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JacknCoke
04-02-2008, 03:17 PM
what race makes the best bard? and whats a good plan of action at toon creation as far as distrubiting points out? At every 4 lvls what stat should my extra pont go to.

Thanks.

rimble
04-02-2008, 03:26 PM
.

Dwarf.
16/15/14/8/8/12.
Strength.

JacknCoke
04-02-2008, 03:35 PM
I have never seen a dwarf bard... ever.

Arianrhod
04-02-2008, 03:44 PM
I have never seen a dwarf bard... ever.

Actually, if you're looking for an offensive melee bard, dwarf is an excellent choice. Plenty of hitpoints, bonuses with axes (might have to take a fighter or barb level for proficiency)...the only real downside is low starting cha, but if you're not casting offensive spells (just buffs & heals), the cha isn't very important. If going this route, definitely consider the Warchanter enhancement.

Drow are also a fine choice, especially if you plan to take advantage of their bonuses with shortswords (and rapiers? little hazy on what weapons they get enhancements for). They get a cha bonus at creation, which make it easier to make a bard who can melee without completely abandoning offensive casting. Of course, you have to get to 400 favor with some other character before you can make one.

Human is another common choice. They have the advantages of an extra feat at creation & human versatility/adaptability enhancements, which help them accomplish the many things a bard wants to be able to do.

Aesop
04-02-2008, 03:47 PM
human or drow are typically the caster bards and can be very good with the CC

Aesop

JacknCoke
04-02-2008, 03:51 PM
Drow it is! (better to look at the back of while playing :p) Pluss i love short swords and reipers

do bards get TWF?

Aesop
04-02-2008, 05:13 PM
Drow it is! (better to look at the back of while playing :p) Pluss i love short swords and reipers

do bards get TWF?

only if they meet the prerequisities and take the feats

Aesop

Arianrhod
04-02-2008, 06:04 PM
only if they meet the prerequisities and take the feats

Aesop

I believe the TWF feats are Two-weapon fighting (prereq: base 15 dex), Improved TWF (prereq: base 17 dex), and Greater TWF (prereq: base 19 dex). There's also Oversized TWF, but that shouldn't be necessary for a drow using a shortsword in the offhand. Note the base dex prerequisite only counts natural dex (+ points added at level 4/8/12/16, and any tomes, I believe), not points from enhancements or items. Would probably want to start with a dex of 16 or so if you wanted a TWF drow bard.

wolfy42
04-02-2008, 06:07 PM
Dwarf bards are the best melee/buff based bards in my opinion.

Drow bards are good all around bards or pure caster bards in my opinion due to the great boosts to stats. The bonus to int also effectivly makes drow bards have the same bonus humans do to skill points per level.

Human bards get half the cha bonus a drow bard starts off with (+1 to cha from human versatility) and gets +1 skill point per level. Used to be humans were great for bard/rogue combos but I don't think they are anymore. The extra feat is nice, but if you have drow available I don't really see what advantage you get from being human bard at this point.

Early on the easist bard to play BY FAR is a melee based bard. That would be a dwarven bard with a 17 or 18 strength to start.

I believe on my character I had the following stats:

Str 17 (13 points)
Dex 14 (6 points)
Con 14 (4 points)
Int 08 (0 points)
wis 08 (0 points)
Cha 11 (5 points)

This really works out great since you can easily get a +1 strength item at lvl 1 (tons on the auction or you can randomly get them from quests. At lvl 1 they come in bracers, gloves, trinkets.

I went with 2 fighter levels to get +1 to strength and more weapon choices and armor choices. Your bard can cast some spells in plate armor and some like healing only in light armor or less (I just use my acid resist robes to switch into before casting any spells that can fail, then switch back to the platemail afterwards).

Hp are a big deal for a bard as you don't get that many compared to other characters who will be in melee range alot. Dwarves get a boost to your toughness feat that helps that problem alot (Taking 2 lvls of fighter gets you another bonus 5 hp as well for 1 ap point).


Drow bards can go pure or Rogue 2 (might as well get evasion)/bard 14. It's a good idea to aim for higher int on a rogue/bard combo and concentrate on cha more for spell casting DCs. Stats for the drow should be something like this (especially if you go with TWF).

Str 10 (02)
Dex 16 (06)
Con 12 (06)
Int 14 (04)
Wis 08 (00)
Cha 17 (08)

1 point to dex from rogue lvl 1 will qualify you for ITWF so your set there. Con is as high as you can get without spending to many points. Int is high enough to keep your rogue skills up along with UMD and perform. Cha while not as high as you would like is good enough to get by with hitting 18 at lvl 2 bard (from enhancement). At lvl 4 you need only a +1 cha item to have a 20 cha and by lvl 8 you can have eagles splendor going constantly for a 24 base cha.

Anyway hope this helps a bit:)

Mad_Bombardier
04-03-2008, 10:04 AM
I have never seen a dwarf bard... ever./raises hand. The only thing a Bard needs maxed CHA for is CC casting. And that's not a focus for my build.

TommyBoy
04-03-2008, 10:12 AM
Human bards get half the cha bonus a drow bard starts off with (+1 to cha from human versatility) and gets +1 skill point per level.

How is +6 half of +8?

OP it all depends on what you want to do with your bard. I had a drow one and hated it. Then made a Human haggel bard and he is better at eveything then my drow was. I've played healer, cc, tank, off tank, and dd caster(though not well using wands for dd) with him. He's a bit do all. all bards get access to rapiers and short swords. I prefer Long swords though. If you looking to do melee all the time and want the weapon bonus then take a drawf instead of the drow because the ax bonus will allow you to do more damage the S sword/ Rapier bonus of the drow. if your going to spell cast all the time take drow. if your going to do both and what to do basiclly everything else go human. my 2cp

Westerner
04-03-2008, 10:12 AM
First figure out what you want your bard to do... melee, buff, healing, CC. Then pick a race.

I'm a dorfchanter Bardbarian. Deal with it. :)