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View Full Version : An argument for acid/electric spec



LeLoric
04-07-2008, 01:08 AM
So you all may be thinking what is this idot talking about but with the current high end content I just want to point out the benefits of acid/elec.

Pros:

-acid dot; with many mobs now immune or high resist to fire acid in mod 6 content is generally a better dot spell. Start out a big boss fight with a melfs and you will do more dmg per spell point than almost any other spell in the game, if it crits even better. and thats the weaker of the two spells acid fog is a great spell currently with the slow mobs effect plus increased miss chance that will stack with displacement and a pretty decent dot I always cast this on the pit fiend helping mitigat dmg and without crits about 20-30 dmg a tick not much but when crit i hit up to 100 per tick some decent dmg much better than sitting there flinging ice storm wands, which coincedentally you can still do while getting acid dmg.

-chain/ball lightning; once again with most mobs immune or highly resistant to fire these are now your best aoe dps spells. Chain lightning has a higher possible dmg than dfb due to no sup 7 items in game yet and it goes up to 20d6. Ball lightning is easier to land and does more dmg on most mod 6 mobs than cone of cold especially all the mobs that matter.

Cons:

-lower firewall dmg; not really a con as its still pretty potent when called for I still use em fairly frequently especially in the middle of an acid fog. With my current setup unless the firewall crits ill generally do more dmg with this combo than my fire/cold specced sorc does.

-lack of non save dmg spells; this is probably the biggest issue but with a high enough dc it doesnt seem to matter too much scorching ray is nearly useless anymore due to resists applying to all three rays, wall of fire i can still use fairly effectively, I do use polar ray on fire eles and this is probably the biggest difference but not a gamebreaker.

So just some thoughts on the benefits of acid/elec anyone else switched over yet?

sirgog
04-07-2008, 03:10 AM
My Sorc is fully fire/cold specced and has 7APs spent on acid/elec (+10, 20 and 30% damage, and the first crit chance enhancement, which was my very last AP to spend at cap).

I'm quite a fan of Acid Arrow and Acid Fog now, for the reasons you stated. The biggest problem is that a mob in four Firewalls takes 4x the damage - this doesn't apply to acid DoT effects. This makes me sad.

Ball Lightning hasn't impressed me, honestly, due to the awkward area it covers. Cone of Cold is far superior as it hits many more foes when cast on a pack.

LeLoric
04-07-2008, 04:37 AM
My Sorc is fully fire/cold specced and has 7APs spent on acid/elec (+10, 20 and 30% damage, and the first crit chance enhancement, which was my very last AP to spend at cap).

I'm quite a fan of Acid Arrow and Acid Fog now, for the reasons you stated. The biggest problem is that a mob in four Firewalls takes 4x the damage - this doesn't apply to acid DoT effects. This makes me sad.

Ball Lightning hasn't impressed me, honestly, due to the awkward area it covers. Cone of Cold is far superior as it hits many more foes when cast on a pack.

I generally find the opposite with coc, and yeah the not being able to stack multiple sucks guess thats another con hehe

Vhlad
04-07-2008, 04:41 AM
Many of the enemies in mod 6 have acid resistance.

Run the shroud on elite with acid arrow and tell us if you see any numbers on the pit fiend at all.

I ran with a full acid build a bit during mod 5 when they made some ghosts immune to fire. I quickly found that cone of cold was better. Cycling between cone of cold + otilukes + polar ray is massive DPS that can't be matched by a acid/lightning build. Firewall + scorching ray cycling is another strong combo. And disintegrate or magic missle for anything immune to fire + cold.

It would be nice if acid/lightning was more appealing, but it doesnt beat cold/fire right now IMO.

LeLoric
04-07-2008, 04:42 AM
Many of the enemies in mod 6 have acid resistance.

Run the shroud with acid arrow and tell us if you see any numbers on the pit fiend at all.

I do see acid dmg on the pit fiend in fact acid fog when crits does up to 100 per tick as i said in the op

definately more dmg than any firewall will see :P

Vhlad
04-07-2008, 04:48 AM
I do see acid dmg on the pit fiend in fact acid fog when crits does up to 100 per tick as i said in the op

definately more dmg than any firewall will see :P

gah. I edited my post to be more clear.

FluffyCalico
04-07-2008, 04:48 AM
Many of the enemies in mod 6 have acid resistance.

