind for a named item, when people can just shroud, and make something 10 times as good as a named item?

you can raise dead, you can heal, you do everything with this new crafting

this game is no longer a challenge, just shroud up, and you'll be as good as the person standing next to you

Completely agree here.

Errin
06-09-2008, 10:47 PM
Oogly, I am in total agreement about the crafting. I haven't started it and I don't know that I will. When I get home and get to spend a few hours online I do not want to run the same quest day after day just to get an ingrediant. Unfortunately, I can see people taking time off from DDO due to boredom and it is mainly due to the fact that people have run the same quests over and over and over again. One of the reasons I got bored with Mod 6 is the crafting but it was also because I was able to cap my toons very quickly so there was no incentive to quest. It's sad really.

Errin

Samy
06-09-2008, 11:20 PM
I agree fully. I don't have the patience to hunt down ingredients and look online for recipes and count how many xs and ys I have in my inventory and go on quests to hunt down some more zs. I prefer to just pull a readymade item. It doesn't even have to be named, I'd be happy with a +5 flaming scimitar. But bottom line, the game is about what I pull, not what I make. I'm a casual player, I come here to play, not to run spreadsheets. I do enough of that at work.

I'm glad the crafting system entertains whoever it entertains, but it doesn't attract me in the least.

Heathcoat
06-24-2008, 12:23 AM
Turbine was bitten by the WoW game mechanics (LoTR - for example. Nice story, great graphics but... It is WoW with a new skin)

So basically it boils down to, the game is headed down the path of the grind.

Even on Risia I found collection quests (kill 50 kobolds) and come back.

Also found bounty poles like in EQ2. i.e. Kill Kneeza and come back. :p

This is the problem with MMOs in general. They all start as one thing, and slowly gravitate towards a generic style game. When I first tried LOTR in in beta, I thought, I love the books and movies, but the game was sort of...well...rudimentary. I checked out the crafting aspect of the game thinking it was a great idea, but found myself utterly bored with the whole idea. I dont want to play DDO the trading and economic fantasy game. I want to kill things and take thier stuff, not trade components with my neighbor and make stuff we use only to get more components to make more stuff. I saw this trend coming with the whole dragon scale armor deal. I hit TOR 20 times and pulled 4 scales total. Are you kidding me? Talk about grind :)

Different types of players want different things from thier MMO. Because the LOTRO people think crafting and simple combat is cool doesnt mean the DDO people want the same thing. My buddy played Ultima Online and got me to try it years ago. I built a toon and got to it. I needed a weapon so I asked someone how do I make money to buy a weapon? He told me I should either get a job in a shop, or go out and chop wood in the forrest to sell for pennies. I tried NWN and went in a server and got docked xp in the first few minutes cause I was running.......not walking.......from map to map. Real people dont run they told me.

My point is that the Devs should accentuate the differences between MMOs, not minimize them. I vote thumbs down for crafting and two big thumbs up for killing some nasty and TAKING his awesome item :)