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avatar28
04-09-2008, 01:43 PM
hey guys gonna re-roll my sorc to try and do a spell pen build (i'm tired of my charm and hold spells not working)

this build I figure would maximize chances of my CC spells succeeding, as well as deal out alot of damage if needed.
I focused this guys damage spells and enhacements on acid/electricity.

any sorcerers out there find that force/repair build would be better?

I chose alot of different types of dmaging spells as well, trying to be versatile.
I'm not sure which ones work best, but I had to throw disentegrate in there, cause it rocks.

anyway, If someone sees a better way of rolling this build, or different spells I should pick instead let me know.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 2.85
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Cerebus
Level 16 Neutral Good Human Male
(16 Sorcerer)
Hit Points: 132
Spell Points: 1610
BAB: 8\8\13
Fortitude: 8
Reflex: 4
Will: 9

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 16)
Strength 8 8
Dexterity 8 8
Constitution 16 16
Intelligence 14 14
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 18 26

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 16)
Balance -1 -0.5
Bluff 4 14
Concentration 7 25
Diplomacy 4 8
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 6 17.5
Heal 1 8.5
Hide -1 0
Intimidate 4 8
Jump -1 0
Listen -1 -1
Move Silently -1 0
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 2 2
Search 2 2
Spot -1 -0.5
Swim 1 1
Tumble n/a n/a
Use Magic Device 6 20.5

Level 1 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Greater Spell Penetration
Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration

Level 2 (Sorcerer)

Level 3 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell

Level 4 (Sorcerer)

Level 5 (Sorcerer)

Level 6 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Selected) Heighten Spell

Level 7 (Sorcerer)

Level 8 (Sorcerer)

Level 9 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell

Level 10 (Sorcerer)

Level 11 (Sorcerer)

Level 12 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell

Level 13 (Sorcerer)

Level 14 (Sorcerer)

Level 15 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Use Magic Device

Level 16 (Sorcerer)
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Charisma I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Improved Empowering I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Improved Empowering II
Enhancement: Sorcerer Improved Maximizing I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Concentration I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Concentration II
Enhancement: Sorcerer Concentration III
Enhancement: Sorcerer Lineage of Energy I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Energy Manipulation I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Energy Manipulation II
Enhancement: Sorcerer Energy Manipulation III
Enhancement: Sorcerer Energy Manipulation IV
Enhancement: Sorcerer Spell Penetration I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Spell Penetration II
Enhancement: Sorcerer Spell Penetration III
Enhancement: Sorcerer Energy of the Dragonblooded I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Energy of the Dragonblooded II
Enhancement: Sorcerer Energy of the Dragonblooded III
Enhancement: Sorcerer Energy of the Dragonblooded IV
Enhancement: Sorcerer Charisma I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Charisma II
Enhancement: Sorcerer Charisma III
Enhancement: Sorcerer Wand Mastery I

avatar28
04-09-2008, 01:44 PM
p.s.

not sure on how the heighten feat works..

does that mean that If I was level 10, and I cast hypnotisim on a mob, with heighten enabled, it would now be a level 10 spell??
I'm not sure on it's benefits or usage.

thx!

moorewr
04-09-2008, 01:49 PM
p.s.

not sure on how the heighten feat works..

does that mean that If I was level 10, and I cast hypnotisim on a mob, with heighten enabled, it would now be a level 10 spell??
I'm not sure on it's benefits or usage.

thx!

Heighten casts any heighten-able spell at your highest spell level for the Spell DC, so, for example a level 14 Sorc would cast a heightened PK as a Level 7 Spell.

This doesn't affect Spell Pen. Spell Pen goes off your caster level for all spells that can be resisted.. so that PK would be base Spell Pen 14 in the example above.

One comment on your build: I never notice Spell Resistance affecting my Spells until you run into Duergar.. so I would wait until level 9 or 12 to start taking Spell Pen Feats.

Starrloom
04-09-2008, 01:52 PM
Essentially heighten increases the spells DC - so, if your level 16 with heighten on and you cast hypno - it would be like hypno is a lv8 spell rather then lv 1.

