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harold2560
05-14-2008, 11:59 PM
Why cant you kill Toeron Rimond? My party beat on him for 30 mintues with TONS of firewalls, tons of beating with transmuters and TONS of damage....YOU cant get him past 45% health when you do he auto heals back to 55% or so! what gives?

dragnmoon
05-15-2008, 12:04 AM
Why cant you kill Toeron Rimond? My party beat on him for 30 mintues with TONS of firewalls, tons of beating with transmuters and TONS of damage....YOU cant get him past 45% health when you do he auto heals back to 55% or so! what gives?

When I play anything but my rogue... he is a pain on Elite....But always beat him... A Bard Helps..

When I play My rogue.. No problems,

Wizzly_Bear
05-15-2008, 12:06 AM
you need more dps. its doable, just have some awesome dps to get him past that threshold.

harold2560
05-15-2008, 12:06 AM
we had a wiz a sorc two GOOD fighters a cleric and a bard. we had a perfect party. THis is not the first time i have experiences this what i am calling a "bug"

I love this game and will not switch to any other game as my main game.... but i do get frustrated from time to time.

Wizzly_Bear
05-15-2008, 12:08 AM
we had a wiz a sorc two GOOD fighters a cleric and a bard. we had a perfect party. THis is not the first time i have experiences this what i am calling a "bug"

I love this game and will not switch to any other game as my main game.... but i do get frustrated from time to time.
seriously, its not a bug. your dps wasnt high enough. i just beat it again yesterday.

harold2560
05-15-2008, 12:08 AM
we had tons of DPS.....multpile crit firewalls from both casters going at 100points +a pop.....me and the other fighter doing 60+ a swing. we did tons of damage.

Wizzly_Bear
05-15-2008, 12:11 AM
we had tons of DPS.....multpile crit firewalls from both casters going at 100points +a pop.....me and the other fighter doing 60+ a swing. we did tons of damage.
doesnt sound like tons of damage to me. sounds like pretty average damage, no offense. you need to step it up if youre going to beat him on e.

Elaril
05-15-2008, 12:11 AM
He can heal himself. What can you do? Just gotta keep on beating on him until he dies. Elite isn't supposed to be easy.

harold2560
05-15-2008, 12:16 AM
dude, you were not in the party you have no idea what you are talking about with how much damage my group did. i know what good dps is, i am not a noob. The difference between that redname on hard and on elite is way way way too much for me to beleive its not f'ed up. there are so many other bugs in the game why should i believe this isnt bugged? for crying out loud we still get stuck on the ladder in the waterworks quests.

Charlemagne2
05-15-2008, 12:30 AM
Running devils on elite takes serious dps.. Casters with multiple 300 pt crit fire walls, barbs criting for 200, and cones of cold crits in 450-900 range are what it takes to pwn him.

Aranticus
05-15-2008, 12:44 AM
dude, you were not in the party you have no idea what you are talking about with how much damage my group did. i know what good dps is, i am not a noob. The difference between that redname on hard and on elite is way way way too much for me to beleive its not f'ed up. there are so many other bugs in the game why should i believe this isnt bugged? for crying out loud we still get stuck on the ladder in the waterworks quests.

Toeron Rimond is resistant to fire. firewalls that crit for 100+? my caster's firewall crits for 300+ normal, recorded 1200 on a fire-susceptible mummy even. what it means is that firewall is not the best way to do this fight! same goes for other fire spells. the only reason to use firewall is to get the agro so that the melees can block him in (that will change in the next mod). have all you buffing spells on the melees you can muster, ie prayer, rage, constant haste. have the caster switch to non-fire spells ie magic missile, force missle, cone of cold, polar ray, etc. you will find that while the firewall and melees deal consistent dps, the other spells you are using will be able to overcome his healing ability and to bring him down. the cleric can play a role to. searing light, nimbus of light are not resisted by Toeron.

that is dps. and to stress what others have said so far again..... you simply did not have sufficent dps. you think you did....

Sydril
05-15-2008, 12:45 AM
I just ran that quest on elite with 3 guildies the other night. 1 cleric, 1 battle bard, 1 tank and 1 rogue. we tore him apart. Its doable, you just need the right party and some serious dps.

sirgog
05-15-2008, 12:49 AM
The main factor I found in killing him was making sure that the melee-types are actually connecting with him.

He has quite a high AC, as well as a DR that I suspect is 30/cold iron and evil (i.e. practically only transmuters work on him)

Fighting him with Disector (who has quite a few AP invested in Sneak Attack Accuracy), I found that I was hitting regularly when buffed, when the aggro was on someone else and I swung with two +5 transmuters. But whenever I took the aggro over, or the time I died and re-engaged before recasting GH, I found it much harder to connect. Less hits = much, much less damage - you may want to consider turning off Power Attack for this fight. Having one party member using a weapon of Destruction, or using Sunder, is very worthwhile too.

The fight took about 90 seconds, and the aggro was on our spellcaster most of the time (think they died 3 times and used about 1000SP on Firewalls and one Acid Fog).

Depravity
05-15-2008, 12:55 AM
Don't forget some acid - it's not much damage, but maximized/potencied it's a nice fire&forget bit of recurring damage.

Wizzly_Bear
05-15-2008, 01:22 AM
dude, you were not in the party you have no idea what you are talking about with how much damage my group did.
umm....i do know what im talking about in relation to how much damage your group was doing bc you told us, and bc you couldnt kill him.


i know what good dps is, i am not a noob.
i am certain that you are no noob, but i am also certain that the dps you described is rather mediocre.


The difference between that redname on hard and on elite is way way way too much for me to beleive its not f'ed up. there are so many other bugs in the game why should i believe this isnt bugged? for crying out loud we still get stuck on the ladder in the waterworks quests.
bc several others are telling you that he can be killed rather easily with a group with high enough dps.


Running devils on elite takes serious dps.. Casters with multiple 300 pt crit fire walls, barbs criting for 200, and cones of cold crits in 450-900 range are what it takes to pwn him.
qft. this is an example of good dps. this can even be improved upon by keeping him in acid fog/acid arrow.


Toeron Rimond is resistant to fire. firewalls that crit for 100+? my caster's firewall crits for 300+ normal, recorded 1200 on a fire-susceptible mummy even. what it means is that firewall is not the best way to do this fight! same goes for other fire spells. the only reason to use firewall is to get the agro so that the melees can block him in (that will change in the next mod). have all you buffing spells on the melees you can muster, ie prayer, rage, constant haste. have the caster switch to non-fire spells ie magic missile, force missle, cone of cold, polar ray, etc. you will find that while the firewall and melees deal consistent dps, the other spells you are using will be able to overcome his healing ability and to bring him down. the cleric can play a role to. searing light, nimbus of light are not resisted by Toeron.

that is dps. and to stress what others have said so far again..... you simply did not have sufficent dps. you think you did....
qft


The main factor I found in killing him was making sure that the melee-types are actually connecting with him.

He has quite a high AC, as well as a DR that I suspect is 30/cold iron and evil (i.e. practically only transmuters work on him)

Fighting him with Disector (who has quite a few AP invested in Sneak Attack Accuracy), I found that I was hitting regularly when buffed, when the aggro was on someone else and I swung with two +5 transmuters. But whenever I took the aggro over, or the time I died and re-engaged before recasting GH, I found it much harder to connect. Less hits = much, much less damage - you may want to consider turning off Power Attack for this fight. Having one party member using a weapon of Destruction, or using Sunder, is very worthwhile too.

