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HumanJHawkins
03-12-2008, 05:37 PM
If Fred can reach into your mind and mash it about until you somehow suddenly can cast spells twice as far, instead of being able to absorb 15 extra HP, then he should be able to make a Neutral Good person a little more Chaotic...

There are several good arguments for this:

There appears to be a very rare, yet actual (not player error) bug that will stitch your alignment. At the very least, there are players who intended to be a certain alignment, but found to their surprise that they were not. It would be nice to help these players out. This would at least offer people a way back, without either you or the player having to admit to a mistake. :-)
It is pretty easy to accidentally make your character without setting the alignment field on the page. I know lots of people who have done this for at least one of their toons.
The game could use more plat/dragonshard sinks... I personally would pay a boat load plus a full dragonshard or two for this.
You are looking for favor rewards for the 750 and 1000 favor points... This would be a great one!
Because alignment has a relatively small effect on the game, and all alignments have their pros and cons, this would be fairly easy to implement, would make people happy, and would not be a big game alteration. I.e. It's a lightweight change.
I would be so happy, I would probably treat my children better for at least a day. So, please... Do it for the children!Thanks!

SidBadguy
03-12-2008, 05:41 PM
/signed

If I had only remembered to change the alignment pane on my rogue.

Emili
03-12-2008, 06:08 PM
I agree, and because it's a basic and not yet so precident rule of the game... alignment stray in DnD resulting in complete alignment change while not common are possible.

sirgog
03-12-2008, 07:13 PM
I agree, and because it's a basic and not yet so precident rule of the game... alignment stray in DnD resulting in complete alignment change while not common are possible.


Yeah, in pen and paper a high-level cleric can (for a significant price) cast Atonement to change your alignment to match theirs, if you are willing.

IMO this would be a nice Dragonshard sink, and certainly wouldn't be gamebreaking.

Razvan
03-13-2008, 07:29 AM
The problem with this is that it won't be balanced...it can't...some characters won't be able to change alignment, and it won't sit well with a lot of people. (pally wanting to change his alignment, or barb wanting to go lawful, etc...)

Wutinni
03-13-2008, 07:58 AM
I don't think saying preventing certain classes from changing which specifically forbid certain or all other alignments is unfair in the least. Players playing such a class should just be thankful that thier gameplay has no bearing on thier alignment, as there would be very few Paladins out there. Because most alignments only restrict weapons used (and 4 spells in the game) I don't see this as being a balance issue.

Aspenor
03-13-2008, 07:59 AM
YES PLEASE ZOMG!!!!

I WILL PAY YOU MONEY!@!!!!@!

seriously.....

Inkblack
03-13-2008, 09:29 AM
Please, please, for the love of god, implement this.

If the devs are concerned about people gaming the system to enable them to use items, then either add items to counterbalance the ones that break the system or remove the ones that do.

The biggest example I can think of is Chaosgarde. +2 dodge bonus to AC that stacks with everything. Did you make your melee without a 20 UMD and didn't make them lawful? Too bad, enemies have a 10% better chance to hit you because of that oversight...

Ink

xealot7
03-13-2008, 09:33 AM
/signed

Dariun
03-13-2008, 09:42 AM
Yeah, after 2 years my chaotic neutral dwarf cleric is feeling more kindly toward the world. He's feeling very very goodly, as a matter of fact.

This has nothing to do with the fact that there are anarchic burst dwarven axes of pure good but no anarchic burst dwarven axes of neutrality. Nothing at all.



Alternatively, please make "righteous" a +5 bonus. :)

Shyver
03-13-2008, 09:43 AM
/not signed

It would be to easy to make your character Lawful Good or Neutral Good to get access to better weapons at an earlier lvl, then around lvl 10 or so when we start dealing with the mobs using weapons that affect alignment, and our UMD is 20, to switch to True Neutral and still be able to use the pure good and True Laws without the downside of taking extra damage from some of the mobs weapons. I think there is too much room for people to milk the system if this was implemented.

dameron
03-13-2008, 12:43 PM
Bard/Paladin would be a nice combo.

