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jboat
04-03-2008, 09:34 AM
I have an open slot and was kicking around the idea of making an Intimi-tank. It would be a warforge with high ac, dr and hit points. I am not going to go into the build specifics for flaming purposes. The whole point to this thread is to ask a few questions to some of you more experienced Imtimi-tank players;
Do you just intimidate and shield block?
What do you do to keep the agro between intimidates?
How viable are these builds at end game?
I am also looking for any other advice anyone can give on these type builds. Your input will help me decide if I want to make this build or choose something else. Thanks for the help.

Groticus
04-03-2008, 09:43 AM
I am only level 10 with my Initimitank so take what I say with a grain of salt. You can and should do good DPS while acting as an Intimitank. I am more or less using Riott's build with minor changes. Even using Riott's build I am normally in second place or higher for total kills during most quests. I suggest you read his thread in this forum and go from there. As you get specific questions I suggest you post them here and find an experienced tank in game.

Talon_Moonshadow
04-03-2008, 10:06 AM
Well.....I don't have a true intimitank....
But.
Of course if you are drawing agro, you want high AC, HP, DR if possible. Maybe saves as well. Resists......defensive stuff.
But to keep agro you need to do damage. However, I think once you have agro, yuo don't need to do super damage to keep it in most cases.
From my experiances with a mage......those fire/acid etc guard items seem to draw a lot of agro.
Could also try fearsome.....agro, then make them useless or degraded for a time.

Prob with WF is low Cha.....but in general intimidate skill does not have to be super high to work. A little goes a long way there IMO.

Riot
04-03-2008, 11:08 AM
Do you just intimidate and shield block?
What do you do to keep the agro between intimidates?
How viable are these builds at end game?

1 ) no.

2 ) Attack

3 ) Very Viable. The build saves a parties resources. it's that simple. it's efficient.

Blazer
04-03-2008, 02:27 PM
Do you just intimidate and shield block?
What do you do to keep the agro between intimidates?
How viable are these builds at end game?

Just to add a bit to what Riot posted, no, you don't just intimidate and shield block, you continue attacking. The point is your AC is high enough that the mobs will only hit you on a 20 (19 or 20 at worst). Since they'll be whiffing nearly all the time, you can attack and score enough hits to keep that aggro between intimidates. Of course, with a good party, the mobs are all dead by the time your intimidate has recycled. These builds have always been viable, the difficulty lies in getting the gear for them and having the people you play with understand the finer points of how your build works. Riot and Borror0 (and me, too) all play intim-builds and predominately play them in our respective guilds, thus making it easier for the group to know how to work together best. I've pugged with my intimitank and it can take some time for the group to understand what the hell is going on. I still to this day have people asking me what the yellow symbols that pop up mean.

Dylos_Moon
04-03-2008, 02:38 PM
If you're going to go the Warforged Route, I would suggest that you add 6 Levels of Paladin to your character. This will give you both a follower of enhancement come mod 7, and the ability to use the divine righteousness ability to DOUBLE the hate that your attacks generate for 20 seconds (1 minute in mod 7). Couple this with Warforged Brute Fighting, and you are Drawing 125% aggro when not using divine righteousness, and 250% aggro when you are using it. This means you only have to do 4/5 the amount of damage to draw aggro when not using divine righteousness, and only 2/5 when you are using it. So when using divine righteousness, you can deal under half the damage the barbarian is, and still pull aggro off him.

And, even though it's a 2 handed weapon, I would recommend trying to get the Maul of Malice from inferno of the damned, which adds another +20% hate, putting you at 145% normal, and 290% divine righteousness, or needing about 2/3 and 1/3 the damage output to draw aggro.

Blazer
04-03-2008, 03:53 PM
San'tar, I'm curious why you are suggesting using all of these melee-oriented ways to draw aggro when Intimidate is flawless.

Xaymaca
04-03-2008, 04:00 PM
I would stay away from WF for an intimi-tank, IMO. You take an automatic hit on Charisma, which is an essential part of being a good intimidator. WF is a good fighter, but not any build that uses CHR for one of its' main attributes.

