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Ripperx
04-13-2008, 04:12 PM
Hey guys i'm fairly new to the game been playing for about 6days now... i've played other MMO's like Daoc, EQ, WoW etc. When i first started the game as everyone I was given the option to fill in base points. Here comes my suggestion! There should be an option to respec these points, maybe even in premium services? A lot of mmo's have given these options out because many people just like me might have screwed up at the beginning but only found out in later times. It's just a suggestion, post what you think guys thanks.

Angelus_dead
04-13-2008, 05:09 PM
Yes, there should be an option to do that somehow.

Any game which changes the rules mid-stream to make a player's earlier choices less valid should give them a chance to adjust by respeccing existing characters.

boldarblood
04-13-2008, 05:37 PM
Hey guys i'm fairly new to the game been playing for about 6days now... i've played other MMO's like Daoc, EQ, WoW etc. When i first started the game as everyone I was given the option to fill in base points. Here comes my suggestion! There should be an option to respec these points, maybe even in premium services? A lot of mmo's have given these options out because many people just like me might have screwed up at the beginning but only found out in later times. It's just a suggestion, post what you think guys thanks.

I'd love to be able to respec skills. I would prefer not to see it as a premium service but more like Fred in House J with using Dragon Shards.

KristovK
04-13-2008, 11:15 PM
Resetting stats because people didn't bother to actually read all the information given them at character creation..no, don't see the point. If you don't take the time to read the info given you, you will mess up and you'll figure that out fairly quickly in DDO and it's really easy to reroll and correct.


Yes, there should be an option to do that somehow.

Any game which changes the rules mid-stream to make a player's earlier choices less valid should give them a chance to adjust by respeccing existing characters.

NO! They should not give any option to respec because a player's earlier choices is LESS VALID due to game changes, they are still valid choices.

Now, making earlier choices INVALID, that's a possible situation when respec should be allowed, but it's situational. Take the Evasion fix as an example. People KNEW the feat wasn't supposed to work in anything more than light armor(clearly stated that in the ingame info for the feat) but took advantage of it working in any armor, even AFTER it was publically stated by the devs that it would be fixed. Clearly a situation where a respec isn't deserved or required. So far, the only changes by the devs have affected feats and builds based on feats or enhancements. Feats we CAN respec, 1 free and you pay for the rest. Enhancements can be changed as you wish for just an ingame coin cost. None of those had an effect on stats, matter of fact, if you start off with the stats your class or classes require, and add to them as you level up, none of the game changes by the devs have invalidated your choices. I personally can't think of any changes to the game the devs could make that would invalidate stat choices, it's hard to actually do that without changing how the stats work totally, and that would mean remaking the game from DDO to something else totally.

In_Like_Flynn
04-13-2008, 11:23 PM
Hey guys i'm fairly new to the game been playing for about 6days now... i've played other MMO's like Daoc, EQ, WoW etc. When i first started the game as everyone I was given the option to fill in base points. Here comes my suggestion! There should be an option to respec these points, maybe even in premium services? A lot of mmo's have given these options out because many people just like me might have screwed up at the beginning but only found out in later times. It's just a suggestion, post what you think guys thanks.Yes, brother. Yes.

bobbryan2
04-14-2008, 09:07 AM
Resetting stats because people didn't bother to actually read all the information given them at character creation..no, don't see the point. If you don't take the time to read the info given you, you will mess up and you'll figure that out fairly quickly in DDO and it's really easy to reroll and correct.



NO! They should not give any option to respec because a player's earlier choices is LESS VALID due to game changes, they are still valid choices.

Now, making earlier choices INVALID, that's a possible situation when respec should be allowed, but it's situational. Take the Evasion fix as an example. People KNEW the feat wasn't supposed to work in anything more than light armor(clearly stated that in the ingame info for the feat) but took advantage of it working in any armor, even AFTER it was publically stated by the devs that it would be fixed. Clearly a situation where a respec isn't deserved or required. So far, the only changes by the devs have affected feats and builds based on feats or enhancements. Feats we CAN respec, 1 free and you pay for the rest. Enhancements can be changed as you wish for just an ingame coin cost. None of those had an effect on stats, matter of fact, if you start off with the stats your class or classes require, and add to them as you level up, none of the game changes by the devs have invalidated your choices. I personally can't think of any changes to the game the devs could make that would invalidate stat choices, it's hard to actually do that without changing how the stats work totally, and that would mean remaking the game from DDO to something else totally.