Run the shroud on elite with acid arrow and tell us if you see any numbers on the pit fiend at all.

I ran with a full acid build a bit during mod 5 when they made some ghosts immune to fire. I quickly found that cone of cold was better. Cycling between cone of cold + otilukes + polar ray is massive DPS that can't be matched by a acid/lightning build. Firewall + scorching ray cycling is another strong combo. And disintegrate or magic missle for anything immune to fire + cold.

It would be nice if acid/lightning was more appealing, but it doesnt beat cold/fire right now IMO.

As long as you have anything that will hit him you can kill him. There are mana pools and well it might take 10 hrs but yes one person can kill him.

Vhlad
04-07-2008, 04:52 AM
As long as you have anything that will hit him you can kill him. There are mana pools and well it might take 10 hrs but yes one person can kill him.

Of course. But we're talking about acid damage, and I was referring to whether or not you would see any red numbers at all using acid arrow on the pit fiend on elite. The OP is arguing the benefit of acid DOT, but DOT takes a big hit from elemental resistance.

LeLoric
04-07-2008, 04:57 AM
the trio of lightning bolt/ball lightning and chainlighting equals your cold trio actually surpasses it against any devils including pitfiend because there is no lightning resist. Yeah you do lose some effectiveness with acid fog on pit fiend due to resists but it will still do more dmg per sp than any other spell against him plus it helps negate some dmg from pit fiend on melees due to the miss chance.

FluffyCalico
04-07-2008, 05:00 AM
the trio of lightning bolt/ball lightning and chainlighting equals your cold trio actually surpasses it against any devils including pitfiend because there is no lightning resist. Yeah you do lose some effectiveness with acid fog on pit fiend due to resists but it will still do more dmg per sp than any other spell against him plus it helps negate some dmg from pit fiend on melees due to the miss chance.

1) Ever hear of acid rain?
2) Force missle actually works best on pit fiend.
3) Most damage per spell point would be haste

LeLoric
04-07-2008, 05:03 AM
1) Ever hear of acid rain?
2) Force missle actually works best on pit fiend.
3) Most damage per spell point would be haste

1) yes i have i use it too, acid fog is still better as more ticks
2) not better than lightning spells when fully specced for it crit ball lightnings over 900 chain lightnings over 1000
3) talking direct dmg here

FluffyCalico
04-07-2008, 05:11 AM
1) yes i have i use it too, acid fog is still better as more ticks
2) not better than lightning spells when fully specced for it crit ball lightnings over 900 chain lightnings over 1000
3) talking direct dmg here

Simpily put the lighting line is great, the fire line is good, the cold line is good, and force line is good. Acid line is by far the weakest of all.

LeLoric
04-07-2008, 05:15 AM
Essentially heres how my pit fiend fights go.

Haste/cc for beginning fight

Acid Fog in middle

debuff with ray of enfeeb and exhaust

acid fog again if first not crit

bring sp pool down to about 70% with lightning spells

mm (7th wand the rest of round)

rehaste

Refog

kill gnolls

if 2 rd kill dump mana with lightning spells if not go to about 30% then wand

repeat for 3rd round if more than 3 rounds group sucks lol

remove the haste step if bard in group.

Total dmg done around 7-10 k depending on crits (this is an estimate if two acid fog crits gonna be more than that )

FluffyCalico
04-07-2008, 05:15 AM
Pros:

but when crit i hit up to 100 per tick some decent dmg much better than sitting there flinging ice storm wands, which coincedentally you can still do while getting acid dmg.



?

Random mob
Wow you have a 2d6 critting for 100 damage that's pretty good. Just think if you were using a damage spell what you would crit for.

2d6 is 7 damage on avg x2 max x1.5 emp x 1.5 super potence x1.4 enhancements so 44 on non crits

32d6 real spell 112 damage on avg x2 max x1.5 emp x 1.5 super potence x1.4 enhancements so 705 on non crits.

Sorry 44 down right sucks for damage. Its a CC spell for a reason.

Blah I can't remember if the Xs all multiply each other or just the base
But either way its 16x the damage as your tick so you would need 16 ticks just to break even. Assuming all the ticks hit.

