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View Full Version : "Sense of Travel" - Explorer zones and our Instanced World



moorewr
05-14-2008, 10:35 AM
I'd like to comment on explorer zones, and public zones inside/beyond them.

Turbine's folks have said that part of leaving Meridia off the Greater Teleport list was our frequent requests for more of a sense of travel. I'd like to comment on how that example missed the mark, and what I think could be done in future mods within the limits of the game engine.

One of my absolute favorite places in the game is the public zone outside the Titan Raid (Mouth of the Volcano?), and that's part of the inspiration here.

I think new quests are much more important than new explorer zones, but I think this could be done over time to give us some fun new options. I'd like to see what other people suggest too (or why they don't think some of this would work if that's how they feel).


Meridia, GH, and Zawabi's Refuge are all efforts at giving us another nexus to adventure from. This is good. Making them hard/eciting to get to on foot is awesome too.
Non-auto-aggro NPCs in instanced zones are a lot of fun... put in a village in a zone you can ignore, protect, or sack if you are a meany
Eberron has lightning rail and airships. It also has commercial teleport services (per City of Stormreach this is a service provided in the Tower of the Twelve). So let us hoof it to Zawabi's or pay to be flown there. Ditto with Meridia. Let us pay for teleport to any "civilizied" public zone
Redo teleport/greater teleport so you must visit the zone before it can be a teleport target. That's per PnP.
Build quests that have public zones between stages in the chain instead of retrunign to a common starting point. Am I on the right part of the quest chain? I must be because I'm here!
Link explorer zones, so you can work your way into the jungle instead of just recalling.. build some jungle zones we can slag through to get to another entry into the Vale or GH, for example...
Build another city - I always say Sharn, by the Dol Qat city would be a good one.. that would be VERY unhappy about visiters and we'd have to bash our way in (with Trebuchets?)...

moorewr
05-14-2008, 12:53 PM
Related - Sirgog's "New Wilderness Areas" Thread:
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=146234


I'd really dig a snow environment to play in.

Spectralist
05-14-2008, 01:37 PM
I'd rather they just shove everything into the harbor, market, and houses. Travel times suck. I can hardly stand any of the desert/gianthold/shroud quests simply because getting to them is such a monumental pain in the ass. At least compared to most of the older quests. That turbine seems to be putting most of the new quests, and a great deal of time, in these annoying places is the most disappointing trend in the game to date.

Ah well. You can't please everyone.

moorewr
05-14-2008, 01:42 PM
I'd rather they just shove everything into the harbor, market, and houses. Travel times suck. I can hardly stand any of the desert/gianthold/shroud quests simply because getting to them is such a monumental pain in the ass. At least compared to most of the older quests. That turbine seems to be putting most of the new quests, and a great deal of time, in these annoying places is the most disappointing trend in the game to date.

Ah well. You can't please everyone.

No indeed! :)

I only mind running to quests in the desert, since they can be a long way off and it's easy to get lost. Even then it's only a real hassle after a wipe or if you join a group late. It's also a great test of a PUG. If they all fetch up dead half-way to the entrance of Devils, you've gotten your fair warning to bow out on the cheap.

I'd really like to see them acknowledge the availability of commercial travel in Eberron.. it would be a nice money sink.. "Airship captain! Drop me by ADQ would you? OK, here's your plat..."

sirgog
05-14-2008, 08:04 PM
I'd like the explorer zones to all be linked, in the sense that you could travel through a gate in Cerulean Hills and wind up first in Tangleroot, then Searing Heights, then Sorrowdusk, etc.

I doubt I'd run them much more, but it'd be a fairly simple thing to add to make the game more fun for the players that like these areas.


I'd also rather have more end-game quests that do not require repetitive, annoying runs through wilderness areas to play. If I had a PP for every time I'd done the run from the Necropolis to Inferno of the Damned, I could probably buy two w/p rapiers by now.

moorewr
05-14-2008, 08:52 PM
I'd like the explorer zones to all be linked, in the sense that you could travel through a gate in Cerulean Hills and wind up first in Tangleroot, then Searing Heights, then Sorrowdusk, etc.