Heh, you make it sound like the character generator lists all of the components of a perfect build and people simply aren't 'reading' them if they make a gimped character. In fact, in a lot of ways, the in game text actually causes you to make less informed decisions because they give maxims that are true to a pnp game and not DDO.

I'm one for realizing that the very nature of the metagame is that it's supposed to change from update to update. I also have no problems with major respeccing options being costly.

Also, you don't realize "very quickly" in DDO that a reroll is required. If you play this game for any amount of time you'll realize that there are two completely different rulesets for 1-13 and 14-16. In 1-13 everyone can melee effectively, armor class is important, DPS isn't all that useful of a stat ability, and sorcerers and wizards can get by with low to medium constitutions. Once you start nearing the cap and especially after hitting the cap you start to realize by just how much the game's ruleset changes. Too many people take for granted these things after years of playing, but the truth is, most new characters are completely unaware how the game works at the highest levels.

The character generator continues to tell people that dex is important to casters because their armor class is low without it. Hell, it talks about armor class like it's an important stat for more than 2-3% of the builds I see.

And as far as your thoughts on evasion. You pretty much misremember the situation. The devs actually said they 'weren't' going to fix it, not that they were. So people continued to put it into builds because they heard it was safe to do so. The only good thing with that change was that the devs increased mob to hit by so much in the next update that the only people this change actually effected were evasion intimi-tanks.

And as far as invalidating stats goes... upon startup, does the character generator tell you that dex and wis are two of the most useless stats. That con is the second best stat for any class, or that most characters can probably get by with an 8 intelligence because the majority of skills in this game are worthless? Everytime armor class gets taken down a bit further and DPS is made into a more important stat, Dex becomes less and less useless. Dex has become the new dumpstat for rogues and rangers even with the advent of insightful reflexes.

So basically... I disagree with you on almost every point that this game doesn't have big swings from one build focus to the next, and that the devs don't devalue certain stats and increase the value of others. The real question, is how should a respec work. I think it would ruin the in game feat system if it merely required money and a dragonshard. And I have no real problem with leveling up again.. I just have an issue with having to respend 6 months grinding raids and whatnot to find the old tomes and raid loot the character had.

I actually just recently made a thread on how I wanted respeccing to work, you can check it out if you want it.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=142261

Turial
04-14-2008, 09:26 AM
It would be nice if there way some form of deeper character respec then what is currently offered due to how the rules change on players. They should be fairly costly options though. The information that is given in the character creation is pretty funny now that I go back and read it. They list wisdom as a important stat for paladins but don't mention charisma (silly).

The evasion "fix" is remembered differently based on what point you found out about it or how long you've played. Initially they said there wasn't going to be a fix to it. The issue bounced around in the forums and batman builds gained a good deal of popularity (with good reason) and there wasn't much word on it. A few months prior to the fix occuring players on the forums were speculating on monks and figured out that a cleric/monk build could get one of the highest AC's in the game, maintain evasion, and potent spell casting abilities as well as melee abilities. Not saying that it was the straw that broke the camels back but a fix was announced around that time potentially in preparation for monks. At that point people continued to build batman builds and a few of them built them to work in Mithral breastplates, KDS, elven chain, and mithral shirts but the current builds that couldn't change that way took a massive hit. Not saying the whole thing was good or bad just my rememberance of the events.


Heh, you make it sound like the character generator lists all of the components of a perfect build and people simply aren't 'reading' them if they make a gimped character. In fact, in a lot of ways, the in game text actually causes you to make less informed decisions because they give maxims that are true to a pnp game and not DDO.

I'm one for realizing that the very nature of the metagame is that it's supposed to change from update to update. I also have no problems with major respeccing options being costly.

