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Thame
05-08-2008, 07:15 AM
Then make it to where I can spam heals every 2 secs without cooldown timers and unlimited mana be invulnerable while im moving AND hit my opponent 150 times whiles lagged out, THEN Ill stop using what u call exploits. If you fixed the problems on your end there wouldnt be any of this crying about exploits.

Aspenor
05-08-2008, 10:20 AM
Monsters have the same cooldown timer as players for all spells.

binnsr
05-08-2008, 10:21 AM
Monsters have the same cooldown timer as players for all spells.

Its just that they tend to all use the Sorcerer template regardless of whether they're casting divine or arcane spells.. one of the devs confirmed that a year or so ago.

ENGRAV0
05-08-2008, 10:26 AM
Here is how "I" read this post.

Players get frustrated when there is silence and in some cases, blatant denial of issues which create said frustration. Some such Frstration creators are, but not limited to, and in no way are expected to be agreed that ALL players get said frustration from:

Lag, Pathing, Delayed (if ever responded to) response from GMs, GMs lack of ability in most (And yes, I DO mean most) cases to resolve said Frustration causer, MOBs being able to hit, while players sit there (A result of Lag, usualy) Inability to attack anenemy, because he is facing away from individuals while moving (You need to be running just in front of him, facing away from him, then suffer the -4 to hit), Being kicked out of quests/RAIDs due to Disconnects (Sometimes a result of LAG).

This isn't the FULL list, and is only a listing of the main ones I have witnessed or been affected by, but when a player gets so frustrated that he has suffered one of these (Or another that perhaps was missed) then he (or She) in general will only feel that if he finds an easier way to accomplish the task, and can get it done before being affected by one of these (Well Documented) issues, he feels a little better.


So, in short, If the Devs refuse to acknowledge, or correct in a timely manner, or at least TRY (TRY= Showing some continued WDA response regarding the known issues, or at least getting them into their own post regarding the known issues) it is human nature to try to remove some frustration, and to try to find (What some will refer to as Cheesy or straight up Exploiting) Tactics is only natural.

-Peace

ENGRAV0
05-08-2008, 10:33 AM
Monsters have the same cooldown timer as players for all spells.

Perhaps true, however, when a Monster I am fighting summons a pet, and I summon the same exact pet, his pet doesn't have equal properties. His pet is indeed MUCH stronger, has more HP, and is much more of a threat than mine is. And though his timer MAY be the same, his spells are ALL Quickened (For I have yet to see any monster EVER have to make a concentration check, or fail a spell because of being under constant damage).

Now, I DO actualy understand SOME of the reasoning behind giving the AI unlimited Spell Points, but I honestly feel a much better route would have been to give them a set amount, with a regenerative ability that they could regain used spell points. Thus, they can hit me (As fast as the Server proccesses the information and sees what the next available spell is) only so many times before any kind of (My human mind is only so fast and getting that next spell, or figuring out where the next valid target is) balance is attained.

Aspenor
05-08-2008, 10:37 AM
Perhaps true, however, when a Monster I am fighting summons a pet, and I summon the same exact pet, his pet doesn't have equal properties. His pet is indeed MUCH stronger, has more HP, and is much more of a threat than mine is. And though his timer MAY be the same, his spells are ALL Quickened (For I have yet to see any monster EVER have to make a concentration check, or fail a spell because of being under constant damage).
There are indeed no concentration checks, but monsters ARE subject to a "massive damage" code which, when they take some unspecified % of their total HP in damage, they are unable to take actions for a round. It does require some major damage, however.
Now, I DO actualy understand SOME of the reasoning behind giving the AI unlimited Spell Points, but I honestly feel a much better route would have been to give them a set amount, with a regenerative ability that they could regain used spell points. Thus, they can hit me (As fast as the Server proccesses the information and sees what the next available spell is) only so many times before any kind of (My human mind is only so fast and getting that next spell, or figuring out where the next valid target is) balance is attained.

I agree with all of what you said just put a note in red is all.

