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artvan_delet
03-26-2008, 01:28 PM
I hope a level 4 paladin spell is in the works for Mod 7, because I don't see one currently that's worth much of anything for high level paladins.

Holy Sword- No good in Mod 6. (And he reavers/renders/DQ from previous mods you'd want cold iron for are fairly easy to kill for high level toons). Much rather have an easily crafted great commander green steel weapon with more base damage, holy and pure good burst, that doesn't take components for.

Death Ward- there are clickies for this, and cleric mass DW carried by almost all clerics now. This spell is OK, that's about it.

Neutralize Poison- clickies
Break Enchantment- average
CSW- fair to average.

My point is that these spells are blah. Adding a good level 4 spell would be an improvement. Nothing new here, just wanted to point out again an area for improvement.

(When you get back to rangers, and I don't play one so forgive me, but freedom seems to be their best spell, and that's not all that uber either.) Thanks.

Cedrica-the-Bard
03-26-2008, 01:42 PM
Rangers get both Resist Energy and Protection from Energy. Casters get both as well. Why do Pallies only get Resist and not Protection? Is it a 5th level spell for them or something? I imagine in PnP they must not get it either, I'm just wondering if there is some logical rationale for that.

jjflanigan
03-26-2008, 01:45 PM
Rangers get both Resist Energy and Protection from Energy. Casters get both as well. Why do Pallies only get Resist and not Protection? Is it a 5th level spell for them or something? I imagine in PnP they must not get it either, I'm just wondering if there is some logical rationale for that.

It's just how it is in PnP -

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spellLists/paladinSpells.htm

Cedrica-the-Bard
03-26-2008, 01:47 PM
It's just how it is in PnP -

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spellLists/paladinSpells.htm

Yeah, I figured as much, I just don't understand it is all. :)

jjflanigan
03-26-2008, 01:49 PM
Yeah, I figured as much, I just don't understand it is all. :)

I still don't understand it either, was just clarifying about whether it was a DDO'ism or a D&D'ism :)

MysticTheurge
03-26-2008, 01:50 PM
4th-level Paladin Spells
Blessing of the Righteous: You and your allies weapons deal an additional 1d6 points of holy damage and are considered good aligned.
Castigate: Verbal rebuke damages those whose alignment differs from yours.
Draconic Might: Gain +4 enhancement bonus to strength, constitution and charisma, +4 enhancement bonus to natural armor and immunity to sleep and paralysis.
Fracturing Weapon: For 1 round/level the target's attacks bestow a -5 penalty to AC and DR for 6 seconds. [Multiple strikes don't stack.]
Manifest Life: Your touch attack draws a ball of positive energy out of the living target dealing 1d6 points of damage/2 levels. The ball is then either used to harm nearby undead, used to heal nearby living allies or released as a Turn Undead attempt, resulting in nearby undead either fleeing or being destroyed.
Righteous Aura: You gain a +4 sacred bonus to charisma and detonate on death, healing good creatures and damaging others (2d6/level damage).
Lesser Visage of the Deity: You gain +4 enhancement bonus to Charisma and resistance 10 to acid, cold and electricity.


Those are a few 4th level paladin spells from Spell Compendium and other sources that might be worth adding.

SidBadguy
03-26-2008, 01:56 PM
Those are a few 4th level paladin spells from Spell Compendium and other sources that might be worth adding.


Ohhh I want to explode with healing energy when i die!!!

Talon_Moonshadow
03-26-2008, 02:00 PM
It's just how it is in PnP -

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spellLists/paladinSpells.htm

I've always thought that by the time Pallies can cast these spells they seem weak. It's even more true in DDO.

I think they are good spells......but by the time you get them they seem very very weak.

We need DW @ lvl 8.....not 14 (or whatever).

That Holy Sword is nice, but not compared to the weapons we've had since lvl 10 or so.

Barumar
03-26-2008, 02:16 PM
Those are a few 4th level paladin spells from Spell Compendium and other sources that might be worth adding.

Draconic Might: Gain +4 enhancement bonus to strength, constitution and charisma, +4 enhancement bonus to natural armor and immunity to sleep and paralysis.

This one spell would make me think: "They finally gave my lvl 16 Pally some love"!

And I would try to keep it going just like I do Divine Favor now.

Barumar

Oh, and that blowing up one does sound cool - but my Guildies would want to to die too much...

dameron
03-26-2008, 02:51 PM
Draconic Might: Gain +4 enhancement bonus to strength, constitution and charisma, +4 enhancement bonus to natural armor and immunity to sleep and paralysis.

This one spell would make me think: "They finally gave my lvl 16 Pally some love"!

