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View Full Version : Recommendations for the Game from "Citizens for the Refinement and Upgrade of DDO"



jbrownos
04-25-2008, 02:19 PM
---|CRUD Suggestions|---

Firstly, I would like to note that the entire membership of Citizens for the Refinement and Upgrade of DDO (which is composed entirely of my singular personage) began playing during headstart, and has been playing on and off ever since. And as the solitary member whose views are covered by CRUD, I’ve decided to post some recommendations.

I realize there is quite a bit here, but I think there are some good ideas that would be beneficial for someone at Turbine to examine. I came up with most of them myself, although I’ve had some outside inspiration from other players on a few.

We'll begin with my three favorites.



The Cleric's Salvation: Craft Wands/Scrolls

One of the biggest complaints from many clerics is the cost of scrolls and wands. With the new crafting system, now would be the perfect time to implement an option from PnP that would help lessen this issue. Casters in PnP can create their own wands/scrolls from spells they cast at much lower cost than buying them. The best options initially would be Heal scrolls and Cure Light/Moderate/Critical wands. After that, experimentation with further spells could be examined. I would suggest NOT requiring a feat to be spent for basic healing-spell crafting (anything spontaneously castable). For other spells, it might either require a feat or an enhancement line with increasing spell levels (i.e. 1 AP for 1-2 level spells, 2 AP for 3-4 level, etc.)

If abuse was a concern (although keep in mind it's no different now, just more expensive) then there could simply be a limit on either the number of scrolls you could use or produce. Just as an example (amongst many possibilities), you could have an xp cost that doesn't actually remove xp, but simply flags part of it as no longer useable for crafting.



Incremental or Decremental (Increasing/Decreasing) Attack Bonus for Enemies

This is a big one, and I've seen it mentioned by other players. Armor Class tends to be more effective in DnD at lower levels. But in PnP this isn't nearly as severe as in DDO, because of one major design difference.

In PnP, each successive attack in the same round has a lowered attack bonus. The reason for this is quite simple -- it allows lower Armor Class to still block some attacks. Not having it in DDO causes AC to function quite differently than is intended, and renders lower AC essentially useless. If an opponent has 4 attacks, each will blockable by a different high/medium/lower/lowest AC range. This makes any level of AC have at least some potential benefit, even if the earlier attacks will ALWAYS hit you. A high AC fighter may only have to worry about the first attack. A mid-AC character might have 2-3 attacks that are in a potential range to overcome their AC. Whereas a lower AC caster will at least have a chance of blocking the 4th attack from AC.

This is pretty straightforward to convert to DDO, as players already have something similar with increasing attack bonus chains. The same thing would work for monsters if their first attack was lowered and then time they made an attack it would increase by 5 up until they reached the current level. But a decreasing bonus starting at the current level would probably make more sense, as players would have less incentive to "hit-and-run" to avoid higher attacks. And a decreasing bonus would still allow the high-bonus attacks to go through if the monster is killed or disabled quickly.



Countering Dispel Magic

Having buffs dispelled can be VERY bad for most players, especially considering that buffs are supposed to last through many more battles than in PnP. So it would be excellent for all caster classes to have a spell or series of spells that could absorb a limited number of dispels before they actually start affecting buffs. A sort of "buff buffer" if you will pardon the pun (which I know is terrible, but it's still a worthwhile idea).


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jbrownos
04-25-2008, 02:19 PM
And without further delay, a few more CRUD ideas.


Arcane Spell: Transmute Weapon
Basically it would be nice to see a high level arcane spell that would allow a single target's weapon to function as transmuting for a short time (maybe 12 seconds/level before extend). This would help players who don't necessarily have the best equipment to still be able to contribute in fights involving high DR. This would be better as an arcane-only instead of divine, since it might be somewhat overpowered on battleclerics.



Metamagic Feat: Persistant Spell
Casting a persistent spell allows the recipient to retain the effects of the spell even after resting. The feat would differ from PnP in that the spell would still have a normal timer, and still end when it runs out. It would be worthwhile for saving mana on rebuffing, but it wouldn't be overpowered in any way. It already happens with the House J/P buffs, so the capability already seems to be coded into the game.


