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shoebox747
03-21-2008, 02:08 PM
Im sure this has been brought up before but i want to talk about the ac matter for the rangers or rogues for that matter. I have read Borr0's post on ac and i agree for it but what about the people who have 30-40 ac atm does that mean were screwed. Most of this problem comes from rangers and rogues who are dex based builds ( i know there are a few expectional builds out their but im talking to the general amount) there has to be someway to boost our defensive qualities with out loseing everything. I have a ranger and he is all about 2 handed fighting becasue if i wanna get out of the action i have to go bow and we have all had thoes debates. Is their going to be a way in mod 7 to let people with dex based builds who have a high reflex save to increase their ac. I know dex goes into making the ac higher and the reflex higher but im talking about cuting the reflex save in half and adding it to the ac becasue that would boost my ac up to 51 where i would be hit a lot less. Of corse im not full understanding everything in this area of the game but it would certiently help most dex builds out

Gadget2775
03-21-2008, 02:19 PM
Sure there is. It's called multiclassing. Formula is something like this....

Take 1 level of Monk (for the Wisdom bonus to AC)
Add 6 levels of dex built Ranger
Insert Tempest Enhancement
Add 9 levels of dex built Ranger
Put on dress and AC bracers

Alternately, season with 2-3 levels of Paladin or Fighter

Emili
03-21-2008, 02:34 PM
My ranger sits at 48 ac buffed with a shield on - not great because i do not have a lot of loot on her to do it but I do know quite a few rangers who breach 50 and even reach higher... I know quite a few who can double as tanks if they had to. The thing about ac is while some is thru enhancement and feat most the basics of it are item dependent.

BlueLightBandit
03-21-2008, 03:35 PM
Screwed? Not hardly. But as a player in DDO you're mantra is either "kill it before it kills you" or "can someone take me to a shrine?"

Xithos
03-21-2008, 04:07 PM
Sure there is. It's called multiclassing. Formula is something like this....

Take 1 level of Monk (for the Wisdom bonus to AC)
Add 6 levels of dex built Ranger
Insert Tempest Enhancement
Add 9 levels of dex built Ranger
Put on dress and AC bracers

Alternately, season with 2-3 levels of Paladin or Fighter

You know, I looked all over that dang character creation screen and I still cannot figure out where that "Monk" thing your talking about is :D Seriously though, the above formula will certainly be viable in a couple months. Below is an alternatively expensive but currently somewhat viable exercise in baking an AC ranger:

-Roll that dough around a Dwarf (surprise, surprise)
-Give said Dwarven Ranger 12 levels of Ranger for Full Barkskin (Fighter splash will be nice here for feats but whatever)
-Start him with an Int of maybe 12 and eat a +1 Int Tome and pick up the combat expertise feat
-Start him with a Dexterity around 16 and acquire a +6 Dex Item off the AH; Invest in AP to get Ranger's Dex II
-Grab about 2 levels of Dwarven Armor Mastery (could go higher and fool with Dex, but going to get REALLY AP expensive)
-Grab a Daggertooth Belt off the AH (Most have abandoned AC at this point, not unrealistic to see them on AH)
-Wear a +5 Protection item somewhere (see above comment on Daggertooth belt)
Acquire +5 Mithral Fullplate for those times when you dont care as much about evasion (you can self-resist after all and your reflex save is uber because of the above. Also, going to want a +5 mithral breastplate or Kundarak Delving Suit for times when evasion is more valuable than a few AC points)
-Acquire a +5 Shield for max AC or if you picked up the feats for Tempest (Dodge is one of them) get good at alternating between using a shield clicky and then engaging CE right after it (annoying, but until UMD folks can craft a scroll or wand with a higher level shield spell its the best you can do)
-Run Xorian Cypher a few times (hopefully) to pick up a chaosgarde (+2 Dodge Bonus to AC) for your bracer slot.
-Slay the Warforged Titan religiously until you can pick up a Chattering Ring (+3 Dodge Bonus to AC)

Issues with above: Going to take some time most likely to get the stuff above. The chattering part is the longest shot of them all, and a lot of your gear slots are occupied with AC items that give smaller or marginal AC benefits. As for the OPs current situation, an AC in between 30 and 40 is going to be problematic especially if coupled with low hitpoints. The only advice I have for that is become best friends with the arcanes in your group and get blur/displacement and stoneskin (assuming you are not a high UMD character). Make sure to be adept at mobile fighting to make mobs miss a few times through collision detection and go max DPS (rage/haste clicky or spell, high damage weaponry, etc.) to drop things before they can drop you. A paralyzer might work out for you on some difficulties and those seem to be all over the place now.

A final alternative: Reroll as a Barbarian (You will be overpowered and almost no one will care what your AC is :D

Invalid_86
03-21-2008, 05:17 PM
Your problem isn't AC, it's how BaB and multiple attacks are done.

shoebox747
03-21-2008, 05:46 PM
what about the people around 38 ac already what are they sopose to do rebuild their chars

Gadget2775
03-21-2008, 06:20 PM
what about the people around 38 ac already what are they sopose to do rebuild their chars

Not to be rude...But you were aware at character creation that the Classes you're referring to are restricted to light armor right?