The fight took about 90 seconds, and the aggro was on our spellcaster most of the time (think they died 3 times and used about 1000SP on Firewalls and one Acid Fog).
qft

twix
05-15-2008, 05:16 AM
I just spam burning hands and it powns him.

Dexxaan
05-15-2008, 07:33 AM
Get a TWF with Transmuters, the occasional destruction, perma-haste (of course please don't be telling the casters how to play their characters....they may get offended :rolleyes: - see "Sick of" thread....) Firewalls are pointless, Acid Fog as someone pointed out is very nice, Searing Light, Nimbus, and Bard Buffs if you have them.

Other than that I'd say your problem is.......you need more DPS? :eek:

MrCow
05-15-2008, 07:44 AM
If you can't do ~600+ damage within about 3 seconds then he will continue to live. Also, if those arcanes start attempting to stack too many walls of fire or if he is teleporting around then those tend to do insufficient damage. I know that when I soloed this on my sorcerer a while back the only way that I could take him down was to get him to stand still and proceed to keep about 6 walls of fire on him at a time.


Firewalls are pointless

I disagree, being I've taken him down solely using that one spell. :p

Murgatroyd
05-15-2008, 07:44 AM
Funny...no one mentioned blade barrier. :)

MrCow
05-15-2008, 07:46 AM
Blade Barrier loses some of its luster on healing/regenerating critters that don't always like to move.

Murgatroyd
05-15-2008, 07:50 AM
Blade Barrier loses some of its luster on healing/regenerating critters that don't always like to move.

Actually we have it down to an art, so we use BB in combination with scorching ray and cone of cold. No need to pin him anywhere, but it's fun to see the cleric run for dear life. Hit him with exhaustion and he slows down enough that the melee can get a couple of swings while the cleric runs by.

On any other difficulty but elite, just the BB's are enough. :)

Judo
05-15-2008, 08:05 AM
ive solo'd him on elite with my cleric, with bb, you just have to do it right:)

esoitl
05-15-2008, 08:15 AM
i've run groups that don't have the DPS for Cabal elite but i never call that a bug(it's pathetic but i still see them.... usually involves a fighter rolling a lame repeater build)

self healers are a ***** o deal with but it is far from a bug

Dexxaan
05-15-2008, 08:59 AM
If you can't do ~600+ damage within about 3 seconds then he will continue to live. Also, if those arcanes start attempting to stack too many walls of fire or if he is teleporting around then those tend to do insufficient damage. I know that when I soloed this on my sorcerer a while back the only way that I could take him down was to get him to stand still and proceed to keep about 6 walls of fire on him at a time.

I disagree, being I've taken him down solely using that one spell. :p

Solo´d on Elite? With Firewalls? Impressive.

I am humbled, and shall question thee no longer.......

Aspenor
05-15-2008, 09:17 AM
100+ points of damage is like a scratch to Taeron.

If your arcanes don't need to have at least 1 or 2 crit firewalls on him doing full damage, and I'd recommend scorching ray to add to the DPS. It's not THAT difficult.

GrayOldDruid
05-15-2008, 09:24 AM
Toeron Rimond is resistant to fire. firewalls that crit for 100+? my caster's firewall crits for 300+ normal, recorded 1200 on a fire-susceptible mummy even. what it means is that firewall is not the best way to do this fight! same goes for other fire spells. the only reason to use firewall is to get the agro so that the melees can block him in (that will change in the next mod). have all you buffing spells on the melees you can muster, ie prayer, rage, constant haste. have the caster switch to non-fire spells ie magic missile, force missle, cone of cold, polar ray, etc. you will find that while the firewall and melees deal consistent dps, the other spells you are using will be able to overcome his healing ability and to bring him down. the cleric can play a role to. searing light, nimbus of light are not resisted by Toeron.

that is dps. and to stress what others have said so far again..... you simply did not have sufficent dps. you think you did....

THANK YOU!!

Another problem with firewalls is that if he is not right inside one, it doesn't do anything to him. My Sorc had down several firewalls, but no damage was showing... he was an inch out of center, maybe. Acid Fog, however, was hitting him hard and red. Was in a party last night where firewall did damage, but think it was on normal... on hard and elite, I will have to go in with my sorc and try again, but I haven't seen firewall do much to him.
Think I will make this a project.... find out what spells work great and what spells don't work good or at all. On each difficulty level.

artvan_delet
05-15-2008, 09:37 AM
DOn't "fix" this quest. He is a challenge. It's elite. There should be some tough fights in this game on elite. Please don't "fix" this quest.

emsteiner
05-15-2008, 09:40 AM
What bypasses the DR of the other things in there. By that i don't mean the Orthons or Bearded Devils but those other annoying things that turn into glowing balls

Rameses
05-15-2008, 09:50 AM
we had a wiz a sorc two GOOD fighters a cleric and a bard. we had a perfect party. THis is not the first time i have experiences this what i am calling a "bug"

I love this game and will not switch to any other game as my main game.... but i do get frustrated from time to time.

Were the Fighters DPS or Power5 Fighters? Only reason I ask is PuG'n a Fighter/Paladin/Barbarian hell even a Ranger these days is a Craps Shoot. You may get a good DPS build or you'll end up with a Crappy Power5 Build that lacks any real DPS.
But I do concur with Wizzly Bear you were lacking serious DPS.
Remember 2 Fighters does not always = DPS.

I am, Rameses!

Mhykke
05-15-2008, 09:51 AM
As mentioned, not enough:

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii143/mykeuva/308d47f9db87.jpg

Aspenor
05-15-2008, 09:52 AM
What bypasses the DR of the other things in there. By that i don't mean the Orthons or Bearded Devils but those other annoying things that turn into glowing balls

They have DR/evil, some of them even have DR/cold iron & evil, from what I have heard.

sirgog
05-15-2008, 09:55 AM
What bypasses the DR of the other things in there. By that i don't mean the Orthons or Bearded Devils but those other annoying things that turn into glowing balls

Evil + Cold Iron is required to beat Eladrin DR.

In practice, that means transmuters, unless you happen to have one of the very old-school Unholy weapons, and it is also cold iron.

Wizzly_Bear
05-15-2008, 09:56 AM
As mentioned, not enough:

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii143/mykeuva/308d47f9db87.jpg

hehe :D

Eladrin
05-15-2008, 10:02 AM
I have a monk on the Path of Inevitable Dominion hit him with Touch of Despair, so he's healing at half rate. ;)

Wizzly_Bear
05-15-2008, 10:03 AM
I have a monk on the Path of Inevitable Dominion hit him with Touch of Despair, so he's healing at half rate. ;)
tease :p

MrCow
05-15-2008, 10:03 AM
I have a monk on the Path of Inevitable Dominion hit him with Touch of Despair, so he's healing at half rate.

