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View Full Version : Black Abbot raid completion with full length video



kumhon
03-31-2008, 02:30 AM
Stop saying black abbot is unbeatable. See this, and try it later. Be thankful =)

Chasm Room solving:
http://circle.zoome.jp/DDO/media/37/

Abbot beating + Asteroid puzzle
http://circle.zoome.jp/DDO/media/46/

Nevthial
03-31-2008, 03:08 AM
I had once said I wouldn't attempt the Abbot's raid until my Wiz was 17th level. However, the past couple of months running about the Orchard has me convinced to try it earlier. Congrats on the victory.

**EDIT* Bah, didn't watch the vids at the time, so I must now take back my congratulations. Sorry. **

totmacher
03-31-2008, 03:21 AM
this is old, a repost of it being beat on the japanese server, which was actually before the last round of changes (which should have made it easier)

Angelus_dead
03-31-2008, 03:28 AM
Stop saying black abbot is unbeatable. See this, and try it later. Be thankful =)
Providing instructions to exploit the game is a violation of the rules of this forum.

Vhlad
03-31-2008, 03:30 AM
Providing instructions to exploit the game is a violation of the rules of this forum.

How do you know that's not the intended way to run it? They're not disconnecting or doing anything to bug mobs out.

Torosar
03-31-2008, 03:34 AM
Stop saying black abbot is unbeatable. See this, and try it later. Be thankful =)

Chasm Room solving:
http://circle.zoome.jp/DDO/media/37/

Abbot beating + Asteroid puzzle
http://circle.zoome.jp/DDO/media/46/

Just about all those who regularly post on the forums in regards to the abbot have seen videos similar to this and are well aware of these techniques for the puzzles. Those who say the black abbot is unbeatable base their position that without the very technique showed in this video for the asteroid puzzle (among a couple others as well) the abbot is indeed unbeatable. There are those who view those techniques as exploits (which should be everyone) and want nothing to do with them because they want to win the quest fair and square, and winning the quest fair and square is currently not possible - hence the abbot being unbeatable. Thankfully, Eladrin and co. are working to change this and hopefully we see the abbot falling regularly come Mod 7.

kumhon
03-31-2008, 04:57 AM
Just about all those who regularly post on the forums in regards to the abbot have seen videos similar to this and are well aware of these techniques for the puzzles. Those who say the black abbot is unbeatable base their position that without the very technique showed in this video for the asteroid puzzle (among a couple others as well) the abbot is indeed unbeatable. There are those who view those techniques as exploits (which should be everyone) and want nothing to do with them because they want to win the quest fair and square, and winning the quest fair and square is currently not possible - hence the abbot being unbeatable. Thankfully, Eladrin and co. are working to change this and hopefully we see the abbot falling regularly come Mod 7.


Why do you think that is an exploit? I don't see anything wrong with the technique being summoning monsters to block you from dropping. It is one of the technique to beat puzzle. A good puzzle shouldnt be a puzzle that only consists of only 1 solution. What is wrong with objects with collision detection? it is perfectly fine, and logic to do that.who are you to say it is an exploit, and why do you think everyone should thinnk that is an exploit? You wouldn't know if you are not the developer. How do u know if the developer wanted to have the players do like this? And yes, Eladrin did mention that there are too many meteors that comes down from the sky that is needed to be fixed, but did he says it can't be played?

Ok, so someone said it is old. What's wrong with old stuff being repost again if it is good? and show me the link to that old video that you are talking about. See how old is that post. Do you actaully expect everyone to search the whole forum for a video without knowing even a video link is exist? If you think it is old, safe it. If you think it is bad, say it out loud. I post this because I think it is good for everyone and wants to share with you guys.

whoever that says the asteroid way is an exploit, tell me why it is an exploit. Thanks.

