View Full Version : Getting use out of low level HD spells

04-13-2008, 12:20 AM
So this totally doesn't follow any type of "rule" but was thinking / wishing for a way to get more use out of those seemingly "useless" spells that have hit dice checks for immunity.

I am currently leveling a wizard who has access to 3rd level spells and also have a capped sorcerer. The two spells which brought about the thought were Scare and Daze monster.

Daze monster has a blanket immunity for any monster with 7+ hit dice.
Scare has a blanket immunity for any monster with 6+ hit dice. (Was in Tear of Dhakaan - normal, and was getting immune messages on certain mobs, base level 7 quest)

Now these two spells are both "effective" means of crowd control but only for a short period of time.
Daze monster shares the same spell list with Otto's. Which are both single target forms of crowd control. As a sorcerer being limited to spell choices this spell would never make it into the spell slot over ottos. Ottos is essentially useful throughout the entire game. Whereas Daze monster becomes "useless."

What I think would be a neat tweak to these spells (or any other type of spell with a hit dice check) would be to modify the spells to read something like this:

This spell affects creatures with 6 or less hit dice or 1 hit die per caster level (for example) whichever is higher. In addition to this an ehancement line to add additional plusses to the HD affect of spells that are limited to it.

There is a similar item in the game and ehancements for clerics and paladins for Turn Undead. Sacred is an item that does this.

Anyways I'd just like to see more longevity out of these types of spells.

04-13-2008, 01:10 AM
Long ago I started a human necromancer. First 2 feats were spell focus: necromancy. My first spell was Scare. Sounded great. Worked great on normal and hard in waterworks. Then I hit elite, and everything except the normal "Kobold" kobolds were immune. Kobold throwers, shamans, warriors and rogues were all past the point of caring about scare.

Thats when i dropped it for ottos :D

04-13-2008, 03:45 PM
I would love to see something like this. Removing the HD requirement would be the best solution, in my opinion, but really anything that lets me use deep slumber at higher levels would be great.

04-14-2008, 09:23 AM
Spell: Daze Monster
Clouds the mind of an enemy so that it takes no actions for 6 seconds. Creatures of 7 or more Hit Dice are not affected. A successful Will save negates this effect.
School: Enchantment
Components: Material, Somatic, Verbal

Spell: Otto's Resistible Dance
At your touch, enemies feel an undeniable urge to dance and begin doing so, complete with foot shuffling and tapping. The spell makes it impossible for the enemy to do anything other than caper and prance in place. A successful Will save negates this effect.
School: Enchantment
Components: Verbal

Otto's is available at level 1 for Bards, otherwise both spells are level 2 for wizards and sorcerers. Otto's has a longer duration (20 seconds vs 6 seconds), is usable throughout your career, and has fewer components. As far as I can tell they both affect the same monster types. In every way, Otto's is superior to Daze Monster. There is no reason whatsoever to choose Daze Monster over Otto's Resistable Dance (at least with the information available).

The only minimal benefit to Daze Monster is the fact that it is ranged. Something to consider, but again, considering the overall utility of the spell, Otto's is superior.
Even if Daze Monster has a faster casting time (which I'm not sure it does), it wouldn't warrant a slot in a spell list.