I find the irony that someone named "Eladrin" is commenting on how best to kill his/her own brethren. :p

Aspenor
05-15-2008, 10:04 AM
I have a monk on the Path of Inevitable Dominion hit him with Touch of Despair, so he's healing at half rate. ;)

He's compiling!!! Somebody catch him!!!!

fishbai8
05-15-2008, 10:05 AM
lol nice way to let this guy know how to exploit

clearly, this is exploiting according to KK

but i guess, you can do what you want afterall, its none of my business, but hey im just letting you know


using terrain to your advantage is good tactics, if u stand in a spot he cant get a good angle to cast on u and stack firewalls on him its realistic even to PnP, if they say its exploiting then they can go ...... themselves ban me and i'll go play age of conan

jaitee
05-15-2008, 10:08 AM
using terrain to your advantage is good tactics, if u stand in a spot he cant get a good angle to cast on u and stack firewalls on him its realistic even to PnP, if they say its exploiting then they can go ...... themselves ban me and i'll go play age of conan

The following activities are considered to be violations of the Terms of Service:

* Using summoned items or creatures to trigger a game bug
* Purposely using any method that causes monsters or NPCs to become completely unresponsive.
* Bypassing a door, forcefield, barrier or other geometry which causes monsters or quest events on the other side to become unresponsive.
* Purposely causing monsters to become stuck or unresponsive on geometry.
* Using a game bug to remove any or all danger to yourself and/or party.
* Using any method to repeatedly loot a chest without repeating the quest objectives/content/monster encounters associated with the chest.
* Using any method to loot a chest or accept quest reward with any character who did not complete the related quest objective from start to finish.
* Bypassing a quest timer which allows you to complete a quest or objective more often than allowed.
* Any method of removing quest-only weapons, soul stones, or items from a quest instance and/or selling them on via the Marketplace or Auction House.
* Communicating details on how to exploit, or indicating quests which may be exploited in public. (Including in the LFM panel. Vague comments on your play style are welcome in the Who Panel or your Character Profile.)




lol, 4th one down

Zenako
05-15-2008, 10:14 AM
In general my Paly's favorite weapon against alot of these mobs is his +X transmuter of pure good. Works fine on a lot of things, and just removing DR from the equation is worth a LOT of net DPS.

Same sort of rant used to happen with Church and the Cult Vampire. Just need to use the right spells for NET DPS effects. Pumped up Searing Light does great damage to Vampires (purple). Toggle spam that and Mass Cures and Divine Light effects and that is a hurting vampire. (Perhaps drop a pumped HEAL or too as well....)

The Eladrin are tough, as are any self healers. They can be intrupted, so constant dps is important. Effects which slow them help let melees stay in contact.

I have run with some people who thought that they had good dps, until they saw what others could do. Had a random melee join a Tor run a few months back, he was quite boa****l of his skills. He was apparently using some decent gear that he mentioned, but was simply not in the same league as some others in the group. Perhaps with those he ran with most of the time he was king, but not this time. Funny how the Ranger, Rogue and other Fighter all were doing a lot more to the mobs, needed a fraction of the healing he did, and so on. He was verbally astounded at how quick we could kill giants. Umm, yeah, this is normal, those are just giants...they die. (we were getting a couple of guild members blooded).

fishbai8
05-15-2008, 10:16 AM
"Purposely causing monsters to become stuck or unresponsive on geometry."

OK lets see... he still sasts spells on u just cant hit u with most of them so not unresponsive. Stuck? well he isnt stuck he can move freely and can even teleport he just usualy doesnt

jaitee
05-15-2008, 10:19 AM
"Purposely causing monsters to become stuck or unresponsive on geometry."

OK lets see... he still sasts spells on u just cant hit u with most of them so not unresponsive. Stuck? well he isnt stuck he can move freely and can even teleport he just usualy doesnt

lol hey i dont disagree with you, some of those on the list, seem rather ...well

anyways, lets not derail this thread

sorry if i offended you, was just letting you know about the above

Talon_Moonshadow
05-15-2008, 10:40 AM
dude, you were not in the party you have no idea what you are talking about with how much damage my group did. i know what good dps is, i am not a noob. The difference between that redname on hard and on elite is way way way too much for me to beleive its not f'ed up. there are so many other bugs in the game why should i believe this isnt bugged? for crying out loud we still get stuck on the ladder in the waterworks quests.

I think they do know what they are talking about.
I've done it on elite twice. And I saw the same thing you did.
he is resistant to fire damage. The firewalls are probably not enough. When we finally beat him, I saw that the mages were using multiple disintegrates, in addition to the firewalls.

He's not the only monster in the game that does that healing thing.....he's just probably the worst. But then it is an 18th lvl quest.
Personally I think it is a cheap game design, but it is not a bug. Pretty sure it is working as intended.

But I understand your frustration. Nothing else in the game is as difficult.....especially nothing else in the same quest.
I think there are a couple de-buffs you can use to help....not exactly sure which ones work on red named though.

Talon_Moonshadow
05-15-2008, 10:49 AM
There might be a current bug that causes firewalls to sometimes not do any damage.
Some people mentioned this a few times on the forums, and I've seen it happen too.....

Yaga_Nub
05-15-2008, 10:54 AM
There might be a current bug that causes firewalls to sometimes not do any damage.
Some people mentioned this a few times on the forums, and I've seen it happen too.....

Is it a bug called "very high fire resistance?"

GrayOldDruid
05-15-2008, 11:02 AM
What bypasses the DR of the other things in there. By that i don't mean the Orthons or Bearded Devils but those other annoying things that turn into glowing balls

When playing my ranger in there, I use my wounding of puncturing bow on them. Draw off lots of aggro that way... sometimes unfortunately. But last time I played it, The named up in the tower with the cleric to spam-heal him, I killed him and his cleric each of the four or five runs, using the W/P bow with manyshot on.

As for magic that hurts them... gotta have massive (or lucky) spell penetration or a nice ranger/melee with shattermantle for any kind of insta-kill. Acid seems to hit them 'red' - have tried mind-fog to mess with their casting, but need to get my DC up so they won't save so often.

Talon_Moonshadow
05-15-2008, 11:12 AM
Is it a bug called "very high fire resistance?"

No........
but if you can get the guy to move back and forth a little it starts taking damage.
And it had nothing to do with RWtD.

Doesn't happen often......so it might even be a lag thing....actually reminds me of the arrows that shoot with no roll.
I've even seen some melee attacks with no attack roll lately, but there were some obstructions in the area, and moving seemed to fix it.

MrCow
05-15-2008, 11:28 AM
As for magic that hurts [eladrin]...

Cloudkill is the no-fail magic to kill a non-red named eladrin. Coupled with a potent web and they tend to be rather tame.

Likewise, a cleric could probably use the "Poison" spell with good success in here being that has no SR check.

mehlinda
05-15-2008, 11:37 AM
Try extended max empowered blade barriers... there are several clerics on Thelanis who solo him regularly on hard and have done so on elite... Bandjr for one and Toadstomper for another in case you're wondering... the way they do it is to get 3 going inside the door around the tree and they run circles around the inside perimeter of the three and he eventually goes down...melee is not going to keep up with his healing often...quicken is a must and so are lots of hp... form a triangle with the BB's ,, run the inside of the circle and you can do it... do not fog the blades,, you don't want to slow him down...if you have casters with firewalls they can add them to the inside part of the circle and he will go down super fast ( well comparatively )... important to note,, it will take more than 3 bb's,, you will have to recast.. and be sure not to overlap them or they won't work... gl

Desteria
05-15-2008, 11:37 AM
we had tons of DPS.....multpile crit firewalls from both casters going at 100points +a pop.....me and the other fighter doing 60+ a swing. we did tons of damage.

IF the Crit fw were onyl goign at 100 pop then the non crit FW wer dogin NOTHIGN to him, and your casters sucked balls a Crit FW shoudl be doign 250ish - his resist still puts it over 200 from my memory.

your DPS was just not as strong as you thought it was.