Dylos_Moon
04-05-2008, 02:57 AM
San'tar, I'm curious why you are suggesting using all of these melee-oriented ways to draw aggro when Intimidate is flawless.

Because intimidate doesn't last the full duration of the cooldown, meaning if you don't establish aggro while the target is focusing on you due to intimidate they will go after their original target before the cooldown expires (assuming they are still alive.)

Blazer
04-05-2008, 12:10 PM
Because intimidate doesn't last the full duration of the cooldown, meaning if you don't establish aggro while the target is focusing on you due to intimidate they will go after their original target before the cooldown expires (assuming they are still alive.)

The part in bold is the key there. Other than high-end red names and raid bosses, nothing really lives long enough where you'll need to hold aggro via DPS, especially in today's game with all the TWF characters. Plus, if you are first into the pack (as you should be) you are the original target for that tiny window where the intim lock is up but the cooldown hasn't recycled yet.

One other point to add - established forum intimitanks (Riot, Borror0) have not expressed an issue with holding the aggro via DPS. The same has been true with my own. I think the misconception is that intimitanks do zero DPS. That's not true. We do less DPS than someone using THF or TWF, of course, but the amount we're doing is hardly zero. Having the proper weapon for the job - which is true for any melee oriented character - makes all the difference in the world.

Forceonature
04-05-2008, 12:37 PM
I would stay away from WF for an intimi-tank, IMO. You take an automatic hit on Charisma, which is an essential part of being a good intimidator. WF is a good fighter, but not any build that uses CHR for one of its' main attributes.

I highly disagree. With a few tomes you can balance out the stats so that the initial CHR stat penalty is a non issue, and you're pumping the intimidate stat every time you level. With WF's innate immunities, you can free up slots for more useful items, which is very important.

I use a build that is loosely based off of Maldini's Timex Tank and I run around with a mithral tower shield. I'm at level 9 and he is a blast to play, and is often the last man standing to save from a party wipe. I've had the entire party die with me left standing facing the Stormcleave boss and I was able to finish it for the group.

The key is to make sure you have the right equipment (Chaosgarde, Mithral TS, etc.). You're not going to out deal high-DPS builds, but you're not designed too. You will outlive them, however. Focus on +5 of whatever weapons, greater banes, and banishers/smiters, etc.

Blazer
04-05-2008, 01:24 PM
I would stay away from WF for an intimi-tank, IMO. You take an automatic hit on Charisma, which is an essential part of being a good intimidator. WF is a good fighter, but not any build that uses CHR for one of its' main attributes.

Yeah, I'm going to disagree with you here as well. Riot's build as a 28pt human started with 8 CHA and except for the Pit Fiend, he's had no issues flooring Intimidate scores across the board.

My only concern with making a WF initmi-tank would be can it get a high enough AC? Part of how Riot, Borror0, and other tanks hit those mid-to-high 50s self-buffed ACs is from using +5 Mithral Full Plate and using 3 ranks of Fighter's Armor Mastery. That's 19 AC (13 base + 6 DEX bonus from a 22 DEX) from armor. I don't know anything about WF but can they get that high with a +5 docent and whatever body they choose (I assume mithral)?

Forceonature
04-05-2008, 07:08 PM
Yeah, I'm going to disagree with you here as well. Riot's build as a 28pt human started with 8 CHA and except for the Pit Fiend, he's had no issues flooring Intimidate scores across the board.

My only concern with making a WF initmi-tank would be can it get a high enough AC? Part of how Riot, Borror0, and other tanks hit those mid-to-high 50s self-buffed ACs is from using +5 Mithral Full Plate and using 3 ranks of Fighter's Armor Mastery. That's 19 AC (13 base + 6 DEX bonus from a 22 DEX) from armor. I don't know anything about WF but can they get that high with a +5 docent and whatever body they choose (I assume mithral)?