Vhlad
04-07-2008, 05:16 AM
the trio of lightning bolt/ball lightning and chainlighting equals your cold trio actually surpasses it against any devils including pitfiend because there is no lightning resist. Yeah you do lose some effectiveness with acid fog on pit fiend due to resists but it will still do more dmg per sp than any other spell against him plus it helps negate some dmg from pit fiend on melees due to the miss chance.

lightning bolt: 10d6 (reflex for half)
ball lightning: 15d6 (reflex for half)
chain lightning (max 20d6): 16d6 (reflex for half)

cone of cold: 15d6 (reflex for half)
otilukes: 15d6 (reflex for half)
polar ray (max 25d6): 16d6 (no save)

Shroud also has that sup pot 9 staff. So on elite, or even hard, where he's making all his saves, polar ray is nice.

And really, 1 encounter is not enough for me to justify changing my sorc. The cold/fire combo is much better for velah and queen, and for the majority of quests. And I really don't think acid fog or arrow is going to be doing much damage/sp to the fiend at all.

LeLoric
04-07-2008, 05:18 AM
Simpily put the lighting line is great, the fire line is good, the cold line is good, and force line is good. Acid line is by far the weakest of all.

Ill do more dmg by far with an acid crit fog on pit fiend than any other spell once again, a regular fog is still one of the best spells against him

LeLoric
04-07-2008, 05:21 AM
lightning bolt: 10d6 (reflex for half)
ball lightning: 15d6 (reflex for half)
chain lightning (max 20d6): 16d6 (reflex for half)

cone of cold: 15d6 (reflex for half)
otilukes: 15d6 (reflex for half)
polar ray (max 25d6): 16d6 (no save)

Shroud also has that sup pot 9 staff. So on elite, or even hard, where he's making all his saves, polar ray is nice.

And really, 1 encounter is not enough for me to justify changing my sorc. The cold/fire combo is much better for velah and queen, and for the majority of quests. And I really don't think acid fog or arrow is going to be doing much damage/sp to the fiend at all.


factor in resists and lightning easily outdoes the dmg even with the staff without the staff lightning does as much due to no potency for ray resist not even counted

as far as velah and queen sure fire/cold is better but my wiz can do plenty against either of those without any spec in fire/cold. not like those are tough fights for a lev 16 like i said in the op i based this entirely on mod 6 content

Vhlad
04-07-2008, 05:23 AM
Acid rain:
3d4 acid damage every 2 seconds for the duration of the storm. The duration starts at 6 seconds and increases by 2 seconds at level 9 and every 3 caster levels thereafter.

Acid fog:
2d6 acid damage every 2 seconds to targets within the cloud.

Acid arrow:
Deals 2d4 acid damage to a target with a magical arrow of acid. The arrow does an additional 2d4 damage every 2 seconds for a 12 second duration. This duration increases by 6 seconds for every three caster levels after level 3.

The base damage is so low, your DPM (damage per mana) is going to be greatly reduced by anything with acid resistance. Do you even see numbers on normal if you don't get a crit? What about hard/elite?

FluffyCalico
04-07-2008, 05:26 AM
Acid rain:
3d4 acid damage every 2 seconds for the duration of the storm. The duration starts at 6 seconds and increases by 2 seconds at level 9 and every 3 caster levels thereafter.

Acid fog:
2d6 acid damage every 2 seconds to targets within the cloud.

Acid arrow:
Deals 2d4 acid damage to a target with a magical arrow of acid. The arrow does an additional 2d4 damage every 2 seconds for a 12 second duration. This duration increases by 6 seconds for every three caster levels after level 3.

The base damage is so low, your DPM (damage per mana) is going to be greatly reduced by anything with acid resistance. Do you even see numbers on normal if you don't get a crit? What about hard/elite?
QFT
We should just stop. He won't listen. Let him keep using CC for damage. Plus everyone knows all mobs stand in the cloud forever

LeLoric
04-07-2008, 05:26 AM
Random mob
Wow you have a 2d6 critting for 100 damage that's pretty good. Just think if you were using a damage spell what you would crit for.

2d6 is 7 damage on avg x2 max x1.5 emp x 1.5 super potence x1.4 enhancements so 44 on non crits

32d6 real spell 112 damage on avg x2 max x1.5 emp x 1.5 super potence x1.4 enhancements so 705 on non crits.

Sorry 44 down right sucks for damage. Its a CC spell for a reason.

Blah I can't remember if the Xs all multiply each other or just the base
But either way its 16x the damage as your tick so you would need 16 ticks just to break even. Assuming all the ticks hit.

Im generally not saying to use this on the random mob its main use is for the pitfiend and pretty much all ticks hit for about 40 dmg non crit but due to the length of the fights I generally cast several and crit on a good share with full spec when crit this spell hitting for up to 100 dmg per tick is nasty about 20 ticks x100 = 2k dmg.

Any other spells you know that do that kind of dmg? Plus while its ticking off you can cast other spells.

FluffyCalico
04-07-2008, 05:29 AM
Im generally not saying to use this on the random mob its main use is for the pitfiend and pretty much all ticks hit for about 40 dmg non crit but due to the length of the fights I generally cast several and crit on a good share with full spec when crit this spell hitting for up to 100 dmg per tick is nasty about 20 ticks x100 = 2k dmg.

Any other spells you know that do that kind of dmg? Plus while its ticking off you can cast other spells.

LMAO now you are getting 20 ticks per cast and 100% of them are crits. *** how can I get a 100% crit rate on my spells please tell me this magic secret of yours.

So you are building around a creature most bugg anyway. 1 creature noone fights straight up? lol

LeLoric
04-07-2008, 05:32 AM
Acid rain:
3d4 acid damage every 2 seconds for the duration of the storm. The duration starts at 6 seconds and increases by 2 seconds at level 9 and every 3 caster levels thereafter.

Acid fog:
2d6 acid damage every 2 seconds to targets within the cloud.

Acid arrow:
Deals 2d4 acid damage to a target with a magical arrow of acid. The arrow does an additional 2d4 damage every 2 seconds for a 12 second duration. This duration increases by 6 seconds for every three caster levels after level 3.

The base damage is so low, your DPM (damage per mana) is going to be greatly reduced by anything with acid resistance. Do you even see numbers on normal if you don't get a crit? What about hard/elite?

yes i do on any difficulty, pit fiend acid resist does not increase with difficulty. avg dmg on acid fog without crit is about 35-40 x about 20 ticks = 700-800 thats almost as much as a crit lightning spell will do. And while these ticks are counting off I am blasting him with those same lightning spells.

Guaranteed a acid/light spec caster will do more dmg against pit fiend than a fire/cold, same goes for any red named devil/bezekira. Other red nameds are about a wash except fire elemental.

LeLoric
04-07-2008, 05:33 AM
LMAO now you are getting 20 ticks per cast and 100% of them are crits. *** how can I get a 100% crit rate on my spells please tell me this magic secret of yours.

So you are building around a creature most bugg anyway. 1 creature noone fights straight up? lol

if the spell crits all ticks are at crit dmg same thing for firewall I dont say i crit all the time.

are you saying you exploit now?

FluffyCalico
04-07-2008, 05:40 AM
if the spell crits all ticks are at crit dmg same thing for firewall I dont say i crit all the time.

are you saying you exploit now?

Are you saying your tank can keep aggro to hold him in the cloud and you alive while you hit him with 2000 damage spells?

Cause I promise you even with 40% hate reduction I can pull a boss off any tank in the game if I try.

LeLoric
04-07-2008, 05:43 AM
Are you saying your tank can keep aggro to hold him in the cloud and you alive while you hit him with 2000 damage spells?

Cause I promise you even with 40% hate reduction I can pull a boss off any tank in the game if I try.

three tanks positioned around him correctly will hold him in the fog.

I wanna see you gain sole aggro on the pit fiend and hold it, honestly have you ever fought him?

FluffyCalico
04-07-2008, 05:47 AM
three tanks positioned around him correctly will hold him in the fog.

I wanna see you gain sole aggro on the pit fiend and hold it, honestly have you ever fought him?

Yep almost to my 20th end reward. And don't need sole aggro. Just need him to turn and whack me once.

I do something useful in that fight. I use repair spell and reconstuct scrolls on the WF tank (always take 1 of them). With 2 sorc doing this you don't have to bug him to win. And you don't need 3 clerics or 2+1bard either.

Vhlad
04-07-2008, 05:49 AM
This moved fast. lol. I think people missed my edit so I deleted it and am putting it here instead!

Rain
3d4 = 7.5 average.
7.5 * 1.9 (sup pot + full enhancement) * 1.5 (empower) * 2 (maximize)
42.75 average non crit damage. I guess you would see some numbers.
Duration at lvl 16: 14 seconds * 2 (extend) = 28 seconds = 14 ticks of damage.

Fog
2d6 = 7 average
7 * 1.9 * 1.5 * 2 = 39.9 average
(what's the duration of this?)

Arrow
2d4 = 5 average
5 * 1.9 * 1.5 * 2 = 28.5 average
Duration at lvl 16: 36 seconds * 2 (extend) = 72 seconds = 37 ticks of damage (initial + 36 ticks).

Hmmm. I doubt a melfs is going to do much of anything there with such a low base.

Anyone know the fiends acid resistance on norm/hard/elite?

LeLoric
04-07-2008, 05:53 AM
This moved fast. lol. I think people missed my edit so I deleted it and am putting it here instead!

Rain
3d4 = 7.5 average.
7.5 * 1.9 (sup pot + full enhancement) * 1.5 (empower) * 2 (maximize)
42.75 average non crit damage. I guess you would see some numbers.
Duration at lvl 16: 14 seconds * 2 (extend) = 28 seconds = 14 ticks of damage.

Fog
2d6 = 7 average
7 * 1.9 * 1.5 * 2 = 39.9 average
(what's the duration of this?)

Arrow
2d4 = 5 average
5 * 1.9 * 1.5 * 2 = 28.5 average


Duration at lvl 16: 36 seconds * 2 (extend) = 72 seconds = 37 ticks of damage (initial + 36 ticks).

Hmmm. I doubt a melfs is going to do much of anything there with such a low base.

Anyone know the fiends acid resistance on norm/hard/elite?

The only acid i use on pit fiend is fog so couldnt tell ya with melfs if it hits or not, acid resist is about 20-25 on any difficulty and like ive said it usually takes a crit to get a decent result but ill try several times per round on 4 or cast till i get one up on 5 once its up tanks keep him in it and it does some pretty good dmg, sure not more than a tank on him but the fog helps the tanks also

LeLoric
04-07-2008, 05:55 AM
Yep almost to my 20th end reward. And don't need sole aggro. Just need him to turn and whack me once.

I do something useful in that fight. I use repair spell and reconstuct scrolls on the WF tank (always take 1 of them). With 2 sorc doing this you don't have to bug him to win. And you don't need 3 clerics or 2+1bard either.

Rarely if ever use 3 clerics and if theres a wf ill heal i can do that after a fog is up. Even if it didnt do dmg its still useful for the miss chance, however my point is it can still do decent dmg too.

LeLoric
04-07-2008, 05:58 AM
duration of extended acid fog at 16th is 2 min 6 sec so thats actually 63 ticks on a crit that gives max of 100 dmg per tick so up to 6300 dmg costs me 79 spell points

Vhlad
04-07-2008, 06:05 AM
Guaranteed a acid/light spec caster will do more dmg against pit fiend than a fire/cold, same goes for any red named devil/bezekira. Other red nameds are about a wash except fire elemental.

You assume mana is an issue in all cases. With the red named, it's not, and the cold cycling is much better IMO. Resistance to cold is not that high. Polar ray (no save) ends up doing more than chain lightning. Cone of cold is 15d6 vs only 10d6 for lightning bolt. So even with cold resistance I'd say you have parity with cycling lightning. The 5d6 difference from cone of cold alone results in 99.75 average non crit damage difference, so cold is still ahead even if it has cold resist 30.

Regarding fiend:
These 2 sites list acid and cold resistance at 10.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/devil.htm#pitFiend
http://nwn2.wikia.com/wiki/Pit_fiend

Although not sure if it is actually 10 in DDO. If it is only 10 then cold is still pretty super, although the acid DOT would be good too.

Arrow would average: 18.5 * 37 = 684.5
Fog (don't know duration, oh 2 min 6 secs? are you sure it's that long?): 29.9 * 63 = 1883.7
Rain: 32.75 * 14 = 458.5

You can't stack fogs. Can you stack rains with rains and arrows with arrows? I think a 2nd acid arrow just extends the duration. Not sure if multiple rains stack though.

If all these acid spells don't stack and you're in a group killing the fiend in 2 rounds, then you're not really doing more damage compared to spamming polar ray. I say polar ray because people don't cycle 3 spells vs the fiend because DPS is not as important as DPM, so it's really just polar ray (although the sup pot staff apparently goes poof after the portals) vs 2 casts of fog/arrow/rain + chain lightning spamming. He saves a lot so you're still doing more damage with polar ray even without potency.

LeLoric
04-07-2008, 06:11 AM
With a 32 dc he rarely saves so polar does not do more than chain as theres resist to it and no potency unless you have the staff i suppose. polar ray without the staff is about what my lightning bolt does comparing the numbers form my wiz and my fire/cold sorc.
Ball lightning beats coc due to resists. Chain beats Otilukes due to 1 extra d6 and resists.

Yeah resist are higher than what srd shows.

no acid spells stack unfortunately

i just verified duration on my wiz for acid fog

LeLoric
04-07-2008, 06:21 AM
Just wanted to add that the last post i made is generally considering normal shroud elite polar ray is best due to evasion.

Vhlad
04-07-2008, 06:24 AM
With a 32 dc he rarely saves so polar does not do more than chain as theres resist to it and no potency unless you have the staff i suppose. polar ray without the staff is about what my lightning bolt does comparing the numbers form my wiz and my fire/cold sorc.
Ball lightning beats coc due to resists. Chain beats Otilukes due to 1 extra d6 and resists.

Yeah resist are higher than what srd shows.

no acid spells stack unfortunately

i just verified duration on my wiz for acid fog

He has a 19 reflex save from the link I provided. It's probably higher in DDO but who knows (except maybe cow), but we'll go with 19. A 32 DC means you're doing half damage 35% of the time.

Vhlad
04-07-2008, 06:26 AM
no acid spells stack unfortunately


Period? or with each other?

If arrow does not stack with fog, then that's pooh.

LeLoric
04-07-2008, 06:30 AM
Period? or with each other?

If arrow does not stack with fog, then that's pooh.

with teh same spell sorry for not being clear on that yes fog and arrow stack but arrow and arrow or rain and rain do not

sirgog
04-07-2008, 07:39 AM
Everyone that's recommending hitting Arrietrikos with spells that have a Reflex: Half save, think again.

He has a high reflex save (something like 25 on normal i think), and evasion.

You can burn an entire tank of mana on Cone of Cold/Ball Lightning, and not deal a huge amount of damage at all.

Arrietrikos also has an insane Fort save, so Disintegrate sucks.

When I'm on my sorc, part 4 I spend most of my SP on CC and gnoll killing, and drop in the only spell I carry that does much damage - Acid Fog - whenever it's needed. As I'm fire/cold specced but have also dabbled in acid/elec (to the tune of 7AP), I get solid but unspectacular damage on him (about 22 a tick on a normal fog, 60-65 a tick on a crit, but my crits are rarer and less potent than someone fully specced).

Only when he hits 5%hp do I run in and 'go nova' with the rest of my SP.

Part 5, I keep him under acid DoTs, keep the party hasted, displaced and stoneskinned, and resurrect clerics if there's a near-wipe. Again, at 5% I'll go nova.


Still, if you want to do real damage to Arrietrikos, you probably do not want to be an arcane caster.

Huebacca
04-07-2008, 09:45 PM
Everyone that's recommending hitting Arrietrikos with spells that have a Reflex: Half save, think again.

He has a high reflex save (something like 25 on normal i think), and evasion.
You can burn an entire tank of mana on Cone of Cold/Ball Lightning, and not deal a huge amount of damage at all.
My wizard has a 30 dc on evocation spells and arrietrikos never saved twice(this is in the last fight while using the pools)


Arrietrikos also has an insane Fort save, so Disintegrate sucks.
I agree with this statement :D

rattgang
04-13-2008, 04:12 PM
pit fiend and devils are both immune to acid. dont see how you could be doing any damage let alone 20-100 dmg

Tallyn
04-13-2008, 11:57 PM
Fog (don't know duration, oh 2 min 6 secs? are you sure it's that long?): 29.9 * 63 = 1883.7


Positive that duration is that long at 16th level

Tallyn
04-14-2008, 12:00 AM
pit fiend and devils are both immune to acid. dont see how you could be doing any damage let alone 20-100 dmg

Devils are not immune to acid. If you look at the SRD they are immune to fire. They have Cold and Acid Resist: 10.