Vhlad
03-31-2008, 05:06 AM
If I was playing tabletop pnp and magic rocks were flying toward me sideways and from above, where all the magic rocks could do was push me, then I would try to find a way to anchor myself. If I could summon an army of dense earth elementals or undead to surround me and brace up against (or cower under), then I would do so!

And the DM would think: gee, that's clever!

If the DM then wanted to smite me, he'd make the rocks deal damage and destroy my summons.

(we're talking about a quest where the big bad guy teleports us to rooms that gives us items to enable us to defeat him. Like, why not just teleport us to the inside of a volcano or to the bottom of the ocean if he could do that and be done with it! Although I may be missing some of the lore but I dunno. It's like the titan, where this giant construct is housed in a room specifically designed to destroy him, with no foreseeable exit to the chamber, and he's too dumb to move out of the way of the giant crystal laser. How are we supposed to guess what's intended or what's an exploit? Some things are obvious like causing something to bug or disconnecting is definitely an exploit, but using summoned monsters as shields? What about shield blocking at a door with a caster firewalling safely from behind? At what point does cheese or tactics become a punishable offense? Games like Diablo had communication. It was pretty cut and dry. If you use maphack or dupe or use bots then you get banned. They told us what not to do! Based on the communication from DDO, there's only a few things that I know for sure we can't do: no duping, no circumventing raid timers, no spamming/harassing, no using bots, and other stuff from the EULA/ToS/code of conduct).



5. While playing the game or participating in the Game, you may not exhibit or partake in behavior that is disruptive to the game's normal playability, causes grief or alarm to other players, or degrades the service performance or other players' client software (for example, deliberately using game bugs or loopholes to disrupt the game or dropping excessive items or summoning excessive portals).
18. You will not exploit, distribute or publicly communicate any game error, miscue or bug which gives an unintended advantage within the Game world.


Not everyone can correctly guess what is intended.
shield or body blocking is a bug of the AI and will be fixed when they update it (monsters will just swap aggro if their target cannot be reached). But what about:
is having 1 person damage titan to take his aggro and position him intended, or is that exploiting bad AI and violation of code of conduct?
is having 2 groups fire spells at the queen so that her aggro switches back and forth and she doesnt head toward anyone intended, or exploiting bad AI and violation of code of conduct?
are monster ghosts in the shroud supposed to be held by the magic of certain trees?
are people supposed to be able to lockpick the levers in shroud part 3?
are people supposed to be able to sleetstorm the pit fiend away from the centre so the blades dont hit them?
are people supposed to be able to fly up above the reaver and hit him from above while he stands there unable to retaliate?
are air elementals bugged, and if so is charming 1 of them to rampage through a quest and knock all the other monsters down exploiting?
If walking up the mushroom path in devils is not an exploit, what about jumping through the stalactites? Or fighting the boss monsters 1 at a time?
How about rezing people down tunnles in the titan pre-raid, or having a caster heal you along the way while you're carrying gears through wrong tunnels?

If that stuff is exploiting, then the devs should ban the entire server. If they spent a day pugging they would see all of that.

kumhon
03-31-2008, 07:16 AM
If I was playing tabletop pnp and magic rocks were flying toward me sideways and from above, where all the magic rocks could do was push me, then I would try to find a way to anchor myself. If I could summon an army of dense earth elementals or undead to surround me and brace up against (or cower under), then I would do so!

And the DM would think: gee, that's clever!

If the DM then wanted to smite me, he'd make the rocks deal damage and destroy my summons.

(we're talking about a quest where the big bad guy teleports us to rooms that gives us items to enable us to defeat him. Like, why not just teleport us to the inside of a volcano or to the bottom of the ocean if he could do that and be done with it! Although I may be missing some of the lore but I dunno. It's like the titan, where this giant construct is housed in a room specifically designed to destroy him, with no foreseeable exit to the chamber, and he's too dumb to move out of the way of the giant crystal laser. How are we supposed to guess what's intended or what's an exploit? Some things are obvious like causing something to bug or disconnecting is definitely an exploit, but using summoned monsters as shields? What about shield blocking at a door with a caster firewalling safely from behind? At what point does cheese or tactics become a punishable offense? Games like Diablo had communication. It was pretty cut and dry. If you use maphack or dupe or use bots then you get banned. They told us what not to do! Based on the communication from DDO, there's only a few things that I know for sure we can't do: no duping, no circumventing raid timers, no spamming/harassing, no using bots, and other stuff from the EULA/ToS/code of conduct).