WF Mithral body w/ 3 ranks of FAM would allow a DEX bonus of 8 for the following:

5 for body
+5 for docent
8 Dex bonus
-------------
= 18 AC

So it's just one off for that comparison w/ 3 ranks of FAM. Plus, if you add one of the docents from Accursed Ascension (+6 docent/+5 docent with +1 AC bonus) then it equals to a 19.

It can be done, or at least very close.:D

Blazer
04-05-2008, 07:44 PM
WF Mithral body w/ 3 ranks of FAM would allow a DEX bonus of 8 for the following:

5 for body
+5 for docent
8 Dex bonus
-------------
= 18 AC

So it's just one off for that comparison w/ 3 ranks of FAM. Plus, if you add one of the docents from Accursed Ascension (+6 docent/+5 docent with +1 AC bonus) then it equals to a 19.

It can be done, or at least very close.:D

I wasn't sure if the FAM enhancements would allow you to increase your DEX bonus from the body. The enhancement is written around the DEX bonus from armor, which I interpreted for WF as docents; wasn't sure if it worked for the body chosen as well. Thanks.

Borror0
04-05-2008, 08:31 PM
Do you just intimidate and shield block?

No.


What do you do to keep the agro between intimidates?

Attack


How viable are these builds at end game?

Less than a babarian, but still very viable.

The only condition is having the right gear, under a certain point of AC, you're not contributing enough.


These builds have always been viable, the difficulty lies in getting the gear for them and having the people you play with understand the finer points of how your build works. [...] I've pugged with my intimitank and it can take some time for the group to understand what the hell is going on. I still to this day have people asking me what the yellow symbols that pop up mean.

You've been lucky, I usually have to explain to people or they don't get it.

The only ones that get it are the DPS rogues, but those are quite rare. Most people have never seen Intimidate been used before.


I wasn't sure if the FAM enhancements would allow you to increase your DEX bonus from the body. The enhancement is written around the DEX bonus from armor, which I interpreted for WF as docents; wasn't sure if it worked for the body chosen as well. Thanks.

It was broken, but they fixed it little over a year ago.

Strykersz
04-05-2008, 08:43 PM
The main disadvantage to being a wf intimitank is the stigma some clerics still attach to them. The second disadvantage is that you're(realistically) down a few ac. While you can, in theory approach or surpass the ac of +5 mfp by using mithral fluidity feats + mithral body, in practice, you are unlikely to have a dex of 26+(or an abbot docent) that make taking mithral body better than adamantine body.

Snoggy
04-05-2008, 10:33 PM
Do you just intimidate and shield block?
What do you do to keep the agro between intimidates?
How viable are these builds at end game?

1- Nah. I attack. And block. And attack and block. And of course there's always a certain amount of having to move around to chase or gather the monsters to you. So yeah, I move around a lot too.

2- Hit things.

3- As viable as anything else. I mean, the point of the build is to draw aggro onto one target, you. It's a pretty old-school tactic in MMORPGs for a "tank" class. So it works. Even if AC was a placebo and didn't matter one iota, the strategy still works because you're focusing all the attention (for a couple of ticks) on you and saving others from getting hit. Now the argument about AC being viable is just something folks on the forums like to do to pass the time. If you put the effort in to get the very best gear (which oddly enough lots of people tend to do no matter WHAT class they're playing), you get the very best AC, because that's the focus of the build. It's just like trying to build a toon for max DPS or for max Trap saves or for max Charming capability or for max healing prowess. There's feats, enhancements and gear. You need all of that to make it work. And you need the best stuff to make it work the best.


I am also looking for any other advice anyone can give on these type builds. Your input will help me decide if I want to make this build or choose something else. Thanks for the help.

I don't know what else to say other than, if you find it fun to taunt a bunch of monsters into all attacking you at the same time, and you like hacking at things, then the build is fun to play. If you want to do other things, then you might want to build something else. I'm probably simplifying the play-style a bit. There are complexities to it. But I'm just trying to keep it general. The build plays a lot like a classic meatshield in something like Everquest or World of Warcraft. But the combat system in DDO makes it a lot less boring.

jboat
04-08-2008, 03:24 AM
Thanks for all of the info, it was very helpful. Btw, this is my first MMO.