And I would try to keep it going just like I do Divine Favor now.


Since they're all enhancement bonuses they're pretty worthless by that level in DDO.

Angelus_dead
03-26-2008, 02:58 PM
Since they're all enhancement bonuses they're pretty worthless by that level in DDO.
Right, it would only give +1 AC over a barkskin potion.

However, if they changed the implementation so that the +4 added to bark AC, it could be helpful. And if they used the other version of Draconic Might from earlier books, the stat bonuses were +5, which has a chance of being useful for a paladin, as they could free slots from magic items depending on if your current stats are odd or even (and on if you're willing to accept a few -1s in exchange for free body slots)

Note: the original Draconic Might in Draconomicon gave +5 stats, but for some reason they decided to nerf it to +4 for Spell Compendium. Regardless of the wisdom of that decision in a PnP context, DDO characters have better magic items at the same level, so the spell should give the higher +5 bonuses to be useful in this game. (Follow the same logic that lead to the Holy Sword spell getting a bursting effect)

MysticTheurge
03-26-2008, 03:03 PM
and on if you're willing to accept a few -1s in exchange for free body slots

That part, of course, is still true with +4s.

gpk
03-26-2008, 04:44 PM
What about level 3 spells? Snooze-fest there too.

I can think of 1 level 3 spell and one level 4 spell that both start with "Righteous" that I'd like to see :rolleyes:

DSL
03-26-2008, 07:03 PM
Restoration comes in pretty handy when you have negative levels, and Cure Serious is far from useless. Overall, I think level 3 has a worse selection, and there's plenty of paladin spells that are basically useless at the level they get them. Resistance is a prime example, giving a fixed +1 resistance bonus to saves (I believe the duration is fixed at 1 minute also). The fact is, other than Resist Energy, the vast majority of my paladin's SP end up going into healing spells, which, while usefull, are a little boring.

Do'Urden
03-26-2008, 07:14 PM
I don't care if it's in PnP or not...I WANT A MARTYR SPELL...and make it a good one like it restores all party members to full HP / SP and buffs with +4 stacking attack bonus!!!

:D

captain1z
03-26-2008, 07:48 PM
Those are a few 4th level paladin spells from Spell Compendium and other sources that might be worth adding.

nice spells


I like the blessing of the righteous - would be very helpful in mod 7


and



righteous aura - I can see it now LFM said 4 tanks, 2 rogues, 2 clerics, 2 casters, 2 paladins

group starts to have a hard time and leader says "qiuck I need a paladin to slash death"

Garth_of_Sarlona
03-26-2008, 08:39 PM
When I first read the title of the thread I thought that Paladins had got a new spell called 'Snooze'. I dunno - maybe a DC 20 will save AOE sleep effect?

ok maybe it was just me...

Garth

ahpook
03-26-2008, 09:28 PM
Restoration comes in pretty handy when you have negative levels, and Cure Serious is far from useless. Overall, I think level 3 has a worse selection, and there's plenty of paladin spells that are basically useless at the level they get them. Resistance is a prime example, giving a fixed +1 resistance bonus to saves (I believe the duration is fixed at 1 minute also). The fact is, other than Resist Energy, the vast majority of my paladin's SP end up going into healing spells, which, while usefull, are a little boring.

I like Restoration on the list because it allows me to use them off scrolls. Rarely ever mem it. I have mem'ed Holy Sword more often. Really, I just take Deathward to help out the clerics occaisonally or when we are running without a cleric.

dejafu
03-27-2008, 06:40 PM
Ohhh I want to explode with healing energy when i die!!!

You know, that idea works really, really well for giving raid fights a fascinating new dynamic. Everybody's fighting the pit fiend, the tanks are hanging on by a thread, the clerics are either dead or out of mana, but they're SO CLOSE to bringing him down... It turns what would be just another tank getting sent to the penalty box into a genuinely self-sacrificing, team-saving act, something that's not easy to do in a video game (plus, how cool would it be if that turns out to be just enough damage to kill the named?). Just change the part about how the spell only heals those of good alignment to "only heals team members and allies, damages all non-good opponents."

Talcyndl
03-27-2008, 07:13 PM
You know, that idea works really, really well for giving raid fights a fascinating new dynamic. Everybody's fighting the pit fiend, the tanks are hanging on by a thread, the clerics are either dead or out of mana, but they're SO CLOSE to bringing him down... It turns what would be just another tank getting sent to the penalty box into a genuinely self-sacrificing, team-saving act, something that's not easy to do in a video game (plus, how cool would it be if that turns out to be just enough damage to kill the named?). Just change the part about how the spell only heals those of good alignment to "only heals team members and allies, damages all non-good opponents."