For example - as a LV16 Sorc I have a normal DC for FOD of 29 if I was to turn on heighten I would have a DC of 30 (+1 because it is now cast as a lv 8 spell)

Hope that helps....

avatar28
04-09-2008, 03:17 PM
i wanted to take spell and g.spell pen so I could hypno/charm/halt/control/hold more often.
my current sor seems to fail these types of spells way too often, I figured with those feats, it would make it easier

moorewr
04-09-2008, 03:20 PM
i wanted to take spell and g.spell pen so I could hypno/charm/halt/control/hold more often.
my current sor seems to fail these types of spells way too often, I figured with those feats, it would make it easier

Wont help! Or rather, it will only help those situations where you see a blue sparkle in front of the mob when you cast. It doesn't change the number the mobs are saving against if they fail SR or do not have SR.

Most low level mobs have no SR.. I'm trying to think of low level quests with Spell Resistant mobs w/o success.. maybe some red names..?

dragons1ayer74
04-09-2008, 03:37 PM
I would likley go something like this.

Feat: (Human Bonus) Empower Spell
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
Level 3 (Sorcerer) Feat: (Selected) Heighten Spell
Level 6 (Sorcerer) Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration
Level 9 (Sorcerer) Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Penetration
Level 12 (Sorcerer) Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Level 15 (Sorcerer) Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Use Magic Device

You don't start running into eniemies that reist spells until 7th level quests and even then its rare but their gets more and more as you level up. If you like your caster other than mising spell pentration feat already I would sugest you buy some dragon shards and visit fred to do a feat respec. As others have mentioned be sure that you are anoyed with actal spell reisists ratehr than flatout immunities before you respec or reroll your sorc.

MageLL
04-09-2008, 04:05 PM
My wizard is level 16, and he has greater spell pentration.

Spell pentration only effects if the spell will go through the spell resistance. It does not effect if they will save vs the spell, that would require spell focus which will increase your spells Die Check (DC), heighten also effects the spell DC.

Some mobs just have higher saves in certain categories.

My wizard with greater spell pen rolls 1 die 20 + 24 to go through mobs spell resistance. I rarely get resisted but do see alot of saves.

redoubt
04-09-2008, 06:13 PM
Why are you not going drow if you want to charm? I understand that you get an extra feat and I know I'd love to have one, but...

You are minus one DC from the start. Not a big deal if you nuke a lot, but you talked about spell pen and your charms/holds not working.

I have a drow sorc that started with 20 CHA. Now at 36. Using the torc (DQ raid) and the pencil of death (reaver +2 enchant focus), 2x spell focus enchant, 1x spell pen feat, heighten, 3x spell pen enhance I get a 35DC will save on enchantments and a +24/23 spell pen.

I admit to a small compromise in not takeing greater spell pen feat... i took maximize instead to add some versitility.

avatar28
04-10-2008, 08:42 AM
ok granted maybe I don't want to take spell pen feats, but I'd like to hit beholders more often with PK.

but spell focus only gives +1 to beat the DC, Is a +1 on the roll really worth a feat?

so what's my best option In building a sorcerer who can have CC spells succeed more frequently?

and I looked at building a 20 cha drow, but the rest of his stats were horrible. I figured having a decent con with a sorcerer would be good to keep him alive longer. Is it worth it in the long run to max out a drow with cha, and take the hit on 1 less feat, fewer skill points? Remember, humans can add a +1 to any stat with enhancements, drows can't. So that would only be 1 cha point in the difference

moorewr
04-10-2008, 08:47 AM
ok granted maybe I don't want to take spell pen feats, but I'd like to hit beholders more often with PK.

but spell focus only gives +1 to beat the DC, Is a +1 on the roll really worth a feat?

so what's my best option In building a sorcerer who can have CC spells succeed more frequently?

and I looked at building a 20 cha drow, but the rest of his stats were horrible. I figured having a decent con with a sorcerer would be good to keep him alive longer. Is it worth it in the long run to max out a drow with cha, and take the hit on 1 less feat, fewer skill points? Remember, humans can add a +1 to any stat with enhancements, drows can't. So that would only be 1 cha point in the difference

Drow Sorc with 20 CHA, Spell Focus feat (but maybe only one). 14 CON is all you can pull off but that's enough.... so maybe take toughness if you have room, and get a minos legens. Use a focus item, find a +6 CHA item, and farm a CHA tome.

