PDA

View Full Version : Two handed fighting question



Indel_Eventine
05-11-2008, 12:39 AM
As far as I can tell, THF and ITHF only affect the glancing blows. Is this right? I am planning on swapping both out for the Cleaves, but it will cost an extra stone and cash, so I want to be sure.

BlackSteel
05-11-2008, 12:53 PM
the feats increase the amount of glancing blow you get via which swings in your chain they appear on, and the attack rating for those glances. Additionally they increase the damage of each glancing blow.

Angelus_dead
05-11-2008, 12:56 PM
As far as I can tell, THF and ITHF only affect the glancing blows. Is this right? I am planning on swapping both out for the Cleaves, but it will cost an extra stone and cash, so I want to be sure.
Dropping ITHF for Cleave is probably a mistake, but maybe not depending on what you're planning to use Cleave for.
Dropping both THF and ITHF for Cleave + Great Cleave is almost definite a mistake.

Of course, it all depends on what your character needs to accomplish. Right now, the most important (ie profitable) battle in DDO is fighting the Pit Fiend Arraetrikos, and against him ITHF is useful while Cleave is harmless.

For cleave to be ever worthwhile requires you the player to have excellent skills clicking the button at the right time and place, while THF is a passive bonus you don't need to think about.

Indel_Eventine
05-11-2008, 02:19 PM
Why would it help against the pit fiend? AFAIKT, glancing blows to 8 or 9 damage, maybe up to 12, with none of the special effects or criticals allowed. Cleave, and Greater Cleave, are on seperate timers, and all damage/specials are applied.
It doesn't seem to help fighting with a 2 hander by itself.

Angelus_dead
05-11-2008, 02:32 PM
Why would it help against the pit fiend? AFAIKT, glancing blows to 8 or 9 damage, maybe up to 12, with none of the special effects or criticals allowed.
Somewhat surprisingly, Glancing Blow attempts trigger against all monsters in your swing area. Even if you have only one target, they damage it as well.

The damage addition isn't huge, but it's better than nothing. And "nothing" is what you'd get from Cleave against the pit fiend. Cleave and Great Cleave can only have a benefit if you actually have 3+ monsters in range at once, while the THF feats raise your DPS even against a single target. (They help you kill portals too)

sigtrent
05-11-2008, 05:49 PM
Here's the deal with them....

Glancing blows happen on every swing and are basicaly little bonus attacks. They go after your main target and other folks standing around them. The more THF feats the more accurate and damaging the glancing blows are.

Cleave attacks take a normal swing at everyone in the area but they are activated attacks so they take place instead of normal attacks. What is nice about cleave is that weapon effects and full damage hits the side targets, as with glancing blows its just a bit of flat damage (generaly a percentage of your base damage).

Glancing blows are good for doing more damage to your main target. With greater two handed fighting and a strong character they can do as much as 25 pts and they land pretty frequently. An extra 25 pts is a lot to get from feats. Only power attack or two weapon fighting is comparable. So its good because you do regular damage AND extra damage to your main target. The damage on side targets is decent but not really what you are shooting for with these feats.

Cleave will do no extra damage to your main target becasue in the time it takes to cleave you could have just done a regular attack. In fact unless your timing is really really good, you will probably slow down your rate of attack using cleave. Where cleave shines is it does much more damage to the side targets than glancing blows do and it can deliver special weapon effects like vorpal etc to the side targets.

So here is how I think they are best used...

For a DPS fighting character, THF feats are better because you can take down your targets faster.

For a defensive tank cleave is better as it helps pull agro on multiple targets and it can paralyze or otherwise debuff many creatures at once.

Cleave is also good for low or moderate dps builds that like to use special weapons like paralyzers and vorpals instead of pure damage weapons as it give more opportunity for those effects to go off on various monsters even if it slows down your single target DPS a bit.

I am interested in cleave with high level rogues.. its dangerous but it can do a lot of damage and if you had two such rogues they could juggle agro back and forth between them. I've never seen it but my intimitank has a rogue level and its fun to get all the sneak attacks when using cleave, and its a nice agro bonus for him.

KIELBASEE555
05-24-2008, 08:35 AM
CLEAVE is a cool down clickee!!!! while your fighting you have to take a extra effort to remember to use the cleave icon every once in a while.
use it and wait........ YES you have to WAIT for a 15 second cool down! so 1 multi hit swing every 15-20 seconds vers's the general glancing blows. i got tired of that reall fast. if you have taken the time to get the whirlwind??? its just a larger cleave with longer cool down.

the other guys above me are NOT telling you that YOU have a bad asumption. your asuming that cleave is a constantly active, like power attack. IT IS NOT,,,, IT IS A 15 SECOND COOL DOWN. hopefully at higher levels there will be a cool down reduction or new fight styles that do constant attacks like power attack. think of a whirlewind that last's for 15 seceons. NOT JUST 2 or 3 360 spins with your weapons hitting. how about a fighter doing a 15 second 360 spin buzz saw. doing full 360 spinn for full 15 seconds, with a fattiegue 30 second cool down trade off.

Tanka
05-24-2008, 11:12 AM
Cleaving with a two-hander is also quite easily one of the slowest swings in the game to date. It's just plain not worth it for a two-handed fighter.

sigtrent
05-25-2008, 12:23 AM
Cleaving with a two-hander is also quite easily one of the slowest swings in the game to date. It's just plain not worth it for a two-handed fighter.

Genarly not... although it can have some moments... Sometimes soloing a mid level fighter, a two handed paralyzer with cleave can incapasitate a whole bunch of pain while letting you do pretty heavy damage still. Ive won some fights that way I'd other wise have had no chance at. But its very level specific. higher levels it isn't reliable enough, lower levels you can just kill everything pretty fast anyhow.

Aramist_Sureblade
06-11-2008, 02:48 PM
I thought certain weapons effects, i.e., paralyzers, disruptors activated on "hit", meaning glancing blows also?

Vorpals only work on a 20 and you only get a roll on your main target as a regular attack or with cleaves

sigtrent
06-11-2008, 03:09 PM
I thought certain weapons effects, i.e., paralyzers, disruptors activated on "hit", meaning glancing blows also?
Vorpals only work on a 20 and you only get a roll on your main target as a regular attack or with cleaves

Glancing blows apply no weapon effects at all. It does an ammount of damage that is a percentage of your base weapon damage (the part that gets multiplied in a critical hit) and that's it.

Cleave makes a normal attack agaisnt everything in the cleave arc as if you took one swing against each of them at the same time.

Cleave is good for weapon effects and damaging large groups, glancing blows are good for doing a good bit of extra damage all the time.

Dark-Star
06-11-2008, 07:46 PM
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=149085

Started a similar set of questions on the barb forums. Some useful technical info and discussions on a thread linked in my thread.

LeslieWest_GuitarGod
06-18-2008, 02:00 AM
To the OP: Youd be crazy to give up all the immediate & consistent bonuses & benefits of THF/ITHF (lots of reliable extra damage and my version of intimidate) for the time-sensitive (im being really nice here) cleave line. I actually have all the above. Cleave/Great Cleave are toys. I use them situationally in very large mobs and when I play with my Power 5 weapons. They can be useful for a powergamer like myself who IS trying for that top kill count. But still Cleave & Great Cleave will always be toys compared to the THF/ITHF/GTHF line, if for no other reason... they are sloooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooow..