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roggane
04-04-2008, 11:56 PM
Just wondering, why are there no recipes for making an item with HP and Int/Cha skill exceptional bonus? (if there is a recipe haven't seen it yet)

The spell point bonus does nothing for rogues. An int/cha bonus would be very desirable.

Can understand the division of melee (HP) and casters (sp pts) but an entire class (and other multi-builds) are slighted.

Could this be implemented in the future?

BlueLightBandit
04-05-2008, 08:31 AM
I'm not sure I'm understanding what you're asking for.

If you're commenting on why there isn't an upgrade that benefits every character, well get in line.

If you're looking for an item that improves int based skills, you'll just have to take the good with the bad and wear a wizardry 6 item like the rest of us.

DasLurch
04-05-2008, 10:35 AM
What he is asking for/about is the hope of crafting items out of the shroud that help the one class that is most dependant on skills for some better crafting options. As of right now, any items that you want to craft that would include a bonus to your Int, Wis, or Cha have ONLY spell points added as a bonus. That means 50% of the actual bonus of crafting an item is gone for a Rogue since they do not cast spells. I think it was just part of the simple crafting plan to distribute the bonuses this way, but it was a huge oversight in my opinion to Rogues. Now, paladins, Sorcs, Wizzies, and even some Clerics are getting simmilar, and more often better #'s for their UMD skills than a rogue can because a +6 skill item can be crafted for Cha skills. There are many Cha based skills for Rogues in the game (UMD, Bluff, Intim, Dip, Haggle to name some), and yet that goes overlooked as far as the crafting goes. Int is even more of a rebuke to the class. Search and DD are pretty much a prime part of making a rogue, and they are Int based skills. I think the people who planned this out just simply made a decision to ignore the slight to Rogues. As it stands now, Str, Dex, and Con are all tied into HP bonuses while the others are tied to SP bonuses. They probably felt that it would imbalance the crafting stuff to do otherwise. I too agree that this is a shame.

roggane
04-05-2008, 10:55 AM
What he is asking for/about is the hope of crafting items out of the shroud that help the one class that is most dependant on skills for some better crafting options. As of right now, any items that you want to craft that would include a bonus to your Int, Wis, or Cha have ONLY spell points added as a bonus. That means 50% of the actual bonus of crafting an item is gone for a Rogue since they do not cast spells. I think it was just part of the simple crafting plan to distribute the bonuses this way, but it was a huge oversight in my opinion to Rogues. Now, paladins, Sorcs, Wizzies, and even some Clerics are getting simmilar, and more often better #'s for their UMD skills than a rogue can because a +6 skill item can be crafted for Cha skills. There are many Cha based skills for Rogues in the game (UMD, Bluff, Intim, Dip, Haggle to name some), and yet that goes overlooked as far as the crafting goes. Int is even more of a rebuke to the class. Search and DD are pretty much a prime part of making a rogue, and they are Int based skills. I think the people who planned this out just simply made a decision to ignore the slight to Rogues. As it stands now, Str, Dex, and Con are all tied into HP bonuses while the others are tied to SP bonuses. They probably felt that it would imbalance the crafting stuff to do otherwise. I too agree that this is a shame.

exactly....

roggane
04-05-2008, 10:58 AM
I'm not sure I'm understanding what you're asking for.

If you're commenting on why there isn't an upgrade that benefits every character, well get in line.

If you're looking for an item that improves int based skills, you'll just have to take the good with the bad and wear a wizardry 6 item like the rest of us.

sure, i could do that, but why not ask the question hoping it'll be implemented instead of spending my time upgrading an item that should have had better options in the first place.

BlueLightBandit
04-06-2008, 01:42 AM
sure, i could do that, but why not ask the question hoping it'll be implemented instead of spending my time upgrading an item that should have had better options in the first place.

Sure thing. I'm sure the devs are putting that right on the list... and they'll get to it right after the other umpteen thousand things before it.

roggane
04-06-2008, 02:11 AM
Sure thing. I'm sure the devs are putting that right on the list... and they'll get to it right after the other umpteen thousand things before it.

is there another thread you can add your infinite wisdom to? I'm sure everyone has benefitted from your lively debate and contribution to further the discussion :rolleyes:

Angelus_dead
04-06-2008, 02:25 AM
Can understand the division of melee (HP) and casters (sp pts) but an entire class (and other multi-builds) are slighted.

Could this be implemented in the future?
Well, there's two big balance problems I see in the shroud recipes, and they somewhat cancel each other out.

At a low level, you can't get mental skills without spellpoints, and the class most benefiting from mental skills is rogue (UMD, disable, search, spot) who has no spells.

A high level, you look at the tier3 combination effects. The weapon-damage effects are mostly good, but the clothing effects are "guards" that only trigger when you're hit, and don't seem very worthwhile.

So although a spellcaster can easily get a good spellpoint boost at the low end, they haven't much to look forward too at the high end (and probably will trade away many large ingredients to weapon-using characters)

Impaqt
04-06-2008, 10:54 AM
Rogues did get the short end of the stick as far as Skill Upgrades go.... But they can certainly benefit from Extra hit points. and you can get Dex Skills with that route.

So Openlock, Move Silently, Hide, Balance.... All Nice skills for a rogue build.... Combine that with Radiance like I'm doing with a Sunburst clicky and you can really boost your sneak attack potential.

Perosnally, I'm nore upset about the lack of Axes and rapiers in the Fedundicy table.

Mhykke
04-06-2008, 11:24 AM
Perosnally, I'm nore upset about the lack of Axes and rapiers in the Fedundicy table.

The axe thing really frosts my twinkie.

Spectralist
04-06-2008, 03:27 PM
The axe thing really frosts my twinkie.

The lack of shields & armor does it for me.

As does the OP's issue. My fighter would love +hp & cha skills.

BlueLightBandit
04-06-2008, 06:39 PM
sure, i could do that, but why not ask the question hoping it'll be implemented instead of spending my time upgrading an item that should have had better options in the first place.

Because your question has been asked and addressed many MANY times already. And posting on the forums with the expectation of having something implemented in-game is just plain silly.


is there another thread you can add your infinite wisdom to? I'm sure everyone has benefitted from your lively debate and contribution to further the discussion :rolleyes:

I dunno, I thought the forums were available to everybody... but since you seem to think they're not I'll stick around here just to prove you wrong.

Thanks for being so welcoming.

roggane
04-06-2008, 06:57 PM
Because your question has been asked and addressed many MANY times already. And posting on the forums with the expectation of having something implemented in-game is just plain silly.



I dunno, I thought the forums were available to everybody... but since you seem to think they're not I'll stick around here just to prove you wrong.

Thanks for being so welcoming.

funny, used the search function before posting...... nothing about this topic.

silly for you to be wasting your time posting on it then, if it's all been said, etc.

they are for everyone, and you're welcome :)

Lithic
04-06-2008, 07:07 PM
The recipes probably wont be changed now, but what they could have done was remap the doubles to other stats.

What I mean is that Air and positive both can lead to SP and cha skill points. Why wasnt one str skill and sp? and similarly for other combos.

roggane
04-06-2008, 07:47 PM
yeah, they won't be changed now, but the crafting is in it's infantcy, sure there will be changes made with new recipes that will follow.

Tanka
04-06-2008, 09:04 PM
Because, predominately, casters are the ones whose main stats are Int/Cha. Rogues happen to be *gasp* Dex. They do have some Int- and Cha-linked skills, but, again, Int and Cha as attributes fall under the domination of Wizards, Sorcerers and Bards.

While HP/skills would be an amazing combo, do you really need +6 to your DD/Search skills? Also; how unbalancing would it be to get +HP and +UMD (and obviously Haggle/Bluff/Diplomacy/Intimidate) on the same item -- like an additional 45 HP and +6 to the aforementioned skills?

Of course, that opens the discussion up to how unbalancing the extra SP is, especially for Sorcs and their double SP pool, but I'm afraid that's another topic entirely.

BlueLightBandit
04-06-2008, 11:09 PM
I just can't believe the OP wasn't able to find any other posts that were like "Why didn't they add X, Y or Z to the crafting?"

roggane
04-07-2008, 12:15 AM
I just can't believe the OP wasn't able to find any other posts that were like "Why didn't they add X, Y or Z to the crafting?"

:rolleyes: I just can't believe you have the time to come into threads and offer nothing substantive to them.

Lithic
04-07-2008, 12:28 AM
:rolleyes: I just can't believe you have the time to come into threads and offer nothing substantive to them.

I can't believe it's not BUTTER!

Cambo
04-07-2008, 02:07 AM
They could have just given us the loot generator they use to make named items....lol

I think the awkward combinations are fine. Helps ensure the loot doesnt break the game.

There is synergy between spell points and "mind" skills and HP and "body" skills

There was obviously an intentional descision to not put stat bonuses on accesories only weapons, to stop them being too powerfull.

I run a rogue as my main and yet there are fewer options than for others but there is enough to mean I can have 2 nice weapons and 2-3 nice accesories.

Immunity line of features
cha skills item for UMD/diplomacy / bluff
Intel Skills for DD / Search
Dex Skill with HP for hise open lock and wel HP
Radaince short sword
Transmuting short sword

GlassCannon
04-07-2008, 02:36 AM
yeah, they won't be changed now, but the crafting is in it's infantcy, sure there will be changes made with new recipes that will follow.

Splintered Horns.

roggane
04-07-2008, 03:56 AM
Splintered Horns.

hopefully I have too many already

roggane
04-07-2008, 04:04 AM
They could have just given us the loot generator they use to make named items....lol

I think the awkward combinations are fine. Helps ensure the loot doesnt break the game.

There is synergy between spell points and "mind" skills and HP and "body" skills

There was obviously an intentional descision to not put stat bonuses on accesories only weapons, to stop them being too powerfull.

I run a rogue as my main and yet there are fewer options than for others but there is enough to mean I can have 2 nice weapons and 2-3 nice accesories.

Immunity line of features
cha skills item for UMD/diplomacy / bluff
Intel Skills for DD / Search
Dex Skill with HP for hise open lock and wel HP
Radaince short sword
Transmuting short sword

true, was just a question to see responses, maybe somehow get a dev response for the division... but I guess I don't see how a hp/int skills or hp/cha skills item would break the game.

Cambo
04-07-2008, 04:31 AM
true, was just a question to see responses, maybe somehow get a dev response for the division... but I guess I don't see how a hp/int skills or hp/cha skills item would break the game.

I agree hp/mind skills and spell points/body skills wouldnt break the game...but dont "synergise" as well as the reverse.

Tanka
04-07-2008, 05:59 AM
There was obviously an intentional descision to not put stat bonuses on accesories only weapons, to stop them being too powerfull.
*coughExistentialStalematecoughcough*

Cambo
04-07-2008, 07:09 AM
*coughExistentialStalematecoughcough*

I was going to put that in...but i was reffering to the standard tier bonuses.
ES is only avail to a limited combination..but yes +6 wis is possible on an item ;)

Tanka
04-07-2008, 07:12 AM
I was going to put that in...but i was reffering to the standard tier bonuses.
ES is only avail to a limited combination..but yes +6 wis is possible on an item ;)
It's available to any combination of Negative and Positive. That's not very limited, considering the amount of goodness you can get with that combination.

(Though, that's the only way to get two +6 stat bonuses on a weapon.)