Alavatar
03-13-2008, 01:45 PM
/not signed due to the specific class alignment requirements of Paladins, Barbarians, Bards, and the soon to be implemented monks. What is to stop a rogue being True Neutral or Neutral Good until a mid level, then decide to be Lawful Good for a few levels of Paladin?

HumanJHawkins
03-13-2008, 01:57 PM
/not signed due to the specific class alignment requirements of Paladins, Barbarians, Bards, and the soon to be implemented monks. What is to stop a rogue being True Neutral or Neutral Good until a mid level, then decide to be Lawful Good for a few levels of Paladin?

And this would be wrong how? This would be game-breaking how? This would hurt you how? This would upset the balance of the game how? Although I am mostly interested in correcting a mistake that I was too busy to fix while at low level, and I don't multiclass, I still think this sounds like a great argument FOR alignment respec!

In addition to the "Why is this bad?" questions, can you also say how this is different from allowing feat changes? Don't get me wrong... Alignment respec should cost something and have limits. Personally, I would be okay with losing 10% of my XP for example and droppin a level. I just don't want to have to completely reroll. My toon Bloodbath for example... He was always Chaotic! Hello... Look at his name? But for some reason the other day I tried to use an item that required Chaotic and it didn't work.

I'm pretty sure I am the victim of that rare "Alignment Changes" bug. But there is also a chance that I screwed up a year ago and never noticed. However you slice it, I intended to be Chaotic Good from the beginning and there is no way in game (with penalty or without) for me to fix this simple issue.

Dimicron
03-13-2008, 01:57 PM
/not signed due to the specific class alignment requirements of Paladins, Barbarians, Bards, and the soon to be implemented monks. What is to stop a rogue being True Neutral or Neutral Good until a mid level, then decide to be Lawful Good for a few levels of Paladin?


I'm not sure I understant what the problem here is? If you want to move from TN to LG so you can be a Paladin, fine. Just if you have a class that requires a certain alignment, you should not be able to change from it.

Maxum
03-13-2008, 02:07 PM
i dont have any toons that i would change alignment on but i have more than one friend whose alignment was changed by the game for some reason when they logged on,my barb friend got changed from chaotic good to chaotic neutral OUCH,and the gms said sorry buddy cant help ya,so ya i think it would be good for that reason alone

Razvan
03-13-2008, 02:10 PM
Bard/Paladin would be a nice combo.


how about barb/pally??

DPS + HP + SAVES (+AC too in some cases)

yummy!

Shyver
03-13-2008, 02:14 PM
how about barb/pally??

DPS + HP + SAVES (+AC too in some cases)

yummy!

Dwarven Barbarian 14/ Paladin 2...even better!!!!!!!

Breck_N'Dwall
03-13-2008, 02:17 PM
thanks for screwing up what could have been a good idea.

I think respec alignment would be ok, as long as you have no class requirements, like Paladin, Barbarian, Bard, and Monk.

The point I would add to the OP is that some folks that start the game are familiar with pen and paper have a different view of alignment. My first toon was LN. talk about useless.

Razvan
03-13-2008, 02:17 PM
These issues would already be addressed by the "Class can not be" flag, Like a requirement on a weapon. A human can not respec into dwarven toughness. or a barbarian can not be lawful.


You missunderstand...I am talking about the people that will come and complain that their friends just changed their alignment to use the Chaosguards or that nice big Greataxe that they couldn't before and that they can't make the changes they want because they're not allowed...

Do you honestly think that will not happen???

Two solutions: 1. Leave everything the way it is
2. Create that all-desired total respec option where your toon is brought back to level 1 but has all its XP


edit: HOLY super ninja that I am!!!

Amaras
03-13-2008, 02:17 PM
The problem with this is that it won't be balanced...it can't...some characters won't be able to change alignment, and it won't sit well with a lot of people. (pally wanting to change his alignment, or barb wanting to go lawful, etc...)

