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View Full Version : Don't ever splash the third level of Paladin



Yaga_Nub
03-26-2008, 11:27 AM
Because of items that you can get including the super-duper greensteel -/-/- or greensteel +/-/- item, you should never again plan a build with Paladin 3. The +1 AC enhancement, +1 Save enhancement and 1 extra LoH is nice but not worth it. You get Divine Grace at level 2 Paladin and that's the main reason for Paladin levels as of Mod 6.

Discuss amongst yourselves!

sigtrent
03-26-2008, 12:12 PM
I don't get how greensteel enters into that equation. 1 AC is 1 AC and 1 Save is 1 Save. Do they somehow not stack with bonuses from greensteel items?

Certainly paladin 2 is the big benefit but not many classes will get anything especialy exciting with that extra 1 level that is much better than the paladin 3 enhancements if you are making a defensive character.

Mad_Bombardier
03-26-2008, 12:57 PM
And here I was, thinking that 3Paladin was for Divine Healh (Fear and Disease Immunity). ;)

rimble
03-26-2008, 01:04 PM
And here I was, thinking that 3Paladin was for Divine Healh (Fear and Disease Immunity). ;)

He's saying you can get Fear/Disease/Poison/Blindness Immunity and Deathblock all on one Greensteel item, thus trivializing the value of splashing to Paladin level 3. I agree that such an item does lessen the value of splashing to Paladin level 3, but "don't ever splash to Paladin 3" is a trollishly broad statement to make.

Aspenor
03-26-2008, 01:08 PM
Hey Yaga, what if I don't feel like collecting the ingredients and wasting an item slot on an item espressly built for immunities? ;)

Mad_Bombardier
03-26-2008, 01:09 PM
Sure, if you don't mind waiting until L16 and farming the Shroud, you sure can. For those that want the immunities as early as L3, there is Paladin3. :)

Aspenor
03-26-2008, 01:10 PM
Sure, if you don't mind waiting until L16 and farming the Shroud, you sure can. For those that want the immunities as early as L3, there is Paladin3. :)

Or maybe when you're farming the shroud you have your sights set on more useful items than a crappy immunity item :eek:

Yaga_Nub
03-26-2008, 01:19 PM
Hey Yaga, what if I don't feel like collecting the ingredients and wasting an item slot on an item espressly built for immunities? ;)


Or maybe when you're farming the shroud you have your sights set on more useful items than a crappy immunity item :eek:

Well since we know that the cleansing stones are out there (the pic was posted) then I consider this a highly useful item to have. Besides build an item for 5 immunities or spend a level for a couple of immunities both have an intrinsic cost just depends of which you want to pay.

I will say that this is coming from someone that splashed 3 levels of paladin on 2 different characters and for one of them the +1 AC and +1 Saves doesn't really matter much. He already only fails a fort or reflex save on a 1 (unless level 14 or higher elite quest traps) and most will saves it's a 3 or lower to affect him. Sure without the +1 Saves enhancement the will save would become a 4 or lower but the fort and the reflex would stay a 1. At 53 AC with the +1 AC enhancement, he still gets his arse handed to him by a lot of critters out in the world so I don't think making it a 52 would mean much.

But keep up the conversation because that's why I created it so I could get feedback about this idea.

Impaqt
03-26-2008, 01:27 PM
Natrual/Granted Immunites/Enhancments >>>>> Item based Immunites/Enhancments

Might as well say Dont Play a WF because you can Emulate al those Immunities with Items/Spells as well.

L3 Paly also Gives you +1 Reflex and Will Base

rimble
03-26-2008, 01:41 PM
Natrual/Granted Immunites/Enhancments >>>>> Item based Immunites/Enhancments

Might as well say Dont Play a WF because you can Emulate al those Immunities with Items/Spells as well.

L3 Paly also Gives you +1 Reflex and Will Base

And although it may not matter to most, one step closer to level 4 Paladin which gives access to Metamagic Feats, useful for, say, your Dragonmarks, if that's your thing. Still can't decide if I want to do that, so Level 3 Paladin is a nice indecisive place to sit for now, hehe.

Beherit_Baphomar
03-26-2008, 01:47 PM
trollishly broad.