I doubt I'd run them much more, but it'd be a fairly simple thing to add to make the game more fun for the players that like these areas.


I'd also rather have more end-game quests that do not require repetitive, annoying runs through wilderness areas to play. If I had a PP for every time I'd done the run from the Necropolis to Inferno of the Damned, I could probably buy two w/p rapiers by now.

Amen to that!

So, would you pay a few plat to avoid the run? "Here ya go, Veheer, make yourself useful."

sirgog
05-17-2008, 05:45 AM
Amen to that!

So, would you pay a few plat to avoid the run? "Here ya go, Veheer, make yourself useful."

An NPC that would teleport you to the entry to a quest you have completed on Elite for a fee (say 500 PP) would be a fantastic addition!

I'd particularly like to have one in Meridia - Disector can easily get to anywhere in the Vale unmolested due to stealth, but most players cannot match that, and the Vale is rough on melee types unless they have 15-20 banishers.

GlassCannon
05-17-2008, 11:44 PM
One of the MAIN things I advocate about DDO is the LACK OF Travel.

I enjoy being teleported to an instance, I do not enjoy having to run to it.


This is part of why I have lost interest in DDO of late. The endless grind of the same quest over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again(The Shroud) for level-appropriate(since the new content appears geared to require said GRIND, which is also a term I refuse to associate with DDO) gear has sincerely done in my interest in this game, with the Bearded Devil's extremely broken HitBox being the keystone of said loss of interest. Arraetrikos' obscenely over-inflated HP helped nail the casket on my account. It expires in 2 days. I'll check on Monks, but for the most part DDO hangs by a mere thread.

Enough mistakes.

Enough.

JFeenstra
05-18-2008, 01:55 AM
pretty much agree with GC...if mod 7/monks aren't impressive, my account will get cancelled come whenever my 6 months is up and i'll be finding some new way to amuse myself

right now it's pretty much log on, type /quest, see what raids the guilds up to (if any), play for 1-2 hours and log off cause i'm bored

moorewr
05-18-2008, 08:24 AM
GC, Reading Is Fundamental.



Eberron has lightning rail and airships. It also has commercial teleport services (per City of Stormreach this is a service provided in the Tower of the Twelve). So let us hoof it to Zawabi's or pay to be flown there. Ditto with Meridia. Let us pay for teleport to any "civilizied" public zone
Redo teleport/greater teleport so you must visit the zone before it can be a teleport target. That's per PnP.



I only mind running to quests in the desert, since they can be a long way off and it's easy to get lost. Even then it's only a real hassle after a wipe or if you join a group late. It's also a great test of a PUG. If they all fetch up dead half-way to the entrance of Devils, you've gotten your fair warning to bow out on the cheap.

I'd really like to see them acknowledge the availability of commercial travel in Eberron.. it would be a nice money sink.. "Airship captain! Drop me by ADQ would you? OK, here's your plat..."

vainangel
05-18-2008, 09:00 AM
you want this to be like WOW? Some connections are good. But you are asking for a diffrent game it seems.

moorewr
05-18-2008, 09:13 AM
you want this to be like WOW? Some connections are good. But you are asking for a diffrent game it seems.

Who are you addressing? Me?

Spectralist
05-18-2008, 09:36 AM
Eberron has lightning rail and airships. It also has commercial teleport services (per City of Stormreach this is a service provided in the Tower of the Twelve). So let us hoof it to Zawabi's or pay to be flown there. Ditto with Meridia. Let us pay for teleport to any "civilizied" public zone
A logistical nightmare. Do you just talk to the air ship captain and have a 30 page list of quest entrances? Does he ferry you to some location near, but not quite at, a bunch of different entrances? It might be possible to make a system like that decent, but it's unlikely. And would almost certainly require significantly more travel than is acceptable.