Aspenor
05-15-2008, 11:40 AM
IF the Crit fw were onyl goign at 100 pop then the non crit FW wer dogin NOTHIGN to him, and your casters sucked balls a Crit FW shoudl be doign 250ish - his resist still puts it over 200 from my memory.

your DPS was just not as strong as you thought it was.

Personally I am not satisfied with my firewalls vs Taeron unless I have at least 2 procs of 230+ damage per damage round. Agreed with Des.

Mhykke
05-15-2008, 11:44 AM
Just use a magic missle clicky. Might need 2 though on elite. ;)

Borror0
05-15-2008, 11:44 AM
The following activities are considered to be violations of the Terms of Service:


Nah, he can still self-heal, as a reult it's not an expoit but a "tactic ("cheesy" or not), that may or may not be "fixed" in the future".

"Perching" on geometry to get a better ranged shot at a monster, as long as the monster remains responsive."

Murgatroyd
05-15-2008, 12:18 PM
Try extended max empowered blade barriers... there are several clerics on Thelanis who solo him regularly on hard and have done so on elite... Bandjr for one and Toadstomper for another in case you're wondering... the way they do it is to get 3 going inside the door around the tree and they run circles around the inside perimeter of the three and he eventually goes down...melee is not going to keep up with his healing often...quicken is a must and so are lots of hp... form a triangle with the BB's ,, run the inside of the circle and you can do it... do not fog the blades,, you don't want to slow him down...if you have casters with firewalls they can add them to the inside part of the circle and he will go down super fast ( well comparatively )... important to note,, it will take more than 3 bb's,, you will have to recast.. and be sure not to overlap them or they won't work... gl

Hey! I feel left out... :)

For those who find the orange named a bit before annoying, 2 tactics work really well.
1. W/P bow with manyshot as GrayOldDruid stated earlier.
2. Feeblemind him and his cleric cronies so that they cannot cast heal. I tried it yesterday on elite and it was funny seeing them trying to come melee us. Since light ray is a spell like ability, they couldn't use that either. You just have to bypass their SR.

Aspenor
05-15-2008, 12:19 PM
Hey! I feel left out... :)

For those who find the orange named a bit before annoying, 2 tactics work really well.
1. W/P bow with manyshot as GrayOldDruid stated earlier.
2. Feeblemind him and his cleric cronies so that they cannot cast heal. I tried it yesterday on elite and it was funny seeing them trying to come melee us. Since light ray is a spell like ability, they couldn't use that either. You just have to bypass their SR.

Are we talking about the Orange named?????

Finger of Death the Ghaele cleric that casts mass death ward on the bunch, then FOD the orange named. :p

Kaldais
05-15-2008, 12:33 PM
Hey! I feel left out... :)

For those who find the orange named a bit before annoying, 2 tactics work really well.
1. W/P bow with manyshot as GrayOldDruid stated earlier.
2. Feeblemind him and his cleric cronies so that they cannot cast heal. I tried it yesterday on elite and it was funny seeing them trying to come melee us. Since light ray is a spell like ability, they couldn't use that either. You just have to bypass their SR.

Feeblemind does not drop wisdom score, it only works against arcane casters, not clerics.

Aspenor
05-15-2008, 12:36 PM
Feeblemind does not drop wisdom score, it only works against arcane casters, not clerics.

This is just tacitly false. Feeblemind works on clerics as well. They happen to have extraordinary will saves, however....

Kaldais
05-15-2008, 12:38 PM
This is just tacitly false. Feeblemind works on clerics as well. They happen to have extraordinary will saves, however....

Sure you can cast on clerics, but clerics doesn't need int or cha to cast their spells. Feeblemind does not drop wisdom scores, and feeblemind does not prevent spellcasting, it only drops Int/Cha to 1.

Fanabeam
05-15-2008, 12:40 PM
This is just tacitly false. Feeblemind works on clerics as well. They happen to have extraordinary will saves, however....

Can you explain how this would stop them from casting though?
Feeblemind drops the CHA and INT to 1, but leaves the wisdom alone by my understanding. They should still be able to cast Clerical spells.
My cleric has never failed a will save vs. feeblemind, so I've never had to experience it for myself.

Aspenor
05-15-2008, 12:46 PM
Sure you can cast on clerics, but clerics doesn't need int or cha to cast their spells. Feeblemind does not drop wisdom scores, and feeblemind does not prevent spellcasting, it only drops Int/Cha to 1.


Can you explain how this would stop them from casting though?
Feeblemind drops the CHA and INT to 1, but leaves the wisdom alone by my understanding. They should still be able to cast Clerical spells.
My cleric has never failed a will save vs. feeblemind, so I've never had to experience it for myself.

I'm just telling you how it works in DDO, not how the rule reads.

Feeblemind also shouldn't prevent a beholder from using his gaze attacks, but it does in DDO. /shrug

Starrloom
05-15-2008, 12:47 PM
Try extended max empowered blade barriers... there are several clerics on Thelanis who solo him regularly on hard and have done so on elite... Bandjr for one and Toadstomper for another in case you're wondering... the way they do it is to get 3 going inside the door around the tree and they run circles around the inside perimeter of the three and he eventually goes down...melee is not going to keep up with his healing often...quicken is a must and so are lots of hp... form a triangle with the BB's ,, run the inside of the circle and you can do it... do not fog the blades,, you don't want to slow him down...if you have casters with firewalls they can add them to the inside part of the circle and he will go down super fast ( well comparatively )... important to note,, it will take more than 3 bb's,, you will have to recast.. and be sure not to overlap them or they won't work... gl


Hey don't forget me there and thats on my gimped 28 pt build cleric... actually you can even use just 2 as long as they are placed well......3 works better - and ya unless you crit you usually need 4-6 BB's

Milolyen
05-15-2008, 12:51 PM
Rangers cast divine magic and thier ability to cast is given via wisdom as well. Belive me feeblemind does work on us so I would imagine it would work on clerics as well if they failed their save. If I am not mistaken you have to have an int of 3 or higher in order to verbally comunicate correct? While I am not a rule guru I belive I remember reading something to this effect. Then doesn't all spells have a somatic (that is the verbal correct?) component?

Milolyen

Aspenor
05-15-2008, 12:53 PM
Rangers cast divine magic and thier ability to cast is given via wisdom as well. Belive me feeblemind does work on us so I would imagine it would work on clerics as well if they failed their save. If I am not mistaken you have to have an int of 3 or higher in order to verbally comunicate correct? While I am not a rule guru I belive I remember reading something to this effect. Then doesn't all spells have a somatic (that is the verbal correct?) component?

Milolyen

This would be a good explanation for why it affects divine spellcasters. All I know is that casting feeblemind on an NPC cleric, he no longer casts spells. Same with pallies, rangers, etc.

Desteria
05-15-2008, 12:53 PM
Sure you can cast on clerics, but clerics doesn't need int or cha to cast their spells. Feeblemind does not drop wisdom scores, and feeblemind does not prevent spellcasting, it only drops Int/Cha to 1.


As per PnP feeble mind is workign as intyended with the possibel beholder exception, would have to look closer in to that.
Per PnP Feeblemind Drops Int and Cha scores to 1 IT also SPECIFIES it prevents the casting of any spells. If you wotn belive me look it up in the SRD on the wizards site.
NOTE: with a int score of 1 you LOSE the ability to speak language, one could asume this prevent cohrent enough thought to cast any spell even clerical ones you just cant form the correct prayers even in your own mind even if you stil lhave the casting stat.