These issues would already be addressed by the "Class can not be" flag, Like a requirement on a weapon. A human can not respec into dwarven toughness. or a barbarian can not be lawful.

Razvan
03-13-2008, 02:18 PM
Dwarven Barbarian 14/ Paladin 2...even better!!!!!!!


Dwarven barb 12/Pally 2/rogue 2 not good enough for ya?? :)

Shyver
03-13-2008, 02:27 PM
thanks for screwing up what could have been a good idea.

I think respec alignment would be ok, as long as you have no class requirements, like Paladin, Barbarian, Bard, and Monk.

The point I would add to the OP is that some folks that start the game are familiar with pen and paper have a different view of alignment. My first toon was LN. talk about useless.

Changing alignment has a place in PnP where the characters actions have a direct impact on them personaly. Unfortunatly in an MMO video game there is no roleplaying reason why a character would need to change alignment except to draw more power from an otherwise prohibited multi-class. Or for some item that comes along later that requires a certain alignment.

Take for example the Ring of the Ancestors. 1/day raise dead usable only by good aligned characters no UMD. Well your fighter happens to be Chaotic Neutral (my favorite from PnP days) and you happen to come across the ring. Well you'd like to be able to use it in a pinch so you wander down and pick up the good alignment. A few days later you happen across some Chaosguards and think, WOW a stackable +2 dodge bonus, hmmmm but I have to be lawful. Another trip to Fred and you're now Lawful Good and able to use the ring and the bracers.

So what I'm saying is that there is no roleplaying reason built into the game that would support the need to change alignments. Instead it would be used as a tool to give people access to lawful, chaotic, pure good at an earlier level if their alignment is right and then they could change it out later once their UMD was high enough to use it without alignment restrictions. Switch alignment for whatever a new favored drop might be. Or if not properly implemented, create builds that use combinations that aren't allowed by the rule set.

I do feel bad for people that have had their alignment switched by the game due to some bug or fluke (the minority). But to the rest that just want to switch it because a different alignment would give them greater benefit or access to some item they weren't thinking about at creation (the majority) I have to say tough. There is no roleplaying or logical reason why we should be allowed to switch alignments.

Shyver
03-13-2008, 02:32 PM
Dwarven barb 12/Pally 2/rogue 2 not good enough for ya?? :)

Well I was going to suggest that one. but wasn't sure I wanted to give up critical rage 2 for the evasion. :D

Falco_Easts
03-13-2008, 05:31 PM
I agree with Shyver.
The bug that changes alignment is a shocker (Happened to me in the past) but I still see no reason for people to be able to change alignment just to use weapons/equipment they find. Makes no sense at all.

Breck_N'Dwall
03-13-2008, 05:35 PM
I wouldn't mind a respec.

I still have a toon that has all kinds of raid loot, has eaten tomes (2 of the +2's) and he is one of my first. I am attached to him, but dang if he isn't broken.

Erinyes
03-13-2008, 06:05 PM
I also agree with Shyver. Well put.

/not signed.

In the context of DDO, it would only be a tool for bypassing weapon/item restrictions. I think alignment is something that doesn't need to be adapted for an MMO setting, and trying to implement it in a way that wouldn't belittle the meaning that aligment holds in D&D would be extremely complicated I imagine. A good example is how alignment could be monitored is in NWN, where every dialogue choice can affect your alignment, as well as the actions you take at every turn. In DDO, we aren't forced to make these kinds of choices as the game is now, so an entire restructure of the game would be needed. Now if that was what we were talking about, I might be interested. Then if someone wants to change their alignment every time they loot something they can't use, they would actually have to go through the actions to justify the change. Just my two cents. :p

Of course, the next thing on the list must be asking for a race respec, right? :rolleyes:

Teech
03-13-2008, 06:06 PM
/signed

No more or less game breaking than feat respecs.
(If you're gonna take those out pls wait a week. Got 2 more feats to respec :p)

Erinyes
03-13-2008, 06:15 PM
/signed

No more or less game breaking than feat respecs.
(If you're gonna take those out pls wait a week. Got 2 more feats to respec :p)



Well, feats can be considered "training". So, you can train to learn different stuff - and therefor losing some skill in the feats you are no longer training/using. Fred is just the means to remove the time sink that would be required for it.