Redo teleport/greater teleport so you must visit the zone before it can be a teleport target. That's per PnP.

Oh great, make getting your character into the titan for the first time even more difficult. I've never even seen the run to that raid's entrance and after running to slaver's and ghola i don't want to.

vainangel
05-18-2008, 09:43 AM
Who are you addressing? Me?

not as such...just seems the point of what everyone is saying is ...'make DDO like WOW'

I selected ddo becuase it was not like WOW.

moorewr
05-18-2008, 09:59 AM
not as such...just seems the point of what everyone is saying is ...'make DDO like WOW'

I selected ddo becuase it was not like WOW.


I hate WoW.

So can I get you to try engaging my specific ideas in the OP? I want to create more sense of distance, but also provides more alternatives to humping through the country-side, and incidentally provide a bit of an Eberron-appropriate plat-sink.

moorewr
05-18-2008, 10:07 AM
A logistical nightmare. Do you just talk to the air ship captain and have a 30 page list of quest entrances? Does he ferry you to some location near, but not quite at, a bunch of different entrances? It might be possible to make a system like that decent, but it's unlikely. And would almost certainly require significantly more travel than is acceptable.

This was a side discusssion, but anyway let's imagine the "logistical nightmare:"

What area of Eberron do you want to go to? (Stormreach, Giant Hold Meridia, Restless Isles, Three Barrel Cove, Menachturan Desert)
Desert

Where in the desert? (Refuge, Tombs, near burning city)
Burning City

Clearly beyond the power of any human programmer. :rolleyes:


Oh great, make getting your character into the titan for the first time even more difficult. I've never even seen the run to that raid's entrance and after running to slaver's and ghola i don't want to.

I think you missed what PnP requires here. The caster must know the location he is teleporting/greater teleporting to.

I hate that run too, but what's stopping your caster, in my proposal, from befriending an arcane who has already been there to greater teleport you there? Now you've been there, no running required.. and for non-arcanes nothing has changed.

vainangel
05-18-2008, 10:40 AM
I hate WoW.

So can I get you to try engaging my specific ideas in the OP? I want to create more sense of distance, but also provides more alternatives to humping through the country-side, and incidentally provide a bit of an Eberron-appropriate plat-sink.


I like the idea of opening some of the landscape up, but most of the suggestions are hinting at how WOW and other MMO's are set up. I would enjoy seeing some connection between the areas but... I think it is pretty good right now. Not perfect mind you, a few more teleport terminals, possibly a way to get to the Sands or GH form other locations... just not all of this tweaking so a plat farmer can run circles in stormreach.

Hambo
05-18-2008, 10:46 AM
I hate WoW.

So can I get you to try engaging my specific ideas in the OP? I want to create more sense of distance, but also provides more alternatives to humping through the country-side, and incidentally provide a bit of an Eberron-appropriate plat-sink.

You know, I think I like an idea posted a while back, just after Mod 6 hit. That idea is that you have to make the run the FIRST time to your destination (Meridia in this case). Once you use the Djinn in the courtyard to teleport back to the twelve you then have the ability to teleport BACK to Meridia flagged for that character. You would still have the option to run through the Vale, just like we still have the option to take the caravan to the desert, but it becomes an option.

It's certainly better than using the /death express. (Wasn't using this method considered an e*****t about a year and a half ago and 'fixed' because you could get around quicker?)

Rickpa
05-18-2008, 11:05 AM
One of the things I love about DDO is not having long travel times to find quest givers and quests.

moorewr
05-18-2008, 11:10 AM
You know, I think I like an idea posted a while back, just after Mod 6 hit. That idea is that you have to make the run the FIRST time to your destination (Meridia in this case). Once you use the Djinn in the courtyard to teleport back to the twelve you then have the ability to teleport BACK to Meridia flagged for that character. You would still have the option to run through the Vale, just like we still have the option to take the caravan to the desert, but it becomes an option.