That said, you DO want Spell Pen, but only later, and you can swap a feat if need be around level 13.

avatar28
04-10-2008, 09:17 AM
spell focus feat? which one? I don't know which school of magic most CC spells belong to. PK? Hold person/monster, Hypnotism?

I think SF is a waste of a feat for that extra +1, especially considering it only works on 1 type of spell.

moorewr
04-10-2008, 09:20 AM
spell focus feat? which one? I don't know which school of magic most CC spells belong to. PK? Hold person/monster, Hypnotism?

I think SF is a waste of a feat for that extra +1, especially considering it only works on 1 type of spell.

PK -> Illusion

Most Crowd Control spells are enchantments, I believe.

The feat is only a waste if you aren't havign mobs face too often. I have it on my sorc (in fact i have SF:Illusion since I did not take FoD), but the real game winner is Heighten.

Line-dog
04-10-2008, 02:19 PM
I started out with charm but dropped it due to it not being as mana efficient as I expected. At level 8 with WoF, FB, Scorching Ray, the correct enhancements, a potency IV or combustion IV item in one hand, and a fire lore item in the other you can start to get drunk on all the power you'll have in some quests. You'll feel like everyone else in the party is along for the ride. :D. And you can still have buffs, haste and CC. Glitterdust, Web, and Hypnotism when used on the correct creature type will land _most_ of the time. Don't plan on using web on minotaurs, don't expect to hypno many casters.

However, if you really want to be focused on charms, holds, hypnos, etc... And you want them be to stick and last I would recommend two focus feats in Enchantment, Heighten, and a wearable (bracers) focus item. At lvl 9 take Spell Pen. And at 12 take GSP. Get the spell pen. Enhancements as you go up from there.


Formy play style however (Sorc generalist) those two focus feats are overkill; I want other feats. Cast spells with the right correct save for the approoriate creature type. I finger of death and stone casters, and I hold monster fighter types. Acid Fog is CC for both types.

Cheers-

transtemporal
04-11-2008, 01:23 AM
spell focus feat? which one? I don't know which school of magic most CC spells belong to. PK? Hold person/monster, Hypnotism?

I think SF is a waste of a feat for that extra +1, especially considering it only works on 1 type of spell.

Most CC spells belong to the enchantment school but a few key ones (like solid fog, acid fog, web, glitterdust) are conjurations.

School Focus is tricky for a Wizard to fit in, let alone a sorc, but I do think its worthwhile if your playstyle means you're going to be using that school a lot. The most extreme example I saw was a sorc with SF & Gtr SF: Illusion just for PK. He wasn't hugely great at anything else but boy could he instakill! :)

esoitl
04-11-2008, 01:38 AM
i run a CC based sorc with both the Enhanctment and Illusion focus lines and yes they help a lot

heighten is key for any CC build but for a damage sorc i'd say drop it
what do you want to do end game??

redoubt
04-11-2008, 04:11 PM
ok granted maybe I don't want to take spell pen feats, but I'd like to hit beholders more often with PK.

but spell focus only gives +1 to beat the DC, Is a +1 on the roll really worth a feat? Yes.

so what's my best option In building a sorcerer who can have CC spells succeed more frequently?

and I looked at building a 20 cha drow, but the rest of his stats were horrible. I figured having a decent con with a sorcerer would be good to keep him alive longer. Is it worth it in the long run to max out a drow with cha, and take the hit on 1 less feat, fewer skill points? Remember, humans can add a +1 to any stat with enhancements, drows can't. So that would only be 1 cha point in the difference
Yes.


Pk, Fod, Banishment, hold, charm, dance and even disintigrate have saving throws (many others as well.) Any spell that has a save will benifit from increase CHA.

Consider that a sorc with 18CHA starting and not taking the feat is -3 DC versus a spec'd CC sorc. (assuming identical gear.) To me as a CC/enchanter DC means everything.

Merkinsal
04-14-2008, 06:32 PM
I would recommend taking a look at what spells are not hitting what mobs before you go crazy putting feats into Spell Focus. You will find after a while which mobs are easiest hit with a fortitude save or a will save spell. I believe trying to bypass a will save on a cleric is just not worth the aggrevation, or the fortitude on a troll. I have worked that into my strategy as an alternative to burning one or two feats in a Focus for one school of spells and been very happy with the results. Also, I always have heighten on because that does more than a focus feat for increasing DC.