Observer Mode for Quests
It would be nice to have an option where a player could enter a dungeon as an observer only to learn unfamiliar quests, or just hang out without actually playing. Basically the existing soulstone system would work fine, except the player wouldn’t take up a slot in the group or have the grayed-out death graphics. One player would carry their stone and they would stay close to them, just like a regular soulstone. The stone would preferably be tradable in case the player wanted to switch patrons. A limit could be imposed on the number of observers if necessary.


Ignore Keywords
Platinum spam tells seem to be getting more common with the addition of unconfirmed mail. I managed to get four in under an hour recently. These messages typically include one of a small handful of website URLs. So why not allow a player to specify keywords (like these URLs) that will cause a tell to be ignored automatically? That way, players could block any new sites that come up. And the spammers will be less likely to try to bypass the filters since they will only be blocked by players that are actively trying to ignore them.


For the Future: True Resurrection Spell Alternatives
Since the True Resurrection spell provides benefits that aren't relevant in DDO, it's obvious that it would need to function differently. So here are some alternatives. First of all, there could simply be a spell that can raise multiple targets. A second, and more interesting option, would be to provide a (single-target) "preemptive" resurrection that is cast on a player while still living. It would then instantly raise the target (maybe around half hp) the first time he/she dies. In all other ways it would be just like dying and resurrecting, including the removal magical effects. To limit it's power, a shortened duration or rare component (like for stoneskin) might be a consideration, or it could only work if the player dies within a certain proximity to the caster.

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jbrownos
04-25-2008, 02:21 PM
New Favor Reward Ideas:
This section is for ideas related to favor rewards. Favor rewards are one of the nicer features of DDO IMO, and I’m sure I’m not the only player who would like to see a few more of them to work towards.

Also, right now there is a bit of a void in favor rewards before 1750. Eventually you have most of the individual faction rewards, but depending on playstyle, it’s possible to end up with a long stretch before 1750 without any new ones in the near future. If there were some increase in the house rewards around 200-250 it would allow you to work toward several smaller goals, and make the favor reward system even more um… rewarding. Below are a few possibilities that could be used with this concept, or just added independently.


Improve the existing Silver Flame blessing and give it a second version:
To be honest, the existing "Blessing of the Silver Flame" is pretty mediocre. Usually once you get it, you are going to have enough SP/HP that it few people will ever just stand around and wait to regenerate -- especially with such a small rate increase. So it might be initially increased to a percentage based on total hp/sp. Perhaps around 1-2% per round. Then in addition, there could be an upgraded version that would be strengthened around silver flame healers (in other words in taverns) that would increase the rate to about 5% (only inside a tavern, keep in mind). It would kind of be like having free food and drink permanently in taverns. This would preferably be removed in the tavern brawling areas, for obvious reasons.


Add a second increase to House Jorasco Buffs:
The most obvious addition here would be to improve the Energy Resists from 20 to 30 reduction. Protection from Energy would be a nice addition, and maybe add Death ward and Freedom of Movement.

Add additional times/day to the Phiarlan trinket and make it function more like a wand/rod:
The Phiarlan trinket could be changed to a wand-like format or something else that doesn't remove anything else in your trinket slot. As an upgrade, it could work 3x/day instead of one (still only in town though) and possibly be usable on other players.


Allow portable bank access in town areas for Kundarak favor:
For the next level of House Kundarak favor it would be nice to access your bank account more readily if you need to change out some equipment or just store something. This could be done with an item that would allow direct access to your bank account once per rest in any map that's flagged as a town area. A second possibility is obvious -- just add another bank slot. I'm betting that it shouldn't be to much more load on the servers as it would only be on some characters and would only be twenty more items at most.

Coin Lords’ Disciple:
In many areas, merchants are supposed to offer slightly better rates once the player completes certain quests. Since the Coin Lords are masters of all commerce in Stormreach, they could simply extend this benefit to all merchants in the game, including brokers (or even just the brokers would be nice). Alternately, they could provide someone to offer training in the form of a small permanent haggle bonus to the player.

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Impaqt
04-25-2008, 02:24 PM
Mobs dont get the Progressive attack bonus's like we do.

You want Scrolls, wands and attacks to go more PnP like, but then you want our buffs to go completely away from PnP?

jbrownos
04-25-2008, 02:32 PM
Mobs dont get the Progressive attack bonus's like we do.

You want Scrolls, wands and attacks to go more PnP like, but then you want our buffs to go completely away from PnP?
Newest CRUD suggestion: make sure to read the suggestions carefully before commenting on them.