Changing alignment is equivilant of changing the core of your personality.

Granted, this is a computer game and not pnp where you are roleplaying your character. But to me at least, this is something that just doesn't need to be cheapened for convenience.

Invalid_86
03-13-2008, 10:54 PM
Absolutely not. No way no how. Not in DDO.

Emili
03-14-2008, 06:36 AM
Changing alignment has a place in PnP where the characters actions have a direct impact on them personaly. Unfortunatly in an MMO video game there is no roleplaying reason why a character would need to change alignment except to draw more power from an otherwise prohibited multi-class. Or for some item that comes along later that requires a certain alignment.

Take for example the Ring of the Ancestors. 1/day raise dead usable only by good aligned characters no UMD. Well your fighter happens to be Chaotic Neutral (my favorite from PnP days) and you happen to come across the ring. Well you'd like to be able to use it in a pinch so you wander down and pick up the good alignment. A few days later you happen across some Chaosguards and think, WOW a stackable +2 dodge bonus, hmmmm but I have to be lawful. Another trip to Fred and you're now Lawful Good and able to use the ring and the bracers.

So what I'm saying is that there is no roleplaying reason built into the game that would support the need to change alignments. Instead it would be used as a tool to give people access to lawful, chaotic, pure good at an earlier level if their alignment is right and then they could change it out later once their UMD was high enough to use it without alignment restrictions. Switch alignment for whatever a new favored drop might be. Or if not properly implemented, create builds that use combinations that aren't allowed by the rule set.

I do feel bad for people that have had their alignment switched by the game due to some bug or fluke (the minority). But to the rest that just want to switch it because a different alignment would give them greater benefit or access to some item they weren't thinking about at creation (the majority) I have to say tough. There is no roleplaying or logical reason why we should be allowed to switch alignments.

And this is not akin to a feat respec how? Persay... character pulls the DQ khopesh, hurrys off to fred and swaps the feat in? Or let's actually talk about umd ... as it stands why bother with alignment when people toss umd around like crazy and mimic 2 races and 2 alignments all at once? As I stated I see no problem with this... naturally those classes with an alignment restriction should be stripped from doing so but it would not hurt anything at all if it was changable to the classes where alignment does not have any restrictions.

Arianrhod
03-14-2008, 06:57 AM
how about barb/pally??

DPS + HP + SAVES (+AC too in some cases)

yummy!

Barb/Pally shouldn't be possible even with alignment respec. Barbs are supposed to lose all rage abilities if they ever become lawful, and paladins are supposed to lose all paladin abilities (becoming fighters with no bonus feats) if they ever cease to be lawful good.

Shyver
03-14-2008, 12:27 PM
And this is not akin to a feat respec how? Persay... character pulls the DQ khopesh, hurrys off to fred and swaps the feat in? Or let's actually talk about umd ... as it stands why bother with alignment when people toss umd around like crazy and mimic 2 races and 2 alignments all at once? As I stated I see no problem with this... naturally those classes with an alignment restriction should be stripped from doing so but it would not hurt anything at all if it was changable to the classes where alignment does not have any restrictions.

Changing feats and skills should be allowed in my opinion since this is a change of knowledge that makes sense to do. Alignment is a moral compass, not a learnable skill. There is nothing in the game to reflect moral choices for your character, nothing to base your changes on.

And in your example most characters would have to change alignment due to the sword being Chaotic in nature. So again it's a change of alignment for an item and less a change for roleplaying reasons. Not to mention most classes have a finite amount of feats to use. Swapping a feat for khopesh cost them a feat that could be used somewhere else. Swapping alignment to use chaosguards or the rez ring cost them nothing.