Talon_Moonshadow
05-15-2008, 12:55 PM
I think he was talking about a red named guy.

Tons of stuff works on Orange named. But for the rednamed guy it's mostly all DPS. I think all you can do is exhaust him and slow him down......and find damge he is not resistant to.

Desteria
05-15-2008, 12:59 PM
Rangers cast divine magic and thier ability to cast is given via wisdom as well. Belive me feeblemind does work on us so I would imagine it would work on clerics as well if they failed their save. If I am not mistaken you have to have an int of 3 or higher in order to verbally comunicate correct? While I am not a rule guru I belive I remember reading something to this effect. Then doesn't all spells have a somatic (that is the verbal correct?) component?

Milolyen

Spell Componets are as follows:
Verbal (V) = spoken words phrases prayer arcane chants etc
Somatic (S) = havign to do with Movment, ie hand ghesters doign the hokie pokie etc.
Material (M) = Somethign Phisical in DDO IE bat guano and sulfpher(the PnP Fireball component)
Divine Focus (DF) = A clerics Holy symboll, druids holly and berries etc
Focus (F) = A more expensive item that is not consumed in the casting Like a Large Mirror worth 1000gp for the scry spell.

Kaldais
05-15-2008, 01:00 PM
NOTE: with a int score of 1 you LOSE the ability to speak language, one could asume this prevent cohrent enough thought to cast any spell even clerical ones you just cant form the correct prayers even in your own mind even if you stil lhave the casting stat.

Didn't think of that, good explanation. I did notice I did not suffer from ASF when using spells without Somatic components. I wonder if you can cast cleric spells under feeblemind without verbal components?

Zenako
05-15-2008, 01:18 PM
You cannot cast spells in DDO while feeblminded.

Arcane, Divine, whatever, no spell casting.

Clerics, Rangers, Paly's, Bards, Wiz and Sorcs all cannot cast spells while feebleminded.

Heal spell from a friendly source (or Divine Sovereignty) will cure it....

Melkor_The_Mighty
05-15-2008, 01:21 PM
Funny...no one mentioned blade barrier. :)

Real Funny, the best spell in game bar none.


Blade Barrier loses some of its luster on healing/regenerating critters that don't always like to move.

Your correct however knowing they need to run in and out of the BB for it to be most effective means you need to have aggro drawing skills ( searing light) and kiting skills and I have no trouble whatsoever pulling aggro from the so-called DPS melee's ( much to their chagrin.


ive solo'd him on elite with my cleric, with bb, you just have to do it right:)

I did this quest 3 times, once on normal, twice on elite, one elite run I let the almighty casters and DPS'ers do their thing and it took forever, next elite run I did my own thing and shreaded and seared him with BB and searing light, was much much faster and didnt have to did in bags for major mana pots to heal the major mana sponges.


I have a monk on the Path of Inevitable Dominion hit him with Touch of Despair, so he's healing at half rate. ;)

2 words... KIN KILLER!!!

PS.. 1/2 Orc Samurais are way cooler than any monk will ever be.... make paid expansion and charge 100$ so I can get new class and race ... It puts the Gnomes and Druids in the bag, it throws the bag away.


Try extended max empowered blade barriers... there are several clerics on Thelanis who solo him regularly on hard and have done so on elite... Bandjr for one and Toadstomper for another in case you're wondering... the way they do it is to get 3 going inside the door around the tree and they run circles around the inside perimeter of the three and he eventually goes down...melee is not going to keep up with his healing often...quicken is a must and so are lots of hp... form a triangle with the BB's ,, run the inside of the circle and you can do it... do not fog the blades,, you don't want to slow him down...if you have casters with firewalls they can add them to the inside part of the circle and he will go down super fast ( well comparatively )... important to note,, it will take more than 3 bb's,, you will have to recast.. and be sure not to overlap them or they won't work... gl

Max, Empowered, extended, Sup Pot 6, quickened, hasted BB for the WIN! Any cleric thats doing a lvl 18 elite quest that doesnt know how to kite and properly lay down a BB isn't making a maximum contribution. Biggest Peev is the casters that lay down spells to slow or stop mobs in BB's. I wish they could haste the mobs instead of make every effort to slow them, 2nd biggest peev is the 700 hp marshmallows that fight outside the BB's (or in other quests the FW's). A wise cleric once said "500 mana spend on BB's is better than 1500 spent on heals"....

Lorien_the_First_One
05-15-2008, 01:22 PM
The following activities are considered to be violations of the Terms of Service:

And you got that list where?



* Purposely causing monsters to become stuck or unresponsive on geometry.

Ya, the "shield block and firewall" crowd might disagree with you on that one

Borror0
05-15-2008, 01:32 PM
And you got that list where?

Here. (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=146613)


Ya, the "shield block and firewall" crowd might disagree with you on that one

Nope, the monster can still respond, he can move, attack, cast spells, etc.

That fits in the tactics (cheesy or not) that may or may not be fixed in the future. Heck, they'll make that mobs attack the sheild wall in module 7!!

Milolyen
05-15-2008, 01:40 PM
Nope, the monster can still respond, he can move, attack, cast spells, etc.

That fits in the tactics (cheesy or not) that may or may not be fixed in the future. Heck, they'll make that mobs attack the sheild wall in module 7!!

Possibly, If I am not mistaken they have stated they where putting in new AI to make them be more aggressive in trying to get to their target on several updates. Not saying they won't fineally get it right this time though.

Milolyen

Coldin
05-15-2008, 01:45 PM
I have a monk on the Path of Inevitable Dominion hit him with Touch of Despair, so he's healing at half rate. ;)

This sentence just isn't making much sense to me...

Did the monk hit him with Touch of Despair? What's the Path of Inevitable Dominion? Would that be a Line of Enhancements? Is that what gave the monk the ability to hit folks with Touch of Despair?

And most of all, why do I have to actually keep guessing at all this stuff?

Laith
05-15-2008, 01:49 PM
Heck, they'll make that mobs attack the sheild wall in module 7!!
yeah, making it so that the "shield" part of the wall is actually pertinent. ;)


This sentence just isn't making much sense to me...

Did the monk hit him with Touch of Despair? What's the Path of Inevitable Dominion? Would that be a Line of Enhancements? Is that what gave the monk the ability to hit folks with Touch of Despair? seems you made more sense of it than you expected to ;)


And most of all, why do I have to actually keep guessing at all this stuff?cuz munk week won't mean much if they already told us everything?

Garth_of_Sarlona
05-15-2008, 01:57 PM
When I'm running with elite devils, I ask the arcane dps to hold off until we have the melee dps doing steady damage - i.e. once the melee dps have laid a destruction, sunder, ooze sunder and curse on the dude and we can actually see his HP going down. Then the arcane dps kicks in and we're all hitting at the same time (again, fire wall crits, acid fog, cone of cold, all good here) There's nothing worse than the arcane dps starting off too early, and the melee dps having to run around and try and get a sunder/destruction on him and only getting up to steady state just to see the firewalls vanish.

Garth

Murgatroyd
05-15-2008, 02:00 PM
Sure you can cast on clerics, but clerics doesn't need int or cha to cast their spells. Feeblemind does not drop wisdom scores, and feeblemind does not prevent spellcasting, it only drops Int/Cha to 1.

Go into the Lobster and have an arcane feeblemind you. Then try casting a spell. You will get the "you cannot can while feebleminded, in an anti-magic area" stuff.