I didn't say that monsters have progressive attack. I said that in PnP they have regressive attack bonuses to make a wider range of AC more helpful. And I'm suggesting that they simply implement that or add an incremental bonus like players already have.

Also, I'm not suggesting any changes to the buffs as opposed to PnP. I'm just saying that since they have to last longer in DDO, it would be nice to have a spell that could absorb a few dispels before to allow at least some protection for them.

Angelus_dead
04-25-2008, 02:41 PM
Metamagic Feat: Persistant Spell
Casting a persistent spell allows the recipient to retain the effects of the spell even after resting. This seems like an obvious enough translation from PnP. It would be worthwhile for saving mana, but it wouldn't be overpowered in any way. It already happens with the House J/P buffs, so the capability already seems to be coded into the game.
No, it would be overpowered in Every way. It was already overpowered in some scenarios in D&D, but it would be much WORSE in DDO. Are you aware of how the value of instant versus ongoing effects shifts proportionately to shifts in character durability?



Observer Mode for Quests
It would be nice to have an option where a player could enter a dungeon as an observer only to learn unfamiliar quests, or just hang out without actually playing. Basically the existing soulstone system would work fine, except the player wouldn’t take up a slot in the group or have the grayed-out death graphics. One player would carry their stone and they would stay close to them, just like a regular soulstone. The stone would preferably be tradable in case the player wanted to switch patrons. A limit could be imposed on the number of observers if necessary.
That would be really bad. Gameplay isn't supposed to be about memorizing someone else doing it so you can learn exactly what's going to happen before you ever try yourself.



For the Future: True Resurrection Spell Alternatives
Since the True Resurrection spell provides benefits that aren't relevant in DDO, it's obvious that it would need to function differently. So here are some alternatives. First of all, there could simply be a spell that can raise multiple targets. A second, and more interesting option, would be to provide a (single-target) "preemptive" resurrection that is cast on a player while still living.
The best way to improve True Rez would be to have it remove or reduce the death penalty debuffs. As an optional addition, it also might allow some of the long-term buffs on the character to be restored when he comes back to life.

D&D already includes a separate pre-emptive Raise spell, known as Death Pact.

jbrownos
04-25-2008, 02:55 PM
No, it would be overpowered in Every way. It was already overpowered in some scenarios in D&D, but it would be much WORSE in DDO. Are you aware of how the value of instant versus ongoing effects shifts proportionately to shifts in character durability?

You're absolutely right about it being insanely overpowered if it were exactly like it's PnP counterpart. All I'm suggesting is that it allows existing buffs to last through resting. The timers would be exactly the same, and it would still run out after the spell duration. I can see how you might not get that from my description, so I'll edit it to make it more clear, though.



That would be really bad. Gameplay isn't supposed to be about memorizing someone else doing it so you can learn exactly what's going to happen before you ever try yourself.

You have a valid point here, but how many players honestly don't try to familiarize themselves with quests before going in anyway? I'm not talking about memorizing, just getting a general idea of what the quest is about. And the biggest benefit is being able to go along and enjoy the fun even if you don't want/can't participate in the quest itself.



The best way to improve True Rez would be to have it remove or reduce the death penalty debuffs. As an optional addition, it also might allow some of the long-term buffs on the character to be restored when he comes back to life.

D&D already includes a separate pre-emptive Raise spell, known as Death Pact.
Not a bad idea, although it would be semi-conditional outside of long continuous battles, since taking up a level 9 slot would need to have a significant payoff. I wasn't aware of Death Pact, but if it were included, it sounds like it would be a great addition.

Xaearth
04-25-2008, 06:59 PM
The Cleric's Salvation: Craft Wands/Scrolls

One of the biggest complaints from many clerics is the cost of scrolls and wands. With the new crafting system, now would be the perfect time to implement an option from PnP that would help lessen this issue. Casters in PnP can create their own wands/scrolls from spells they cast at much lower cost than buying them. The best options initially would be Heal scrolls and Cure Light/Moderate/Critical wands. After that, experimentation with further spells could be examined. I would suggest NOT requiring a feat to be spent for basic healing-spell crafting (anything spontaneously castable). For other spells, it might either require a feat or an enhancement line with increasing spell levels (i.e. 1 AP for 1-2 level spells, 2 AP for 3-4 level, etc.)