Yaga, in its simplest form.

Yaga_Nub
03-26-2008, 02:16 PM
...is a trollishly broad statement to make.

No, it's a discussion point. If you want to see trollishly broad, then at a look at Beherit's butt. ;)


Yaga, in its simplest form.

I think that point goes to me B. As usual, you're outclassed by my insidiously simple arse jokes. Don't make me beat you down any further by switching to the "your mom" jokes.

Yaga_Nub
03-26-2008, 02:21 PM
Natrual/Granted Immunites/Enhancments >>>>> Item based Immunites/Enhancments

Might as well say Dont Play a WF because you can Emulate al those Immunities with Items/Spells as well.

L3 Paly also Gives you +1 Reflex and Will Base

How are natural immunities greater than non-dispelling item based immunities/enhancements?

L3 Pally may give you +1 Reflex and Will save but it depends on the other class/es you are leveling in as to what that means for you. That might be good or it might not make that much of a difference.

bobbryan2
03-26-2008, 02:22 PM
what about deepwood snipers that want to add divine sacrifice to that shot? So they have a x5 crit on their next manyshot? (assuming that divine sacrifice stacks with sniper shot and works with ranged weaponry)

WeaselKing
03-26-2008, 02:25 PM
Is there a greenstell item/weapon with LOH clickies? I'm pretty sure there isn't and that would be enough to sell me on another level of Pally especially for a warforged build, IMHO.

Yaga_Nub
03-26-2008, 02:26 PM
what about deepwood snipers that want to add divine sacrifice to that shot? So they have a x5 crit on their next manyshot? (assuming that divine sacrifice stacks with sniper shot and works with ranged weaponry)

Well that's a mod 7 discussion. :) I'm talking about today.

But that's a great pick up there. That definitely has some promise except they are both clicky enhancements and don't think they will have compatible timers.

Gratch
03-26-2008, 02:33 PM
Heh... I'm thinking of Paly 4 on my current rogue+pal+fighter umd toon. Why... because my +6 charisma skills green steel item comes with 300 spell points. I could cast virtue over and over and over and over... ooh... enough to use that stupid L4 enhancement that takes 10 hp per use. :)

Given my multiclass toon is very much a 5 items bumping stats build, I'm out of equipment locations... built-in immunities are better. Wisdom's my only dump stat... and the only one you can get +6'd by green steel. Stupid green steel equipment... only great for casters.

If you think your reflex save is good, go run down von5 elite (L10) initial West part or the N spinning blades. I think they were reflex dc 45. Too bad it's getting reduced for all the whiners in Mod 7.

wiglin
03-26-2008, 02:39 PM
When I splash paladin it is for divine grace. I am not going to splash a level of anything when a cheap potion will do the same thing.

Yaga_Nub
03-26-2008, 03:02 PM
If you think your reflex save is good, go run down von5 elite (L10) initial West part or the N spinning blades. I think they were reflex dc 45. Too bad it's getting reduced for all the whiners in Mod 7.

I laugh at those. Try some of the Vale quests on elite. Those are the ones that are rough.:D

Yaga_Nub
03-26-2008, 03:05 PM
Is there a greenstell item/weapon with LOH clickies? I'm pretty sure there isn't and that would be enough to sell me on another level of Pally especially for a warforged build, IMHO.

So your two LoH for a WF are for???? Unless you're a pally/sorc MC or you're a pure WF pally then those two LoH aren't really doing much for you and that's coming from someone that has a WF 12 F/3 Pally with 18 CHA. It's just not enough of a difference during combat. If you mean it as a way to pop up a squishie that's laying there incapped then I agree it's a great thing to have.

Impaqt
03-26-2008, 04:11 PM
How are natural immunities greater than non-dispelling item based immunities/enhancements?

L3 Pally may give you +1 Reflex and Will save but it depends on the other class/es you are leveling in as to what that means for you. That might be good or it might not make that much of a difference.

Items Get Broken now.

Natrual Imunities Never get accidentally pulledoff your Hotbar

We have a Fixed number of Item slots on our characters. No One weapon can be ideal of every mob and situation we face.