ENGRAV0
05-08-2008, 10:40 AM
Thank you Asp, Never really payed attention to them stopping for a round. Can you answer a question for me? I thought that the "Round" theory was really just a reference, not really applied in DDO. (Ok, sorry, not really a question, but something I was curious. Mainly because a Level 1 Barb will hit a creature as many times (Forgoing the BAB and attack modifiers) as a level 16 pure barb would. Meaning, as I see it, the "Round" or "Swings Per Round" really isn't anything to be concerned about except that the animation changes).

Aspenor
05-08-2008, 10:43 AM
Thank you Asp, Never really payed attention to them stopping for a round. Can you answer a question for me? I thought that the "Round" theory was really just a reference, not really applied in DDO. (Ok, sorry, not really a question, but something I was curious. Mainly because a Level 1 Barb will hit a creature as many times (Forgoing the BAB and attack modifiers) as a level 16 pure barb would. Meaning, as I see it, the "Round" or "Swings Per Round" really isn't anything to be concerned about except that the animation changes).

Indeed "rounds" in DDO are somewhat abstract. For the purposes of the "massive damage" mechanic I would estimate it lasts for maybe 3 seconds.

For magic-casting purposes, a round is 6 seconds. However, for meleeing purposes, they are much shorter. Go figure....

Thame
05-08-2008, 11:33 AM
Well now that ive calmed down ( yes I was frustrated GREATLY) Ill explain my post more in depth.

Lag is lag, but since the hotfix its worse. To the point of rubberbanding constantly or locking in place for 1 minute then rubberbanding back. In this time mobs get to beat the **** out of you and you cant do nothing. Usually by the time u band back your dead. As for the cause its game side not mine. Especially when I can walk AROUND the area that causes the rubberbanding.

When u are trying to kill a cleric or priest he hits you with searing light then heals himself then light then heal then light then heal. No cooldown timers are not the same for mobs that they are toons. Thats a line of ****.

Unlimited mana is another load of ****. if my cleric cast spells like the priest mobs Id never have mana. This leads onto the exploit topic.

If a person could figure out how to spam spells like mobs do or have unlimited mana it would be an exploit and he would be banned, but its ok if the mobs do it?

I was ****ed off from spending 2 hours trying to beat gwenlyns stand and running into this constantly, finally I had to give up after 4 deaths, tons of plat on repairs, and in general being in an absolute rage at the audacity of the devs crying to stop exploiting when the mobs do it constantly.

Theres my gripe

ArkoHighStar
05-08-2008, 11:38 AM
Indeed "rounds" in DDO are somewhat abstract. For the purposes of the "massive damage" mechanic I would estimate it lasts for maybe 3 seconds.

For magic-casting purposes, a round is 6 seconds. However, for meleeing purposes, they are much shorter. Go figure....

You can easily stop a caster from casting, You can actually see them raising their arms to cast and then stop as you hit them, its not so much massive damage but a percentage of HP, that will triggerthe failure. The one thing that is hard to tell is whether it is a % of hp at ful health or whether it is based on remaing hp, so the more damage the caster takes the easier it is to interrupt him

ENGRAV0
05-08-2008, 11:42 AM
Thanks Arko, and not to argue, in any shape or form, but I know those dastardly little kobold shamans raise their hands at me when I am whaling away at them, and they always hit me with magic missile. I have yet to see them be interupted. I guess if I take some time off another game I am playing, I will hop back in and check this out in fruther detail, maybe with a slightly less damage dealing weapon so some critters can last long enough for me to see if they get interupted. But thank you for providing a little more guidance on the subject.

Cupcake
05-08-2008, 11:44 AM
Well now that ive calmed down ( yes I was frustrated GREATLY) Ill explain my post more in depth.

Lag is lag, but since the hotfix its worse. To the point of rubberbanding constantly or locking in place for 1 minute then rubberbanding back. In this time mobs get to beat the **** out of you and you cant do nothing. Usually by the time u band back your dead. As for the cause its game side not mine. Especially when I can walk AROUND the area that causes the rubberbanding.

When u are trying to kill a cleric or priest he hits you with searing light then heals himself then light then heal then light then heal. No cooldown timers are not the same for mobs that they are toons. Thats a line of ****.