If abuse was a concern (although keep in mind it's no different now, just more expensive) then there could simply be a limit on either the number of scrolls you could use or produce. Just as an example (amongst many possibilities), you could have an xp cost that doesn't actually remove xp, but simply flags part of it as no longer useable for crafting.


Hmm... I think rather than making their own scrolls and wands, clerics would much better benefit from the ability to make their own potions.
Now, I know some are already thinking "Potions do next to nothing for tanks nowadays." Well, while it wouldn't be exactly like pnp, I'd suggest allowing a larger range of potions than normally covered by the Brew Potion feat. Namely heal potions. Think about it, with the high levels of damage and hp out there nowadays, heal pots, even if they healed for a minimal amount, would go a long way to player survivability compared to the measly cure serious pots we have. My guess is that, even if they healed for the same amount as a heal scroll (not factoring in higher Cleric lvl and devotion bonuses or metamagics), many tanks out there would love to have them. This would take some of the stress off clerics healing, as well as giving the added benefit of giving clerics a nice source of income from making and selling these potions.

Now, some might say that this would be a bad idea in that it might make clerics less needed. To that I say, so what? If clerics are getting rich off the things anyways, who cares? It's win-win, clerics get rich AND get to start spamming destruction and blade barrier. Not to mention the fact that, as hp and damage totals continue to rise, this will eventually become a necessary change. So why not give it to clerics instead of those greedy vendors NPCs?

Note: To those of you who think this is too divergent from pnp, know that there is some precedence in other past dnd based games *cough*NWN*cough*.

sirgog
04-26-2008, 01:31 AM
---|CRUD Suggestions|---


Countering Dispel Magic

Having buffs dispelled can be VERY bad for most players, especially considering that buffs are supposed to last through many more battles than in PnP. So it would be excellent for all caster classes to have a spell or series of spells that could absorb a limited number of dispels before they actually start affecting buffs. A sort of "buff buffer" if you will pardon the pun (which I know is terrible, but it's still a worthwhile idea).


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I think there's a PnP spell that does this, Ablation. Can't remember the details tho.

That said, mobs need an answer to our insane buffs. Back in the days of Mod 4, where we were almost never dispelled, Greater Heroism was almost an absolute must-have for every Sorc (not to mention Wizards) - it was probably their second best spell (second only to Haste). Now, it's a good option to take, but not a must-have - a perfect balance IMO.

sirgog
04-26-2008, 01:51 AM
Hmm... I think rather than making their own scrolls and wands, clerics would much better benefit from the ability to make their own potions.
Now, I know some are already thinking "Potions do next to nothing for tanks nowadays." Well, while it wouldn't be exactly like pnp, I'd suggest allowing a larger range of potions than normally covered by the Brew Potion feat. Namely heal potions. Think about it, with the high levels of damage and hp out there nowadays, heal pots, even if they healed for a minimal amount, would go a long way to player survivability compared to the measly cure serious pots we have. My guess is that, even if they healed for the same amount as a heal scroll (not factoring in higher Cleric lvl and devotion bonuses or metamagics), many tanks out there would love to have them. This would take some of the stress off clerics healing, as well as giving the added benefit of giving clerics a nice source of income from making and selling these potions.

Now, some might say that this would be a bad idea in that it might make clerics less needed. To that I say, so what? If clerics are getting rich off the things anyways, who cares? It's win-win, clerics get rich AND get to start spamming destruction and blade barrier. Not to mention the fact that, as hp and damage totals continue to rise, this will eventually become a necessary change. So why not give it to clerics instead of those greedy vendors NPCs?

Note: To those of you who think this is too divergent from pnp, know that there is some precedence in other past dnd based games *cough*NWN*cough*.


There are Heal potions, as the 400 Silver Flame favor reward.

They have a nasty little drawback to balance them, which makes them unsuitable to zergers, but they are very very potent. (The main Heal potion cures 250hp, but knocks you around really badly for 30 seconds. The lesser Heal potions heal 100hp)

Lorien_the_First_One
04-26-2008, 08:24 AM
The Cleric's Salvation: Craft Wands/Scrolls


An interesting idea and approach. Basically you are just offering clerics a cheaper price for healing items based on spending a few AP. Might be fair trade off, especially if they items were bound.