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Uproar
04-14-2008, 06:40 PM
I noted this in the recent post on WF Armor Class http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=139775


Originally Posted by Angelus_dead
It's true that virtually all WFs with high AC are fighters, and the others probably have high dex.

Here's what you can do with 16 dex.
10 base
+8 adamantine body
+1 dex
+2 daggertooth
+6 docent
+9 shield
+5 deflection
+2 chaosgarde
+1 dodge
+2 defensive fighting
=
46

Then toss in buffs from other classes:
+5 ranger
+4 paladin
+4 bard
+2 cleric
+1 arcane
=
+16

or 62 total AC. (The +6 docent is raid loot, though, so go to +5 without it)

I am not sure how Armor Mastery and Armor Agility will work in relation to these calculations.

How do I find my 'natural' dex cap without taking Armor Mastery.

Can someone shed some light on the matter?

And what skills does Armor Agility actually boost besides (likely) Swimming and (maybe) Jumping?

wolfy42
04-14-2008, 09:17 PM
Dex cap in adamantium armor without armor mastery is 1 (or 12 dex).

With all 3 fighter armor agilities it goes up to 4.

As far as what armor mastery boosts, I belive it is the following (may miss some).

Hide
Move silently
Jump
Swim
Open locks
Disarm traps
Tumble


Think that is it.

Tumble only needs enough points to have 1 left after the penalty to work..so no biggie there.

Non-warforged can take off armor before disarming/opening locks...making Warforged be at a disadvantage naturally, but this can be reduced by docents (which can be switched at will) and enhancements such as fighters armor mastery.

Warforged can not reach the same high ac's as other classes because of restrictions like mithril armor, and dwarven armor agility. Mithril Full plate with maxed fighter armor agility and maxed dwarven armor agility = much higher AC bonus then a WF can get.

WF though can get a natural DR equal to a permanent Stoneskin which is a nice advantage (for non barbarians at least since it doesn't stack) and makes up a bit for the AC.

Remember that you need to have a high enough dex to take advantage of the armor agility feats. Mithril armor with both dwarven and fighter enhancements gives you a 9 ac bonus possible from dex...requiring a 28 dex to pull off. Not easy at all for most fighter types to reach especially not without having +2 to dex at creation.

Most characters that do reach such high levels go with TWF builds (halfling TWF build works well getting another +1 ac from size, a +1 bonus to hit that stacks with your high dex already and boosts to strength from fighter levels to help with dmg later on).

MrCow
04-14-2008, 10:31 PM
Warforged can not reach the same high ac's as other classes because of restrictions like mithril armor, and dwarven armor agility. Mithril Full plate with maxed fighter armor agility and maxed dwarven armor agility = much higher AC bonus then a WF can get.

A dwarf can get a DEX bonus of 28 in mithril full plate as you stated giving a total of 22 AC (+8 full plate, +5 for +5 mithril full plate, +9 DEX, total of 22 based on armor and DEX).

A Warforged can get a DEX bonus of 36 in mithril armor with 5 mithril fluidity feats and fighter armor mastery III (although, only 4 are worth it as a dodge feat substitutes a mithril fluidity, bringing the reasonable amount to 34 DEX). The problem is that a Warforged has issues reaching a DEX that high (although, it could be done with a base of 18, +4 level, +3 tome, +6 item, +1 rogue/ranger DEX enhancement, +3 greensteel DEX weapon, +1 Litany of the Dead gives a possible 36 DEX to a Warforged).

So, from this a Warforged with a DEX of 34, Mithril Body, and 4 Mithril Fluidity feat along with fighter armor mastery III could reach 23 AC (+5 mithril body, +6 Docent of the Claw/Docent of Featly, +12 DEX, total of 23 based on armor and DEX).

I'm not saying that it would be worth the cost (5 feats, 12 to 14 AP, 4 items that have to be worn and are mostly time consuming to obtain, and a rare specific tome), but a Warforged is capable of trumping the mighty dwarf in terms of innate armor-based AC.


And what skills does Armor Agility actually boost besides (likely) Swimming and (maybe) Jumping?


Balance
Hide
Jump
Move Silently
Swim (Double the penalty)
Tumble

wolfy42
04-14-2008, 11:18 PM
Thanks MrCow, I didn't think about going the mithril route.

That is alot of feats to use though but a pretty cool idea for a TWF Warforged (gotta sacrifice 2 points of DR as well though).

Dodge works for both the dwarf and the warforged though, so thats really 4 points you could get over a dwarf (using 4 feats) vs 3 points a dwarf can get just using enhancement points.

Still if you wanted to go crazy eek out 1 more AC as a warforged then a dwarf...good to know...especially since you can do it with non-fighter type characters which require a much lower dex at that point to reach the max.

I like Adamantium even though it's not as good for the AC because of the DR bonus. Having a perma stoneskin by lvl 6 (and the ability to boost it even higher if you want to use feats) = too good to pass up for me:)

wolfy42
04-14-2008, 11:31 PM
Hmm on second thought I forgot about Mithril armor for the dwarf which can boost max dex bonus by 2.

That brings the combined bonus dex you can get as a dwarf to 5 versus 4 that you can get using mithril fluidity feats as a warforged (and of course you get that 5 bonus without having to use extra feats).

Mithril body is a base 10 AC (5 armor and 5 dex) versus the 9 bonus you get with platemail (8 armor 1 dex).

End results from my calculations of both are:

Dwarf = (8 armor + 5 magical + 9 dex +3 dwarf + 3 fighter) 22

WF = (5 armor + 5 magical (docent) + 5 dex +3 fighter + 4 mithril fluidity.) 22

So to me it seems like both can get the same AC although if the WF gets a +6 docent he would have a 1 AC advantage possible.


Very close to the same but the cost is far more extreme for the WF.

Also if you use the same # of feats for a WF as improved DR you would have 2 base + 3 enhancement + 4 feats = 9/adamantium DR all the time. In addition you could still have 8+1+5+3= 17 AC from your armor (5 less then mithril but with a nice 9 DR in exchance).

Toss on displacement and your far better off with the DR especially with a mod fort item on at least in my opinion.

Getting off topic anyway..sorry lol.

wolfy42
04-14-2008, 11:33 PM
Sorry for all the posts....but I thought of something.

Isn't dodge a fighter bonus feat?

That means you could take all 5 as mithril fluidity then and still have the dodge feat right?