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View Full Version : Heals - Max possible - SP/SD bug??



Spock2
03-17-2008, 03:47 PM
Hello!

Over the last 2 weeks 3 clerics from our guild have been working out max possible heal that you can hit someone with, and what affects heals. Here is what we learned so far, plus a few questions that maybe someone here can answer.

(Please forgive me if this is a long post, or if it has been talked about before. I did search :p)

This has been taken and cut up from my Guild's fourms.

The three clerics are as follows:

Santena Drow Cleric/Fighter (Fleric!!) 14/2
Ambr Drow Cleric 16
Yoney Dwarven Cleric 14

Santena and Ambr both have the same equipment, nearly the same feats and enhancements, just Santena has a few fighter feats, etc. This was started due to the fact that on Healing before I made some major changes to Santena my heals were less than 1/2's Ambrs, and in the new raid I really wasted a lot on pots and scrolls.

Here is what the Heal spell's normal max is.

10 HP per level to a max level of 15. So 10 X 15 = 150 (Yes, there will be math in this post)

This was confirmed my Ambr, her max with no equipment, feats or enhancements will give you 150. Santena and Yoney both get 140 do to their caster levels.

Now here is where it gets intresting:

10 HP per level of caster up to level 15. Max 150
Cleric Life magic add 40%
Empowered Healing add 50%
Superior Potency or Superior Devotion adds another 50%


So here is what I believe should be correct:

Santena:
10x14=140x1.4=196x1.5=294x1.5=441

Ambr:
10x15=150x1.4=210x1.5=315x1.5=473

Yoney:
10x14=140x1.3=183x1.5=276x1.5=412

However this is not correct.

Santena gets 399, Ambr gets 427 and Yoney is getting 378.


After a lot of work this is what we see...

SP/SD is not giving us our 50%!
With just my enchancements and SP I was getting 266, but if you look at the formula it should be...

10x14=140x1.4=196x1.5=294

So I tried just my enhancements and got 196...The formula works out here.

10x14=140x1.4=196

Then just SP and no enhancements and got 186.

10x14=140x1.5=210.

BINGO! Here is the problem. Either SP/SD is bugged, or I fail at math. :D

So I went back to my formula knowing that SP/SD was not giving me 50% and tried to work out what I was getting from it and found that it was giving me about 35-37%... See below:

Santena:

14x10=140*1.4=196*1.35=265*1.5=397

Ambr:

15x10=150*1.4=210*1.35=284*1.5=426

Yoney:

14X10=140*1.3=183*1.35=247*1.5=371

Ok for the people still reading, yes, I am off a few here, but I am close. ;) And yes we did try SD 6 to see if it made a difference, and no it does not.

What I am looking for is two fold.

1) Where am I making a mistake in my formula?

2) What is your max (normal) heals?

And maybe later we can work out the max crit possible for heals :eek: (Santena 1097, Ambr 1175 on non humans)

Strykersz
03-17-2008, 03:53 PM
The correct formula is Original Value(140 or 150)*(Item+enhancement mod(1.9 max))*feat mod(1.5 on empower healing).

edit: As a sanity check I did Santena's calc under this equation. 140*1.9=266*1.5=399 Looks right.

Westerner
03-17-2008, 03:53 PM
I believe Healing bonuses stack, but do not multiply... they add.

e.g. +40% faith +50% devotion item = +90%. Not 1.4 x 1.5.

I think that makes the math work out...

EDIT:
can you confirm Empower Heal does multiply?

Strykersz
03-17-2008, 04:02 PM
EDIT: can you confirm Empower Heal does multiply?

The math works out for all 3 if you multiply Empower Healing, so it seems confirmed. I believe for a non static heal amount you add the feats together but I'm not certain of that one(e.g. cure critical with empower, max, emp heal on).

Impaqt
03-17-2008, 04:05 PM
The Formula is

BASE
+ Enhancments (Enhancmentline Plus Potency/Devotion Item)
+ Empower Healing (If applicable)

The Calculation is Fine.

Spock2
03-17-2008, 04:05 PM
The correct formula is Original Value(140 or 150)*(Item+enhancement mod(1.9 max))*feat mod(1.5 on empower healing).

edit: As a sanity check I did Santena's calc under this equation. 140*1.9=266*1.5=399 Looks right.


Is that how it works out? Slap me and call me silly! :D Man oh man, you would not believe the work we put into this trying to see where we went wrong.