Dane_McArdy
03-14-2008, 12:38 PM
YES PLEASE ZOMG!!!!

I WILL PAY YOU MONEY!@!!!!@!

seriously.....

Sheesh, Asp, what won't you pay for? :p

HumanJHawkins
03-14-2008, 12:50 PM
<CUT>Swapping a feat for khopesh cost them a feat that could be used somewhere else. Swapping alignment to use chaosguards or the rez ring cost them nothing.

Um... The suggestion was that this SHOULD cost something. Like loss of 10% of XP, a full level, and a level appropriate dragonshard. (Which would be a full dragonshard for anyone wanting to use this for the items you mentioned.)

Also, I don't get your concern. Do you have a ton of points in UMD and you are trying to preserve your monopoly on being able to use equipment of other alignments? Why don't you want other toons to have a path (frankly a very expensive path as suggested here) to be able to correct early character creation mistakes? Or to correct a game bug that everyone knows exists, but that Turbine won't admit, resulting in players getting hosed.

Finally, what on earth makes you think this would not be used for role playing reasons? That's the main reason I started this... My toon Bloodbath is NOT Neutral Good. He is, and always has been Chaotic. I'm severely annoyed that I can't use chaotic aligned stuff. I.e. I can't play the character I created in the role I intended him to be.

Yes, I only really started paying attention to this when I was prevented from doing things he should be able to do. But that is precisely because I could play him as I intended (chaotic) at the lower levels without the game system getting in the way. But now the game is telling me I can't do certain things because I am not Chaotic, which is wrong. This is EXCATLY a role playing concern.

HumanJHawkins
03-14-2008, 12:59 PM
thanks for screwing up what could have been a good idea.

I think respec alignment would be ok, as long as you have no class requirements, like Paladin, Barbarian, Bard, and Monk.

The point I would add to the OP is that some folks that start the game are familiar with pen and paper have a different view of alignment. My first toon was LN. talk about useless.

Exactly, on all three points.

As for the race required classes: NOTE: It is a requirement that you be Lawful Good to be a Paladin, NOT just to create a Paladin. So clearly a Paladin could not use this feature at all. I guess that precludes it from being a favor reward...

Some of you are correct that some people would complain about this. Just like some people complain about a lot of things for a lot of reasons. Some people would complain if McDonalds started offering Strawberry Ice Cream. "No... I don't like strawberry ice cream. You aren't supporting your customers very well, because some of them don't like strawberry ice cream . Waaa waaa.." I can hear it now.

Thankfully, there are a few level heads at turbine that are able to tune this kind of stupidity out.

Emili
03-14-2008, 01:25 PM
Changing feats and skills should be allowed in my opinion since this is a change of knowledge that makes sense to do. Alignment is a moral compass, not a learnable skill. There is nothing in the game to reflect moral choices for your character, nothing to base your changes on.

And in your example most characters would have to change alignment due to the sword being Chaotic in nature. So again it's a change of alignment for an item and less a change for roleplaying reasons. Not to mention most classes have a finite amount of feats to use. Swapping a feat for khopesh cost them a feat that could be used somewhere else. Swapping alignment to use chaosguards or the rez ring cost them nothing.


Moral and ethical composition of a person are learned ... you are not born with morals, you are conditioned into them. They are totally learned. People switch and choose religions, People switch and choose beliefs, morals, ethics and thus ones beliefs systems are altered over time. A Learned skill is affected by aptitude however, the degrees of aptitude are directly reflected by skill use... Ethics and morals predict ones envronment yet an envronment can affect ones ethics and morals. as to youre point of Swapping alignment to use chaosguards or the rez ring cost them nothing. <- sure it does it cost them use of other items of strict chaotic or neutral alignment. Swapping alignment serves just what it does as you can only be one alignment at once - well except for those who use the broken and over-powered umd skill - in which case those people would not even consider spending anything to swap alignment because they never need to since they're any alignment and many alignment at the same time. It is quite funny when i cross a pally wielding the DQ khopesh via umd ... My first thought is that could never happen in PnP as a pally mimicing chaotic trait would be seeking attontment and stripped of abilities until done so:p Classes which require specific alignment would be restricted from swapping to an opposed alignment to begin with. Anyway, the point is you can only be one alignment at any given time... it follows DnD.

