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View Full Version : The Rise of Crafting and The End of Named Items?



totmacher
03-12-2008, 10:59 PM
This is not a DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMM post.

Ok, maybe it is, a little bit.

I'm just wondering, with the advent of raid crafting and no new named items in Mod 6, will we ever see below items like the overpowered Rattle Charm from raids? What about the epic Goggles of Perception? I really could use another Ventilated Bracers...

Oh and tomes? Are those still on the table or are they capping out at +3 from Reaver/Abbot?

*plays a violin while his Docent of Grace sails out to sea*

sirgog
03-12-2008, 11:17 PM
This is not a DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMM post.

Ok, maybe it is, a little bit.

I'm just wondering, with the advent of raid crafting and no new named items in Mod 6, will we ever see below items like the overpowered Rattle Charm from raids? What about the epic Goggles of Perception? I really could use another Ventilated Bracers...

Oh and tomes? Are those still on the table or are they capping out at +3 from Reaver/Abbot?

*plays a violin while his Docent of Grace sails out to sea*


I assume +3 tomes will eventually drop unbound from the very highest level quests (talking level 20 quests on elite here). As for +3, +4 and +5 bound ones, I expect we will start to see them again in the Mod 7 raid (+3 at least, +4 may be held to the next level cap increase, and +5 will probably not be available till the cap is 20.

Personally, I think they should add +4 tomes to the Abbot's loot list, at a reasonable drop rate, but on elite only. Watch all the powergamer types start feeding themselves to the Abbot then :D

As far as named items go, the lack of them in Mod 6 wasn't recieved too well, I think Turbine have learned from that.

Hambo
03-13-2008, 12:40 AM
This is not a DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMM post.

Ok, maybe it is, a little bit.

I'm just wondering, with the advent of raid crafting and no new named items in Mod 6, will we ever see below items like the overpowered Rattle Charm from raids? What about the epic Goggles of Perception? I really could use another Ventilated Bracers...

Oh and tomes? Are those still on the table or are they capping out at +3 from Reaver/Abbot?

*plays a violin while his Docent of Grace sails out to sea*

It won't be a "DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMM post" until they introduce tome crafting. :D

Snoggy
03-13-2008, 02:55 AM
I assume +3 tomes will eventually drop unbound from the very highest level quests (talking level 20 quests on elite here). As for +3, +4 and +5 bound ones, I expect we will start to see them again in the Mod 7 raid (+3 at least, +4 may be held to the next level cap increase, and +5 will probably not be available till the cap is 20.

Personally, I think they should add +4 tomes to the Abbot's loot list, at a reasonable drop rate, but on elite only. Watch all the powergamer types start feeding themselves to the Abbot then :D

As far as named items go, the lack of them in Mod 6 wasn't recieved too well, I think Turbine have learned from that.

I dunno. I think +5 tomes would mudflate the game a bit too much. I think anything past +3 is really pushing it in terms of gameplay. Just my opinion though.

To the OP: Named Raid loot is most likely not dead. The devs know people like named items. So I predict there will be future content released with new named items. Because it's just plain fun and we all know that it is indeed fun.

Crafting's fun too. And there's a place for both in DDO.

sirgog
03-13-2008, 03:16 AM
I dunno. I think +5 tomes would mudflate the game a bit too much. I think anything past +3 is really pushing it in terms of gameplay. Just my opinion though.

To the OP: Named Raid loot is most likely not dead. The devs know people like named items. So I predict there will be future content released with new named items. Because it's just plain fun and we all know that it is indeed fun.

Crafting's fun too. And there's a place for both in DDO.


+5 tomes are a staple of pen and paper D&D. By level 18-19 PCs usually are looking at acquiring their first, and by level 20 (or maybe 21) they'll typically have eaten a +5 Con tome as well as a +5 tome of whatever is the most important stat to their character. The one group I DMed to that level had (unless, like the halfling rogue, they had tied their wealth up elsewhere). Some also had other small inherent bonuses from quest rewards or effects.