Are we talking about the Orange named?????

Finger of Death the Ghaele cleric that casts mass death ward on the bunch, then FOD the orange named. :p

Nah he was originally talking about the red named, but I just brought up the orange named because if he gets is DW, he can be a pain to kill as well :)

Borror0
05-15-2008, 02:06 PM
Not saying they won't fineally get it right this time though.

Yes, but previously, that was to refer to not getting stuck in geometry. This time, it's a fix to shield walls exclusivly. It was even worded as such. I fail to find the exact line in the current WDAs, but I remember Eladrin mentioning it in one of his most recent posts:



A role that will work better come M7, when preventing monsters from reaching their target will generate aggression.

Borror0
05-15-2008, 02:08 PM
yeah, making it so that the "shield" part of the wall is actually pertinent. ;)

Yeah, and also not making of it a totally risk-free strategy... or at least, it'll require more resources and will be less cheesy (but still boring).

Josh
05-15-2008, 03:27 PM
Can you explain how this would stop them from casting though?
Feeblemind drops the CHA and INT to 1, but leaves the wisdom alone by my understanding. They should still be able to cast Clerical spells.
My cleric has never failed a will save vs. feeblemind, so I've never had to experience it for myself.


Because the spell specifically states in it's description that it prevents spell casting. It doesn't matter if you are an arcane or a divine caster, although arcane casters take -4 on their save.

Josh
05-15-2008, 03:28 PM
This sentence just isn't making much sense to me...

Did the monk hit him with Touch of Despair? What's the Path of Inevitable Dominion? Would that be a Line of Enhancements? Is that what gave the monk the ability to hit folks with Touch of Despair?

And most of all, why do I have to actually keep guessing at all this stuff?

Because he's cool. He's "vast and mysterious", just like the two-year anniversary lagfest, I mean "event".

Beherit_Baphomar
05-15-2008, 05:16 PM
we had tons of DPS.....multpile crit firewalls from both casters going at 100points +a pop.....me and the other fighter doing 60+ a swing. we did tons of damage.

Dunno what else has been said in this thread but if yer caster was critting for 100+ on his firewalls then you had a pretty middle of the road caster. My sorc, who isnt all that when it comes to firewalls, will crit for close to 400 a tick.

kyebosh
05-15-2008, 05:19 PM
Not sure if it was mentioned, but Rogue sneak attack bypasses DR of those little floaty things, for whoever asked.

iamsamoth0
05-15-2008, 08:11 PM
Just use a magic missle clicky. Might need 2 though on elite. ;)

My best laugh all day!
Beautiful.

P.S. I also suggest a divine faith clickie, because prayer just might not do it.
And I have no clue who you guys are talking about, I may never even encounter that guy.
But it is good to see people still very invigorated and challenged by the game.
Huzah!

Angelus_dead
05-15-2008, 08:14 PM
Not sure if it was mentioned, but Rogue sneak attack bypasses DR of those little floaty things, for whoever asked.
No, sneak attack never bypasses DR, except in the sense that it increases your total damage.

By the same token you could claim Power Attack or Bard Song bypasses DR.

Korvek
05-15-2008, 08:56 PM
No, sneak attack never bypasses DR, except in the sense that it increases your total damage.

By the same token you could claim Power Attack or Bard Song bypasses DR.

Yes, it does bypass DR, as sneak attack acts as untyped damage on anything vulnerable to critical hits and as long as any fortification is bypassed. For example, if I attack, say, a Bralani with a +5 shortsword, I'll deal the damage from the shortsword, and then a separate number (Most likely around +35 or so) will appear on the end of the list of numbers that pop up. That's also the reason why wounding effects work even if the base physical damage number is 0, because sneak attack applies as an untyped form of physical damage, which bypasses damage reduction.

On the contrary, power attack and bard songs do increase strictly the base physical damage, which is separate from the sneak attack damage effect.

Edit: Though I see how it could be confusing, as there is no separate text within the combat log to indicate that it does anything other than simply increase physical damage.

ahpook
05-15-2008, 09:28 PM
No, sneak attack never bypasses DR, except in the sense that it increases your total damage.

By the same token you could claim Power Attack or Bard Song bypasses DR.

Retracted because I need to retest....

Qzipoun
05-15-2008, 09:42 PM
Yes, it does bypass DR...

You kinda missed the whole point of his post.


Wrong. Sneak attack is extra untyped damage that is never affected by DR.

He never said the sneak attack was affected by DR, he said the sneak attack damage does not affect the bypassing of DR, two very different statements.

ahpook
05-15-2008, 09:54 PM
You kinda missed the whole point of his post.



He never said the sneak attack was affected by DR, he said the sneak attack damage does not affect the bypassing of DR, two very different statements.

Actually, he said "sneak attack never bypasses DR" which is closer to Korvek and my interpretations than yours. However, on second thought, he may be right and I was confused by the display issue. Need to retest...

Borror0
05-15-2008, 10:01 PM
Actually, he said "sneak attack never bypasses DR" which is closer to Korvek and my interpretations than yours. However, on second thought, he may be right and I was confused by the display issue. Need to retest...

The was DR works with sneak attack is simple. DR first romes from your normal, physical attack. Once the "first number" is reduced to zero, it'll start reducing your sneak attack damage. However, sneak attack damage counts as normal damage and will let you landing effect like wounding who requires that you inflict physical damage to a creature.

Geriant
05-16-2008, 12:29 AM
I find the Transmuting of Greater Chaotic Outsider Bane weapon some kind soul left in the House D pawn shop to work marvelously well on him and the other eladrin in the quest. Combine that with a sorcerer who is rather cone of cold happy and it tends to go smoothly. There are times when he teleports over to the sorcerer at the most inopportune time however.

Solmage
05-16-2008, 12:33 AM
Because the spell specifically states in it's description that it prevents spell casting. It doesn't matter if you are an arcane or a divine caster, although arcane casters take -4 on their save.

It has been stated by a dev that this bit isn't working in DDO. Wish it would be added however.


Running devils on elite takes serious dps.. Casters with multiple 300 pt crit fire walls, barbs criting for 200, and cones of cold crits in 450-900 range are what it takes to pwn him.

Yeah, I'm sorry to say but you really did not have uber (or elite) dps, you had 'good' dps only. My non-nuker sorcie is critting for 250 on the firewalls, and he could have had 50% more had I taken empower. Also, the critter needed to be debuffed so the melees could go to town on him, ideally boxing him in inside said 250 per firewalls, while the arcanes spammed 450-900 cones of colds, 400-800 disintegrates, and ~220 dmg scorching rays, or equivalent spells. (lightning bolts, force missiles, etc)

Alternatively, as has been mentioned, a max-empowered blade barrier (ie a nuker cleric) can do insane damage by extending them around the pillar thing. At that time, the casters just add firewalls and the odd ray, trying to do a lot of damage without stealing the clerics aggro, and going all nova when he goes down to 10% or lower.

The devs have stated repeatedly that on these vale quests, and from here on out, elite WILL really mean ELITE. You just got a taste of that.

The elite players of the world thank them =)

Desteria
05-16-2008, 01:43 AM
Didn't think of that, good explanation. I did notice I did not suffer from ASF when using spells without Somatic components. I wonder if you can cast cleric spells under feeblemind without verbal components?

ypu can not as feele mind has a adition line iin it YOU cna not cast any spells... at least in PnP it hase that lien and in DOD it bejaves as if it did so i asum eit works the same.

dragnmoon
05-16-2008, 01:51 AM
ypu can not as feele mind has a adition line iin it YOU cna not cast any spells... at least in PnP it hase that lien and in DOD it bejaves as if it did so i asum eit works the same.