Not everyone can correctly guess what is intended.
shield or body blocking is a bug of the AI and will be fixed when they update it (monsters will just swap aggro if their target cannot be reached). But what about:
is having 1 person damage titan to take his aggro and position him intended, or is that exploiting bad AI and violation of code of conduct?
is having 2 groups fire spells at the queen so that her aggro switches back and forth and she doesnt head toward anyone intended, or exploiting bad AI and violation of code of conduct?
are monster ghosts in the shroud supposed to be held by the magic of certain trees?
are people supposed to be able to lockpick the levers in shroud part 3?
are people supposed to be able to sleetstorm the pit fiend away from the centre so the blades dont hit them?
are people supposed to be able to fly up above the reaver and hit him from above while he stands there unable to retaliate?
are air elementals bugged, and if so is charming 1 of them to rampage through a quest and knock all the other monsters down exploiting?
If walking up the mushroom path in devils is not an exploit, what about jumping through the stalactites? Or fighting the boss monsters 1 at a time?
How about rezing people down tunnles in the titan pre-raid, or having a caster heal you along the way while you're carrying gears through wrong tunnels?

If that stuff is exploiting, then the devs should ban the entire server. If they spent a day pugging they would see all of that.


Well said.

DolfaTrueheart
03-31-2008, 11:38 AM
If I was playing tabletop pnp and magic rocks were flying toward me sideways and from above, where all the magic rocks could do was push me, then I would try to find a way to anchor myself. If I could summon an army of dense earth elementals or undead to surround me and brace up against (or cower under), then I would do so!

And the DM would think: gee, that's clever!

If the DM then wanted to smite me, he'd make the rocks deal damage and destroy my summons.

(we're talking about a quest where the big bad guy teleports us to rooms that gives us items to enable us to defeat him. Like, why not just teleport us to the inside of a volcano or to the bottom of the ocean if he could do that and be done with it! Although I may be missing some of the lore but I dunno. It's like the titan, where this giant construct is housed in a room specifically designed to destroy him, with no foreseeable exit to the chamber, and he's too dumb to move out of the way of the giant crystal laser. How are we supposed to guess what's intended or what's an exploit? Some things are obvious like causing something to bug or disconnecting is definitely an exploit, but using summoned monsters as shields? What about shield blocking at a door with a caster firewalling safely from behind? At what point does cheese or tactics become a punishable offense? Games like Diablo had communication. It was pretty cut and dry. If you use maphack or dupe or use bots then you get banned. They told us what not to do! Based on the communication from DDO, there's only a few things that I know for sure we can't do: no duping, no circumventing raid timers, no spamming/harassing, no using bots, and other stuff from the EULA/ToS/code of conduct).



Not everyone can correctly guess what is intended.
shield or body blocking is a bug of the AI and will be fixed when they update it (monsters will just swap aggro if their target cannot be reached). But what about:
is having 1 person damage titan to take his aggro and position him intended, or is that exploiting bad AI and violation of code of conduct?
is having 2 groups fire spells at the queen so that her aggro switches back and forth and she doesnt head toward anyone intended, or exploiting bad AI and violation of code of conduct?
are monster ghosts in the shroud supposed to be held by the magic of certain trees?
are people supposed to be able to lockpick the levers in shroud part 3?
are people supposed to be able to sleetstorm the pit fiend away from the centre so the blades dont hit them?
are people supposed to be able to fly up above the reaver and hit him from above while he stands there unable to retaliate?
are air elementals bugged, and if so is charming 1 of them to rampage through a quest and knock all the other monsters down exploiting?
If walking up the mushroom path in devils is not an exploit, what about jumping through the stalactites? Or fighting the boss monsters 1 at a time?
How about rezing people down tunnles in the titan pre-raid, or having a caster heal you along the way while you're carrying gears through wrong tunnels?