That being said, yes. If you want a higher AC and can't hit it with the character you've build, rebuild it. Feats and enhancements (both class and racial) make a world of difference in DDO. All you have to do is figure out how to take advantage of it. And for goodness sake, don't be upset if your light/no armor wearing Two-Handed/Two-Weapon character isn't able to hit the mid 50's or low 60's. If that sort of AC is what you want make a Sword and Board. Accept that no character/class can do/be everything.

Snoggy
03-21-2008, 06:23 PM
what about the people around 38 ac already what are they sopose to do rebuild their chars

No. But what kind of toons are these at 38 AC? Are they melee toons? Or non-melee toons? You can tweak your build. You can switch up some gear. I mean there's options still so you don't have to reroll.

boldarblood
03-21-2008, 06:28 PM
Im sure this has been brought up before but i want to talk about the ac matter for the rangers or rogues for that matter. I have read Borr0's post on ac and i agree for it but what about the people who have 30-40 ac atm does that mean were screwed. Most of this problem comes from rangers and rogues who are dex based builds ( i know there are a few expectional builds out their but im talking to the general amount) there has to be someway to boost our defensive qualities with out loseing everything. I have a ranger and he is all about 2 handed fighting becasue if i wanna get out of the action i have to go bow and we have all had thoes debates. Is their going to be a way in mod 7 to let people with dex based builds who have a high reflex save to increase their ac. I know dex goes into making the ac higher and the reflex higher but im talking about cuting the reflex save in half and adding it to the ac becasue that would boost my ac up to 51 where i would be hit a lot less. Of corse im not full understanding everything in this area of the game but it would certiently help most dex builds out

Don't worry about your AC, if your not in the upper echelon of AC then damage mitigation is more important. Things like resists, blur, displacements, stoneskin, etc. Your reflex is more important than your AC imho if your not going for an AC build.

Draclaud
03-21-2008, 06:30 PM
Depending on the damage output 38 Ac my be fine. If you are a Str based dwarven Tempest, then yah you can get away with a 38 AC just like a barbarian can get away with a 14 AC. It's a ratio of DPS/AC. The Lower your DPS the higher your AC needs to be, and the higher your DPS the lower AC you can justify.

Snoggy
03-21-2008, 07:21 PM
It's a ratio of DPS/AC. The Lower your DPS the higher your AC needs to be, and the higher your DPS the lower AC you can justify.

Daaaaaaaaaaaaamn!

Sorry, it's just wow. That is an amazing way of putting it. I seriously wish more people took that concept to heart. Because it really does sum it up in a much more effective manner for people reading these forums.

Too often posts on this topic (or its related topics) use absolutes and extremes. X is useless. Y is king. Z is gimp.

I applaud you. Seriously. I love the way you phrased that. No extremes at all. No absolutes. You just sum up what is going on and how the tradeoff works. There can be issues and problems with how the tradeoff isn't paying off as much as it could or should. And that would make for hopefully a wonderful discussion (or at least more constructive than usual). Because with your statement, it's no longer about extremes. It's just about the real heart of the matter and what really needs to be looked at concerning problems or perceived problems.

Also your statement lets new players or players who don't spend a lot of time on the forums really get a handle on the topic. So someone who wants to know if their 38 AC toon needs to be "rerolled" or "rebuilt" now has some standard by which to measure their character instead of just being told it's useless.

Sorry to gush. It's just I've read so many of these threads. And bam, I think you nailed the crux of the entire topic in one sentence. Everything else that needs to be said about the topic can just grow out of your statement there. Thank you so much.

Invalid_86
03-21-2008, 09:11 PM
Daaaaaaaaaaaaamn!

Sorry, it's just wow. That is an amazing way of putting it. I seriously wish more people took that concept to heart. Because it really does sum it up in a much more effective manner for people reading these forums.



It is a great line.

The problem being that the ramping up in dps does not meet the one with AC. DPS is pretty smooth, wherein AC has a huge "useless" gap. So they don't really match up. Thus all the threads that keep popping up about it.

As he mentioned one character should be able to get away with a 14 AC if they do huge DPS, another character might need a 38AC if they do a bit less damage to be competitive. The problem is in DDO at upper levels a 14 and a 38 AC are essentially the same, and will remain that way until BaB gets fixed for mobs.

Hvymetal
03-22-2008, 06:09 AM
Well there sort of is, but you're not going to like it. My Warforged Rogue, Tactile without his Prot Item on (It's a cloak and honestly have Resist cloak on more often) using Two-Weapons without CE turned on (yes he has CE, I dunno sometimes I dream about getting his AC to a more usefull level I guess :D) sits at about 28 AC. That's really low, pretty much useless low yet I don't die often on vale quests, regardless of difficulty.

Aggro manegement, fearsome necklace, try and make sure I am blurred or displaced (I am a Rogue so I usually try and Displace myself off a scroll, but ask others), kill the mobs before they can kill you and some self-healing. (edit: also a hvy fort item, it is imperitive to have fortification!!!!!)

There are other ways of protecting a low-AC build and still surviving without trying to boost AC and still melee. He was built for melee.