And doesn't work with /death.

Emili
03-27-2008, 07:23 PM
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spellLists/paladinSpells.htm

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spellLists/rangerSpells.htm

OK... in a nutshell. Pally's and Ranger's are not suppose to be heavy spell casters. That just it. In DnD they are lower level spell casters they bring a slight versitility to the party because of it. In DnD proper (the non-spell point variety) the pally gets 3 1st lvl, 3 2nd lvl, 3 3rd lvl and 3 4th lvl spells a day at level 20 and is a level 16 caster. Likewise the ranger follows suit also. The arcane and divine heavy casters also are limited in spell use thus are not as flexible in every situation in DnD pnp as they are in DDO... thus that's where the lower level casting classes come in a tad more handy DnD pnp... we do not have that here in DDO where mana typically flows like water.

The prime purpose of these two classes *Pally and ranger* are they are a flavor of warrior class... a related fighter class if you would but with predetermined environmental or ethical stance for role-play and support of that flavor. They are foremost warroirs not casters in any event - DDO attribution of defining some as more DPS oriented and others more defensive produced the quagmire we have now... while the base abilities of a class well suited them in a particular area - it was not meant for them to excell in that area far beyound the other warrior classes ... in DnD a well offensively feated Pally is very much on par with a well offensively feated ranger, barbarian, even rogue withing a single die roll... it also goes the other way a barbarian can gain as much deffensive ability as the pally, (That are what feats are for - to customize) this is not so much true in DDO.

MysticTheurge
03-27-2008, 07:36 PM
I found another interesting one in Spell Compendium that shouldn't be too hard.

Favor of the Martyr, Paladin 4. 1 min/level, self or ally. Immune to Charm, Compulsion, and "pain" effects (irrelevant in DDO as of now?). Cannot be dazed, exhausted, fatigued, nauseated, sickened, staggered or stunned. Grants the Diehard feat.

Also:

Clear Mind, Paladin 1. 1 min/level, self only. You gain a +4 sacred bonus on saving throws against mind-affecting spells and effects.

Cloak of Bravery, Paladin 2, Cleric 3. 1 min/level, area of effect. Allies gain a morale bonus on saves vs. fear equal to your caster level (max +10).

Hand of Divinity, Paladin 2, Cleric 2. 1 min/level, self or ally. +2 sacred bonus to saving throws.

Lionheart, Paladin 1. 6 second/level, self or ally. Immune to fear.

Righteous Fury, Paladin 3. 1 min/level, self only. You gain 5 temporary hit points per caster level (max 50) and +4 sacred bonus to strength.

Shield of Warding, Paladin 2, Cleric 3. 1 min/level, self or ally. +1 sacred bonus to AC and Reflex saves. +1 per five caster levels (max +5). Must be using a shield.

Silverbeard, Paladin 1. 1 min/level, self only. +2 sacred bonus to AC.

Word of Binding, Paladin 3. 6 second per level, enemy. Target cannot act and moves at one quarter speed. Reflex negates.

Really, there's almost no excuse for not having more Buffs in the game. Half of the ones we already have don't have any real animation. Give something the shiny orange foot glow, and the orange circle if it's AoE, and you're set. Then all you've got to do is make an icon.

MysticTheurge
03-27-2008, 07:38 PM
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spellLists/paladinSpells.htm

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spellLists/rangerSpells.htm

Yeah, but

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/lists/spells&tablefilter=paladin

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/lists/spells&tablefilter=ranger

It's not like there aren't spells out there.

Angelus_dead
03-27-2008, 08:59 PM
I found another interesting one in Spell Compendium that shouldn't be too hard.

Favor of the Martyr, Paladin 4. 1 min/level, self or ally. Immune to Charm, Compulsion, and "pain" effects (irrelevant in DDO as of now?)
DDO includes Wrack and Symbol of Pain. Hopefully once monks are introduced, nongood monks will be allowed to select Flensing Strike.


Cannot be dazed, exhausted, fatigued, nauseated, sickened, staggered or stunned
Note that daze immunity has various exploitive effects in D&D. In DDO, it would render you almost completely immune to Mind Flayers.

Snoggy
03-28-2008, 03:34 AM
Much rather have an easily crafted great commander green steel weapon with more base damage, holy and pure good burst, that doesn't take components for.

What's the difference between components and ingredients?

Snoggy
03-28-2008, 03:38 AM
However, if they changed the implementation so that the +4 added to bark AC, it could be helpful.

That would pretty much break the rules in a bad way. And start this game on the road to becoming Everquest.