If that stuff is exploiting, then the devs should ban the entire server. If they spent a day pugging they would see all of that.

Vhlad the voice of reason! =) hehe

Garth_of_Sarlona
03-31-2008, 12:22 PM
In my view, anything that could accurately happen in a PnP game or 'real life' can't be considered an exploit.

Using ghouls to block yourself in is true to 'real life' and physics and therefore I would not consider this an exploit. But - really the asteriods should knock the ghouls off the platform...

Garth

p.s. Also - this is an old video, and in addition, it should also probably be in the Achievements section not the user guide section.

Talon_Moonshadow
03-31-2008, 12:50 PM
Stop saying black abbot is unbeatable. See this, and try it later. Be thankful =)

Chasm Room solving:
http://circle.zoome.jp/DDO/media/37/

Abbot beating + Asteroid puzzle
http://circle.zoome.jp/DDO/media/46/

You tried to recruit me this past weekend to practice.

I need to do LOTD first......but otherwise would love to.
I don't understand why people give up so easliy......

Talonkage.

Torosar
03-31-2008, 06:35 PM
whoever that says the asteroid way is an exploit, tell me why it is an exploit. Thanks.

Would you agree that an exploit more or less constitutes doing something that allows you to greatly advantage your own position through the removal of risk of your chances of losing through an unintended method? Look at the situation here, you and a buddy get teleported to a little platform and each can pick up 50 boulders and need to use them to destroy incoming asteroids or be knocked off the platform, thus losing. There is nothing else on the platform and given this, it is reasonable to assume that the intended way of attempting the puzzle is to use what they have given you to destory the asteroids, also is important to note nothing else can do can hurt the asteroids. Just like when you fight a monster, he has a chance to hurt you and do damage, and ultimately defeat you. This puzzle is no different. The asteroids have the exact same chance a monster does. Just like the monster can kill you if you dont kill him faster, the asteroid can kill you (by knocking you off) if you are not fast enough to kill (by shooting) it. There is always a risk when you attack something to defeat it, that it can attack you back and try to defeat you.

This situation varies from that described above which is the obvious intention (the opposition having a chance to win), but i know you'll probably come and say something like "yes but us the players often think of ways to defeat things that are better than the obvious intended way of doing it". While this does have truth in it, that does not mean that those methods conceived are always justified and they can be so unintended that may be deemed as inappropriate or as an exploit. The problem with what is happening on the asteroid puzzle is that not only are no boulders being thrown (which is an obvious sign that the method deviates quite substantially from the intended path) but the chance of the puzzle being able to defeat you is significantly reduced, almost to the point of 0 (if not 0). Is this not any different to bugging a monster out so he cannot attack you at all and you can just beat him in total safety and then take his loot when he never got a chance to defend it? Would that not be an exploit or at least unintended?

What you need to see is that this position is something that is based off many previous examples. This goes right back to the old days when there was a ledge above Lord Helos in stormcleave and the party could range him in total safety from taking any damage, again a removal of the chance for the mob to defeat you. What happened to that ledge? It was removed. Look at more recent examples, what about when Queen Lailat had trouble reaching people and couldn't attack them standing in certain places but players had no trouble reaching her with their attack, removing the risk - the chance for the mob to defend itself. Did this get fixed? Yep it sure did! What about when players had the ability to bypass fighting monsters in the Abbot pre raid, and you could loot the end chest continuously without having to fight any monsters who could defeat the players and stop them looting? Again, not intended and fixed. What about phase 2 of the shroud where players were able to win that phase without fighting a single one of the 4 red named bosses? If these were intended and not exploits or at least unintended methods.. why did they get fixed?