This party had pretty standard wealth (according to the DMG) for their levels. They got a tad ahead when they were in the low teens, after they killed a foe I'd thought would escape, but a couple levels later they were closer to normal.

Snoggy
03-13-2008, 03:34 AM
+5 tomes are a staple of pen and paper D&D.

Of which ruleset? And aren't those rules about to change again very soon?

And PNP games don't deal with mudflation in the same way MMORPGs have to. And like I said, it's my opinion.

insania2016
03-13-2008, 12:46 PM
The search for named items is enough of a grind. The crafting multiplies it by at least 100... :p

Invalid_86
03-13-2008, 10:59 PM
+5 tomes are a staple of pen and paper D&D. By level 18-19 PCs usually are looking at acquiring their first, and by level 20 (or maybe 21) they'll typically have eaten a +5 Con tome as well as a +5 tome of whatever is the most important stat to their character. The one group I DMed to that level had (unless, like the halfling rogue, they had tied their wealth up elsewhere). Some also had other small inherent bonuses from quest rewards or effects.

This party had pretty standard wealth (according to the DMG) for their levels. They got a tad ahead when they were in the low teens, after they killed a foe I'd thought would escape, but a couple levels later they were closer to normal.


Did you add in the cost of those +5 tomes when figuring out their total wealth? A +5 tome would be about equal to a quarter of the total wealth that a 19th level character should have. That's a huge chunk of change!

Impaqt
03-13-2008, 11:05 PM
Of which ruleset? And aren't those rules about to change again very soon?

And PNP games don't deal with mudflation in the same way MMORPGs have to. And like I said, it's my opinion.

3.5

You know, the Ruleset DDO is based on.

I fail to see how +1 more of anything would imbalance the game... Do you expect the l18-22 Mobs to be reduced in power compared to where we are now?

Invalid_86
03-13-2008, 11:13 PM
Remember too that if DDO does not trade up to the 4.0 rules then any discussion that uses them as a basis pretty much goes out the window.

Snoggy
03-13-2008, 11:17 PM
3.5

You know, the Ruleset DDO is based on.

Hmmmm. Interesting. So +5 tomes are a staple of 3.5? Or a staple or your 3.5 campaigns? I'm a little fuzzy on that point.


I fail to see how +1 more of anything would imbalance the game...

+1? Your math is losing me right now. I thought we were takling about +5 tomes? Aren't they +2 more of something? As far as game imbalance goes ... I dunno how to explain mudflation all that well, but I know it when I see it.


Do you expect the l18-22 Mobs to be reduced in power compared to where we are now?

I'm again confused by the numbers here. CR 18 to CR 22 mobs? That probably would be a pretty big reduction in power compared to where we are now wouldn't it?

BlueLightBandit
03-13-2008, 11:29 PM
What?

Every item I've crafted so far has been a named item. Instead of one randomly dropping in the chest for me, I get to create it myself.

But my Green Steel Commander Goggles are named... so I don't see the argument here...

Unless you're making the assumption that the next raid will have crafting as well... and that's a totally different conversation.

Borror0
03-14-2008, 12:54 AM
Hmmmm. Interesting. So +5 tomes are a staple of 3.5? Or a staple or your 3.5 campaigns? I'm a little fuzzy on that point.

+5 tomes are non-epic items, as a result, it's not impossible that character under level 20 owns one.



Tome of Clear Thought

This heavy book contains instruction on improving memory and logic, but entwined within the words is a powerful magical effect. If anyone reads this book, which takes a total of 48 hours over a minimum of six days, she gains an inherent bonus of from +1 to +5 (depending on the type of tome) to her Intelligence score. Once the book is read, the magic disappears from the pages and it becomes a normal book. Because the tome of clear thought provides an inherent bonus, the reader will earn extra skill points when she attains a new level.