This is actually a less offesive suggestion then feat respecs... you cannot change feat in DnD, you can change alignment over course of play though. When it comes to DDO there is not any difference in alignment respec... even if it were for an underlying use of an item which was added latter... people do that because of feats added or changes to feat mechanic in game. Thus an item added to the game is no less the same scenario - your arguement is moot in my viewpoint. Since feats and enhancements are not written in stone in DDO... the more I dwell on the subject it appears to me that neither should alignment.

Deaths_ward
03-14-2008, 01:33 PM
/not signed

While I enjoy the Role Playing perspective, I can't see a justifiable reason to allow alignment respecs that doesn't have an entirely more valid counter argument. Really wanna use that Chaosgarde, or the nice True Chaos Smiter you picked up, wax on a level or 2 of rogue and get some UMD. Already Lvl 16, start petitioning for Skill respecs.

Emili
03-14-2008, 01:48 PM
/not signed

While I enjoy the Role Playing perspective, I can't see a justifiable reason to allow alignment respecs that doesn't have an entirely more valid counter argument. Really wanna use that Chaosgarde, or the nice True Chaos Smiter you picked up, wax on a level or 2 of rogue and get some UMD. Already Lvl 16, start petitioning for Skill respecs.


Personally I'd be in camp for them to fix umd... make it more DnD like - thus only one mimic at a time and abide that within class - thus a Pally mimicing True Chaos (Pally ability is not usable while the mimic)... My bard wearing Halfling CS and Dwaven bracers wielding a TL rapier of puncturing and a anarchic burst dagger of puregood all at the same time... I know i do it, I would never get away with it though in a real DnD game (it should not be).

dragonoffrost
03-14-2008, 01:50 PM
/not signed

Alignment respecs would nullify the some of the reasons for UMD. You got a skill to be able to make your alignment not matter for an item. Don't go looking for an easy button. People would be swapping alignment as often as possible if it would give them an upper hand for a set of quests. In Pen and Paper Alignement meant more than what weapons you could use. In a MMO it's the only real reason for alignment. (Don't give the me the role play excuse as role play is not forced in a MMO)

I know Rangers respec feats as mobs change going up level to achieve the same effect which I still am resisting changing favored enemy on my Level 11 ranger.

The only people I see being slighted would be those whose alignments changed after build. If you chose an alignment on build to find out it was a wrong choice. Do what I have done in such instances re-roll.

Beherit_Baphomar
03-14-2008, 01:50 PM
Sheesh, Asp, what won't you pay for? :p

He pays for alotta things, on a regular basis too.

Dariun
03-14-2008, 03:02 PM
This thread is getting a little odd. People saying there is no role playing reason for alignment changes hurt my head.

I really think the game should implement a Knights of the Old Republic style alignment system where your actions determine your alignment.

Of course, we'd all get killed by the rain of falling paladins...

Dimicron
03-14-2008, 03:27 PM
/signed

How others choose to play their characters does not affect me. Even more since there was the "change your alignment to Lawful Good at random" bug for awhile. Even better since it's another potential money sink, maybe this would cause the prices on the auction house to be a tad more reasonable (wishful thinking, I know). Not everyone out there knows to check the forums to see what static drops are what alignment. Help the newbies so we can keep a few more of them around. :)

(And yes, I am still in favor of full respecs)

Emili
03-14-2008, 03:41 PM
/not signed

Alignment respecs would nullify the some of the reasons for UMD. You got a skill to be able to make your alignment not matter for an item. Don't go looking for an easy button. People would be swapping alignment as often as possible if it would give them an upper hand for a set of quests. In Pen and Paper Alignement meant more than what weapons you could use. In a MMO it's the only real reason for alignment. (Don't give the me the role play excuse as role play is not forced in a MMO)

I know Rangers respec feats as mobs change going up level to achieve the same effect which I still am resisting changing favored enemy on my Level 11 ranger.