What he said..:rolleyes:

This is from the Latest 3.5 FAQ...

The feeblemind spell keeps you from casting spells, presumably because it makes your Intelligence and Charisma scores 1. What if it is your Wisdom score that governs your spells? Can you still cast spells then? Can you use spell-like abilities? Supernatural abilities? Extraordinary abilities?

You can’t cast any spells when you’re feebleminded, no matter what ability governs your spells. The spell scrambles the higher functions of your brain, rendering you unable to use spells and suppressing your Intelligence and Charisma scores. Feeblemind prevents the use of spell-like abilities, but not supernatural or extraordinary abilities. Also, as noted in the spell description, you cannot use any Intelligence- or Charismabased skills while feebleminded.

Arnya
05-16-2008, 02:32 AM
we had tons of DPS.....multpile crit firewalls from both casters going at 100points +a pop.....me and the other fighter doing 60+ a swing. we did tons of damage.

Try with a decent caster. A critical firewall hitting for 350-400 a tick will take him down easy.

Just lay it by the door and run from inside door to outside hiding by the wall while melees stand still and swing...

He tele's a bit that's why the melees should stand in one area.

It's the orthons I hate when on my sorc, they hit hard :)

LOUDRampart
05-16-2008, 03:42 AM
He's not the only monster in the game that does that healing thing.....he's just probably the worst. But then it is an 18th lvl quest.
Personally I think it is a cheap game design, but it is not a bug. Pretty sure it is working as intended.

It's not a bug. It's a cheesy tactic. So I guess the DM isn't using an exploit either unless we players become bored and unresponsive?

Riorik
05-16-2008, 06:59 AM
The following activities are considered to be violations of the Terms of Service:

* Using summoned items or creatures to trigger a game bug
* Purposely using any method that causes monsters or NPCs to become completely unresponsive.
* Bypassing a door, forcefield, barrier or other geometry which causes monsters or quest events on the other side to become unresponsive.
* Purposely causing monsters to become stuck or unresponsive on geometry.
* Using a game bug to remove any or all danger to yourself and/or party.
* Using any method to repeatedly loot a chest without repeating the quest objectives/content/monster encounters associated with the chest.
* Using any method to loot a chest or accept quest reward with any character who did not complete the related quest objective from start to finish.
* Bypassing a quest timer which allows you to complete a quest or objective more often than allowed.
* Any method of removing quest-only weapons, soul stones, or items from a quest instance and/or selling them on via the Marketplace or Auction House.
* Communicating details on how to exploit, or indicating quests which may be exploited in public. (Including in the LFM panel. Vague comments on your play style are welcome in the Who Panel or your Character Profile.)




lol, 4th one down

Ok no details - the only thing I've seen didn't seem to be an unresponsive bug - but it was no risk. Never tried to reproduce (was months ago and in the last few months I rarely play ddo)

Boldrin
05-16-2008, 07:28 AM
we had tons of DPS.....multpile crit firewalls from both casters going at 100points +a pop.....me and the other fighter doing 60+ a swing. we did tons of damage.

That's not tons of damage at all, need about 10 FWs going at once, acid fog and tanks beating, BBs are ok too, but it's best to keep him still in the FWs while tanks beat on him.

Elsbet
05-16-2008, 07:30 AM
That's not tons of damage at all, need about 10 FWs going at once, acid fog and tanks beating, BBs are ok too, but it's best to keep him still in the FWs while tanks beat on him.

Sounds very lagtastic. :(

mgoldb2
05-16-2008, 10:48 AM
That's not tons of damage at all, need about 10 FWs going at once, acid fog and tanks beating, BBs are ok too, but it's best to keep him still in the FWs while tanks beat on him.

Quicken, maximize, empower comet falls works well if you a cleric while he sitting in the firewall. Was in a group once that did not have good dps on elite and relize that we could be here till the end of time at the rate we going so ran to shrine and empty about 80% of a sp bar on him with comet fall but he did die. not sp efficent but it will get the job done.

bnrilfun
05-16-2008, 11:07 AM
Actually it also helps if you get the standard red named debuffs on him, then his AC is lowered, his attacks are slightly less, and his saves are not as good.

Mhykke
05-16-2008, 11:09 AM
I just type /flex, and he gives me all his stuff and runs away, every time.

I_Bob
05-16-2008, 11:23 AM
DOn't "fix" this quest. He is a challenge. It's elite. There should be some tough fights in this game on elite. Please don't "fix" this quest.

Signed and seconded

Shyver
05-16-2008, 11:36 AM
You cannot cast spells in DDO while feeblminded.

Arcane, Divine, whatever, no spell casting.

Clerics, Rangers, Paly's, Bards, Wiz and Sorcs all cannot cast spells while feebleminded

Heal spell from a friendly source (or Divine Sovereignty) will cure it....

So will drinking a Mneumonic Potion of any level. It removes the feeblemind effect. Nice use for those minor and lesser pots that the lowbies pick-up. :D

MrWizard
05-16-2008, 12:07 PM
hmm...

this guy on elite is hard. Some suggestions....

1- use crippling weapon during combat
2- use slowburst weapon during combat (eventually he will fail)

This will make his teleport and moving around a non issue. He will also heal himself slower.

3- If I remember right, solid fog will also slow him, as will the quicker disapating acid fog.

4- surround him and auto attack, he is a self healing portal.
5- try different weapons on him not just transmuters until you find the one that does the most damage with yellow and red numbers. Two handers are good if specced.

6- it takes time on elite to take him out and usually everyone is out of mana when he is dead..lol

7- clerics have a lot of good damage spells, try them out. Hey, ever try that maxxed empowered harm spell to see if it works? Two clerics doing a 1,000 hp a round aint so bad. blade barriers?

8- mind fog, symbol of persuasion all over the place and summon monsters too. Nothing wrong with the Ghaele clerics hitting him with that white light thingee all the time either.

9- just keep hitting him. If you do not cripple and slow him he will move and teleport and heal much quicker.

I think he was an attempt by the devs to make sure this one is never soloable nor even done shorthanded (why? I dunno).
This module seems to appeal more to the min/max and very well built builds with real good weapons and leaves the others in the dust. Elite in mod6 is tough unless you did the uber build, especially with this guy.
Your buffing controlling wizard is nigh useless against him, your healbot cleric can do almost nothing to him, your multiclass utility just keeps hitting him (most of the time) while you hope the strong fighters beat him down quick enough to cover for your weakness.

It is a fun fight the first time or two, but just a tedious rehash after that.



I noticed in mod 5 that most lfms were for 'normal' to get flagged and stuff and not many were elite looting.
I noticed in mod 6 that hardly any lfms were like that, at least general populace.

They made the dungeons harder by adding incredibly resistant mobs with huge hitpoints or incredible healing power.

You can think of this guy as a living portal that hits back. And just like the portals, it is a time consuming beatdown that is not really fun after the first time you do it.

IF mod7 adds dungeons with more living portals...well....it won't be fun for me. Bring back the good parts of gianthold and tempest spine devs, I mean really.