Strong evocation (if miracle is used); CL 17th; Craft Wondrous Item, miracle or wish; Price 27,500 gp (+1), 55,000 gp (+2), 82,500 gp (+3), 110,000 gp (+4), 137,500 gp (+5); Cost 1,250 gp + 5,100 XP (+1), 2,500 gp + 10,200 XP (+2), 3,750 gp + 15,300 XP (+3), 5,000 gp + 20,400 XP (+4), 6,250 gp + 25,500 XP (+5); Weight 5 lb.

That means it's non-epic.


I'm again confused by the numbers here. CR 18 to CR 22 mobs? That probably would be a pretty big reduction in power compared to where we are now wouldn't it?

He meant mobs we'll face in level 18 to 22 dungeons...

KIELBASEE555
03-14-2008, 04:48 PM
This is not a DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMM post.

Ok, maybe it is, a little bit.

I'm just wondering, with the advent of raid crafting and no new named items in Mod 6, will we ever see below items like the overpowered Rattle Charm from raids? What about the epic Goggles of Perception? I really could use another Ventilated Bracers...

Oh and tomes? Are those still on the table or are they capping out at +3 from Reaver/Abbot?

*plays a violin while his Docent of Grace sails out to sea*

at the presant time no body has confermed that the threnial 9 set quest sword called --retrobution--! can not be remaid. can it be duplicated in the shroud or not? untill that is confermed your fears are safe for now. No body is saying about the idea of making a transmuting Flaming burst of back stabb yet either. i have seem most of the vale weapons options and I do not see anything i'm greatly intrested in. can you make a flaming burst that has fire resist and fire protection on it? Is the vale weapon/items manufacturing system intended to DRIVE the children customers away so to make the game a adaults only game???

Rog
03-14-2008, 05:04 PM
now let me craft +3 tomes and i be a happy camper and you know what that means i will sing you the happy camper song with my bard lunarsong on a moonlit night.

Erekose
03-19-2008, 10:20 AM
This is not a DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMM post.

Ok, maybe it is, a little bit.

I'm just wondering, with the advent of raid crafting and no new named items in Mod 6, will we ever see below items like the overpowered Rattle Charm from raids? What about the epic Goggles of Perception? I really could use another Ventilated Bracers...

Oh and tomes? Are those still on the table or are they capping out at +3 from Reaver/Abbot?

*plays a violin while his Docent of Grace sails out to sea*

Yeah atm all I see is legions of desperadoes lining up to farm the shroud. AT least with Litany it was bugged so you could farm it for 4 weeks and get your 5 tomes complete. Now all these High lvl players prefer to farm rather than game. It has become a bit boring. But I suppose if you prefer to create a fictional character and want it to be a representation of what you aren't in real life then "crafting" will assist those blighted and handicapped souls achieve some "form" of success albeit, that no one will notice or even care. Change the world????? I don't think you can change the real world with a lvl 16 Bard, or can u?

Getting tired of farming already.

GlassCannon
03-19-2008, 10:59 AM
The farming needs to stop...

Making ingredients drop from any and every chest would fix this, but I doubt the Devs are that crazy.;)

Largo_Kyber
03-19-2008, 11:31 AM
I dislike the new raid loot crafting. It promotes endless repetition of the same quests. The focus is now on farming the shroud. I have not played DDO in 2 weeks because the thought of farming this quest 100+ times to get my large ingredients makes me ill.

I like the fact that loot is random. I have the same chance as anyone when opening a chest to get named or rare loot. With the Shroud, it marks the begining of a "crafting" system that gives rewards not by randomness but by repetition. I do see that the raid loot crafting has value and I understand the need to give us something to do while they work on the next mod, I just personally hope that future "crafting" will not always be about collecting 25 of something. Put some some extremly rare crafting components into the loot tables. Make it so you have a chance of finding ingredients in other chests.