Ok so the asteroid puzzle doesn't necessarily win the quest but neither did ranging Helos, nor did breaking the crystal in the shroud before the mobs activated. The problem is that you are winning without giving the opposition its chance to defend itself from you and that's what is unintended and is why people deem it an exploit.

Obviously there is line that makes it hard for people to know what is intended and what is unintended. Personally, i think it's safe to assume that when something does not have a fair chance or its intended chance to defend itself from you than it is likely to be unintended. I also believe that using the fact that the line makes it hard for people to know what is intended vs unintended as the basis for your arguement to justify what you are doing means you are well aware that what you are doing is perhaps even the slightest bit unintended, because if you didn't you wouldn't feel the need to justify it.

You wanted someone who says it's an exploit to explain why its an exploit to you? There you go. If you still honestly believe it is intended than there is nothing I (or anyone else) will say to convince you otherwise and its likely to be vice versa in respects to those who think it is unintended somehow deciding they were wrong and that it is now okay to use this method in the asteroid puzzle. You wanted an explanation and i provided it.

Turial
03-31-2008, 06:56 PM
I consider it an exploit because the nature of the summons have to be changed to make it work. If you could just summon mobs and they would help then it would simply be clever.

Pellegro
03-31-2008, 07:01 PM
I agree with those who say it is not an exploit.

Torosar
03-31-2008, 07:25 PM
In my view, anything that could accurately happen in a PnP game or 'real life' can't be considered an exploit.

Using ghouls to block yourself in is true to 'real life' and physics and therefore I would not consider this an exploit. But - really the asteriods should knock the ghouls off the platform...


Yes well not only that in real life if you were standing on top of something similar to the platform in the puzzle, say a silo with a bunch of friends and an asteroid fell from the sky and hit you, having your friends standing in front of you (to help shield you) or behind you (to stop you falling off) wouldn't save your life.

Angelus_dead
03-31-2008, 07:28 PM
I need to do LOTD first......but otherwise would love to.
I don't understand why people give up so easliy......
They're not giving up "easily". You don't have any idea the kind of difficulty it has.

Flagging for the Abbot takes maybe 4 hours, and help from 3-4 other players (usually less). If you can't handle getting 4 players to help you for 4 nonsequential hours, you're not even in the same league as people who practice with 6 players for 40 hours straight just to get started.

Angelus_dead
03-31-2008, 07:30 PM
Yes well not only that in real life if you were standing on top of something similar to the platform in the puzzle, say a silo with a bunch of friends and an asteroid fell from the sky and hit you, having your friends standing in front of you (to help shield you) or behind you (to stop you falling off) wouldn't save your life.
More importantly, once you hit the point where the DM narration has said "An asteroid slams into your body, plunging you to your death", to be still alive is clearly not intended.

And after the 20th or 30th repetition of "plunging you to your death" then it becomes especially clear that the player character is supposed to be dead by now, or at least plunged somewhere, and his avoidance of that is cheating.

Vhlad
03-31-2008, 07:40 PM
More importantly, once you hit the point where the DM narration has said "An asteroid slams into your body, plunging you to your death", to be still alive is clearly not intended.

And after the 20th or 30th repetition of "plunging you to your death" then it becomes especially clear that the player character is supposed to be dead by now, or at least plunged somewhere, and his avoidance of that is cheating.

You can stand there and be hit, without summons, and not fall off, multiple times. Is that cheating too then? I just assumed the DM narration was foobar, similar to how it's foobar in so many other quests (i.e. you must free arlos!)

kumhon
04-01-2008, 01:42 AM
I assume that is bad AI made. I think you missed 1 thing here, the monster actually bug in Shroud part II, how are you gonna to explain this?If that is a bug, and expoit, how many are abusing it now? If compared to abbot. Ok you may say Shroud part II bugging the red named at each corner is neither a bug nor exploit, it is programmed to behave like that. I can also says that the Asteroid puzzle is also programmed to behave like that too. Like I said, YOU wouldn't know if you are not the developer. So now, if you can't say whether it is an exploit or not, what is the reason/intention you making your point here in my post saying that,this is an exploit? Does it brings benefit to the public? Personally I can't think of any reason for that you are judging it is an exploit except that you simply want to critic something. When you Critic something which doesn't bring any benefit to others, you are just wasting your time, and others' time. Like I said, I'm here to share something I think it is good, useful to some others that appreciate it, as for those who doesn't appreciate it, you do not have to post something like this :"exploit!" in my post to discourage people, do you? Please think of why would you do that before you put in any action/effort in 1 thing.

Torosar
04-01-2008, 05:32 AM
You can stand there and be hit, without summons, and not fall off, multiple times. Is that cheating too then? I just assumed the DM narration was foobar, similar to how it's foobar in so many other quests (i.e. you must free arlos!)

Yes you can because how far the asteroid knocks you doesn't always hit you far enough so you go off if it hits you across the platform if you are standing on one side, though after a couple more hits its more than likely (if not certain) that you'll be plunging down to your doom. As Angelus said, clearly by the 30th time something is a bit wrong...

Shade
04-01-2008, 09:26 AM
whoever that says the asteroid way is an exploit, tell me why it is an exploit. Thanks.

Everytime an asteroid strikes the platform - the DM says - the astroid strikes your body, knocking you to your death!

Now If I was the quest designer - I certainly would not make the dm say that if that sposed to happen 50+ times.. Pretty duh this is an exploit, doesn't require much logic to see that.

The other exploit is less clear as an exploit, but also is one - where they purposely use the ice wands to convince the abbot to create an encasement in the water - then make no attempt to destroy it, but instead use it as a platform to hide on.

Also notable as an exploit since Elarin posted that him casting encasements outside the platform was probably a bug.

The quest designer put in the rocks intending you to use them to destroy the encasements - not just for looks. And the encasements - to encase you, not save you from the inferno.

Shade
04-01-2008, 09:29 AM
Couple questions about this video tho:

Previously the encasement would turn you to stone whenever you got even close to it, so what happened in that video wasn't possible, in a way that is easier I guess. They aren't all using FoM boots tho to make that possible right?

It never really shows how they deal with phase wraiths, yet dont seem to have trouble with them.. Why is that? Did the wizard get the phase googles and just take them all out with firewall quick?

Seposedly its on elite, yet the phase puzzle doesn't seem harder and there are still no mummies from people dying.. Not so sure about that.. It really on elite?

heh watching this video reminding me that was a fun fight back when you could do it without having to pull off stupid exploitts to get to the actaul fight part.. Shame it has come to this.

Shade
04-01-2008, 09:32 AM
btw it doesn't look like the same video that was posted months ago.

Looks more recent. Altho it is the same group - they seem to be more organized and all sporting allot of abbot raid gear (look at all the silver flame robes and abbot bows being used heh) so clearly they have beated it quite a few times now.

Angelus_dead
04-05-2008, 04:54 AM
Previously the encasement would turn you to stone whenever you got even close to it, so what happened in that video wasn't possible, in a way that is easier I guess. They aren't all using FoM boots tho to make that possible right?
Encasement has not made you stone for quite a long time. It was changed so that the rock only affects the character specifically targeted.


It never really shows how they deal with phase wraiths, yet dont seem to have trouble with them.. Why is that? Did the wizard get the phase googles and just take them all out with firewall quick?
My understanding is that the guy with phase-wraith aggro is standing on top of an encasement rock, and the wraiths can't get to him. (Maybe he used the goggles to hit them all and pull aggro?) But it's also possible that whichever player has the goggles simply killed them.

Nevthial
04-05-2008, 05:22 AM
Since this thread is still open, does that mean what they did is legit? Angelus? Shade? Anyone? The DM dialogue is what has me wondering as well.

Angelus_dead
04-05-2008, 05:30 AM
Since this thread is still open, does that mean what they did is legit? Angelus? Shade? Anyone? The DM dialogue is what has me wondering as well.
No, it means the devs aren't eager to punish players for using an exploit that was forced on them by the quest being massively broken. And that is the correct reaction- the problem is Turbine's fault, not these players. If anyone should be punished, it is the devs who
1. Released a broken raid
2. Made it a lot lot more broken.
3. Instead of fixing the mod 5 raid, went and released mod 6.
4. Instead of fixing the mod 5 raid, went and worked on mod 7.

It also means the forum admins aren't eager to admit that the only way this raid has be beaten is by exploiting, because that would mean revealing that it's their fault for publishing a broken raid. They'd rather cloak the eventual fixes as "Retuning to adjust difficulty in response to gameplay feedback", instead of honestly saying "Sorry guys, instead of learning our lesson from the Warforged Titan fiasco, we majorly screwed up again"

Shade
04-05-2008, 06:50 AM
My understanding is that the guy with phase-wraith aggro is standing on top of an encasement rock, and the wraiths can't get to him. (Maybe he used the goggles to hit them all and pull aggro?) But it's also possible that whichever player has the goggles simply killed them.

Hmm don't believe that was possible back when we did it, they had a very long to-hit range. Also the abbot will continously respawn the phase wraiths over and over, so killing them once is not the solution.. Unless that was changed as well.

The other major problem with them is that they drain your spell points every single time then hit you, and allot too 70-150+. It had a save, but was a high fort save that fully dispelled casters aren't likely to make - since the phase wraith additionaly auto dispell all your buffs.. They were extremely difficult and a major annoyance even on normal. However getting agro was possible for melee, they just have to swing at the air until it connects - in the combat log it says you hit them for 0 dmg and you get agro.

Perhaps the guy who got hte phase googles was also the guy who had all the firewalls going so that would of delt with them quickly - certainly requires some great luck to have the right guy ported tho.

Whulffer
04-05-2008, 01:24 PM
The Abbott is beatable, i go in with pug groups and come very close with ppl I don't know well. all the time. It's not unbeatable, it's challenging.. thats it. Perhaps thats why it's not getting beat? It' been beatable for months and months. Recently I havnt had any lag problems or any complains about this puzzles, minus the goggles when you recall. I dont care how many times the gm tells me about asteroids, turn him off then.

Myself, I beat the abbot witthe the guild way back when, I'd like some of that Abbot action again an get me some hot litany of the dead baby! :p

Beherit_Baphomar
04-05-2008, 01:31 PM
The Abbott is beatable, i go in with pug groups and come very close with ppl I don't know well.

? Its beatable, yet you havent beaten it? Interesting...

And, once again, its not unbeatable, it is unplayable.

Shade
04-06-2008, 12:04 AM
it's challenging.. .

Getting lucky and having one of the 12 guys that has created undead scrolls on him get ported to the asteroids puzzle and clicking on create ghoul over and over is challenging?
Watching your teamate die - which causes the entire raid to fail simply because you lagged for 0.5 seconds while guiding him in the phase puzzle is challenging?
Watching your ice bolt fly up into the sky for despite perfectly aiming it is challenging?

The abbot puzzles are downright unplayable and not fun, not challenging in any sense of the word.

The only challenge is to live near enough the DDO game servers so your ping is low enough to beat the stupid phase puzzle.. Sorry but thats a challenge i can't beat. Raids shouldn't require the players to move into turbines office to beat them due to latentcy. Thats where the japanese have the edge, because japan is a small island with excellent internet infrastructure, every playe could easily have a sub 50 ping.. In the US/Canada most players can't even dream of such a ping unless they live very near the servers.