Thank you very much!

Pellegro
03-17-2008, 04:35 PM
So uh, I'm leery to ask because I don't want it to be "fixed" if in fact its a bug but ...

I know a human cleric, level 16.

He has Sup Pot VI wand.

He has those gloves from the reaver that give you Superior Healing Lore.

He has the enhancments maxxed for both % per heal, and increased crits.

He only has +1 Wis tome, and +5 Wis item, so I think his Wis comes to 32 (18+4lvls+5item+1tome+4enhancements).

Here's the goocher. When his mass cure light crits, it will heal up to 315 HPs.

His mass cure mods seem to do less so I'm pretty sure its a bug but maybe not.

Can anyone show me the #s?

Strykersz
03-17-2008, 04:46 PM
Does he have empower and maximize?

(8+16)*1.9*3(empowered, maximized, empower healin'd;1+.5+1+.5)*2.5=342

Spock2
03-17-2008, 04:51 PM
Does he have empower and maximize?

(8+16)*1.9*3(empowered, maximized, empower healing'd;1+.5+1+.5)*2.5=342

edit: Cure light is capped at +5 so the above calc is busted. Give me a second to rework it.

Are you sure that maximized works on heals? I had Ambr try it and it had no affect on heals. however if it works on MCL and MCMs...

Does empowered stack with empowered healing? Might give that one a try...

Strykersz
03-17-2008, 04:59 PM
Are you sure that maximized works on heals? I had Ambr try it and it had no affect on heals. however if it works on MCL and MCMs...

Does empowered stack with empowered healing? Might give that one a try...

Maximize and Empower should work on non-static number heals.

Impaqt
03-17-2008, 05:07 PM
Maximize and Empower should work on non-static number heals.

HEAL is a Static Progression Spell.

May be a terminology Issue here....

CURES are indeed affected by Max/Empower

HEALS are not.

Mad_Bombardier
03-17-2008, 05:14 PM
max Heal (& crit) by level:

L14: 140 * 1.9 * 1.5 = 399 (*2.75 = 1097 crit)
L15+: 150 * 1.9 * 1.5 = 427 (*2.75 = 1175 crit)

Spock2
03-18-2008, 09:34 AM
HEAL is a Static Progression Spell.

May be a terminology Issue here....

CURES are indeed affected by Max/Empower

HEALS are not.

Ok, then would it be more SP cost effective to use maximized/empowered cure mods? I'll have to give that a look later with the clerics in my guild that have maximize.

Mad_Bombardier
03-18-2008, 10:26 AM
Ok, then would it be more SP cost effective to use maximized/empowered cure mods? I'll have to give that a look later with the clerics in my guild that have maximize.With Maximize, spells L4 and above are x2 healing for x2 cost or less.
With Empower Healing, spells L3 and above are x1.5 healing for x1.5 cost or less.
With both Max & EmpHeal, spells L4 and above are x2.5 healing for less than x2.5 cost.

So, Maximize for burst healing with mass Cures. And Empower Healing for Heal. And if you're only using L4 spells or higher then feel free to turn both metamagics on. It really is more SP efficient! :)

Spock2
03-18-2008, 11:28 AM
With Maximize, spells L4 and above are x2 healing for x2 cost or less.
With Empower Healing, spells L3 and above are x1.5 healing for x1.5 cost or less.
With both Max & EmpHeal, spells L4 and above are x2.5 healing for less than x2.5 cost.

So, Maximize for burst healing with mass Cures. And Empower Healing for Heal. And if you're only using L4 spells or higher then feel free to turn both metamagics on. It really is more SP efficient! :)

Sweet!! I will pass this along to the other clerics in my guild. :p

Alcamez
03-18-2008, 11:54 AM
Your cleric's also might be healing some humans that have the enhancements for good healing which will change the end value of your calculations. I have also noticed that when I go to the taverns to test my healing abilities with maximize, empower, the reaver gloves, potency six item, that it really better to use the cure light mass, and cure mod mass and keeping the group close in intense fighting encounters. Pick up the slack on the clothies with heal scrolls ie always keep the potency item in the off hand just a thought. Thats only if you built a caster type cleric if you have the typical battle cleric slip on the madstone boots and have fun. Finally got my pair whoo hooo. Maybe they should take away your mana bar when you activate them so everyone knows your in tank mode. Or when your quelled. Just a thought.