THe second part of your response seems to indicate you do think sometmes l3 paly is worth is...

Why no response about playing Warforged?

Yaga_Nub
03-26-2008, 05:28 PM
Items Get Broken now.

Natrual Imunities Never get accidentally pulledoff your Hotbar

We have a Fixed number of Item slots on our characters. No One weapon can be ideal of every mob and situation we face.

THe second part of your response seems to indicate you do think sometmes l3 paly is worth is...

Why no response about playing Warforged?

I don't ever knock WF, especially since I have 4 of them. :)

To me there is also a difference. One is because of what you are born (made) with and one is a class choice. Yes I know you are choosing to be a WF as well but I am talking about the class of paladin not any races.

Impaqt
03-26-2008, 05:32 PM
I don't ever knock WF, especially since I have 4 of them. :)

To me there is also a difference. One is because of what you are born (made) with and one is a class choice. Yes I know you are choosing to be a WF as well but I am talking about the class of paladin not any races.

Yes, but your Reasoning is becaus eyou can get an Item, You shoudltn take L3 Paladin....

With this Shroud Item and a Pair of Velah Boots why would I want to play a WarForged over a Dwarf?

My Point is.... "Dont Ever" is a rediculous Statement to make. Even you said in your last response to me that it "Might be good".

Yaga_Nub
03-26-2008, 06:18 PM
Yes, but your Reasoning is becaus eyou can get an Item, You shoudltn take L3 Paladin....

With this Shroud Item and a Pair of Velah Boots why would I want to play a WarForged over a Dwarf?

My Point is.... "Dont Ever" is a rediculous Statement to make. Even you said in your last response to me that it "Might be good".

"Don't ever" is just to start the discussion however I do like that it gets people fiesty.

Byzantian
03-28-2008, 09:52 AM
If it is a +1 to saves or a total of +2ac, everything counts in ddo.

IgorUnchained
04-03-2008, 01:53 PM
I like the logic, but what is the earliest any of you have made a greensteel item? I only have one level 16 toon (who has never done the Shroud)....but Im glad I didnt wait until those high levels to get what I got at level 3. Grinding for what you can get by taking a level...not my style.

Gunga
04-03-2008, 02:01 PM
If I'm multiclassing and wind up needing an odd level of a class, the third level of pali usually makes the most sense, but I would'nt go 3 as if the build wouldn't work otherwise.

bigj1608
04-07-2008, 10:15 AM
pally 3 also, in addition to the +1 aura save bonus, you gain another +1 to all saves from level progression, so pally 3 is well worth it.. and as mad said, fear/disease immunity is a nice equip saver.. can't roll a 1 when you're immune

Inspire
04-24-2008, 01:47 AM
Well If You Think That Your Gonna Be Wearing That Item And Taking Up A Slot Until Lvl 20... All The Best To You. Personally, Id Prefer Always Having Said Immunities As Opposed To An Item (AKA; What If Something Better Comes Out In That Particular Item Slot), And So Forth... Saves A Item Slot, And The +1 Saves +1 Ac Not To Mention An Extra 80 Point Loh Will Come In Useful. The Difference Between Rolling A One On A Save Or An Extra Ac Can Mean A World Of Difference In The Long Run... And Thats What Im Here For "The Long Run" :D

Ill Never Take Just 2 Lvl's Of Paladin On Any Toon I Multi-Class, 3 Benifits Are Much Better Than A Flavor Of The Month Goggle Slot.
I Agree, Much Too Broad A Statement.

Now There May Be Some Good In This, You Can Take 3 Lvls of Paladin And Perhaps Take The 2nd OR First Upgrade Without Wasting Your 3 Paladin Lvls And Get Something Like The Corrosive Salt Guard That Has No Save And Does Unstoppable Untyped Damage (80d6 Over 4-5 Seconds) If I Remember Correctly, Cause Honestly Blindness And Poison Immunities Are A Joke If You Have High Saves Anyways (My Batman and Rogue Fail On A 1/3 Respectivly Against Devil Chills/Poison) Heck If Your Gonna Go Negative Whynot Take The Exceptional Fort Saves?

/Shrug... Just My Oppinion But Ill Keep Splashing 3 Paladin.