The only people I see being slighted would be those whose alignments changed after build. If you chose an alignment on build to find out it was a wrong choice. Do what I have done in such instances re-roll.


It was not long ago when feats could not be swapped.

It was not long ago when spells could not be swapped.

They added this ability because the game changed and keeps changing... the decisions made on many builds are due to the state of the current game and the ever changing environment of the game... a spell changes or a better spell comes along - people swap the old one, a feat changes or a better one comes along - people swap the old one.

Now then while alignemnt in this game does not reflect the main aspects of DnD pnp... there is no difference in someone changing thier alignment to a diffrent one even it the reason was for a particular new item either... it is the same exact thing as swapping feats or swapping spells. Restricting the alignment by class stays in play... a pally must remain LG, a Barb non-lawful is all thier is to it... however a swap for item is no diffrent then a spell swap or feat swap - no difference at all. it's a swap for environment change, role-playing change whatever... but you do give up something by the swap.

In the past I've had and had known plenty a sorc who've re-rolled over spells as they changed or as new ones became available, In the past I've know plenty of people who've re-rolled because of feats and skills as they changed or as new ones became available. There is no difference between changing alignment and changing feats or spells - it allows adjustment to the environment of the game without a reroll that's all thier is to it. The point being this... of all the flexibility added to the game thus so far in respec ie.) feat and spell... alignemnet would be the only one which exist both in DnD pnp and DDO had they put it in. As for UMD - like i said if they made that more DnD like it would hurt me... but I would not cry about it. It should not be what it is to begin with and should not be such an importnat aspect of a build. By all rights a Pally who umd's a TC item should be stripped of thier Pally powers until the item is taken away at the very least... by all rights my bard wearing a +5 mith CS rr halfling and +6 dex gloves rr elf should not be happening - you can only mimic one attribute at a time with umd in dnd. If they fixed it I would be perturbed but it would not tick me off either, as it would be the way it should be.

That is my viewpoint... I am for anything in DDO which brings this game closer to DnD. Not one person against this has swayed my view showing a completely good viable reason why alignment is set in stone to the non-class aligned restricted classes... frankly I could care less if a CN barb changes his alignment to CG or NG at level 16 or if a fighter goes from LG to CG or vs versa they give up thier stack of TC or TL items for a few others - is no big deal there... even if it were to wear chaos guardes or weild the DQ khopesh - is so what - does it replace umd? NO, does not at all people with umd enough can do both, and at the same time mind you. It no way diminishes the skills power to date.

Do not get me wrong here as I am more inclined to lean towards making alignment more useful then a class restriction or item restriction thing... personally when I see a pally/rogue in 3.0+ rules they walk a thin line with me as thier is nothing lawful good about a a pally sneaking up behind a monster and backstabbing it - that is an unruley, unchilvarous act, with the viewpoint - all is fair in love and war - it comes to any rule being tossed aside, thus unlawful.

This was not not my idea, or proposal, but to be fair to the OP... I concur, he's right. My only other conclusion would be this... to disallow alignment respec - by all rights would mean we should remove feat respec and non-level spell swaps, that in itself is fair arbitration as all the feat respec, spell swap respec and even enhancement swap respec serve the same purposes... it helps deter the need for reroll and takes away some grind for the cost of pp and the old non-wanted spec.

I am open to debate and can be swayed otherwise should someone point out a good credible reasoning given the current state or immediate future of the game. Possibly MT or one of the other knowledgable DnD advocates may shed more light here?

Falco_Easts
03-16-2008, 06:12 PM
This thread is getting a little odd. People saying there is no role playing reason for alignment changes hurt my head.

I really think the game should implement a Knights of the Old Republic style alignment system where your actions determine your alignment.

Of course, we'd all get killed by the rain of falling paladins...

I could agree to this, have always thought your actiosn should change alignment.