MrWizard
05-16-2008, 12:08 PM
So will drinking a Mneumonic Potion of any level. It removes the feeblemind effect. Nice use for those minor and lesser pots that the lowbies pick-up. :D

really? when did that happen? is that a bug? I never heard of it before...jeez

Kronik
05-16-2008, 12:15 PM
7- clerics have a lot of good damage spells, try them out. Hey, ever try that maxxed empowered harm spell to see if it works? Two clerics doing a 1,000 hp a round aint so bad. blade barriers?

8- mind fog, symbol of persuasion all over the place and summon monsters too. Nothing wrong with the Ghaele clerics hitting him with that white light thingee all the time either.



Maxed empowered harm doesnt even hit him. I think death ward blocks it. That white light thingee (Searing light) works good enough while you wait to heal.

Firewalls do help no matter what people post and a few hard hitting meele types surrounding him
always seems to work for me.

Aspenor
05-16-2008, 12:23 PM
really? when did that happen? is that a bug? I never heard of it before...jeez

I'm not sure when it happened, but it is not a bug.

Eladrin was actually the person that informed the community of this feature.

Talon_Moonshadow
05-16-2008, 12:38 PM
hmm...

this guy on elite is hard. Some suggestions....

1- use crippling weapon during combat
2- use slowburst weapon during combat (eventually he will fail)

This will make his teleport and moving around a non issue. He will also heal himself slower.

3- If I remember right, solid fog will also slow him, as will the quicker disapating acid fog.

4- surround him and auto attack, he is a self healing portal.
5- try different weapons on him not just transmuters until you find the one that does the most damage with yellow and red numbers. Two handers are good if specced.

6- it takes time on elite to take him out and usually everyone is out of mana when he is dead..lol

7- clerics have a lot of good damage spells, try them out. Hey, ever try that maxxed empowered harm spell to see if it works? Two clerics doing a 1,000 hp a round aint so bad. blade barriers?

8- mind fog, symbol of persuasion all over the place and summon monsters too. Nothing wrong with the Ghaele clerics hitting him with that white light thingee all the time either.

9- just keep hitting him. If you do not cripple and slow him he will move and teleport and heal much quicker.

I think he was an attempt by the devs to make sure this one is never soloable nor even done shorthanded (why? I dunno).
This module seems to appeal more to the min/max and very well built builds with real good weapons and leaves the others in the dust. Elite in mod6 is tough unless you did the uber build, especially with this guy.
Your buffing controlling wizard is nigh useless against him, your healbot cleric can do almost nothing to him, your multiclass utility just keeps hitting him (most of the time) while you hope the strong fighters beat him down quick enough to cover for your weakness.

It is a fun fight the first time or two, but just a tedious rehash after that.



I noticed in mod 5 that most lfms were for 'normal' to get flagged and stuff and not many were elite looting.
I noticed in mod 6 that hardly any lfms were like that, at least general populace.

They made the dungeons harder by adding incredibly resistant mobs with huge hitpoints or incredible healing power.

You can think of this guy as a living portal that hits back. And just like the portals, it is a time consuming beatdown that is not really fun after the first time you do it.

IF mod7 adds dungeons with more living portals...well....it won't be fun for me. Bring back the good parts of gianthold and tempest spine devs, I mean really.

Searing Light hurts everything.
I really like the idea of charming his companions (I like charming in this quest in general). Let them beat up each other with those light rays for awhile. The Ghael are hard to charm, but if they are shooting those light beams at their whirlwind brothers, they are not shooting them at you!

Searing Light....disintegrate....anything that does untyped damage should hurt this guy.

I wish I knew for sure what debuffs to use on rednamed. But your ideas sound great to me. stop him running around, find something to slow down his healing. And see if there is something to increase crits on him. Transmuting of Grtr Chaotic Outsider bane would be nice.
Haste......rage.....lots of buffs to increase damage.

Missing_Minds
05-16-2008, 12:39 PM
really? when did that happen? is that a bug? I never heard of it before...jeez

Been this way for a long time apparently, and it does work.

Garth_of_Sarlona
05-16-2008, 12:49 PM
Been this way for a long time apparently, and it does work.

...and it's also said so on the bottle for ages. Teach us to read labels before drinking suspicious looking pots.

Garth

Solmage
05-16-2008, 12:50 PM
Actually it also helps if you get the standard red named debuffs on him, then his AC is lowered, his attacks are slightly less, and his saves are not as good.

Yep! Helps a lot when almost every disintegration and cone of cold lands for full damage.

Solmage
05-16-2008, 01:05 PM
I wish I knew for sure what debuffs to use on rednamed. But your ideas sound great to me. stop him running around, find something to slow down his healing. And see if there is something to increase crits on him. Transmuting of Grtr Chaotic Outsider bane would be nice.
Haste......rage.....lots of buffs to increase damage.

My standard red name debuffing, and the order I usually use them in:

- ray of enfeeblement (if he can swing)
- waves of exhaustion
- curse
- symbol of weakness (if he can swing)
- symbol of pain

Other things which you can add:

- ray of exhaustion (I don't have enough lvl 3 spell slots on the sorcie .. and it seems cheesy and likely a bug, since it stacks with waves..)
- crushing despair (no spare lvl 4 slots, even on the wizard)
- curse from a weapon (I can't hit the broadside of an elite barn :p - besides, when this curse wears off it removes the normal 'good' curse, still not bad for any red name that will NOT stay around a while, (ie not for the reaver nor harry)
- solid fog/acid fog slow effect (on some red names)


(From memory so I could have forgotten something or messed up the order)

Talon_Moonshadow
05-16-2008, 01:14 PM
My standard red name debuffing, and the order I usually use them in:

- ray of enfeeblement (if he can swing)
- waves of exhaustion
- curse
- symbol of weakness (if he can swing)
- symbol of pain

Other things which you can add:

- ray of exhaustion (I don't have enough lvl 3 spell slots on the sorcie .. and it seems cheesy and likely a bug, since it stacks with waves..)
- crushing despair (no spare lvl 4 slots, even on the wizard)
- curse from a weapon (I can't hit the broadside of an elite barn :p - besides, when this curse wears off it removes the normal 'good' curse, still not bad for any red name that will NOT stay around a while, (ie not for the reaver nor harry)
- solid fog/acid fog slow effect (on some red names)


(From memory so I could have forgotten something or messed up the order)

Thx.

I think a couple of those do not have saves and can actually be used from scrolls with success.
If I only had inventory space. :(

Emili
05-16-2008, 05:49 PM
Typically Emili and Meallach both do good dps on him... if another dps melee is a long helps out a lot... also clric spells like BB and searing light work for spikes. When we hit the halfway mark I always tell the caster to start hitting him with disint and CoC ... then he goes down quickly from that point. Thing is I tell the casters to hold back until we get him half wal - his healing spam mark... then we all lay in on him harder from there and he's dead withing seconds.

dragonofsteel2
05-16-2008, 11:15 PM
Funny part do not even think this guy much challange, agro control kill 20min. elite loot runs no problems. Then agian never see that many running these quest on elite which we do all the time.

Falcron_Grayblade
05-19-2008, 12:44 AM
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lol, 4th one down

You should read what he wrote again he said get in a position where he can't get a good angle on you. That would be like if someone was going to shoot a gun at you and you hid behind a large metal trash can.

Elsbet
05-19-2008, 08:10 AM
- crushing despair (no spare lvl 4 slots, even on the wizard)



My bard loves crushing despair and throws it on everything with a name over its head. :) It makes things a lot easier.