Also, you don't realize "very quickly" in DDO that a reroll is required. If you play this game for any amount of time you'll realize that there are two completely different rulesets for 1-13 and 14-16. In 1-13 everyone can melee effectively, armor class is important, DPS isn't all that useful of a stat ability, and sorcerers and wizards can get by with low to medium constitutions. Once you start nearing the cap and especially after hitting the cap you start to realize by just how much the game's ruleset changes. Too many people take for granted these things after years of playing, but the truth is, most new characters are completely unaware how the game works at the highest levels.

The character generator continues to tell people that dex is important to casters because their armor class is low without it. Hell, it talks about armor class like it's an important stat for more than 2-3% of the builds I see.

And as far as your thoughts on evasion. You pretty much misremember the situation. The devs actually said they 'weren't' going to fix it, not that they were. So people continued to put it into builds because they heard it was safe to do so. The only good thing with that change was that the devs increased mob to hit by so much in the next update that the only people this change actually effected were evasion intimi-tanks.

And as far as invalidating stats goes... upon startup, does the character generator tell you that dex and wis are two of the most useless stats. That con is the second best stat for any class, or that most characters can probably get by with an 8 intelligence because the majority of skills in this game are worthless? Everytime armor class gets taken down a bit further and DPS is made into a more important stat, Dex becomes less and less useless. Dex has become the new dumpstat for rogues and rangers even with the advent of insightful reflexes.

So basically... I disagree with you on almost every point that this game doesn't have big swings from one build focus to the next, and that the devs don't devalue certain stats and increase the value of others. The real question, is how should a respec work. I think it would ruin the in game feat system if it merely required money and a dragonshard. And I have no real problem with leveling up again.. I just have an issue with having to respend 6 months grinding raids and whatnot to find the old tomes and raid loot the character had.

I actually just recently made a thread on how I wanted respeccing to work, you can check it out if you want it.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=142261

bobbryan2
04-14-2008, 09:33 AM
It would be nice if there way some form of deeper character respec then what is currently offered due to how the rules change on players. They should be fairly costly options though. The information that is given in the character creation is pretty funny now that I go back and read it. They list wisdom as a important stat for paladins but don't mention charisma (silly).

The evasion "fix" is remembered differently based on what point you found out about it or how long you've played. Initially they said there wasn't going to be a fix to it. The issue bounced around in the forums and batman builds gained a good deal of popularity (with good reason) and there wasn't much word on it. A few months prior to the fix occuring players on the forums were speculating on monks and figured out that a cleric/monk build could get one of the highest AC's in the game, maintain evasion, and potent spell casting abilities as well as melee abilities. Not saying that it was the straw that broke the camels back but a fix was announced around that time potentially in preparation for monks. At that point people continued to build batman builds and a few of them built them to work in Mithral breastplates, KDS, elven chain, and mithral shirts but the current builds that couldn't change that way took a massive hit. Not saying the whole thing was good or bad just my rememberance of the events.

That's basically how it went down... except that there wasn't time for people to 'continue' building batman builds. Between the announcement that evasion was being fixed, and it actually being fixed, there was probably a month at most.

Players speculated for quite some time that evasion was going to be fixed with monks coming out, but there was no official dev statement right up until the wire. The only dev statement before that was an archaic statement by Eckleberry saying they weren't going to fix it. Player speculation and dev statements are generally two very different things.

And yes, the intimi-tanks that only had about 20 dex took a pretty large hit in effectiveness, and it would have been great for them to have some sort of deeper reroll feature to give up a point or two of strength and charisma to get a little more dexterity.

Angelus_dead
04-14-2008, 10:01 AM
Resetting stats because people didn't bother to actually read all the information given them at character creation..no, don't see the point. If you don't take the time to read the info given you, you will mess up and you'll figure that out fairly quickly in DDO and it's really easy to reroll and correct.
Ha ha ha.


NO! They should not give any option to respec because a player's earlier choices is LESS VALID due to game changes, they are still valid choices.
What an amazing thing to say.

In lieu of explaining it myself, I'll direct you to D&D Player's Handbook II chapter 8, with the caveat that every reason given there goes double for a computer game.