Unlimited mana is another load of ****. if my cleric cast spells like the priest mobs Id never have mana. This leads onto the exploit topic.

If a person could figure out how to spam spells like mobs do or have unlimited mana it would be an exploit and he would be banned, but its ok if the mobs do it?

I was ****ed off from spending 2 hours trying to beat gwenlyns stand and running into this constantly, finally I had to give up after 4 deaths, tons of plat on repairs, and in general being in an absolute rage at the audacity of the devs crying to stop exploiting when the mobs do it constantly.

Theres my gripe


SInce the fix, I have had days where I have no lag at all and days like this morning where I could hardly move.

Some days its there for me some not. Go figure.

Cupcake
05-08-2008, 11:46 AM
THank you Aspenor and Arko.

Hubby was questioning this the other night.

Missing_Minds
05-08-2008, 12:02 PM
Indeed "rounds" in DDO are somewhat abstract. For the purposes of the "massive damage" mechanic I would estimate it lasts for maybe 3 seconds.

For magic-casting purposes, a round is 6 seconds. However, for meleeing purposes, they are much shorter. Go figure....

Actually in this case it is more like 1.5 to 2 seconds. After they do their *grunt, fall back like they just smelt something bad* they are ready to go again. This interruption only lasts for about 2 seconds really. What is fun is when you can double team the caster and repeatedly do this to them.

Magic casting rounds do not exist really. I've watched kobold shamans cast spell after spell after spell as fast as they could. Then I've seen gnolls cast, wait 2 seconds and cast again. The real limiter seems to the spell cool down timer.

But the "grunt" reaction is the only way to interrupt their casting. It won't interrupt their attacks or movement though.

Pellegro
05-08-2008, 12:13 PM
Unlimited mana is another load of ****. if my cleric cast spells like the priest mobs Id never have mana. This leads onto the exploit topic.

If a person could figure out how to spam spells like mobs do or have unlimited mana it would be an exploit and he would be banned, but its ok if the mobs do it?

I won't address the lag issue except to say I completely agree.

As for mob caster cool-downs, that really doesn't bother me much. I can see why one might prefer perfect symmetry for some kind of theoretical reason, but at the end of the day I don't see their fast-casting as making them overpowered.

I will address the unlimited mana .... Its essential. Unfortunately, the AI available in a game like this is very very lame. If mob casters had limited mana, it would be supremely easy to trick them into wasting it, and leaving them useless. It would transform encounters with enemy casters into "how do we best force them to waste their mana" - and the challenge wouldn't be too great (or even much fun).

Hope that helps you feel a bit better.

Milolyen
05-08-2008, 12:17 PM
Actually they do have a set amount of mana but it just regens. If you do not belive me then summon an efreeti and target him. While he is under your control and attacking mobs he casts spells and you see his blue bar go down and will actually empty and that is when he will attack more while his mana regens. Now if he gets dispelled and is no longer under your controll he attacks you the same way. The casters we face will do the same thing. They will spam spells for a bit then melee then cast some more spells and then melee so on and so forth till they are dead. Just most of the mobs have an inflated mana pool just like they have an inflated hp pool.

*edit*Even then we face new spell casters each time. Lets do a quick what if on the anniversary event. Say we faced a huge pit fiend there that was like cr 90 or something (just a what if) and the casters KNEW they where gonna die but they wanted to get as much dmg done as quickly as possible so that he did not have as many hps for the next caster and so on. You are going to mana dump on him and hit him with everything you have while you last that 30 seconds (average life span of a caster we face is it not) and you would have more than enough mana to do so for those 30 seconds as well. How long would it take you to run out of mana if you chain casted say DBF, cone of cold, polar ray and what ever else spell you are going to cast with max,empower, and quick along with what ever other meta magic feats you want to include? My bet is it will take you longer to do this than it does for the average spell caster we face to die.

Milolyen

thatguy
05-09-2008, 08:02 AM
Further evidence that a segment of the player base wishes for only their opinions to be shown on the DDO forums.

I agree.