It's certainly better than using the /death express. (Wasn't using this method considered an e*****t about a year and a half ago and 'fixed' because you could get around quicker?)

Yeah, either add Meridia to the teleport/gr. teleport list, or provide a version of the Tangleroot Teleport. That was my example from City of Stormreach (CoS): Baker says there are commercial teleport services available in the Tower of the Twelve (which he places in the Kundarak Enclave).

I don't find the run to Meridia very challenging, but I object to the idea of it - why let us teleport to Gianthold and not to Meridia? The Gianthold should be extremely inaccessible by comparison, and yet we get free on-demand teleports from any passing polymorphed dragon we ask. OK, only one polymorphed dragon, but evidently she has a lot of free time and LURVS Nat Gann (or loves watching him beg for medical assistance).

DoctorWhofan
05-18-2008, 11:23 AM
I like IT!! I'd like to play in the snow, too!

moorewr
05-18-2008, 11:55 AM
I like IT!! I'd like to play in the snow, too!

So many things you can do with snow.. slippery sections with cave-ins and rocky slope-bottoms as traps.. mushy sections of soft snow, fast sections of slope you slide down if you avoid the flats, snowfalls that restrict movement and ranged fire.. reduced effect from fire spells..

and the visuals.. nothing like the sun in the blue sky above a bright new fall of snow...



OT: what did you think of the latest Who? (No spoiler in this I swear)

I had to go look up what Agatha really did during her ten day disappearance.. turns out she walked out on her husband. signed in under his mistress' name, boozed it up -- and joined the hotel band! :)

vainangel
05-18-2008, 01:14 PM
OT: what did you think of the latest Who? (No spoiler in this I swear)

I had to go look up what Agatha really did during her ten day disappearance.. turns out she walked out on her husband. signed in under his mistress' name, boozed it up -- and joined the hotel band! :)


YAY Doctor Who!
BBC got it right!

Thrudh
05-19-2008, 12:02 AM
pretty much agree with GC...if mod 7/monks aren't impressive, my account will get cancelled come whenever my 6 months is up and i'll be finding some new way to amuse myself

right now it's pretty much log on, type /quest, see what raids the guilds up to (if any), play for 1-2 hours and log off cause i'm bored


Heh, yeah it sucks to only be entertained by a game for 1-2 hours a day... LOL

Look, NO game can keep you entertained forever if you play it every day for hours and hours...

You SHOULD find a new way to amuse yourself. It's stupid to play a game you don't enjoy anymore... However, give Turbine your thanks as you leave... because you DID get THOUSANDS of hours of fun out of this game before it got boring for you...

Me, 1-2 hours a night is normal... and I'm not bored yet...

moorewr
05-19-2008, 07:53 AM
Easy prescription! If you're bored, log out and walk away. Come back when the itch gets too strong. Or have kids in the house.. It took 16 months before I'd played this game enough to pass up a chance to play when I had one. :)

GlassCannon
05-19-2008, 02:37 PM
pretty much agree with GC...if mod 7/monks aren't impressive, my account will get cancelled come whenever my 6 months is up and i'll be finding some new way to amuse myself

right now it's pretty much log on, type /quest, see what raids the guilds up to (if any), play for 1-2 hours and log off cause i'm bored

You mean you log on to Raid and that's about it....

Roll up a nice lowbie experiment and go have fun with some other players, if at the very least cutting loose on Voice Chat.



Remember: I have no idea how to have fun, I simply enjoy some forms of work better than others.

moorewr
05-19-2008, 02:46 PM
Lack of new content, and lack of randomization in existing content are two other cans of worms. Too big for this thread. :)

Arianrhod
05-19-2008, 02:51 PM
I wouldn't mind having an option to travel overland to/between various locations ingame that you can currently only teleport to - provided teleporting remains the default. I don't much care for the idea of having to pay for the teleport. That just makes it harder on those least well-equipped to make the run in the first place.