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View Full Version : Are Negative Levels WAI? Developer Response Requested Please



Deaths_ward
05-13-2008, 11:42 PM
Currently Negative Levels are functioning in a manner that is I believe broken, which causes the death penalty effect to be broken.

Not sure exactly how it affects mobs, but any character affected by a negative level is affected by two (Or more based on the class) levels worth of debuffs. Doesn't matter what your class is, you're taking a -2 to hit (-2 levels for a full BaB class, more for any class that isn't) a -2 on saves, and a -2 on skill checks. I pretty sure this is caused by the game registering that you have negative levels, and applying an appropriate penalty, and then recognized you have the debuff of a negative level and penalizing you again. I know it would be just about impossible to code for negative levels removing specific level dependent effects, but it seems like if this is intentional it's a bit overboard.

So are negative levels working as intended? A developer response would be greatly appreciated.

Geonis
05-13-2008, 11:50 PM
A DnD PnP negative level would give cumulative -1 to hit, saves, skills, checks, and -5 HP, regardless of class. The -2 we receive is incorrect, but I haven't played around with why, one possibility is they doubled these penalties to make negative levels useful against mobs, and never changed the coding for how they affect players.

Gol
05-13-2008, 11:58 PM
Known bug.

Missing_Minds
05-14-2008, 12:06 AM
You could say negative levels are broken. I think my pictures illustrate this point well.

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh50/missingminds/neglvl13a.jpg

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh50/missingminds/neglvl13b.jpg

Lithic
05-14-2008, 12:55 AM
The double penalty vs PnP is to compensate for super inflated stats in all areas. The players have MUCH higher saves, skills, HP and attack bonuses vs a pen and paper counterpart, so the neg level was scaled up.

If anything, at lvl 16 they should be -3 to everything, and only -1 until lvl 5 or so, but a constant -2 is a pretty simple compromise.

Lithic
05-14-2008, 10:15 AM
One (mistaken) person's senseless, is another's "makes perfect sense". What DOESNT make sense are the spells which weren't scaled up like sleep, deep slumber, symbol of death, etc.

if neg levels were -1 instead of -2, few characters would notice until they had accrued half their character level as neg levels. As it is now, even 2 or 3 neg levels are no big deal past lvl 10. Nice to get rid of, but hardly devastating.

bobbryan2
05-14-2008, 10:18 AM
The double penalty vs PnP is to compensate for super inflated stats in all areas. The players have MUCH higher saves, skills, HP and attack bonuses vs a pen and paper counterpart, so the neg level was scaled up.

If anything, at lvl 16 they should be -3 to everything, and only -1 until lvl 5 or so, but a constant -2 is a pretty simple compromise.

Pulled that right out of thin air, didncha?

:)

beeofdoom
05-14-2008, 10:26 AM
One (mistaken) person's senseless, is another's "makes perfect sense". What DOESNT make sense are the spells which weren't scaled up like sleep, deep slumber, symbol of death, etc.

if neg levels were -1 instead of -2, few characters would notice until they had accrued half their character level as neg levels. As it is now, even 2 or 3 neg levels are no big deal past lvl 10. Nice to get rid of, but hardly devastating.


Hmm, ever try clericing shroud 5 and healing a tank who doesn't wait for his death penalty to expire before re-engaging the PF?

Angelus_dead
05-14-2008, 12:11 PM
One (mistaken) person's senseless, is another's "makes perfect sense". What DOESNT make sense are the spells which weren't scaled up like sleep, deep slumber, symbol of death, etc.

if neg levels were -1 instead of -2, few characters would notice until they had accrued half their character level as neg levels. As it is now, even 2 or 3 neg levels are no big deal past lvl 10. Nice to get rid of, but hardly devastating.
No, your idea just doesn't make any sense. If negative levels were intentionally doubled in power to compensate for higher character abilities, then every other debuff like Bestow Curse and Ray of Enfeeblement should've been doubled too.

honkuimushi
05-14-2008, 04:44 PM
if neg levels were -1 instead of -2, few characters would notice until they had accrued half their character level as neg levels. As it is now, even 2 or 3 neg levels are no big deal past lvl 10. Nice to get rid of, but hardly devastating.

You don't play a rogue, do you?